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Old February 3rd 20, 03:02 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Remember SawStop? They gave up the market, now it's force....

On Sun, 2 Feb 2020 10:04:11 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, February 2, 2020 at 12:32:19 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/1/2020 10:04 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, February 1, 2020 at 8:35:08 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 17:31:02 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:

On 2/1/2020 12:50 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 11:05:57 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:


A few more years and I just might look at a SawStop "like" device.

I bought my only table saw for this lifetime a decade ago. Sawstop
was twice the price. Not an option.


My thought was their patent will be expiring in just a few years.

True, in fact I think it already has. My point is that the saw
(Unisaur) is already in my basement (and it was a cost decision). They
haven't invented a table saw fairy that's going zap it into a SawStop
either.

Feed it hot dogs and see what happens. Who knows?


Feed an ordinary saw a hot dog and you get the smell of rotting meat in
the near future. It will be splattered all over, under the table.

Well maybe, hot dogs may not rot, depending on the brand you buy. ;~)


When my kids were growing up we had a running joke in the family. Whenever
we had hot dogs, someone would always exclaim "10% other!"

It was listed right there in the ingredient list. ;-)

I introduced my kids to one of my favorite things to eat when I was growing
up.

Cut a groove down the middle of the hot dog, insert pieces of cheese and
heat it in the toaster oven until the cheese melts. Maybe add a little
mustard, but never ketchup.


Stick a wire in each end and plug it into the wall outlet.

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Old February 3rd 20, 03:18 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Remember SawStop? They gave up the market, now it's force....

On Sun, 2 Feb 2020 11:28:06 -0600, Leon [email protected] wrote:

On 2/1/2020 1:50 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 11:05:57 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:


A few more years and I just might look at a SawStop "like" device.


I bought my only table saw for this lifetime a decade ago. Sawstop
was twice the price. Not an option.


And a loaded Powermatic, or a loaded Delta, or most any European brand
were not options either. I shopped all of those when shopping the
SawStop. Give or take all were within 10~15% of each other in price.
I almost went with the Euro style Laguna with the scoring blade and
sliding table but then I remembered the only reason I was upgrading was
to buy a safer saw. ;~)


Mine was the previous model, with the wheels on the front and side
(36-L31X). I bought it just as the one with the wheels on the front
came out, so it was being cleared out. I paid about $1600 for it,
which, as I said, was about half the cost of the competing SawStop.

It certainly helped me swallow the pill considering the amount of
woodworking that I was selling 7 years ago.


Sure, a lot of decisions change if you're in the business. SWMBO
would have a cow if I bought something as expensive as a SawStop, even
now. The Laguna bandsaw was enough that I wore a helmet when I
broached the subject. The lathe is next (this summer probably - going
to retire later this year) but what she doesn't know (yet) doesn't
hurt me.
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Old February 3rd 20, 05:05 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 330
Default Remember SawStop? They gave up the market, now it's force....

On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 06:22:17 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, March 29, 2003 at 7:07:25 PM UTC-6, edfan wrote:
Do you remember the SawStop - a device which sensed a change in the
resistance of the material being cut and STOPPED the blade in
milliseconds, the better to avoid injury? You recall the dramatic
demo for SawStop? They ran a hot dog into the whirling blade, the
SawStop device stopped the saw with barely a nick to the hot dog.
Think safety, think mangled fingers forever prevented, think Progress.

Even at the time, people mentioned they thought the royalties demanded
were so high and the potential liabilities so bankbreaking, there
might be trouble getting any tool manufacturer to adopt the device.
What would this lawyer do if they refused? I remember that people
wondered if the attorney who owned the patent wouldn't try to FORCE
companies to pay him by pushing for safety legislation setting
standards which, of course, no other device could meet.

Well, WATCH YOUR WALLETS - it's about to happen.

I was interested in the device, signed up at the company web site for
news. Today I got an email with an attached petition, "...we have
decided to petition the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission to
require saw manufacturers to include something like SawStop on table
saws."

First they couldn't make manufacturers pay billions to make a device
that could explode their liabilities. When that failed, they set up a
company making saws that included the device. I guess they're not
making enough money from that, now they want to FORCE companies to pay
them off.

Get real, "something LIKE SawStop" means THEM, only THEM, not anybody
LIKE them. They mean to make an end run around the free market. What
they cannot persuade us to buy, they will SQUEEZE from us by
legislative coercion.

