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Default steam bending

at a medium scale furniture maker that did a lot of bending

the old guys did all the work by skill alone

in other words they had no formulas they just knew the right amount
of moisture needed before they tried the bend

well these old craftsman were about to retire and so they hired new
guys

the new guys had a hard time picking up that skill and decided to
measure everything

thought the old guys might balk but they encouraged the new guys and
were actually glad because they could retire sooner than they thought

the chair backs they make are very nice









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Electric Comet on Tue, 16 Jan 2018
10:58:44 -0800 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
at a medium scale furniture maker that did a lot of bending

the old guys did all the work by skill alone

in other words they had no formulas they just knew the right amount
of moisture needed before they tried the bend


"Good judgment comes from experience"
"Experience comes from bad judgment."

Or in this case: how many boards did they wreck learning what was
the "right amount"?

well these old craftsman were about to retire and so they hired new
guys

the new guys had a hard time picking up that skill and decided to
measure everything

thought the old guys might balk but they encouraged the new guys and
were actually glad because they could retire sooner than they thought


"If it looks stupid , but it works - it isn't stupid."

the chair backs they make are very nice

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
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On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 12:58:48 PM UTC-6, Electric Comet wrote:
at a medium scale furniture maker that did a lot of bending

the old guys did all the work by skill alone

in other words they had no formulas they just knew the right amount
of moisture needed before they tried the bend

well these old craftsman were about to retire and so they hired new
guys

the new guys had a hard time picking up that skill and decided to
measure everything

thought the old guys might balk but they encouraged the new guys and
were actually glad because they could retire sooner than they thought

the chair backs they make are very nice


What's the moisture content of the wood before steam bending? What's your drying process after? Someday I'd like to make a captain's chair.
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On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 10:38:41 PM UTC-5, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Electric Comet on Tue, 16 Jan 2018
10:58:44 -0800 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
at a medium scale furniture maker that did a lot of bending

the old guys did all the work by skill alone

in other words they had no formulas they just knew the right amount
of moisture needed before they tried the bend


"Good judgment comes from experience"
"Experience comes from bad judgment."

Or in this case: how many boards did they wreck learning what was
the "right amount"?

well these old craftsman were about to retire and so they hired new
guys

the new guys had a hard time picking up that skill and decided to
measure everything

thought the old guys might balk but they encouraged the new guys and
were actually glad because they could retire sooner than they thought


"If it looks stupid , but it works - it isn't stupid."


"It's only temporary - unless it works."


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On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 10:57:03 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 12:58:48 PM UTC-6, Electric Comet wrote:
at a medium scale furniture maker that did a lot of bending

the old guys did all the work by skill alone

in other words they had no formulas they just knew the right amount
of moisture needed before they tried the bend

well these old craftsman were about to retire and so they hired new
guys

the new guys had a hard time picking up that skill and decided to
measure everything

thought the old guys might balk but they encouraged the new guys and
were actually glad because they could retire sooner than they thought

the chair backs they make are very nice


What's the moisture content of the wood before steam bending? What's your drying process after? Someday I'd like to make a captain's chair.


A brief description can be found here -
https://www.leevalley.com/us/html/05F1501ie.pdf



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On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 03:59:57 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 10:38:41 PM UTC-5, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Electric Comet on Tue, 16 Jan 2018
10:58:44 -0800 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
at a medium scale furniture maker that did a lot of bending

the old guys did all the work by skill alone

in other words they had no formulas they just knew the right amount
of moisture needed before they tried the bend


"Good judgment comes from experience"
"Experience comes from bad judgment."

Or in this case: how many boards did they wreck learning what was
the "right amount"?

well these old craftsman were about to retire and so they hired new
guys

the new guys had a hard time picking up that skill and decided to
measure everything

thought the old guys might balk but they encouraged the new guys and
were actually glad because they could retire sooner than they thought


"If it looks stupid , but it works - it isn't stupid."


"It's only temporary - unless it works."

There is nothing so permanent as a temporary fix.
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On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 7:38:53 AM UTC-6, Jay Pique wrote:
On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 10:57:03 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 12:58:48 PM UTC-6, Electric Comet wrote:
at a medium scale furniture maker that did a lot of bending

the old guys did all the work by skill alone

in other words they had no formulas they just knew the right amount
of moisture needed before they tried the bend

well these old craftsman were about to retire and so they hired new
guys

the new guys had a hard time picking up that skill and decided to
measure everything

thought the old guys might balk but they encouraged the new guys and
were actually glad because they could retire sooner than they thought

the chair backs they make are very nice


What's the moisture content of the wood before steam bending? What's your drying process after? Someday I'd like to make a captain's chair.


