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steam bending
at a medium scale furniture maker that did a lot of bending
the old guys did all the work by skill alone in other words they had no formulas they just knew the right amount of moisture needed before they tried the bend well these old craftsman were about to retire and so they hired new guys the new guys had a hard time picking up that skill and decided to measure everything thought the old guys might balk but they encouraged the new guys and were actually glad because they could retire sooner than they thought the chair backs they make are very nice |
steam bending
Electric Comet on Tue, 16 Jan 2018
10:58:44 -0800 typed in rec.woodworking the following: at a medium scale furniture maker that did a lot of bending the old guys did all the work by skill alone in other words they had no formulas they just knew the right amount of moisture needed before they tried the bend "Good judgment comes from experience" "Experience comes from bad judgment." Or in this case: how many boards did they wreck learning what was the "right amount"? well these old craftsman were about to retire and so they hired new guys the new guys had a hard time picking up that skill and decided to measure everything thought the old guys might balk but they encouraged the new guys and were actually glad because they could retire sooner than they thought "If it looks stupid , but it works - it isn't stupid." the chair backs they make are very nice -- pyotr filipivich Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing? |
steam bending
On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 12:58:48 PM UTC-6, Electric Comet wrote:
at a medium scale furniture maker that did a lot of bending the old guys did all the work by skill alone in other words they had no formulas they just knew the right amount of moisture needed before they tried the bend well these old craftsman were about to retire and so they hired new guys the new guys had a hard time picking up that skill and decided to measure everything thought the old guys might balk but they encouraged the new guys and were actually glad because they could retire sooner than they thought the chair backs they make are very nice What's the moisture content of the wood before steam bending? What's your drying process after? Someday I'd like to make a captain's chair. |
steam bending
On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 10:38:41 PM UTC-5, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Electric Comet on Tue, 16 Jan 2018 10:58:44 -0800 typed in rec.woodworking the following: at a medium scale furniture maker that did a lot of bending the old guys did all the work by skill alone in other words they had no formulas they just knew the right amount of moisture needed before they tried the bend "Good judgment comes from experience" "Experience comes from bad judgment." Or in this case: how many boards did they wreck learning what was the "right amount"? well these old craftsman were about to retire and so they hired new guys the new guys had a hard time picking up that skill and decided to measure everything thought the old guys might balk but they encouraged the new guys and were actually glad because they could retire sooner than they thought "If it looks stupid , but it works - it isn't stupid." "It's only temporary - unless it works." |
steam bending
On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 10:57:03 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 12:58:48 PM UTC-6, Electric Comet wrote: at a medium scale furniture maker that did a lot of bending the old guys did all the work by skill alone in other words they had no formulas they just knew the right amount of moisture needed before they tried the bend well these old craftsman were about to retire and so they hired new guys the new guys had a hard time picking up that skill and decided to measure everything thought the old guys might balk but they encouraged the new guys and were actually glad because they could retire sooner than they thought the chair backs they make are very nice What's the moisture content of the wood before steam bending? What's your drying process after? Someday I'd like to make a captain's chair. A brief description can be found here - https://www.leevalley.com/us/html/05F1501ie.pdf |
steam bending
On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 03:59:57 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote: On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 10:38:41 PM UTC-5, pyotr filipivich wrote: Electric Comet on Tue, 16 Jan 2018 10:58:44 -0800 typed in rec.woodworking the following: at a medium scale furniture maker that did a lot of bending the old guys did all the work by skill alone in other words they had no formulas they just knew the right amount of moisture needed before they tried the bend "Good judgment comes from experience" "Experience comes from bad judgment." Or in this case: how many boards did they wreck learning what was the "right amount"? well these old craftsman were about to retire and so they hired new guys the new guys had a hard time picking up that skill and decided to measure everything thought the old guys might balk but they encouraged the new guys and were actually glad because they could retire sooner than they thought "If it looks stupid , but it works - it isn't stupid." "It's only temporary - unless it works." There is nothing so permanent as a temporary fix. |
steam bending
On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 7:38:53 AM UTC-6, Jay Pique wrote:
On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 10:57:03 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 12:58:48 PM UTC-6, Electric Comet wrote: at a medium scale furniture maker that did a lot of bending the old guys did all the work by skill alone in other words they had no formulas they just knew the right amount of moisture needed before they tried the bend well these old craftsman were about to retire and so they hired new guys the new guys had a hard time picking up that skill and decided to measure everything thought the old guys might balk but they encouraged the new guys and were actually glad because they could retire sooner than they thought the chair backs they make are very nice What's the moisture content of the wood before steam bending? What's your drying process after? Someday I'd like to make a captain's chair. A brief description can be found here - https://www.leevalley.com/us/html/05F1501ie.pdf This is great information. Thanks! |
steam bending
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:39:09 -0800
pyotr filipivich wrote: Or in this case: how many boards did they wreck learning what was the "right amount"? rhetorical i know but it is wood so they still have failures just a reminder wood has no imperfections but only misuse or miscalculations or in other words incorrect expectations in its use |
steam bending
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:56:59 -0800 (PST)
Michael wrote: What's the moisture content of the wood before steam bending? What's your drying process after? Someday I'd like to make a captain's chair. it depends but as you might guess that is a trade secret |
steam bending
Electric Comet on Wed, 17 Jan 2018
09:03:55 -0800 typed in rec.woodworking the following: On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:39:09 -0800 pyotr filipivich wrote: Or in this case: how many boards did they wreck learning what was the "right amount"? rhetorical i know but it is wood so they still have failures Well, yes. There is that while bit of the difference between the apprentice, journeyman and the master. After a failure the apprentice says "I thought it would work." The journeyman says "That doesn't work." and the Master say "Oh yeah, that doesn't work." just a reminder wood has no imperfections but only misuse or miscalculations or in other words incorrect expectations in its use Yep. -- pyotr filipivich Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing? |
