I have been trying to finish a couple or doors. Something went wrong in the finish product (I think). Can anybody spot my mistake so I can complete the job? I should add that this technique worked flawlessly on a previous set of doors.

This pair of doors has a (very expensive) molded glass center. So I am finishing only the frame surround, which is a set of 2x6,1-1/2 thick. I do not wish the strong grain to adsorb color and become dominant.

The main colorant is a toner that I made: It is Hydrocote lacquer colored with a premixed water borne dye. The dye was mixed first, cooled, and then poured into the lacquer. The mixture seems to be uniform in color.



My spray sequence was

1) Spray the door with a coat of Bullseye shellac and, after drying,
I lightly sanded it smooth. The idea of the shellac was to prevent the
grain from becoming too strong in the final product.

2) I then sprayed the water borne lacquer toner on top.


3) If nothing went wrong I would then spray a couple of coats of clear
Hydrocote and rub out the finish.

I have used this technique before with excellent results. However, this time the result was a blotchy mess. At first I thought it was fisheye. But, after drying, it appears to be smooth. but blotchy. The color is not uniform - even thought the toner seems to be uniform in color and consistency.

Should I:

1) just keep spraying hoping that it will become uniform with increased
colorant or should I stop and strip it.

2) add more color to the hydrocote

3) try to make a dye mix with significantly less water and add that
to a new batch of Hydrocote.

4) strip it and try a whole new approach.

Len

On Sunday, May 6, 2018 at 4:01:46 PM UTC-4, Len wrote:
I have been trying to finish a couple or doors. Something went wrong in the finish product (I think). Can anybody spot my mistake so I can complete the job? I should add that this technique worked flawlessly on a previous set of doors.

This pair of doors has a (very expensive) molded glass center. So I am finishing only the frame surround, which is a set of 2x6,1-1/2 thick. I do not wish the strong grain to adsorb color and become dominant.

The main colorant is a toner that I made: It is Hydrocote lacquer colored with a premixed water borne dye. The dye was mixed first, cooled, and then poured into the lacquer. The mixture seems to be uniform in color.



My spray sequence was

1) Spray the door with a coat of Bullseye shellac and, after drying,
I lightly sanded it smooth. The idea of the shellac was to prevent the
grain from becoming too strong in the final product.

2) I then sprayed the water borne lacquer toner on top.


3) If nothing went wrong I would then spray a couple of coats of clear
Hydrocote and rub out the finish.

I have used this technique before with excellent results. However, this time the result was a blotchy mess. At first I thought it was fisheye. But, after drying, it appears to be smooth. but blotchy. The color is not uniform - even thought the toner seems to be uniform in color and consistency..

Should I:

1) just keep spraying hoping that it will become uniform with increased
colorant or should I stop and strip it.

2) add more color to the hydrocote

3) try to make a dye mix with significantly less water and add that
to a new batch of Hydrocote.

4) strip it and try a whole new approach.

Len

Just a quess Did You fine sand your shellac 220 -320 grit ?
This creates a better surface an etch for the finish applied over it.
Next Temperature and Humidity can be problematic moisture on shellac will just sit there like condensation .
Make sure it is wiped dry prior to your topcoat of water soluble or solvent based topcoat.
Stripping or scraping it off may be your best alternative.
if it were solvent based You could use acetone or Laq. thinner to remove it down to the shellac but since it's water base this stuff is hard to deal with when dry. If it's not too thick You could try sanding it until your color seems uniform again but that is a crap-shoot.
Having not seen the piece it's hard for me to determine the problem
But I am going to guess it's a blushing layer of moisture between shellac and topcoat. Or possibly too thick ,too quick on Your topcoat

After agonizing over similar problems in trying to repair such a mess.
I now resort to stripping and starting over in order not spend a lot of time correcting an inferior finish.

That's all I can come up with for You I hope i have shed some light on Your problem.

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 11:00:34 AM UTC-4, Rick the antique guy wrote:
On Sunday, May 6, 2018 at 4:01:46 PM UTC-4, Len wrote:
I have been trying to finish a couple or doors. Something went wrong in the finish product (I think). Can anybody spot my mistake so I can complete the job? I should add that this technique worked flawlessly on a previous set of doors.

This pair of doors has a (very expensive) molded glass center. So I am finishing only the frame surround, which is a set of 2x6,1-1/2 thick. I do not wish the strong grain to adsorb color and become dominant.

