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Old August 10th 17, 01:40 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Repair/reinforcement of double pedestal desk

Continuing my conservative approach...

It's a production piece, probably not expensive, no significant provenance either of maker or owners (*other than present owner?), but seems to be well made. It has a simple, not complicated, exterior design.... quaint in overall appearance. It's approaching 100 yrs old. There are likely very few of these particular style desk still in existence.

There's the maxim "Primum nil nocere", do no harm. I vote to, at least, give this some consideration with your modifications, if possible.

Sonny

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Old August 10th 17, 05:03 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Repair/reinforcement of double pedestal desk

Sonny wrote:

There's the maxim "Primum nil nocere", do no harm. I vote to,
at least, give this some consideration with your modifications, if possible.


What are your thoughts on using hide glue?
Epoxy seems counter to the principle....

I agree the piece is nice enough to be spared wanton hackery. It's also
small enough to be used in a home.

There little doubt that drilling holes in the top is a bad idea, a false
top a much better one. Whether I should brace the bottom is less clear, but
if I do and use hide glue to fasten the brace it can be removed.

If I don't brace the bottom, overload the desk and other joints start
to pop then I have a somewhat larger mess on my hands.

With my thanks!

bob prohaska

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Old August 10th 17, 06:58 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Repair/reinforcement of double pedestal desk

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 11:07:34 AM UTC-5, bob prohaska wrote:

What are your thoughts on using hide glue?
Epoxy seems counter to the principle....


Hide glue is fine. If you can open the joint enough to clean it well, then reapplication of hide glue will do just fine. If you can't clean the joint well enough, epoxy might be your best adhesive option for a "dirty" joint, less than perfect(?) joint.


I agree the piece is nice enough to be spared wanton hackery. It's also
small enough to be used in a home.

There little doubt that drilling holes in the top is a bad idea, a false
top a much better one. Whether I should brace the bottom is less clear, but
if I do and use hide glue to fasten the brace it can be removed.


The idea of a mobile base: If you can make a sufficient mobile base, such that to fit within the desk's legs, appropriately, and *all (conservation of the original (legs, structure) and maintain a solid support for your lathe)... and *all remain well, then you could possibly have the best of both worlds. I'm not sure what mobile base design might be best for your desk, that's why I mentioned other guys' having made mobile bases, that if a mobile base is an option, they could possibly give you some ideas of constructing one.

Sometimes when I'm making stuff, I end up adding to the original "work order".... create more work for myself, as a project progresses. A bad habit that I'm displaying, here. And now, I'm putting the burden of the proposed modification/design/construction, of the suggested mobile base option, on the other guys, here.

I'm out on that limb, now, and not quite sure how to real myself back in..... without some help.

I, simply, like old/older pieces and I get excited about preserving them, in some fashion.

And I'm about to abandon you, as to any follow-up with *assistance. I'm leaving for vacation, Saturday, so I won't be here to comment or encourage you, until September. But I suppose you'll do a good repair and modification job and keep the integrity of the desk as best intact, as you can.

Sonny
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Old August 11th 17, 12:38 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Repair/reinforcement of double pedestal desk

Sonny wrote:

Hide glue is fine. If you can open the joint enough to clean it well, then reapplication of hide glue will do just fine. If you can't clean the joint well enough, epoxy might be your best adhesive option for a "dirty" joint, less than perfect(?) joint.


This has me confused: I thought one point of hide glue is that it sticks
to itself, so can be reapplied and reassembled. I thought it was synthetic
glue that had to be cleaned off.

Do I have the story backwards?

And I'm about to abandon you, as to any follow-up with *assistance. I'm leaving for vacation, Saturday, so I won't be here to comment or encourage you, until September. But I suppose you'll do a good repair and modification job and keep the integrity of the desk as best intact, as you can.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, I hope it's justified!

bob prohaska

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Old August 11th 17, 03:29 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Repair/reinforcement of double pedestal desk

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 6:42:55 PM UTC-5, bob prohaska wrote:


This has me confused: I thought one point of hide glue is that it sticks
to itself, so can be reapplied and reassembled.


Correct. But if the joint has any other debris (dirt, sawdust, powder post beetle dust, etc.), clean it out if you can, then use hide glue. I can't see inside the joint as well as you, to see if there is any abnormal junk in the joint. If there is something abnormal in there, that can't be removed, then epoxy might be the better option for an adhesive.

