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Shellac as a sealer/filler under latex paints?
I am refinishing a dresser and I have painstakingly stripped old paint,
cleaned with mineral spirits to not raise the grain and then sanded with 60, 150 and then 220 grit. So now that I have used a latex sealer and two coats of latex paint I have noticed that the grain is raised after the paint has been applied. I am thinking that since water raises grain and the paint I used is water-based. So the paint raised the grain? If this is true, what is recommended to prevent this? After sanding, should I put a coat of shellac or something like that and then prime and paint over that? Any advice would be appreciated! -- Thanks, David W. Lovell ( Intrepid ) |
Shellac as a sealer/filler under latex paints?
"David" wrote in message . .. I am refinishing a dresser and I have painstakingly stripped old paint, cleaned with mineral spirits to not raise the grain and then sanded with 60, 150 and then 220 grit. So now that I have used a latex sealer and two coats of latex paint I have noticed that the grain is raised after the paint has been applied. I am thinking that since water raises grain and the paint I used is water-based. So the paint raised the grain? Most likely If this is true, what is recommended to prevent this? After sanding, should I put a coat of shellac or something like that and then prime and paint over that? Any advice would be appreciated! You can apply the Shellac or you can lightly wet the freshly sanded surface so that the grain will raise, "lightly" sand to remove the raised grain and then apply your water based product. |
Shellac as a sealer/filler under latex paints?
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:05:22 -0700, "David"
wrote: If this is true, what is recommended to prevent this? After sanding, should I put a coat of shellac or something like that and then prime and paint over that? Any advice would be appreciated! Dewaxed shellac, like Seal Coat, works great under latex. BIN is white pigmented dewaxed shellac, and works even better under some colors and for exterior work. Barry |
Shellac as a sealer/filler under latex paints?
Dewaxed shellac is a good barrier to any remaining chemical
stripper residue. Zinnser's "Seal Coat" would be a good choice. Check the bottom of the can for the date. It doesn't last forever. I try to buy mine no older than 6 months. David David wrote: I am refinishing a dresser and I have painstakingly stripped old paint, cleaned with mineral spirits to not raise the grain and then sanded with 60, 150 and then 220 grit. So now that I have used a latex sealer and two coats of latex paint I have noticed that the grain is raised after the paint has been applied. I am thinking that since water raises grain and the paint I used is water-based. So the paint raised the grain? If this is true, what is recommended to prevent this? After sanding, should I put a coat of shellac or something like that and then prime and paint over that? Any advice would be appreciated! |
Shellac as a sealer/filler under latex paints?
Even shellac will (slightly) raise the grain, though much less than water. If
really rough, then after you sand, slightly dampen it, let dry and lightly scuff sand. Then the shellac. Or, the BIN or equivalent that Barry suggested would be even better. Just make sure you don't get a pigmented sealer that cleans up with water. GerryG On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:54:14 GMT, B a r r y wrote: On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:05:22 -0700, "David" wrote: If this is true, what is recommended to prevent this? After sanding, should I put a coat of shellac or something like that and then prime and paint over that? Any advice would be appreciated! Dewaxed shellac, like Seal Coat, works great under latex. BIN is white pigmented dewaxed shellac, and works even better under some colors and for exterior work. Barry |
Shellac as a sealer/filler under latex paints?
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:05:22 -0700, "David"
wrote: I am refinishing a dresser and I have painstakingly stripped old paint, cleaned with mineral spirits to not raise the grain and then sanded with 60, 150 and then 220 grit. So now that I have used a latex sealer and two coats of latex paint I have noticed that the grain is raised after the paint has been applied. I am thinking that since water raises grain and the paint I used is water-based. So the paint raised the grain? If this is true, what is recommended to prevent this? After sanding, should I put a coat of shellac or something like that and then prime and paint over that? Any advice would be appreciated! sand the primer |
Shellac as a sealer/filler under latex paints?
"GerryG" wrote in message ... Yeah, actually, that's probably what I would do, as it's simple. If it was really rough and needs a lot of sanding, then I'd apply another very thin coat of primer after the sanding. That would finish sealing with very little grain raising. The shellac approach would work, but be more work. What's missing is that we can't see just how bad it is. GerryG On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:35:34 -0700, wrote: On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:05:22 -0700, "David" wrote: I am refinishing a dresser and I have painstakingly stripped old paint, cleaned with mineral spirits to not raise the grain and then sanded with 60, 150 and then 220 grit. So now that I have used a latex sealer and two coats of latex paint I have noticed that the grain is raised after the paint has been applied. I am thinking that since water raises grain and the paint I used is water-based. So the paint raised the grain? If this is true, what is recommended to prevent this? After sanding, should I put a coat of shellac or something like that and then prime and paint over that? Any advice would be appreciated! sand the primer Yup, ANY primer, if you want a nice finish. Just taught my daughter about that on some S4S 1 x 12 pine she was going to use for new baseboards. She put on a coat of Orange shellac, then next day I hit a spot with some 320 just lightly by hand,enough to knock the "fuzz" off, then it was nice 'n' smooth like a baby's butt. She decided to sand the rest, then about three more coats shellac, they look real nice against the light color woodgrain panelling. -- Nahmie The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts. |
Dewaxed shellac, like Seal Coat, works great under latex. BIN is
white pigmented dewaxed shellac, and works even better under some colors and for exterior work. Barry I tried shellac sanding sealer under latex and found the latex looked ok but chipped or rubbed off easily. The surface was so smooth that adhesion was poor. Shellac over latex on the other hand is fine. Terry |
Was the shellac fresh dewaxed?
