Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21   Report Post  
Old December 22nd 18, 06:58 PM posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,783
Default Electrical Connection Technique (A Woodworking Tool Is Involved)

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 09:52:47 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:05:03 PM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in ):

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 1:24:11 PM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in ):

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in ):

Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
replace
the power cord on a circular saw.

If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
connector"
from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE

I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in t

e
video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses



The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
there
is space -- which looks questionable in this case.

In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in
ages,
and it wasnt something that one could afford to do at home anyway.

Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. Thi


is
bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the
screw
is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire doe


not
squeeze out from under the terminal screw.

One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
copper wire to solidify the ring.

The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while
being
tightened.

.
I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the
plastic
handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.

I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, bu


this area is critical.

Joe Gwinn

BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
hurt".

I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I
don't
like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain
manner
(e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently



I agree. I would have connected the green to the motor frame somehow. But
double-insulated does work anyway, so the safety is not reduced.

My lathe cane with floating green, and that lathe would give a tickle due to
leakage from motor windings to motor frame, and thus to lathe cabinet. The
short-tern fix was a green ground wite (with ring terminals at both ends)
from cabinet to electrical safety ground. Wen I rewired the lathe, I
discovered the floating green, and fixed the problem.

But I will say that the guy in the video probably is not an electrical guy,
and so would not know what to do with that wire if he could not find a green
terminal for it.

I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job
site if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.

Well, actually it would have been approved when it came out, and also today.
Double-insulated is still OK by UL.

Joe Gwinn

Yes, when it came out - double insulated with a 2 prong plug.

Today, modified with a 3 prong plug and unconnected ground? I think not.

I'd wager that if that saw was taken in for repair at an OSHA certified
repair shop, the shop would open it up and say "We can't put it back together
unless we replace the cord."

If they wanted to be extra cautious so as not to get on the wrong side of
OSHA, they'd probably interpret the "approved" sections of this letter
very strictly:

https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2009-03-16-1

I could be wrong, but I'd wager a beverage or two on it.


I agree with your interpretation ofthe OSHA page above, so Ill not be
betting any precious beverages.

But Id wager that shops that are that too strict on such minor issues lose
business.


I wonder if OSHA does sting operations to check these shops.

Other than those fake "mandatory" OSHA training sessions held by
immigration officers, that is.

Our local electrical tool repair depot always uses manufacturer
supplied or authorized replacement cords unless they are no longer
available, where they usually try to use a similar cord from the
suppliers other products, or a competitors part that is functionally
similar. They virtually NEVER use a "made up " cord.

  #22   Report Post  
Old December 22nd 18, 07:10 PM posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,783
Default Electrical Connection Technique (A Woodworking Tool Is Involved)

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 12:04:56 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in ):

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 1:24:11 PM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in ):

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in ):

Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
replace
the power cord on a circular saw.

If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
connector"
from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE

I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in t

e
video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses



The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
there
is space -- which looks questionable in this case.

In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in
ages,
and it wasnt something that one could afford to do at home anyway.

Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. Thi


is
bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the
screw
is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire doe


not
squeeze out from under the terminal screw.

One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
copper wire to solidify the ring.

The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while
being
tightened.

.
I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the
plastic
handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.

I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, bu


this area is critical.

Joe Gwinn

BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
hurt".

I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I
don't
like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain
manner
(e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently



I agree. I would have connected the green to the motor frame somehow. But
double-insulated does work anyway, so the safety is not reduced.

My lathe cane with floating green, and that lathe would give a tickle due to
leakage from motor windings to motor frame, and thus to lathe cabinet. The
short-tern fix was a green ground wite (with ring terminals at both ends)
from cabinet to electrical safety ground. Wen I rewired the lathe, I
discovered the floating green, and fixed the problem.

But I will say that the guy in the video probably is not an electrical guy,
and so would not know what to do with that wire if he could not find a green
terminal for it.

I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job
site if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.

Well, actually it would have been approved when it came out, and also today.
Double-insulated is still OK by UL.

Joe Gwinn


Yes, when it came out - double insulated with a 2 prong plug.

Today, modified with a 3 prong plug and unconnected ground? I think not.

I'd wager that if that saw was taken in for repair at an OSHA certified
repair shop, the shop would open it up and say "We can't put it back together
unless we replace the cord."

If they wanted to be extra cautious so as not to get on the wrong side of
OSHA, they'd probably interpret the "approved" sections of this letter
very strictly:

https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2009-03-16-1

I could be wrong, but I'd wager a beverage or two on it.


