On 8/1/2017 11:50 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 1, 2017 at 8:16:52 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

I don't want to ship a bad bulb purchased at HD to the Phillips assessment location and have them issue a store credit, then go back to the store to buy a bulb, etc. When I had a couple of Phillips bulbs go bad in 6 months after installation and Phillips told me that I had to ship them bulbs to them for inspection I haven't put a Phillips product in since.

Robert


FWIW, the Home Depot brand bulbs have been replaced for me on a couple
of occasions. They never wanted them back, they simply shipped me a new
one.

I believe you. But as a contractor, cost me money once with no effort to work out a good solution, and I am finished with you.

Phillips bulbs from HD has joined Olympic paints, GAF shingles (screwed one of my clients very badly), Thompson's Water Seal and a couple of others that I won't use again.

Robert


Understood and I seriously doubt that you, as a contractor, waiting on a
replacement, would be cost effective. You would have to have inventory.

On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 17:06:27 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 8/1/2017 4:50 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 15:11:46 -0400, woodchucker
wrote:

On 7/31/2017 3:34 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"G Ross" wrote in message news
Keith Nuttle wrote:
I am posting this to the woodworking group because wood workers know a
lot about everything. ;-)

I am a volunteer at church and one of things that I do is change the
florescent lights when they die. Most of the fixtures are four tube
fixtures.

Is there a test to tell if a Florescent light tube is bad and needs to
be replaced, or the light is not working because its companion is dead?

I have struggled with this. Sometimes when one of the tubes is replaced
the other seems to start working. So it would be nice to test the tube
to see if even though working it should be replaced.


In the hospital where I used to work, if a bulb in a fixture went out
they replaced all 4 bulbs. Since they always did that, when one went
out all the others were the same age and likely to go before long.
Apparently this practice was cost effective for them. But then, their
maintenance crew was being paid.

I always replace just the bad one. In fact, did that today.

***************

I have a bunch of 8' cans hanging from chains in my shop. They hold two
tubes. When I notice one acting flakey I just replace both of them.
Some of my 8 footers are 10 years old, and I have yet to replace a
ballast. All of the cans are ten years old.

When I was a kid one of my chores was replacing the tubes in the 4' cans
above the drop ceiling in our family grocery store. I also had to
replace a number of ballasts over the years. One day I asked my dad if
he thought the bulbs being bad were affecting the ballasts. He made a
couple phone calls and said lets try just replacing all the bulbs on a
can the instant one starts acting up and see. I replaced one or two
ballasts over the next year, and then not another one until the day I
left home.

I don't know how many ballasts my dad replaced after I left home, but...

A few years ago my dad stated with authority that if a tube starts
acting you should just replace all the tubes on the can as your ballasts
will last longer if you do. I'm not sure if he remembers our
conversation from over 35 years ago, but I do.

I've never heard or read an "authority" state that to be the case, but I
pretty much believe it. Given what a ballast costs I think its cheaper
to just replace all the tubes the instant one tube starts to flicker or
act flakey. For somebody who might need to hire an electrician the cost
of a bad ballast is much more.



Don't use Phillips bulbs!!! POS.
I just replaced a sylvania that was years, old, and a phillips that was
months old. They were in troffers in the basement, 2 adjacent troffers.

I've got to find Sylvnia, or GE bulbs. I won't do another case of
Phillips. All the crappy Phillips died in months, I had 2 cases fail in
a relatively short time. A total waste of money.
All the current production stuff seams to be crap.

Agreed, at least the ones you find at the big boxes.
I get exacvtly the same crap from my electrical supply houses. Might
have different brand names, but "same ****, different pile" applies.

On Tue, 01 Aug 2017 10:36:08 -0400, Casper
wrote:

This is old news and they are called Dark Absorbers.

The solid state versions are known as Dark Emitting Axial Diodes.

Just Wondering was heard to mutter:

On 7/31/2017 3:53 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Monday, July 31, 2017 at 12:59:50 PM UTC-7, Leon wrote:

I was once told be a lighting salesman that the failing tubes can cause
a ballast to go bad. Cheaper to replace all tubes, maybe.

Replacing all tubes, if it's at all difficult to reach the fixture, is certainly
a good idea (won't save much money trying to get the last ten percent
of life out of a tube that's turning dark). The 'cause a ballast to go bad'
is probably obsolete, the old iron ballasts would sometimes overheat when
a tube went out.

The reason, is that the tube going out could result in accidental rectification of
the current (and magnetize/saturate/overheat the ballast).