steam bending
On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 09:03:55 -0800, Electric Comet
wrote: On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:39:09 -0800 pyotr filipivich wrote: Or in this case: how many boards did they wreck learning what was the "right amount"? rhetorical i know but it is wood so they still have failures just a reminder wood has no imperfections but only misuse or miscalculations or in other words incorrect expectations in its use Wood has no imperfections? I've certainly come across a crack or two. I've also come across hidden internal stress, which caused havoc when it decided to relieve itself. |
steam bending
On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 8:36:53 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 09:03:55 -0800, Electric Comet wrote: On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:39:09 -0800 pyotr filipivich wrote: Or in this case: how many boards did they wreck learning what was the "right amount"? rhetorical i know but it is wood so they still have failures just a reminder wood has no imperfections but only misuse or miscalculations or in other words incorrect expectations in its use Wood has no imperfections? I've certainly come across a crack or two. I've also come across hidden internal stress, which caused havoc when it decided to relieve itself. Wait for it... EC is going to say: user should have accounted for stresses crack should have been prepared for wood was perfect user wasn't |
steam bending
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steam bending
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steam bending
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 09:55:27 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 1/17/2018 7:36 PM, wrote: On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 09:03:55 -0800, Electric Comet wrote: On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:39:09 -0800 pyotr filipivich wrote: Or in this case: how many boards did they wreck learning what was the "right amount"? rhetorical i know but it is wood so they still have failures just a reminder wood has no imperfections but only misuse or miscalculations or in other words incorrect expectations in its use Wood has no imperfections? I've certainly come across a crack or two. I've also come across hidden internal stress, which caused havoc when it decided to relieve itself. sentences have no imperfections but only misuse or miscalculations or in other words incorrect expectations of a keyboard His keyboard was fine (though missing caps and shift keys). His sentence was fine, too. His meaning sucked. i.e. he was wrong. pot....kettle OK. |
steam bending
On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 16:24:28 -0800
pyotr filipivich wrote: Well, yes. There is that while bit of the difference between the apprentice, journeyman and the master. After a failure the apprentice says "I thought it would work." The journeyman says "That doesn't work." and the Master say "Oh yeah, that doesn't work." not that it matters if we agree because that is boring anyway the master can still make mistakes because wood growth is pretty random although not completely because it has constraints but the master definitely becomes better at pattern recognition that pattern recognition will be hard to quantify for this apprentice i mentioned and really can only come from experience so if the apprentice only relies on quantifying by measuring weight or moisture content or any other metric besides visual scan backed by deep learning then the apprentice will never obtain master status and the furniture company will get tired of too much scrap wood and then they will wonder why this one guy seems to have amazing success even though he did not even attend college but he knows wood |
steam bending
Electric Comet on Thu, 18 Jan 2018
09:10:02 -0800 typed in rec.woodworking the following: so if the apprentice only relies on quantifying by measuring weight or moisture content or any other metric besides visual scan backed by deep learning then the apprentice will never obtain master status and the furniture company will get tired of too much scrap wood and then they will wonder why this one guy seems to have amazing success even though he did not even attend college but he knows wood Yep. "Schooling should not be mistaken for Education". Too often that is thought of in terms of going to school or not. But it is equally "obvious" that you can send two people through the same program, and one will "get it" and the other won't. And by "get it" I don't mean that they are "buzzword compliant" - to use a phrase - that is the credentialed "schooled" person. By get it, they have integrated what they learned in Class 101 with what they covered in 202, and life experience, and, and, &c and usw. It is that "integration" which leads to an "educated" individual - be it book learning or practical skills. I'm reminded of the Texas expression "He's read a book". Which can be taken either way: he's read a book and _thinks_ he knows what he's doing OR he not only knows the practical of the job, but has read up on the theory. Be that cattle ranching, carpentry or cabinet work. -- pyotr filipivich Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing? |
steam bending
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 09:42:19 -0800
pyotr filipivich wrote: I'm reminded of the Texas expression "He's read a book". Which can be taken either way: he's read a book and _thinks_ he knows what he's doing OR he not only knows the practical of the job, but has read up on the theory. Be that cattle ranching, carpentry or cabinet work. depends which part of texas but mostly it is the first translation there is an old one that might not be related but could be beware the man of one book most agree that reading is a good thing but have to also take the nose out of the book and observe too |
steam bending
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 13:57:43 -0600, Markem
wrote: On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 11:42:35 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 09:55:27 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 1/17/2018 7:36 PM, wrote: On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 09:03:55 -0800, Electric Comet wrote: On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:39:09 -0800 pyotr filipivich wrote: Or in this case: how many boards did they wreck learning what was the "right amount"? rhetorical i know but it is wood so they still have failures just a reminder wood has no imperfections but only misuse or miscalculations or in other words incorrect expectations in its use Wood has no imperfections? I've certainly come across a crack or two. I've also come across hidden internal stress, which caused havoc when it decided to relieve itself. sentences have no imperfections but only misuse or miscalculations or in other words incorrect expectations of a keyboard His keyboard was fine (though missing caps and shift keys). His sentence was fine, too. His meaning sucked. i.e. he was wrong. pot....kettle OK. It is Pebcak problem. Those are hard to fix. Though it doesn't fix the disease, the chronic symptoms can be fixed with a plonk. |
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