Can you IMAGINE what adding $150 "tax" would do to those who must buy
saws at the bottom of the market? Would YOU like to pay $150 extra for
your next saw, whtever level of the market you shop in? DO you think
Uncle Sugar needs to be your nanny to the point where they know better
than YOU do what dollar value you put on your safety?

I urge you to talk to fellow woodworkers about this rising danger to
our freedom of choice. I do not like Consumer Safety being used as a
ski mask to hide a holdup.

--


Well... here we are, 17 years later


You know what that means? In another 3 years their patents start
going away.




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Old February 3rd 20, 11:18 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 11,475
Default Remember SawStop? They gave up the market, now it's force....

On 2/3/2020 5:09 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 2/3/2020 3:33 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/2/2020 9:07 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 2 Feb 2020 11:29:33 -0600, Leon [email protected] wrote:

On 2/1/2020 6:31 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 2/1/2020 12:50 PM,
wrote:
On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 11:05:57 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:


A few more years and I just might look at a SawStop "like" device.

I bought my only table saw for this lifetime a decade ago.* Sawstop
was twice the price.* Not an option.


My thought was their patent will be expiring in just a few years.

YES!* But they can renew their patent but that is another matter.* It
will be interesting how the owner of SawStop, now Festool, will address
this.

Can't renew a patent after its 20 years (from the time of application,
not patent) has run out.* It costs money to keep a patent in force
during that 20 year period but after, nope, the monopoly is over.
Whether someone wants to spend the money to clone it is another issue.


Cant they make a change and reapply?


I believe that it would have to be a substantive change, not some minor
improvement.* That would leave the original device open to all comers.
What substantive improvement would cause the original patent device to
be worthless in the marketplace?* Nothing comes readily to mind.



FWIW IIRC SawStop has made multiple patent changes in the past several
years. Remember, the developers/original owners/designers were
woodworking Patent Attorneys.
Changing and extending the patent would be right up their alley, so to
speak, I think.
  #20   Report Post  
Old February 4th 20, 04:04 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 1,921
Default Remember SawStop? They gave up the market, now it's force....

On Mon, 03 Feb 2020 00:05:58 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 06:22:17 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, March 29, 2003 at 7:07:25 PM UTC-6, edfan wrote:
Do you remember the SawStop - a device which sensed a change in the
resistance of the material being cut and STOPPED the blade in
milliseconds, the better to avoid injury? You recall the dramatic
demo for SawStop? They ran a hot dog into the whirling blade, the
SawStop device stopped the saw with barely a nick to the hot dog.
Think safety, think mangled fingers forever prevented, think Progress.

Even at the time, people mentioned they thought the royalties demanded
were so high and the potential liabilities so bankbreaking, there
might be trouble getting any tool manufacturer to adopt the device.
What would this lawyer do if they refused? I remember that people
wondered if the attorney who owned the patent wouldn't try to FORCE
companies to pay him by pushing for safety legislation setting
standards which, of course, no other device could meet.

Well, WATCH YOUR WALLETS - it's about to happen.

I was interested in the device, signed up at the company web site for
news. Today I got an email with an attached petition, "...we have
decided to petition the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission to
require saw manufacturers to include something like SawStop on table
saws."

First they couldn't make manufacturers pay billions to make a device
that could explode their liabilities. When that failed, they set up a
company making saws that included the device. I guess they're not
making enough money from that, now they want to FORCE companies to pay
them off.

Get real, "something LIKE SawStop" means THEM, only THEM, not anybody
LIKE them. They mean to make an end run around the free market. What
they cannot persuade us to buy, they will SQUEEZE from us by
legislative coercion.

Can you IMAGINE what adding $150 "tax" would do to those who must buy
saws at the bottom of the market? Would YOU like to pay $150 extra for
your next saw, whtever level of the market you shop in? DO you think
Uncle Sugar needs to be your nanny to the point where they know better
than YOU do what dollar value you put on your safety?

I urge you to talk to fellow woodworkers about this rising danger to
our freedom of choice. I do not like Consumer Safety being used as a
ski mask to hide a holdup.

--


Well... here we are, 17 years later


You know what that means? In another 3 years their patents start
going away.


No, patents run for 20 years from the date of *filing*, not from the
date of product availability. There is usually significant time
between a patent being filed and the first unit sold. Once one is
"offered for sale" (which includes marketing/advertising/demonstrating
the feature to be patented), nothing in it can be patented.


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