air stapler will do the job but the look is not so good

brad nailer might be the best way to go

has anyone here tried a palm nailer to do baseboard

On 12/19/2017 7:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

air stapler will do the job but the look is not so good

brad nailer might be the best way to go

has anyone here tried a palm nailer to do baseboard


I've used standard finish nails over the decades but have recently used
16-gauge brads from a gun more and more. They work fine as long as the wall
is straight, the trim is straight, and you hit solid substance inside the
wall -- they just don't have the ability to pull wayward parts together and
hold well. I'll even admit to using a grabby construction adhesive in some
projects and just counted on the brads to hold until it set. Just don't try
to take things apart later...

On Tue, 19 Dec 2017 16:10:57 -0800, Electric Comet
wrote:


air stapler will do the job but the look is not so good

brad nailer might be the best way to go

has anyone here tried a palm nailer to do baseboard

not a good move you ll get smiles on the wood

On 12/19/17 6:29 PM, John McGaw wrote:
On 12/19/2017 7:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

air stapler will do the job but the look is not so good

brad nailer might be the best way to go

has anyone here tried a palm nailer to do baseboard


I've used standard finish nails over the decades but have recently
used 16-gauge brads from a gun more and more. They work fine as long
as the wall is straight, the trim is straight, and you hit solid
substance inside the wall -- they just don't have the ability to
pull wayward parts together and hold well. I'll even admit to using
a grabby construction adhesive in some projects and just counted on
the brads to hold until it set. Just don't try to take things apart
later...


My guns shoot 16ga instead of 18ga. The thicker wire and bigger head
make for very good holding and pulling power.
As with manually driven finish nails, you still need good technique.
The same tricks you can use with manually hammering finish nails can
also be used with a nail gun.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

replying to Electric Comet, Iggy wrote:
I agree with MIKE. If the wall's wavy or I need to either really cinch a joint
or to bow-out a twist, I go with Finish Screws...just a little larger than
Finish Nails, but all of the benefits of screws.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/woodwo...rd-813075-.htm

On 12/19/2017 8:11 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 12/19/17 6:29 PM, John McGaw wrote:
On 12/19/2017 7:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

air stapler will do the job but the look is not so good

brad nailer might be the best way to go

has anyone here tried a palm nailer to do baseboard


I've used standard finish nails over the decades but have recently
used 16-gauge brads from a gun more and more. They work fine as long
as the wall is straight, the trim is straight, and you hit solid
substance inside the wall -- they just don't have the ability to
pull wayward parts together and hold well. I'll even admit to using
a grabby construction adhesive in some projects and just counted on
the brads to hold until it set. Just don't try to take things apart
later...


My guns shoot 16ga instead of 18ga.Â* The thicker wire and bigger head
make for very good holding and pulling power.
As with manually driven finish nails, you still need good technique.
The same tricks you can use with manually hammering finish nails can
also be used with a nail gun.


Shoot the nails in at slightly different angles, this prevents the wood
from being able to pull straight off the nails.

On 12/20/17 9:12 AM, Leon wrote:
On 12/19/2017 8:11 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 12/19/17 6:29 PM, John McGaw wrote:
On 12/19/2017 7:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

air stapler will do the job but the look is not so good

brad nailer might be the best way to go

has anyone here tried a palm nailer to do baseboard


I've used standard finish nails over the decades but have recently
used 16-gauge brads from a gun more and more. They work fine as long
as the wall is straight, the trim is straight, and you hit solid
substance inside the wall -- they just don't have the ability to
pull wayward parts together and hold well. I'll even admit to using
a grabby construction adhesive in some projects and just counted on
the brads to hold until it set. Just don't try to take things apart
later...


My guns shoot 16ga instead of 18ga.Â* The thicker wire and bigger head
make for very good holding and pulling power.
As with manually driven finish nails, you still need good technique.
The same tricks you can use with manually hammering finish nails can
also be used with a nail gun.


Shoot the nails in at slightly different angles,Â* this prevents the wood
from being able to pull straight off the nails.