New (electronic) ballasts don't do that.

BELL LAB PROVES EXISTENCE OF DARK SUCKERS!
For years it has been believed that electric bulbs emitted light.
However, recent information from Bell Labs has proven otherwise.
Electric bulbs don't emit light; they suck dark. Thus they now call
these bulbs dark suckers. The dark sucker theory, according to a
spokesman from the Labs, proves the existence of dark, that dark has
mass heavier than that of light, and that dark is faster than light.

The basis of the dark sucker theory is that electric bulbs suck dark.
Take for example the dark suckers in the room where you are. There is
less dark right next to them than there is elsewhere. The larger the
dark sucker, the greater its capacity to suck dark. Dark suckers in a
parking lot have a much greater capacity than the ones in this room.

As with all things, dark suckers don't last forever. Once they are full
of dark, they can no longer suck. This is proven by the black spot on a
full dark sucker. A new candle has a white wick. You will notice that
after the first use, the wick turns black, representing all the dark
which has been sucked into it. If you hold a pencil next to the wick of
an operating candle, the tip will turn black because it got in the path
of the dark flowing into the candle. Unfortunately, these primitive dark
suckers have a very limited range.

There are also portable dark suckers. The bulbs in these can't handle
all of the dark by themselves, and must be aided by a dark storage unit.
When the dark storage unit is full, it must be either emptied or
replaced before the portable dark sucker can operate again.

Dark has mass. When dark goes into a dark sucker, friction from this
mass generates heat. Thus it is not wise to touch an operating dark
sucker. Candles present a special problem, as the dark must travel in
the solid wick instead of through glass. This generates a great amount
of heat. Thus it can be very dangerous to touch an operating candle.

Dark is also heavier than light. If you swim deeper and deeper, you
notice it gets darker and darker. When you reach a depth of
approximately fifty feet, you are in total darkness. This is because the
heavier dark sinks to the bottom of the lake and the ligher light floats
to the top.

The immense power of dark can be utilized to a man's advantage. We can
collect the dark that has settled to the bottom of lakes and push it
through turbines, which generates electricity and helps push it to the
ocean where it may be safely stored. Prior to turbines, it was much more
difficult to get dark from rivers and lakes to the ocean. The Indians
recognized this problem and tried to solve it. When on a river in a
canoe traveling in the same direction as the flow of dark, they paddled
slowly, so as not to stop the flow of dark, but when they traveled
against the flow of dark, they paddled quickly so as to help push the
dark along its way.

Finally, we must prove that dark is faster than light. If you stand in
an illuminated room in front of a closed, dark closet, then slowly open
the door, you would see the light slowly enter the closet, but since the
dark is so fast, you would not be able to see the dark leave the closet.

In conclusion, Bell Labs stated that dark suckers make all our lives
much easier. So the next time you look at an electric light bulb,
remember that it is indeed a dark sucker.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 23:02:16 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 14:12:41 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

I am posting this to the woodworking group because wood workers know a
lot about everything. ;-)

I am a volunteer at church and one of things that I do is change the
florescent lights when they die. Most of the fixtures are four tube
fixtures.

Is there a test to tell if a Florescent light tube is bad and needs to
be replaced, or the light is not working because its companion is dead?

I have struggled with this. Sometimes when one of the tubes is replaced
the other seems to start working. So it would be nice to test the tube
to see if even though working it should be replaced.
I would recommend that when you replace one tube in a fixture, you
replace all the others, as well.
Also, clean the fixture.


Be sure to use a light rag or towel.

Use a dark one to see if you've let any light leak out.

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 23:02:16 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 14:12:41 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

I am posting this to the woodworking group because wood workers know a
lot about everything. ;-)

I am a volunteer at church and one of things that I do is change the
florescent lights when they die. Most of the fixtures are four tube
fixtures.

Is there a test to tell if a Florescent light tube is bad and needs to
be replaced, or the light is not working because its companion is dead?

I have struggled with this. Sometimes when one of the tubes is replaced
the other seems to start working. So it would be nice to test the tube
to see if even though working it should be replaced.
I would recommend that when you replace one tube in a fixture, you
replace all the others, as well.
Also, clean the fixture.

Be sure to use a light rag or towel.
Use a dark one to see if you've let any light leak out.

A dark light rag? The "Black and White Rag" was composed in 1908. I'm
not sure what it was composed of.. Say the secret word and you'll win
$500. ; )

On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 23:10:31 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 23:02:16 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 14:12:41 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

I am posting this to the woodworking group because wood workers know a
lot about everything. ;-)

I am a volunteer at church and one of things that I do is change the
florescent lights when they die. Most of the fixtures are four tube
fixtures.

