Anyone ever bend slats by only wetting the wood? If so, how well did it work? Opinions, as to wetting only, also welcome.

I have numerous ash slats to laminate for making rockers. Prefer not to fire up the wood stove for steam bending. Ash is air dried for ~10 years. Did one slat (defected, had a knot in it) by just soaking over night and it bent well, but had ~50% spring back when released from the clamps. Just a test, so thought to soak, for several days, the project slats and leave them clamped for at least 2, maybe 3-4 days. Slats are about 5/16" thick ~2" wide.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...posted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...posted-public/

Sonny

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 2:32:35 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
Anyone ever bend slats by only wetting the wood? If so, how well did it work? Opinions, as to wetting only, also welcome.

I have numerous ash slats to laminate for making rockers. Prefer not to fire up the wood stove for steam bending. Ash is air dried for ~10 years. Did one slat (defected, had a knot in it) by just soaking over night and it bent well, but had ~50% spring back when released from the clamps. Just a test, so thought to soak, for several days, the project slats and leave them clamped for at least 2, maybe 3-4 days. Slats are about 5/16" thick ~2" wide.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...posted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...posted-public/

Sonny

I've never bent/laminated, so correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the
glue between each strip prevent springback? I thought that was reason for
laminating strips vs bending one solid piece. No need to soak/steam.

Angle bend:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jeoJiolMLc

Double curve bend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g85DplCf8iI

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 8:05:41 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:


I've never bent/laminated, so correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the
glue between each strip prevent springback? I thought that was reason for
laminating strips vs bending one solid piece. No need to soak/steam.

Angle bend:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jeoJiolMLc

Double curve bend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g85DplCf8iI

The rocker on the left (my right), here - https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...in/photostream

has 1/8" thick laminations glued with Titebond II for the backrest arch. Both ends fail, that's one reason why this rocker was never donate. The wood was old cypress, so not sure what caused the failure. I have discovered that sometimes that old cypress doesn't bend as I would like..... it's brittle. Quite a few slats snapped or cracked when making this arch.

I think the ash will be more forgiving, not nearly as brittle, if at all. My test sample result was encouraging, but still wanted opinions. My finished rockers will be about 1.75"-2" thick and 3.5"-4" wide, fairly robust. My slats are about 5/16" thick, whereas in your first video link, his slats are 1/8" thick. Softening with water and pre-bending may/should help the bending process.... hopefully.

Sonny

On Tue, 26 May 2020 20:25:27 -0700 (PDT), Sonny
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 8:05:41 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:


I've never bent/laminated, so correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the
glue between each strip prevent springback? I thought that was reason for
laminating strips vs bending one solid piece. No need to soak/steam.

Angle bend:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jeoJiolMLc

Double curve bend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g85DplCf8iI

The rocker on the left (my right), here - https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...in/photostream

has 1/8" thick laminations glued with Titebond II for the backrest arch. Both ends fail, that's one reason why this rocker was never donate. The wood was old cypress, so not sure what caused the failure. I have discovered that sometimes that old cypress doesn't bend as I would like..... it's brittle. Quite a few slats snapped or cracked when making this arch.

I think the ash will be more forgiving, not nearly as brittle, if at all. My test sample result was encouraging, but still wanted opinions. My finished rockers will be about 1.75"-2" thick and 3.5"-4" wide, fairly robust. My slats are about 5/16" thick, whereas in your first video link, his slats are 1/8" thick. Softening with water and pre-bending may/should help the bending process.... hopefully.

Titebond creeps. You need some kind of catalyzed-cure adhesive, like
resorcinol or epoxy. I'm sure that there is much experience on what
does and does not work.

Joe Gwinn

On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 1:45:03 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:

Titebond creeps. You need some kind of catalyzed-cure adhesive, like
resorcinol or epoxy. I'm sure that there is much experience on what
does and does not work.