I agree with your interpretation ofthe OSHA page above, so Ill not be
betting any precious beverages.

But Id wager that shops that are that too strict on such minor issues lose
business. A few years ago, I overheard a general contractor musing about
which plumber to use for a minor installation, commenting that one plumber
always pulled a permit regardless, and so chose someone else for the job.

Not that changing the cord is such a disaster, but I bet there are
bewildering and expensive stories aplenty.

Taken with the plastic clock story mentioned in the present thread, one
wonders if its best to do our own repairs.

Joe Gwinn

Another component to this discussion is who pays the repair depot to
re-assemble the tool??
Generally the "diagnosis" dissassembly is not charged out.
Our local repair center usually has a pretty good stack of "abandoned"
non-repairable tools. What does the contractor want an unuseable tool
for???

I have had several tools that replacement parts were no longer
available for, which, upon further investigation could be "updated" by
replacing one or two extra parts (of a sub-assembly) so currently
available parts could be used. One required replacement of the entire
plastic handle when the original switch and switch cover were no
longer available (the handle for the tool's replacement fit perfectly)
and another required replacement of the entire"ram" portion of a
SawzAll when the bearing portion was no longer available. Again, the
parts from the tools successor fit perfectly as an assembly (something
like $20 worth of parts instead of $9 - on a $139 tool)
  #23   Report Post  
Old December 22nd 18, 07:11 PM posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,783
Default Electrical Connection Technique (A Woodworking Tool Is Involved)

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:48:54 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

On Dec 22, 2018, wrote
(in ):

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in ):

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in ):

Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
replace
the power cord on a circular saw.

If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
connector"
from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE

I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in
the
video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.

The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
there
is space -- which looks questionable in this case.

The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
he should solder the loop


*NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
work-harden at that point.


Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as discussed
upthread.

I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.

If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration testing, then
no soldering - must be crimped.

Joe Gwinn

As in aviation repairs - where "soldered connections MUST be
supported" - which is generally interpreted as "crimp only"
  #24   Report Post  
Old December 22nd 18, 07:18 PM posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,783
Default Electrical Connection Technique (A Woodworking Tool Is Involved)

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 04:56:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:
SNIPPED

BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
hurt".


I take more exception to his statement that the position of the
wires (black vs white) inside the tool doesn't matter. There is a
reason ALL double insulated devices have "polarized" plugs!

A 3 prong plug, if properly wired, plays the part of a "polarized
plug" by ensuring the neutral wire of the tool always finds the
neutral of the outlet - - -


That said - the PROPER polarized cord, correctly connected, is the
PROPER way to repair it.

What he did - with the exception of disregarding the "polarity" of the
cord was likely "safe" for home and personal use but would NOT pass on
a job-site.
I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
(e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.


+1

I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.


Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
was happy.


That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual safety knowledge just so
that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.

  #25   Report Post  
Old December 22nd 18, 07:35 PM posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Nov 2006
Posts: 13,892
Default Electrical Connection Technique (A Woodworking Tool Is Involved)

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 1:19:01 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 04:56:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:
SNIPPED

BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
hurt".


I take more exception to his statement that the position of the
wires (black vs white) inside the tool doesn't matter. There is a
reason ALL double insulated devices have "polarized" plugs!


That one was on my list too. There were a number of things that I took
exception to, which was why I asked my question about the "homemade ring
connector". With all the other things that I considered "wrong" I was
wondering if I should add that to my list.

I laughed at one of his other lines, in reference to blowing the saw dust
out of the handle. "Repair shops don't do it, so I'm not going to either."

I have my own saying about keeping things clean: "If I'm cleaning it, I'm
looking at it."

I keep my vehicles as close to spotless as possible, inside and out. If
I'm vacuuming it, I'm looking in every nook and cranny. I might see a
damaged seat belt anchor or a lose wire under a seat. If I'm wiping down
the door jambs, I might find rust. If I'm wiping down the engine, I might
see oil seepage.

The same goes for blowing the saw dust out of the handle as long as I have
it open. It can't hurt, it can only help.


A 3 prong plug, if properly wired, plays the part of a "polarized
plug" by ensuring the neutral wire of the tool always finds the
neutral of the outlet - - -


That said - the PROPER polarized cord, correctly connected, is the
PROPER way to repair it.

What he did - with the exception of disregarding the "polarity" of the
cord was likely "safe" for home and personal use but would NOT pass on
a job-site.
I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
(e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.

+1

I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.

Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
was happy.


That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual safety knowledge just so
that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.




