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Old June 12th 19, 02:46 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Constant shop vac filter clog

On 6/11/2019 10:25 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 6/11/2019 9:13 PM, John McGaw wrote:
On 6/11/2019 8:34 PM, Meanie wrote:
I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?


I just use these expensive paper bags in my Fein to collect the big stuff
and their HEPA filter to keep anything escaping (plaster dust, for
example) from blowing through and have no problem with clogging. You
don't say what sort of filtration your vac has. Maybe that is the basis
of the problem.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


How are you using the paper bag in a shop vac? I'm still using the original
paper filter that came with the vac.

I do have a dust collection system for my bigger tools but use the shop vac
for smaller hand tools and of course to clean the shop mess.


Don't know what you mean by "how". The bags in question are meant for the
vacuum in question -- see the little port in the side of the bag where the
hose feeds in. The paper is thin and has a very large surface area, doubled
over in the large canister, and the motor is very powerful so it just sucks
air through the bag's surface leaving the dross behind inside. Anything
super-fine that gets through the bag is trapped by the HEPA filter.
Theoretically I don't think that both methods are meant to be used together
but I do it anyway. I don't know if your vac has any such option but mine,
being German, is probably over-engineered (probably over-priced too but
nothing I can do about that).

I found that my DC _did_ get clogged by fine dust when I was doing a lot of
heavy sanding and the bag had to be beaten to loosen it. I set up a kludge
with a second bag and that alleviated the problem but didn't eliminate it.

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Old June 12th 19, 06:38 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Constant shop vac filter clog

Meanie wrote:

On 6/11/2019 10:43 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 9:47:34 PM UTC-4, Spalted Walt wrote:
Meanie wrote:

I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w8jXS8Fjh8


I'd like to see what happens when the hose end gets stopped up and all
the force hits those connections. Having seen how much a wet-dry vac
can distort those 5 gallon buckets, I wouldn't expect too much longevity
with that set-up.


I would use larger fittings for this project not only to ease the flow
but the larger shop vacs have 2" hoses. I assume he made it to fit a
smaller vac which he uses.


Matthias kicks it up a few notches and adds a Thein baffle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-xhYnWDCd0
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Old June 12th 19, 06:42 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Constant shop vac filter clog

On 6/12/2019 9:46 AM, John McGaw wrote:
On 6/11/2019 10:25 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 6/11/2019 9:13 PM, John McGaw wrote:
On 6/11/2019 8:34 PM, Meanie wrote:
I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided
it's time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't
anything to stop sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator.
Thus, anyone have any suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a
cyclone separator?

I just use these expensive paper bags in my Fein to collect the big
stuff and their HEPA filter to keep anything escaping (plaster dust,
for example) from blowing through and have no problem with clogging.
You don't say what sort of filtration your vac has. Maybe that is the
basis of the problem.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


How are you using the paper bag in a shop vac? I'm still using the
original paper filter that came with the vac.

I do have a dust collection system for my bigger tools but use the
shop vac for smaller hand tools and of course to clean the shop mess.


Don't know what you mean by "how". The bags in question are meant for
the vacuum in question -- see the little port in the side of the bag
where the hose feeds in. The paper is thin and has a very large surface
area, doubled over in the large canister, and the motor is very powerful
so it just sucks air through the bag's surface leaving the dross behind
inside. Anything super-fine that gets through the bag is trapped by the
HEPA filter. Theoretically I don't think that both methods are meant to
be used together but I do it anyway. I don't know if your vac has any
such option but mine, being German, is probably over-engineered
(probably over-priced too but nothing I can do about that).

I found that my DC _did_ get clogged by fine dust when I was doing a lot
of heavy sanding and the bag had to be beaten to loosen it. I set up a
kludge with a second bag and that alleviated the problem but didn't
eliminate it.



The bag looks like one for an upright vacuum which is why I asked. Shop
vacs (at least mine and most) have the conical filter which wraps around
the center exhaust. I've never seen a bag for one.
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Old June 12th 19, 09:05 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 11,437
Default Constant shop vac filter clog

On 6/11/2019 7:34 PM, Meanie wrote:
I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?



These filters, because of an old inferior vac design will always clog
quickly. I had one and bought the expensive replacement filter. The
only thing I gained was a faster to clean filter. I had to unclog it
just as often.

All better vacs, home, shop, what ever, have the debris go into the bag
and then the filter works on the fine dust that passes through the
collection bag.