Joe Gwinn

With the thicker slats and larger than normal finished rockers, using epoxy may be my best bet. I often use West System's G-Flex 650 and will use the 655 for the Maloof joints of the chair structure, itself. As for WS epoxy, they have special instructions for damp wood, though I plan to pre-form the slats while wet and allow them to dry in pre-formed position, before doing the final bending and gluing to finished form. That's the plan and my confidence is further on the plus side. Thanks.

The rocker build is shaping up pretty nicely, accent on the rustic look. The chair is for my brother, but I'm starting to get an idea of keeping it myself, at least for a while, I'm liking it that much. Stay tuned for some pics hopefully in 2 weeks or so.

Sonny

Sonny

On Tue, 26 May 2020 11:32:33 -0700 (PDT), Sonny
wrote:

Anyone ever bend slats by only wetting the wood? If so, how well did it work? Opinions, as to wetting only, also welcome.

I have numerous ash slats to laminate for making rockers. Prefer not to fire up the wood stove for steam bending. Ash is air dried for ~10 years. Did one slat (defected, had a knot in it) by just soaking over night and it bent well, but had ~50% spring back when released from the clamps. Just a test, so thought to soak, for several days, the project slats and leave them clamped for at least 2, maybe 3-4 days. Slats are about 5/16" thick ~2" wide.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...posted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...posted-public/

Sonny

Having a problem understanding the sequence of work.

You cut them into strips and glued them together and then bent them?
If yes, were your careful to glue them together in the same order as
they were prior to being cut?

On the Public TV show Craftsman Legacy they had an episode titled The
Table Maker. The craftsman was making table legs bent in 3 dimensions
using cherry lumber and when he ripped the stock apart he said that
when glued back together it was important to keep the pieces in order.

On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 9:39:19 AM UTC-5, swalker wrote:


Having a problem understanding the sequence of work.

You cut them into strips and glued them together and then bent them?

No. I haven't done any gluing and bending yet. Because I cut the slats about 5/16" thick, I needed to test bend one slat to see how well that thickness bends. I soaked the slat overnight and clamped it in a curve. No cracking or breaking, but it did have about 50% springback. This amount of springback was expected, since it was soaked for just a short time.

If yes, were your careful to glue them together in the same order as
they were prior to being cut?

The slats were kept in sequential order during cutting and will be glued in sequential order. This sequential order is contrary to laminating straight (table) legs or table top board orientation, stuff as that.

The slats have been soaking in water for a few days. I will clamp them in a curved form (no glue) and allow to dry, hence pre-form the rocker curve. Once dry, then I'll epoxy them in the final permanent curved form. I am thinking I need to pre-form the curve of the slats, first, to some extent, because of 1) the thickness of the slats and 2) to accommodate the method, I plan to use, for attaching the rockers to the chair legs.

I'm not sure this second reason is applicable, but I wonder if it will lend itself to the specific way I want to attach the rockers to the legs. With most chairs, the front legs are offset (front to back) with the back legs. For rockers, the offset has to accommodate a curved "board", unlike a straight stretcher running from leg to leg. Relative to the plane of the seat, the front legs are essentially straight up and down and the back legs are angled backwards at about 7°, so the rocker attachment is a compound angle fit. You can't simply drill holes in the rocker and insert the chair legs into the holes. That insertion can't be done when the legs are at/in a compound angle orientation. Not sure I am describing this adequately, but I'll be taking pics to show how its done, or how I plan to do it.

A consideration for this rocker-to-leg attachment, is also because of the bulk/weight of the chair. The whole chair (up to now) a little heavier than I'd like, so this attachment will help with the bulk issue, I think. I can trim down some weight, here and there. I'm trying to make sure I'm not missing something, in that, in case there is a mistake with my engineering, I want to cover my bases with regard to any error. My planned leg to rocker attachment may be over kill, to counter any mistake. This is a somewhat new design and I need to make sure the whole chair, itself, is properly balanced once it's all assembled. Sometimes this balancing (and alignment) act is a hit-or-miss proposition, for me, anyway.

The chair is made of cypress, generally not an appropriate wood for chairs, so I have to bulk-up the joints and a few other parts, for sufficient durable structure. Bulk equates to weight, so I have to accept some not-so-favorable aspects. In the end, the chair is for my brother. Any excess weight or inconvenience will be his problem.