That's one of the tricks! :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 09:16:37 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 12/20/17 9:12 AM, Leon wrote:
On 12/19/2017 8:11 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 12/19/17 6:29 PM, John McGaw wrote:
On 12/19/2017 7:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

air stapler will do the job but the look is not so good

brad nailer might be the best way to go

has anyone here tried a palm nailer to do baseboard


I've used standard finish nails over the decades but have recently
used 16-gauge brads from a gun more and more. They work fine as long
as the wall is straight, the trim is straight, and you hit solid
substance inside the wall -- they just don't have the ability to
pull wayward parts together and hold well. I'll even admit to using
a grabby construction adhesive in some projects and just counted on
the brads to hold until it set. Just don't try to take things apart
later...


My guns shoot 16ga instead of 18ga.* The thicker wire and bigger head
make for very good holding and pulling power.
As with manually driven finish nails, you still need good technique.
The same tricks you can use with manually hammering finish nails can
also be used with a nail gun.


Shoot the nails in at slightly different angles,* this prevents the wood
from being able to pull straight off the nails.

That's one of the tricks! :-)

Can you share more? Please?

On 12/21/17 2:54 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 09:16:37 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 12/20/17 9:12 AM, Leon wrote:
On 12/19/2017 8:11 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 12/19/17 6:29 PM, John McGaw wrote:
On 12/19/2017 7:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

air stapler will do the job but the look is not so good

brad nailer might be the best way to go

has anyone here tried a palm nailer to do baseboard


I've used standard finish nails over the decades but have recently
used 16-gauge brads from a gun more and more. They work fine as long
as the wall is straight, the trim is straight, and you hit solid
substance inside the wall -- they just don't have the ability to
pull wayward parts together and hold well. I'll even admit to using
a grabby construction adhesive in some projects and just counted on
the brads to hold until it set. Just don't try to take things apart
later...


My guns shoot 16ga instead of 18ga.Â* The thicker wire and bigger head
make for very good holding and pulling power.
As with manually driven finish nails, you still need good technique.
The same tricks you can use with manually hammering finish nails can
also be used with a nail gun.


Shoot the nails in at slightly different angles,Â* this prevents the wood
from being able to pull straight off the nails.

That's one of the tricks! :-)

Can you share more? Please?


To start off with the above... shooting two nails at angles to form an X
or V is also a way to attach trim to sheetrock where there is no stud
available.

As with manual hammer nailing, you can drive two or more nails close to
one another in order to pull a board closer to the surface to which it
is being attached. If you're putting trim on a wall that is bowed or
whatever, you drive one nail which holds the piece, then another close
to it which will push it a little closer, then drive another which
pushes it further. Usually, when you start this process, the head of
the first nail gets revealed above the face of the trim. You can then
use a nail-set with a hammer and manually nail each nail in until the
trim piece is flush. Do NOT use angled nailing during this process.
You can angle nail once it's flush to anchor it.

Nail perpendicular to the grain to avoid splitting. If it's possible to
see the grain orientation at the end of a board, try to nail across the
grain, instead of parallel to it.

Use a shim or other thing piece of wood to rest the nail gun tip on to
avoid marring the surface of the wood. This can also be used to leave
the nail proud of the surface for temporary nailing. The scrap wood
keep the nail from being countersunk. You break off the scrap leaving a
nail head which can be pulled. I do this a lot when hanging crown to
hold a long section up on the wall, while nailing one end. Once the end
is secured, I move down and pull the temporary nail to finish the rest.
A few times, I've actually hit the right spot with the temp nail and
didn't have to take it out. :-)

Orient the nail to prevent boomeranging. Every flat wire brad nail had
a wide and narrow side. In hardwoods, they have a tendency to curve
left or right (often traveling with any curve in the grain) and turn
90degrees or more. I've seen 2-1/2" brads do a complete 180 and punch
out the same side they went in. In combination with the above tip about
shooting across the grain, you should try to have the wide side of the
nail perpendicular to the grain. Like a thin piece of wood or metal,
it's easier to bend on the wide side.

When working with very hard woods like white oak, you can lubricate nail
gun nails just like separate manually driven nails. You can lube an
entire clip with wax or spray or even the graphite from your pencil
lead. A little bit goes a long way.

Learn how to use the depth adjustment on your nailer. Use correct air
pressure.
When possible, shoot a few in scrap pieces to fine tune the settings.

I'm sure there are others I don't think about until I'm doing it. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

-MIKE-

Great post! Lots of good information there. Not much to improve on there, but would like to add a couple more thoughts.