A brief description can be found here -
https://www.leevalley.com/us/html/05F1501ie.pdf


This is great information. Thanks!
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On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:39:09 -0800
pyotr filipivich wrote:

Or in this case: how many boards did they wreck learning what
was the "right amount"?


rhetorical i know

but it is wood so they still have failures

just a reminder
wood has no imperfections but only misuse or miscalculations or in other
words incorrect expectations in its use










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On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:56:59 -0800 (PST)
Michael wrote:

What's the moisture content of the wood before steam bending? What's
your drying process after? Someday I'd like to make a captain's chair.


it depends but as you might guess that is a trade secret









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Electric Comet on Wed, 17 Jan 2018
09:03:55 -0800 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:39:09 -0800
pyotr filipivich wrote:

Or in this case: how many boards did they wreck learning what
was the "right amount"?


rhetorical i know

but it is wood so they still have failures


Well, yes. There is that while bit of the difference between the
apprentice, journeyman and the master. After a failure the apprentice
says "I thought it would work." The journeyman says "That doesn't
work." and the Master say "Oh yeah, that doesn't work."

just a reminder
wood has no imperfections but only misuse or miscalculations or in other
words incorrect expectations in its use


Yep.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?


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On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 09:03:55 -0800, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:39:09 -0800
pyotr filipivich wrote:

Or in this case: how many boards did they wreck learning what
was the "right amount"?


rhetorical i know

but it is wood so they still have failures

just a reminder
wood has no imperfections but only misuse or miscalculations or in other
words incorrect expectations in its use


Wood has no imperfections? I've certainly come across a crack or two.
I've also come across hidden internal stress, which caused havoc when
it decided to relieve itself.






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On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 8:36:53 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 09:03:55 -0800, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:39:09 -0800
pyotr filipivich wrote:

Or in this case: how many boards did they wreck learning what
was the "right amount"?


rhetorical i know

but it is wood so they still have failures

just a reminder
wood has no imperfections but only misuse or miscalculations or in other
words incorrect expectations in its use


Wood has no imperfections? I've certainly come across a crack or two.
I've also come across hidden internal stress, which caused havoc when
it decided to relieve itself.


Wait for it...

EC is going to say:

user should have accounted for stresses

crack should have been prepared for

wood was perfect user wasn't
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On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 16:24:28 -0800
pyotr filipivich wrote:

Well, yes. There is that while bit of the difference
between the apprentice, journeyman and the master. After a failure
the apprentice says "I thought it would work." The journeyman says
"That doesn't work." and the Master say "Oh yeah, that doesn't work."


not that it matters if we agree because that is boring anyway

the master can still make mistakes because wood growth is pretty
random although not completely because it has constraints but the
master definitely becomes better at pattern recognition

that pattern recognition will be hard to quantify for this
apprentice i mentioned and really can only come from experience

so if the apprentice only relies on quantifying by measuring weight
or moisture content or any other metric besides visual scan backed
by deep learning then the apprentice will never obtain master status

and the furniture company will get tired of too much scrap wood and
then they will wonder why this one guy seems to have amazing success
even though he did not even attend college but he knows wood








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Electric Comet on Thu, 18 Jan 2018
09:10:02 -0800 typed in rec.woodworking the following:

so if the apprentice only relies on quantifying by measuring weight
or moisture content or any other metric besides visual scan backed
by deep learning then the apprentice will never obtain master status

and the furniture company will get tired of too much scrap wood and
then they will wonder why this one guy seems to have amazing success
even though he did not even attend college but he knows wood


Yep.

"Schooling should not be mistaken for Education". Too often that
is thought of in terms of going to school or not. But it is equally
"obvious" that you can send two people through the same program, and
one will "get it" and the other won't. And by "get it" I don't mean
that they are "buzzword compliant" - to use a phrase - that is the
credentialed "schooled" person. By get it, they have integrated what
they learned in Class 101 with what they covered in 202, and life
experience, and, and, &c and usw. It is that "integration" which
leads to an "educated" individual - be it book learning or practical
skills.
I'm reminded of the Texas expression "He's read a book". Which
can be taken either way: he's read a book and _thinks_ he knows what
he's doing OR he not only knows the practical of the job, but has read
up on the theory. Be that cattle ranching, carpentry or cabinet
work.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
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On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 09:42:19 -0800
pyotr filipivich wrote:

I'm reminded of the Texas expression "He's read a book".
Which can be taken either way: he's read a book and _thinks_ he knows
what he's doing OR he not only knows the practical of the job, but
has read up on the theory. Be that cattle ranching, carpentry or
cabinet work.


depends which part of texas but mostly it is the first translation

there is an old one that might not be related but could be

beware the man of one book


most agree that reading is a good thing but have to also take the nose
out of the book and observe too










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