If you stick with a typical shop vac you need to use something like a
cyclone prefilter,

Festool and probably Fein have all debris go straight into the bag and
the exhaust then passes through a HEPA filter. My 10 year old Festool
HEPA filters have never been cleaned and appear to never need to be cleaned.

FWIW my CT 22 Festool Vac gets used on all of my Festool sanders, Track
Saw, and Domino. I do not run any of these tools with out that Festool vac.
I change bags, on a heavy year of usage, twice a year and then I toss
them. Keep in mind this does not collect planer, drum sander, lathe, or
table saw dust. The Festool bags are very efficient, the 22 liter bag
is packed solidly full before I notice any loss in suction.
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Old June 12th 19, 10:26 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 3,070
Default Constant shop vac filter clog

Meanie on Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?


Easy plan is that somewhere upstream of the filter, put a "box"
which is much larger than the hose, where in the 'larger' chunks fall
out. With baffles you can cause eddies in the air flow which will
allow more dust to "fall out".
Or buy a small cyclone unit to do the same thing.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?


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Old June 13th 19, 01:52 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 248
Default Constant shop vac filter clog

On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:42:53 -0400, Meanie wrote:

On 6/12/2019 9:46 AM, John McGaw wrote:
On 6/11/2019 10:25 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 6/11/2019 9:13 PM, John McGaw wrote:
On 6/11/2019 8:34 PM, Meanie wrote:
I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided
it's time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't
anything to stop sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator.
Thus, anyone have any suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a
cyclone separator?

I just use these expensive paper bags in my Fein to collect the big
stuff and their HEPA filter to keep anything escaping (plaster dust,
for example) from blowing through and have no problem with clogging.
You don't say what sort of filtration your vac has. Maybe that is the
basis of the problem.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


How are you using the paper bag in a shop vac? I'm still using the
original paper filter that came with the vac.

I do have a dust collection system for my bigger tools but use the
shop vac for smaller hand tools and of course to clean the shop mess.


Don't know what you mean by "how". The bags in question are meant for
the vacuum in question -- see the little port in the side of the bag
where the hose feeds in. The paper is thin and has a very large surface
area, doubled over in the large canister, and the motor is very powerful
so it just sucks air through the bag's surface leaving the dross behind
inside. Anything super-fine that gets through the bag is trapped by the
HEPA filter. Theoretically I don't think that both methods are meant to
be used together but I do it anyway. I don't know if your vac has any
such option but mine, being German, is probably over-engineered
(probably over-priced too but nothing I can do about that).

I found that my DC _did_ get clogged by fine dust when I was doing a lot
of heavy sanding and the bag had to be beaten to loosen it. I set up a
kludge with a second bag and that alleviated the problem but didn't
eliminate it.



The bag looks like one for an upright vacuum which is why I asked. Shop
vacs (at least mine and most) have the conical filter which wraps around
the center exhaust. I've never seen a bag for one.


It may be a European thing. Festool vacs use bags too.
  #17   Report Post  
Old June 13th 19, 04:09 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 1,790
Default Constant shop vac filter clog

On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 20:52:12 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:42:53 -0400, Meanie wrote:

On 6/12/2019 9:46 AM, John McGaw wrote:
On 6/11/2019 10:25 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 6/11/2019 9:13 PM, John McGaw wrote:
On 6/11/2019 8:34 PM, Meanie wrote:
I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided
it's time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't
anything to stop sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator.
Thus, anyone have any suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a
cyclone separator?

I just use these expensive paper bags in my Fein to collect the big
stuff and their HEPA filter to keep anything escaping (plaster dust,
for example) from blowing through and have no problem with clogging.
You don't say what sort of filtration your vac has. Maybe that is the
basis of the problem.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


How are you using the paper bag in a shop vac? I'm still using the
original paper filter that came with the vac.

I do have a dust collection system for my bigger tools but use the
shop vac for smaller hand tools and of course to clean the shop mess.

Don't know what you mean by "how". The bags in question are meant for
the vacuum in question -- see the little port in the side of the bag
where the hose feeds in. The paper is thin and has a very large surface
area, doubled over in the large canister, and the motor is very powerful
so it just sucks air through the bag's surface leaving the dross behind
inside. Anything super-fine that gets through the bag is trapped by the
HEPA filter. Theoretically I don't think that both methods are meant to
be used together but I do it anyway. I don't know if your vac has any
such option but mine, being German, is probably over-engineered
(probably over-priced too but nothing I can do about that).