One of the the methods I change about 20 or more years ago is how I do scarf joints. First, I don't cut them at 45 degrees. When we went from soft pine to hard pine, the 45s were harder to make with their feathered edges. Inconsistencies in molding thickness made it hard to get a consistent joint. For production work, the home stores and now almost all lumber yards carry that super hard, brittle, finger jointed crap that can be different not only in thickness, but in profile. Enter the 30 degree joint.

Don't know why it took me so long to start doing that with trim as when I was a house framer we got rough cedar delivered for trims, fascia, etc., that was all different widths. That was my solution.

I use 30 degrees on all scarf joints, including crown molding. If one side of your joint is a little thinner, slip it under the adjoining piece and pull it back until it matches. Never looks right with a 45, but closer to a box joint doesn't reflect the difference as much.

I never nail through the joint itself on trims whether it is a 90 degree miter or a scarf. Trim wood is too brittle and splits too easily these days. On a scarf joint I only nail the lap side, and then away from the joint as far as possible. When dealing with a tougher install due to irregular walls, I mark the studs at the joints so I can catch a stud with a nail that is put in at an angle, but away from the joint.

If I am still doubtful of joint integrity and its ability to hold, I usually have a cartridge of PL400 in the caulk gun. A couple of "Hershey Kisses" on each side of the joint and an X nail pattern will certainly secure it. I keep a cartridge of PL400 around when I am trimming as on small pieces I don't nail. Little 2,3,4 inch pieces, or pieces that are hard to nail are simply glued in. Since me or my company is always doing the painting, I appreciate not having to fill fiddly little pieces that have cracked or have nail holes I can't easily fill to make them go away.

If there is no carpet, or if I am putting on a shoe molding, when I put on base I shoot the bottom of the trim straight into the sole plate about 1/2" above the floor (no caulk/putty), and shoot into the studs using my 18ga brad nailer with 2" brads. If the studs are on 24" centers I shoot three brads per stud, if 16" o.c. then only two. If I am putting on thicker trim like the 3/4"X8" that is popular I use my 16ga straight trim gun or my 15ga angle trim gun that shoot the equivalent of an 8d. Again, since me or mine are usually painting as well, I like as few and as small of nail holes as I can get.

Personally, I don't see any reason to hand nail unless it is a piece or so. The wood we get today is so poor that it splits like crazy, and so when I hand nail I drill pilot holes with the trim on the saw horses before nailing. OTOH, you can get a pretty decent 18ga brad gun from Harbor Freight from time to time for only $15. Brad nailing sure helps keep the time spent and the frustration of broken trim down.

Robert


I don't spend much time straightening my baseboard installs. The reason there are gaps, waves, and snaky appearance is that the sheet rockers have usually left humps in their joints. The walls are pretty straight, but the tape/float joints are a fail. So before starting, I check for the humps. A long wall, I use a string to check, a short one I eyeball it. I am glad to push and nail 1/8", but not much more. If it is too much, then the waviness of the wall is not reflected onto the trim and is more noticeable than ever. So I cut the pieces as long as I can, and if I can't put on a run in one piece, I go from center of the hump to center of the next hump. If I have a 1/4" gap between humps, I stick a long thin wedge in behind the trim to keep me 1/8" from the wall (half the gap from the wall) and secure it. I pull my wedge and the caulk from painting will hide the 1/8" gap that remains.

On 12/23/17 11:58 PM, wrote:
-MIKE-

Great post! Lots of good information there. Not much to improve on
there, but would like to add a couple more thoughts.

One of the the methods I change about 20 or more years ago is how I
do scarf joints. First, I don't cut them at 45 degrees. When we
went from soft pine to hard pine, the 45s were harder to make with
their feathered edges. Inconsistencies in molding thickness made it
hard to get a consistent joint. For production work, the home
stores and now almost all lumber yards carry that super hard,
brittle, finger jointed crap that can be different not only in
thickness, but in profile. Enter the 30 degree joint.


I'm not sure when or why I went to 30degree scarfs, but I did a long
time ago, mostly for the same reasons you mention. 30 is easier to cut
and line up.
Another reason for 30 over 45 is that a 30 degree miter will shrink less
so the joint will be less noticeable when it opens.