  #26   Report Post  
Old December 22nd 18, 07:38 PM posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Sep 2017
Posts: 238
Default Electrical Connection Technique (A Woodworking Tool Is Involved)

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:11:47 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:48:54 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

On Dec 22, 2018, wrote
(in ):

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in ):

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in ):

Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
replace
the power cord on a circular saw.

If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
connector"
from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE

I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in
the
video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.

The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
there
is space -- which looks questionable in this case.

The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
he should solder the loop

*NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
work-harden at that point.


Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as discussed
upthread.

I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.

If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration testing, then
no soldering - must be crimped.

Joe Gwinn

As in aviation repairs - where "soldered connections MUST be
supported" - which is generally interpreted as "crimp only"


There's another issue with solder on connections that carry
significant power--heat it up and solder melts. I ran into this with
the ground cable on a Volvo once. Took me the longest time to figure
it out--when the weather was warm the car would start fine, when it
was cold it wouldn't, but when I checked things the battery and cables
were fine. Wasn't until I noticed something smoking one day that I
figured out that it was the soldered-on ground clamp that most of the
solder had run out of so there wasn't much contact but enough that a
meter showed low resistance. Had a connector one crimped on and the
problem went away.

Admittedly this is less likely to be an issue with a saw but it's
still worth bearing in mind. There's a reason NEC requires pressure
connectors and not solder.
  #27   Report Post  
Old December 22nd 18, 07:49 PM posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,724
Default Electrical Connection Technique (A Woodworking Tool Is Involved)

On 12/22/18 12:38 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:11:47 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:48:54 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

On Dec 22, 2018, wrote
(in ):

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in ):

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in ):

Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
replace
the power cord on a circular saw.

If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
connector"
from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE

I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in
the
video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.

The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
there
is space -- which looks questionable in this case.

The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
he should solder the loop

*NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
work-harden at that point.

Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as discussed
upthread.

I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.

If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration testing, then
no soldering - must be crimped.

Joe Gwinn

As in aviation repairs - where "soldered connections MUST be
supported" - which is generally interpreted as "crimp only"


There's another issue with solder on connections that carry
significant power--heat it up and solder melts. I ran into this with
the ground cable on a Volvo once. Took me the longest time to figure
it out--when the weather was warm the car would start fine, when it
was cold it wouldn't, but when I checked things the battery and cables
were fine. Wasn't until I noticed something smoking one day that I
figured out that it was the soldered-on ground clamp that most of the
solder had run out of so there wasn't much contact but enough that a
meter showed low resistance. Had a connector one crimped on and the
problem went away.

Admittedly this is less likely to be an issue with a saw but it's
still worth bearing in mind. There's a reason NEC requires pressure
connectors and not solder.


What the heck kind of solder did you use?
Isn't the melting point of common solder up near 350 degrees?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com


  #28   Report Post  
Old December 22nd 18, 08:26 PM posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Aug 2009
Posts: 930
Default Electrical Connection Technique (A Woodworking Tool Is Involved)

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 12:49:21 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 12/22/18 12:38 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:11:47 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:48:54 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

On Dec 22, 2018, wrote
(in ):

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in ):

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in ):

Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
replace
the power cord on a circular saw.

If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
connector"
from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE

I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in
the
video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.

The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
there
is space -- which looks questionable in this case.

The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
he should solder the loop

*NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
work-harden at that point.

Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as discussed
upthread.

I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.

If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration testing, then
no soldering - must be crimped.

Joe Gwinn
As in aviation repairs - where "soldered connections MUST be
supported" - which is generally interpreted as "crimp only"


There's another issue with solder on connections that carry
significant power--heat it up and solder melts. I ran into this with
the ground cable on a Volvo once. Took me the longest time to figure
it out--when the weather was warm the car would start fine, when it
was cold it wouldn't, but when I checked things the battery and cables
were fine. Wasn't until I noticed something smoking one day that I
figured out that it was the soldered-on ground clamp that most of the
solder had run out of so there wasn't much contact but enough that a
meter showed low resistance. Had a connector one crimped on and the
problem went away.

Admittedly this is less likely to be an issue with a saw but it's
still worth bearing in mind. There's a reason NEC requires pressure
connectors and not solder.


What the heck kind of solder did you use?
Isn't the melting point of common solder up near 350 degrees?