The main colorant is a toner that I made: It is Hydrocote lacquer colored with a premixed water borne dye. The dye was mixed first, cooled, and then poured into the lacquer. The mixture seems to be uniform in color.



My spray sequence was

1) Spray the door with a coat of Bullseye shellac and, after drying,
I lightly sanded it smooth. The idea of the shellac was to prevent the
grain from becoming too strong in the final product.

2) I then sprayed the water borne lacquer toner on top.


3) If nothing went wrong I would then spray a couple of coats of clear
Hydrocote and rub out the finish.

I have used this technique before with excellent results. However, this time the result was a blotchy mess. At first I thought it was fisheye. But, after drying, it appears to be smooth. but blotchy. The color is not uniform - even thought the toner seems to be uniform in color and consistency.

Should I:

1) just keep spraying hoping that it will become uniform with increased
colorant or should I stop and strip it.

2) add more color to the hydrocote

3) try to make a dye mix with significantly less water and add that
to a new batch of Hydrocote.

4) strip it and try a whole new approach.

Len

Just a quess Did You fine sand your shellac 220 -320 grit ?
This creates a better surface an etch for the finish applied over it.
Next Temperature and Humidity can be problematic moisture on shellac will just sit there like condensation .
Make sure it is wiped dry prior to your topcoat of water soluble or solvent based topcoat.
Stripping or scraping it off may be your best alternative.
if it were solvent based You could use acetone or Laq. thinner to remove it down to the shellac but since it's water base this stuff is hard to deal with when dry. If it's not too thick You could try sanding it until your color seems uniform again but that is a crap-shoot.
Having not seen the piece it's hard for me to determine the problem
But I am going to guess it's a blushing layer of moisture between shellac and topcoat. Or possibly too thick ,too quick on Your topcoat

After agonizing over similar problems in trying to repair such a mess.
I now resort to stripping and starting over in order not spend a lot of time correcting an inferior finish.

That's all I can come up with for You I hope i have shed some light on Your problem.

Another fine point is: that I rarely color or stain topcoats other than for a repair or touch-up to an existing finish.Sometime if the finish is not subject to wearit is an acceptable choice to darkenor change color hue slightly.
It's almost a certain disaster when tryiing to go to a lighter shade.

I always prefer to stain or color the wood itself prior to the sealing with a shellac or sealer.
This adds depth to the color and it is less likely to chip scrape or scratch off as it would if it were a colored topcoat.
In most cases let your topcoat be clear not mixed with colors or stains.
It's more easily ready for a scratch repair,since you may not have damaged the color beneath the sealer
rick B.

On Sun, 6 May 2018 13:01:43 -0700 (PDT), Len wrote:

I have been trying to finish a couple or doors. Something went wrong in the finish product (I think). Can anybody spot my mistake so I can complete the job? I should add that this technique worked flawlessly on a previous set of doors.

This pair of doors has a (very expensive) molded glass center. So I am finishing only the frame surround, which is a set of 2x6,1-1/2 thick. I do not wish the strong grain to adsorb color and become dominant.

The main colorant is a toner that I made: It is Hydrocote lacquer colored with a premixed water borne dye. The dye was mixed first, cooled, and then poured into the lacquer. The mixture seems to be uniform in color.



My spray sequence was

1) Spray the door with a coat of Bullseye shellac and, after drying,
I lightly sanded it smooth. The idea of the shellac was to prevent the
grain from becoming too strong in the final product.


With some woods this is vital to prevent blotching. Did you over sand
the sealing coat? Was it too thin?

In the back of my mind I sort of remember doing a "water absorption
test" after this step in order to verify an adequate coat.

However, bear in mind that my experience is limited here.

2) I then sprayed the water borne lacquer toner on top.


3) If nothing went wrong I would then spray a couple of coats of clear
Hydrocote and rub out the finish.

I have used this technique before with excellent results. However, this time the result was a blotchy mess. At first I thought it was fisheye. But, after drying, it appears to be smooth. but blotchy. The color is not uniform - even thought the toner seems to be uniform in color and consistency.

Should I:

1) just keep spraying hoping that it will become uniform with increased
colorant or should I stop and strip it.

2) add more color to the hydrocote

3) try to make a dye mix with significantly less water and add that
to a new batch of Hydrocote.

4) strip it and try a whole new approach.

Len