Don't know why it took me so long to start doing that with trim as
when I was a house framer we got rough cedar delivered for trims,
fascia, etc., that was all different widths. That was my solution.

I use 30 degrees on all scarf joints, including crown molding. If
one side of your joint is a little thinner, slip it under the
adjoining piece and pull it back until it matches. Never looks right
with a 45, but closer to a box joint doesn't reflect the difference
as much.

I never nail through the joint itself on trims whether it is a 90
degree miter or a scarf. Trim wood is too brittle and splits too
easily these days. On a scarf joint I only nail the lap side, and
then away from the joint as far as possible. When dealing with a
tougher install due to irregular walls, I mark the studs at the
joints so I can catch a stud with a nail that is put in at an angle,
but away from the joint.


I got in the habit of not nailing the underneath piece, too, because
nailing it always seems to pull it too far against the wall on one side
making it difficult to get a good seem. This usually happens at the
bottom of base where the trim wants to pull against the sole plate at
the sheetrock gap. Yeah, you could shim, but then that might push the
bottom out and you have the same problem.


If I am still doubtful of joint integrity and its ability to hold, I
usually have a cartridge of PL400 in the caulk gun. A couple of
"Hershey Kisses" on each side of the joint and an X nail pattern
will certainly secure it. I keep a cartridge of PL400 around when I
am trimming as on small pieces I don't nail. Little 2,3,4 inch
pieces, or pieces that are hard to nail are simply glued in. Since me
or my company is always doing the painting, I appreciate not having
to fill fiddly little pieces that have cracked or have nail holes I
can't easily fill to make them go away.


I used to use plain old hot glue for joints. I switched to CA glue a
few years back, but those joints can pop loose after curing, when you
shoot them.
I saw this product at the last remodeling show and I'm thinking of
getting it and switching to it for most trim jobs.
https://www.fastenmaster.com/videos/flex-hot-melt-construction-adhesive.html
It's VERY impressive and useful. Not cheap, but I think it would pay
for itself on the first job.


If there is no carpet, or if I am putting on a shoe molding, when I
put on base I shoot the bottom of the trim straight into the sole
plate about 1/2" above the floor (no caulk/putty), and shoot into
the studs using my 18ga brad nailer with 2" brads. If the studs are
on 24" centers I shoot three brads per stud, if 16" o.c. then only
two. If I am putting on thicker trim like the 3/4"X8" that is popular
I use my 16ga straight trim gun or my 15ga angle trim gun that shoot
the equivalent of an 8d. Again, since me or mine are usually
painting as well, I like as few and as small of nail holes as I can
get.

Personally, I don't see any reason to hand nail unless it is a piece
or so. The wood we get today is so poor that it splits like crazy,
and so when I hand nail I drill pilot holes with the trim on the saw
horses before nailing. OTOH, you can get a pretty decent 18ga brad
gun from Harbor Freight from time to time for only $15. Brad nailing
sure helps keep the time spent and the frustration of broken trim
down.

Robert


I probably should get an 18ga nailer.... wait a sec.
Hilarious! I am not kidding... as I was typing that sentence, I
remembered that I have a brand new Porter Cable nailer that came "free"
with the little pancake compressor I got for $99 a few years back. I
just went out to the shop to what gauge it is and sure enough, it's an
18ga. It's still wrapped in the cardboard sleeve.

It's amazing the difference in size between 16ga and 18ga. I used an
18ga at a friends house, helping him with a project. I think he got the
same deal in Bostich or something.
You wouldn't think it's that much, but you're right, the holes are much
smaller for putty and they don't split as much.

Merry Christmas!

--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 15:40:47 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 12/21/17 2:54 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 09:16:37 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 12/20/17 9:12 AM, Leon wrote:
On 12/19/2017 8:11 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 12/19/17 6:29 PM, John McGaw wrote:
On 12/19/2017 7:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

air stapler will do the job but the look is not so good

brad nailer might be the best way to go

has anyone here tried a palm nailer to do baseboard


I've used standard finish nails over the decades but have recently
used 16-gauge brads from a gun more and more. They work fine as long
as the wall is straight, the trim is straight, and you hit solid
substance inside the wall -- they just don't have the ability to
pull wayward parts together and hold well. I'll even admit to using
a grabby construction adhesive in some projects and just counted on
the brads to hold until it set. Just don't try to take things apart
later...