On 14 Aug 2004 21:06:36 GMT, (Tvaughan1234) wrote: Dewaxed shellac, like Seal Coat, works great under latex. BIN is white pigmented dewaxed shellac, and works even better under some colors and for exterior work. Barry I tried shellac sanding sealer under latex and found the latex looked ok but chipped or rubbed off easily. The surface was so smooth that adhesion was poor. Shellac over latex on the other hand is fine. Terry |
If you apply a latex enamel (semi-gloss/Satin) over it, I'd heartily
recommend some sanding to give the latex a tooth to grip into. On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:55:02 -0400, "Norman D. Crow" wrote: "GerryG" wrote in message .. . Yeah, actually, that's probably what I would do, as it's simple. If it was really rough and needs a lot of sanding, then I'd apply another very thin coat of primer after the sanding. That would finish sealing with very little grain raising. The shellac approach would work, but be more work. What's missing is that we can't see just how bad it is. GerryG On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:35:34 -0700, wrote: On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:05:22 -0700, "David" wrote: I am refinishing a dresser and I have painstakingly stripped old paint, cleaned with mineral spirits to not raise the grain and then sanded with 60, 150 and then 220 grit. So now that I have used a latex sealer and two coats of latex paint I have noticed that the grain is raised after the paint has been applied. I am thinking that since water raises grain and the paint I used is water-based. So the paint raised the grain? If this is true, what is recommended to prevent this? After sanding, should I put a coat of shellac or something like that and then prime and paint over that? Any advice would be appreciated! sand the primer Yup, ANY primer, if you want a nice finish. Just taught my daughter about that on some S4S 1 x 12 pine she was going to use for new baseboards. She put on a coat of Orange shellac, then next day I hit a spot with some 320 just lightly by hand,enough to knock the "fuzz" off, then it was nice 'n' smooth like a baby's butt. She decided to sand the rest, then about three more coats shellac, they look real nice against the light color woodgrain panelling. |
Was the shellac fresh dewaxed?
Not fresh, it was an old bottle of commercial mix. It seemed to harden OK. Don't know if it was dewaxed, I'm no expert on shellac. I wanted a smooth surface under the paint, and got it, but had to try something else. Would dewaxed stuff be better? How can you tell if it is? Terry |
Norman, agreed. Especially if you were building the shellac up to a surface
film (then definitely!). However, that thickness is not really needed for sealing. Typically using a 1/2# cut apply one coat, scuff sand surface to remove broken fibers now locked in place, then a 2nd coat to complete the sealing (dewaxed shellac, of course). At this point you could lightly sand, but the resulting surface is probably still pretty rough as there's little surface film built up. The same formula also works under most water base clear finishes to prevent grain raising, and a 1/2# cut of shellac will dry very-very fast. An additional benefit in that case is the shellac will cover any trace amounts of resin or oil that might give the wb finish some trouble. GerryG On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 14:36:37 GMT, wrote: If you apply a latex enamel (semi-gloss/Satin) over it, I'd heartily recommend some sanding to give the latex a tooth to grip into. On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:55:02 -0400, "Norman D. Crow" wrote: "GerryG" wrote in message . .. Yeah, actually, that's probably what I would do, as it's simple. If it was really rough and needs a lot of sanding, then I'd apply another very thin coat of primer after the sanding. That would finish sealing with very little grain raising. The shellac approach would work, but be more work. What's missing is that we can't see just how bad it is. GerryG On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:35:34 -0700, wrote: On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:05:22 -0700, "David" wrote: I am refinishing a dresser and I have painstakingly stripped old paint, cleaned with mineral spirits to not raise the grain and then sanded with 60, 150 and then 220 grit. So now that I have used a latex sealer and two coats of latex paint I have noticed that the grain is raised after the paint has been applied. I am thinking that since water raises grain and the paint I used is water-based. So the paint raised the grain? If this is true, what is recommended to prevent this? After sanding, should I put a coat of shellac or something like that and then prime and paint over that? Any advice would be appreciated! sand the primer Yup, ANY primer, if you want a nice finish. Just taught my daughter about that on some S4S 1 x 12 pine she was going to use for new baseboards. She put on a coat of Orange shellac, then next day I hit a spot with some 320 just lightly by hand,enough to knock the "fuzz" off, then it was nice 'n' smooth like a baby's butt. She decided to sand the rest, then about three more coats shellac, they look real nice against the light color woodgrain panelling. |
Use dewaxed shellac whenever you are gonna overcoat it.
Shellac with wax in it should be used only by itself. The wax will reduce water resistance and also interfere with adhesion of topcoats. David Tvaughan1234 wrote: Was the shellac fresh dewaxed? Not fresh, it was an old bottle of commercial mix. It seemed to harden OK. Don't know if it was dewaxed, I'm no expert on shellac. I wanted a smooth surface under the paint, and got it, but had to try something else. Would dewaxed stuff be better? How can you tell if it is? Terry |
Canned premixed is usually waxy except for Zinssers Seal Coat which is
dewaxed. Spray shellac is dewaxed. Fresh mixed shellac has typically 6 month shelf life after mixing. Seal Coat has atypical 3 year shelf life from date on bottom of the can. My understanding is dewaxed can be coated over waxy providing a viable barrier coat for latex. Test on scrap? On 15 Aug 2004 21:32:24 GMT, (Tvaughan1234) wrote: Was the shellac fresh dewaxed? Not fresh, it was an old bottle of commercial mix. It seemed to harden OK. Don't know if it was dewaxed, I'm no expert on shellac. I wanted a smooth surface under the paint, and got it, but had to try something else. Would dewaxed stuff be better? How can you tell if it is? Terry |
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