Sonny

On Thu, 28 May 2020 09:50:22 -0700 (PDT), Sonny
wrote:

On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 9:39:19 AM UTC-5, swalker wrote:


Having a problem understanding the sequence of work.

You cut them into strips and glued them together and then bent them?

No. I haven't done any gluing and bending yet. Because I cut the slats about 5/16" thick, I needed to test bend one slat to see how well that thickness bends. I soaked the slat overnight and clamped it in a curve. No cracking or breaking, but it did have about 50% springback. This amount of springback was expected, since it was soaked for just a short time.

If yes, were your careful to glue them together in the same order as
they were prior to being cut?

The slats were kept in sequential order during cutting and will be glued in sequential order. This sequential order is contrary to laminating straight (table) legs or table top board orientation, stuff as that.

The slats have been soaking in water for a few days. I will clamp them in a curved form (no glue) and allow to dry, hence pre-form the rocker curve. Once dry, then I'll epoxy them in the final permanent curved form. I am thinking I need to pre-form the curve of the slats, first, to some extent, because of 1) the thickness of the slats and 2) to accommodate the method, I plan to use, for attaching the rockers to the chair legs.

I'm not sure this second reason is applicable, but I wonder if it will lend itself to the specific way I want to attach the rockers to the legs. With most chairs, the front legs are offset (front to back) with the back legs. For rockers, the offset has to accommodate a curved "board", unlike a straight stretcher running from leg to leg. Relative to the plane of the seat, the front legs are essentially straight up and down and the back legs are angled backwards at about 7°, so the rocker attachment is a compound angle fit. You can't simply drill holes in the rocker and insert the chair legs into the holes. That insertion can't be done when the legs are at/in a compound angle orientation. Not sure I am describing this adequately, but I'll be taking pics to show how its done, or how I plan to do it.

A consideration for this rocker-to-leg attachment, is also because of the bulk/weight of the chair. The whole chair (up to now) a little heavier than I'd like, so this attachment will help with the bulk issue, I think. I can trim down some weight, here and there. I'm trying to make sure I'm not missing something, in that, in case there is a mistake with my engineering, I want to cover my bases with regard to any error. My planned leg to rocker attachment may be over kill, to counter any mistake. This is a somewhat new design and I need to make sure the whole chair, itself, is properly balanced once it's all assembled. Sometimes this balancing (and alignment) act is a hit-or-miss proposition, for me, anyway.

The chair is made of cypress, generally not an appropriate wood for chairs, so I have to bulk-up the joints and a few other parts, for sufficient durable structure. Bulk equates to weight, so I have to accept some not-so-favorable aspects. In the end, the chair is for my brother. Any excess weight or inconvenience will be his problem.

Sonny
At least along with the lower strength of cyprus goes lower density -
so even a slightly "fatter" chair shouldn't be a WHOLE lot heavier
than oak or hickory- if you do it right - - -

On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 3:53:27 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:

At least along with the lower strength of cyprus goes lower density -
so even a slightly "fatter" chair shouldn't be a WHOLE lot heavier
than oak or hickory- if you do it right - - -

LOL, if I do it right! I calculated 3 cu ft of cypress for this rocker. Air dried cypress is 32 lbs per cu ft. It feels like 100 awkward lbs when moving it around. I've done lots of dry fits as I go, making sure parts fit nicely, properly. Each part is custom fitted to an adjacent part/parts. It's a good project, a learning project.

I bought 4 treated 2X10X8' this morning, for making the rocker forms. Been mowing grass since, before wood shop work later this evening.

Sonny

On Thu, 28 May 2020 15:29:53 -0700 (PDT), Sonny
wrote:

On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 3:53:27 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:

At least along with the lower strength of cyprus goes lower density -
so even a slightly "fatter" chair shouldn't be a WHOLE lot heavier
than oak or hickory- if you do it right - - -

LOL, if I do it right! I calculated 3 cu ft of cypress for this rocker. Air dried cypress is 32 lbs per cu ft. It feels like 100 awkward lbs when moving it around. I've done lots of dry fits as I go, making sure parts fit nicely, properly. Each part is custom fitted to an adjacent part/parts. It's a good project, a learning project.