My guns shoot 16ga instead of 18ga.* The thicker wire and bigger head
make for very good holding and pulling power.
As with manually driven finish nails, you still need good technique.
The same tricks you can use with manually hammering finish nails can
also be used with a nail gun.


Shoot the nails in at slightly different angles,* this prevents the wood
from being able to pull straight off the nails.

That's one of the tricks! :-)

Can you share more? Please?


To start off with the above... shooting two nails at angles to form an X
or V is also a way to attach trim to sheetrock where there is no stud
available.

As with manual hammer nailing, you can drive two or more nails close to
one another in order to pull a board closer to the surface to which it
is being attached. If you're putting trim on a wall that is bowed or
whatever, you drive one nail which holds the piece, then another close
to it which will push it a little closer, then drive another which
pushes it further. Usually, when you start this process, the head of
the first nail gets revealed above the face of the trim. You can then
use a nail-set with a hammer and manually nail each nail in until the
trim piece is flush. Do NOT use angled nailing during this process.
You can angle nail once it's flush to anchor it.

Nail perpendicular to the grain to avoid splitting. If it's possible to
see the grain orientation at the end of a board, try to nail across the
grain, instead of parallel to it.

Use a shim or other thing piece of wood to rest the nail gun tip on to
avoid marring the surface of the wood. This can also be used to leave
the nail proud of the surface for temporary nailing. The scrap wood
keep the nail from being countersunk. You break off the scrap leaving a
nail head which can be pulled. I do this a lot when hanging crown to
hold a long section up on the wall, while nailing one end. Once the end
is secured, I move down and pull the temporary nail to finish the rest.
A few times, I've actually hit the right spot with the temp nail and
didn't have to take it out. :-)

Orient the nail to prevent boomeranging. Every flat wire brad nail had
a wide and narrow side. In hardwoods, they have a tendency to curve
left or right (often traveling with any curve in the grain) and turn
90degrees or more. I've seen 2-1/2" brads do a complete 180 and punch
out the same side they went in. In combination with the above tip about
shooting across the grain, you should try to have the wide side of the
nail perpendicular to the grain. Like a thin piece of wood or metal,
it's easier to bend on the wide side.

When working with very hard woods like white oak, you can lubricate nail
gun nails just like separate manually driven nails. You can lube an
entire clip with wax or spray or even the graphite from your pencil
lead. A little bit goes a long way.

Learn how to use the depth adjustment on your nailer. Use correct air
pressure.
When possible, shoot a few in scrap pieces to fine tune the settings.

I'm sure there are others I don't think about until I'm doing it. :-)

Thank you big time. I'll more than likely be using at least a couple
within a few weeks, I already see some that could have helped me in
the past.

Merry Christmas!

A couple things I have not seen mentioned. SWMBO and I used to block out
Thanksgiving week for a major room renovation...paint pergo crown moulding, new
baseboards, tile, etc. We've upgraded everything except the kitchen now.

We'd pull up flooring, and use 1.5 inch blue painter tape to mark stud positions
on the wall. We prefinished the new baseboards or crown with stain/varnish or
paint, depending on the room. We also used the 30 degree angle to join pieces.

When installing the base, we'd tear a bunch of 2 inch or so pieces of 1/2 blue
painters tape, stick those on the base centered on the blue tape to show us
where the stud was, and hit it with an 18 or 15 ga brad/nail in an X pattern
through the tape. 18 worked almost every time for us and is a smaller hole to
hide.

Once a wall was done, I'd start measuring for the next wall and SWMBO came along
and topped up the nail holes with the tape still in place. White spackle for
white base, and wax stick for stain. Let the spackle dry and pull off the tape
and you are done. No sanding or touch up required. Works for crown too.

18 or even 23 ga is fine for tacking shoe to the base. Use blue tape for 18 and
fill holes as above. 23 (love my Grex) just disappears, even with white paint.
My old eyes may be part of that though.



On Tue, 19 Dec 2017 16:10:57 -0800, Electric Comet
wrote:


air stapler will do the job but the look is not so good

brad nailer might be the best way to go

has anyone here tried a palm nailer to do baseboard