Most wire solder for electronics around 700 F iron is used, solder
paste 185 C and 170 C ( for two sided boards that are soldered ).
Plumbing solder not sure.
  #29   Report Post  
Old December 22nd 18, 08:34 PM posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,783
Default Electrical Connection Technique (A Woodworking Tool Is Involved)

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:26:58 -0600, Markem
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 12:49:21 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 12/22/18 12:38 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:11:47 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:48:54 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

On Dec 22, 2018, wrote
(in ):

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in ):

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in ):

Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
replace
the power cord on a circular saw.

If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
connector"
from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE

I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in
the
video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.

The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
there
is space -- which looks questionable in this case.

The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
he should solder the loop

*NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
work-harden at that point.

Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as discussed
upthread.

I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.

If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration testing, then
no soldering - must be crimped.

Joe Gwinn
As in aviation repairs - where "soldered connections MUST be
supported" - which is generally interpreted as "crimp only"

There's another issue with solder on connections that carry
significant power--heat it up and solder melts. I ran into this with
the ground cable on a Volvo once. Took me the longest time to figure
it out--when the weather was warm the car would start fine, when it
was cold it wouldn't, but when I checked things the battery and cables
were fine. Wasn't until I noticed something smoking one day that I
figured out that it was the soldered-on ground clamp that most of the
solder had run out of so there wasn't much contact but enough that a
meter showed low resistance. Had a connector one crimped on and the
problem went away.

Admittedly this is less likely to be an issue with a saw but it's
still worth bearing in mind. There's a reason NEC requires pressure
connectors and not solder.


What the heck kind of solder did you use?
Isn't the melting point of common solder up near 350 degrees?


Most wire solder for electronics around 700 F iron is used, solder
paste 185 C and 170 C ( for two sided boards that are soldered ).
Plumbing solder not sure.


Except in the case of surface mount components solder should NEVER be
the primary connection. All soldered joints should be "mechanically
secure" before soldering. In other words, crimp AND solder, or twist
AND solder. On battery cables you crimp to make the electrical and
mechanical connection, then you solder to seal and protect the joint.
(gas tight joint - which is also the aim of a properly crimped (or
"crimp-welded" electrical connector.
Even then, if the soldered cable end came loose, you had other
problems - like a loose or corroded bolt-on connection that caused the
connection to heat up. A properly connected and soldered cable end
does NOT heat up enouigh to melt the solder.
  #30   Report Post  
Old December 22nd 18, 08:45 PM posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,783
Default Electrical Connection Technique (A Woodworking Tool Is Involved)

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 12:49:21 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 12/22/18 12:38 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:11:47 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:48:54 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

On Dec 22, 2018, wrote
(in ):

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in ):

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in ):

Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
replace
the power cord on a circular saw.

If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
connector"
from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE

I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in
the
video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.

The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
there
is space -- which looks questionable in this case.

The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
he should solder the loop

*NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
work-harden at that point.

Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as discussed
upthread.

I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.

If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration testing, then
no soldering - must be crimped.

Joe Gwinn
As in aviation repairs - where "soldered connections MUST be
supported" - which is generally interpreted as "crimp only"


There's another issue with solder on connections that carry
significant power--heat it up and solder melts. I ran into this with
the ground cable on a Volvo once. Took me the longest time to figure
it out--when the weather was warm the car would start fine, when it
was cold it wouldn't, but when I checked things the battery and cables
were fine. Wasn't until I noticed something smoking one day that I
figured out that it was the soldered-on ground clamp that most of the
solder had run out of so there wasn't much contact but enough that a
meter showed low resistance. Had a connector one crimped on and the
problem went away.

Admittedly this is less likely to be an issue with a saw but it's
still worth bearing in mind. There's a reason NEC requires pressure
connectors and not solder.


What the heck kind of solder did you use?
Isn't the melting point of common solder up near 350 degrees?

70-30 is 376F. 63-37, which is the lowest melting point lead solder
is 361F.
60-40 - the most common electrical/electronic solder is up there at
370F as well.
Eutectic solders do not have a "plastic"stage - they melt and solidify
at virtually the same temperature making poor or "cold" joints
slightly less likely.


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
28mm connection - hose connection asalcedo UK diy 0 September 26th 08 08:14 PM
Dial-Up Connection "Accelerator" Technique Brad Electronics Repair 10 March 28th 07 06:21 PM
Whats involved w/ replacing bathtub? Nobody Home Ownership 3 April 1st 05 07:32 PM
uh, oh .. electrical soldering technique question` Grant Erwin Metalworking 17 February 10th 05 08:46 AM
what is involved in stud welding? Grant Erwin Metalworking 25 April 25th 04 12:52 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:01 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2019 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"

 

Copyright © 2017