I bought 4 treated 2X10X8' this morning, for making the rocker forms. Been mowing grass since, before wood shop work later this evening.

Sonny
Oak and hickory are 48-52 = so you can use 30% more cyprus, +/-, for
the same weight

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 1:32:35 PM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:
Anyone ever bend slats by only wetting the wood? If so, how well did it work? Opinions, as to wetting only, also welcome.

I have numerous ash slats to laminate for making rockers. Prefer not to fire up the wood stove for steam bending. Ash is air dried for ~10 years. Did one slat (defected, had a knot in it) by just soaking over night and it bent well, but had ~50% spring back when released from the clamps. Just a test, so thought to soak, for several days, the project slats and leave them clamped for at least 2, maybe 3-4 days. Slats are about 5/16" thick ~2" wide.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...posted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...posted-public/

Sonny


Having made some bent lamination rockers, and a couple of chairs for a church platform, you do not need to either wet bend, which works, heat bend or steam bend. All you need to do is make a form, being sure to cut out the mating sides to the thickness of the desired final thickness. In other words, do not just make a single cut for the desired shape in your form material, as the two sides will not mate up correctly when you get the strips between the sides. Also, just make sure your form is thicker than the width of the strips.

I used Titebond II on a couple and Urea glue on a couple of others. The urea has the advantage of having a much longer open time. That is really helpful in the warmer weather we have now. Apply a liberal amount of glue and clamp the sides of the form together, making sure to be on the lookout for any spots where the slats are not completely in contact with each other.

Let it dry 24hrs and you are in business. The only other thing is, make your slats about six inches longer than your final length. It also helps to make them a bit wider, again so you can have a clean cut when you trim to size That way any slippage or gaping will be cut off when you cut to the final length.

All the best

On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 7:07:47 AM UTC-5, Dr. Deb wrote:

Having made some bent lamination rockers, and a couple of chairs for a church platform, you do not need to either wet bend, which works, heat bend or steam bend. All you need to do is make a form, being sure to cut out the mating sides to the thickness of the desired final thickness. In other words, do not just make a single cut for the desired shape in your form material, as the two sides will not mate up correctly when you get the strips between the sides. Also, just make sure your form is thicker than the width of the strips.

Thanks Doc. Yep, with tweaking your advice here and there, I've pretty much have the rockers ready to epoxy. Ash accommodates bending, so my slats are a bit thicker than one would normally have them. I thought to pre-bend them, because of thickness, hence wetting them for the pre-bend. The pre-bend only required clamping using one half of my clamping form.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...posted-public/


Let it dry 24hrs and you are in business. The only other thing is, make your slats about six inches longer than your final length. It also helps to make them a bit wider, again so you can have a clean cut when you trim to size That way any slippage or gaping will be cut off when you cut to the final length.

Because cypress is soft, the part of the chair feet that insert into the rocker needs to be larger than that of a typical rocking chair, or at lest that's my logic. This logic is also based on the way the back feet are to be *attached to the rocker. *The back legs are angled 7°, so there will be somewhat of a compound angle for attaching the rockers to the chair legs. I won't be able to simply drop the chair legs into holes in the rockers.. I've cut for 4 sets of "laminates", 2 for each rocker unit. I'll cut tenons on the chair legs to insert into mortises in the rockers. Each laminate pair will sandwich each the left and right chair leg tenons. Here's one pair of laminates, hence one rocker. I'll take subsequent pics to show the process, if my description is not clear, and hopefully all turns out as I plan. Each finished rocker will be about 3"-4" wide, depending on how much I trim from the sides.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...posted-public/

I am thinking (preventative maintenance) I need larger than normal leg inserts (tenons), into the rockers, because cypress is not a strong wood. I want to prevent the chair legs from breaking (at some future date) at the rocker insertion or there abouts.

All the best

I'll probably need all the best. Heading out, now, do the epoxying this evening.

Sonny