As for as cleaning those drips, shown in pic "fracture full length", at first I thought that was a panel (you had mentioned loose panels). I thought to add a long block, along the *panel length, to help with that attachment.. For the addition of a block, there, I meant to suggest removing the drips for the block to sit flat on the *panel.

Sonny


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Old August 11th 17, 10:36 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Repair/reinforcement of double pedestal desk

Sonny wrote:
On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 6:42:55 PM UTC-5, bob prohaska wrote:


This has me confused: I thought one point of hide glue is that it sticks
to itself, so can be reapplied and reassembled.


Correct. But if the joint has any other debris (dirt, sawdust, powder
post beetle dust, etc.), clean it out if you can, then use hide glue.


Ok, that's a relief. The joint is clean end-to-end.

I now have to decide what glue to use and order it. Nothing seems available
at local retail.

Have a good vacation, and thank you!

bob prohaska

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Old August 12th 17, 08:17 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Repair/reinforcement of double pedestal desk

On 8/11/2017 4:36 PM, bob prohaska wrote:
Sonny wrote:
On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 6:42:55 PM UTC-5, bob prohaska wrote:


This has me confused: I thought one point of hide glue is that it sticks
to itself, so can be reapplied and reassembled.


Correct. But if the joint has any other debris (dirt, sawdust, powder
post beetle dust, etc.), clean it out if you can, then use hide glue.


Ok, that's a relief. The joint is clean end-to-end.

I now have to decide what glue to use and order it. Nothing seems available
at local retail.

Have a good vacation, and thank you!

bob prohaska


Keep in mind also that if the joint is cleaned out beyond snug, you make
the tenon a touch smaller or the mortise a touch larger, you will want
to shim to fill the cavity. Few glues have a gap filling feature that
is strong.
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Old August 12th 17, 11:16 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Repair/reinforcement of double pedestal desk

Leon [email protected] wrote:

Keep in mind also that if the joint is cleaned out beyond snug, you make
the tenon a touch smaller or the mortise a touch larger, you will want
to shim to fill the cavity. Few glues have a gap filling feature that
is strong.


The fit seems quite good; No material seems to have been lost, it was
a clean fracture through the glue, apparently. I'd be hard pressed to
improve it.

A local art supply shop offered to order a half pound of rabbit glue,
which is hard to resist, both for price and the fact that I'm fixing
a rabbet joint 8-) It turns out there's no separate tenon in the cross
members, they are milled to match the edge of the center panel.

The stuff is sold as sizing for painter's canvas, but from what I've
read most people seem to consider it a reasonably good glue, somewhat
less brittle than cabinetmaking hide glue. I'll make a few test joints
before using it for keeps.

If anybody thinks this is a gross folly please warn me.

Thanks for reading!

bob prohaska

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Old August 13th 17, 01:55 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Repair/reinforcement of double pedestal desk

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 3:20:17 PM UTC-7, bob prohaska wrote:
Leon [email protected] wrote:

Keep in mind also that if the joint is cleaned out beyond snug, you make
the tenon a touch smaller or the mortise a touch larger, you will want
to shim t...


The fit seems quite good; No material seems to have been lost, it was
a clean fracture through the glue, apparently. I'd be hard pressed to
improve it.


A local art supply shop offered to order a half pound of rabbit glue,


Yeah, that or hide glue is the best solution, because on this vintage of furniture,
it's gonna stick even if the original (also hide glue) adhesive isn't all cleaned out.

Beware, though, it's usually a kind of hot-melt glue, you'll need a
glue pot and hotplate and have to assemble before it hardens.

If one joint has gone brittle and failed, perhaps others are brittle but
have not yet failed.
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Old August 13th 17, 04:21 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Repair/reinforcement of double pedestal desk

whit3rd wrote:

Beware, though, it's usually a kind of hot-melt glue, you'll need a
glue pot and hotplate and have to assemble before it hardens.

Since it's only one joint I'll try a hot plate and water bath with
a thermometer. A few test joints on scrap wood ought to provide
a sense of how it handles. I'm near Sacramento, CA, so keeping things
warm is easy, just put them in the sun. The trick then is sticking the
joint before _I_ melt 8-)

If one joint has gone brittle and failed, perhaps others are brittle but
have not yet failed.


That's a reasonable concern. Far as I can tell all the other joints in
the piece are sound. The one that failed most likely broke when somebody
skidded the desk and snagged the leg; there's considerable scuff damage
to the feet.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska



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