I found that my DC _did_ get clogged by fine dust when I was doing a lot
of heavy sanding and the bag had to be beaten to loosen it. I set up a
kludge with a second bag and that alleviated the problem but didn't
eliminate it.



The bag looks like one for an upright vacuum which is why I asked. Shop
vacs (at least mine and most) have the conical filter which wraps around
the center exhaust. I've never seen a bag for one.


It may be a European thing. Festool vacs use bags too.


One of the BORG vacs (Ridgid) I bought has a bag. I was rather
surprised by it.
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Old June 13th 19, 04:12 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Constant shop vac filter clog

On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:26:51 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Meanie on Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?


Easy plan is that somewhere upstream of the filter, put a "box"
which is much larger than the hose, where in the 'larger' chunks fall
out. With baffles you can cause eddies in the air flow which will
allow more dust to "fall out".


Baffles will increase the air resistance, thus drop the suction
appreciably.

Or buy a small cyclone unit to do the same thing.


Much better but TANSTAAFL.
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Old June 13th 19, 03:16 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 1,183
Default Constant shop vac filter clog

On 6/12/2019 5:26 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Meanie on Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?


Easy plan is that somewhere upstream of the filter, put a "box"
which is much larger than the hose, where in the 'larger' chunks fall
out. With baffles you can cause eddies in the air flow which will
allow more dust to "fall out".


That's what I did with my regular dust collector. That was way before
the internet telling me it wouldn't work without huge horsepower, and
all that stuff.

I figured when the high pressure/velocity in the small intake hose hit
the 40 gallon drum (essentually a 22" hose) the pressure drop would
cause the sawdust to drop out into the drum. Next, I figured the intake
hoses should direct the dust in a circular manner, around the outside of
the drum, causing the heavier stuff to fall to the sides. This has
served me well over the years, and I hook all my large machinery up to
it w/o problems, including jointer, planer, TS. Almost no sawdust gets
to the collector which is about 25 feet away, though all sorts of turns
and twists.

http://jbstein.com/Flick/dc1020457.jpg
http://jbstein.com/Flick/dc1020458.jpg

I have since these pictures added a 4" hose for my 15" planer, and 3"
hose for my 6" jointer. It never clogs up, but the collector does get
fine powder in it and needs cleaned a couple times a year. I don't hook
my 48" belt, 10" disk sander to it anymore, but just use the shop vac as
that fine powder does get through more than I'd like.

This collector doesn't have a 200 hp diesel engine powering it however,
and would be what most would consider under powered, but it sure works
and that's what I care about. My collector is high volume, low pressure
whereas a shop vac is low volume high pressure.

Or buy a small cyclone unit to do the same thing.


I've seen lots of Youtube videos of these, including the Thein baffle,
and they don't seem to work any better than my system, some a little
worse. I've been thinking of making a smaller setup like this for one
of my shop vacs, but really, I don't empty them but once it a while
since most of the work is done by my big collector. The fine dust
(powder) you get from sanding is going to get to your filter without
Herculien effort to remove it first. That's why they have filters on
them. My shop vacs can handle the dust on the filters rather well, and
I can easily fill up the small 5 gallon can with dust covering the filter.

Also, my pictures show el fittings in the drum, but I noticed my shop
vacs just have a straight pipe with an endcap, and a hole/notch cut in
the side to direct the air around the outside of the drum, that would be
easy to implement as well.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
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Old June 13th 19, 04:06 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Constant shop vac filter clog

On 6/12/2019 8:52 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:42:53 -0400, Meanie wrote:


I found that my DC _did_ get clogged by fine dust when I was doing a lot
of heavy sanding and the bag had to be beaten to loosen it. I set up a
kludge with a second bag and that alleviated the problem but didn't
eliminate it.



The bag looks like one for an upright vacuum which is why I asked. Shop
vacs (at least mine and most) have the conical filter which wraps around
the center exhaust. I've never seen a bag for one.


It may be a European thing. Festool vacs use bags too.


My 40+ year old American made, wet or dry ShopVac used bags. I just
brushed them off and used them until they got holes in them. No hepa
crap, no dust, just lots of ear bleeding noise. I finally gave up on
waiting for the damned thing to break, and replaced it with a nice,
quiet Ridged. I'm trying to throw away the ShopVac, but have trouble
throwing anything away, particularly if it works.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.


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