Is there a test to tell if a Florescent light tube is bad and needs to
be replaced, or the light is not working because its companion is dead?

I have struggled with this. Sometimes when one of the tubes is replaced
the other seems to start working. So it would be nice to test the tube
to see if even though working it should be replaced.
I would recommend that when you replace one tube in a fixture, you
replace all the others, as well.
Also, clean the fixture.

Be sure to use a light rag or towel.
Use a dark one to see if you've let any light leak out.

A dark light rag? The "Black and White Rag" was composed in 1908. I'm
not sure what it was composed of.. Say the secret word and you'll win
$500. ; )

And the winner at the checkered flags is ....

On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 14:12:41 -0400
Keith Nuttle wrote:

Is there a test to tell if a Florescent light tube is bad and needs
to be replaced, or the light is not working because its companion is
dead?

replace it with a known good one then repeat

but why not replace with led lights

Markem wrote:
On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 23:10:31 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 23:02:16 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 14:12:41 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

I am posting this to the woodworking group because wood workers know a
lot about everything. ;-)

I am a volunteer at church and one of things that I do is change the
florescent lights when they die. Most of the fixtures are four tube
fixtures.

Is there a test to tell if a Florescent light tube is bad and needs to
be replaced, or the light is not working because its companion is dead?

I have struggled with this. Sometimes when one of the tubes is replaced
the other seems to start working. So it would be nice to test the tube
to see if even though working it should be replaced.
I would recommend that when you replace one tube in a fixture, you
replace all the others, as well.
Also, clean the fixture.

Be sure to use a light rag or towel.
Use a dark one to see if you've let any light leak out.
A dark light rag? The "Black and White Rag" was composed in 1908. I'm
not sure what it was composed of.. Say the secret word and you'll win
$500. ; )
And the winner at the checkered flags is ....

Waving his arms with the rest of the light brigade...

On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 23:10:31 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 23:02:16 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 14:12:41 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

I am posting this to the woodworking group because wood workers know a
lot about everything. ;-)

I am a volunteer at church and one of things that I do is change the
florescent lights when they die. Most of the fixtures are four tube
fixtures.

Is there a test to tell if a Florescent light tube is bad and needs to
be replaced, or the light is not working because its companion is dead?

I have struggled with this. Sometimes when one of the tubes is replaced
the other seems to start working. So it would be nice to test the tube
to see if even though working it should be replaced.
I would recommend that when you replace one tube in a fixture, you
replace all the others, as well.
Also, clean the fixture.

Be sure to use a light rag or towel.
Use a dark one to see if you've let any light leak out.

A dark light rag?

Black silk.

The "Black and White Rag" was composed in 1908. I'm
not sure what it was composed of..

Black notes on white rag, probably.

Say the secret word and you'll win $500. ; )

Quack.

On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 16:59:20 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Markem wrote:
On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 23:10:31 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 23:02:16 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 14:12:41 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

I am posting this to the woodworking group because wood workers know a
lot about everything. ;-)

I am a volunteer at church and one of things that I do is change the
florescent lights when they die. Most of the fixtures are four tube
fixtures.

Is there a test to tell if a Florescent light tube is bad and needs to
be replaced, or the light is not working because its companion is dead?

I have struggled with this. Sometimes when one of the tubes is replaced
the other seems to start working. So it would be nice to test the tube
to see if even though working it should be replaced.
I would recommend that when you replace one tube in a fixture, you
replace all the others, as well.
Also, clean the fixture.

Be sure to use a light rag or towel.
Use a dark one to see if you've let any light leak out.
A dark light rag? The "Black and White Rag" was composed in 1908. I'm
not sure what it was composed of.. Say the secret word and you'll win
$500. ; )
And the winner at the checkered flags is ....

Waving his arms with the rest of the light brigade...

Did the light brigade have heavy armor?

On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 9:31:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 16:59:20 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Markem wrote:
On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 23:10:31 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 23:02:16 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 14:12:41 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

I am posting this to the woodworking group because wood workers know a
lot about everything. ;-)

I am a volunteer at church and one of things that I do is change the
florescent lights when they die. Most of the fixtures are four tube
fixtures.

Is there a test to tell if a Florescent light tube is bad and needs to
be replaced, or the light is not working because its companion is dead?

I have struggled with this. Sometimes when one of the tubes is replaced
the other seems to start working. So it would be nice to test the tube
to see if even though working it should be replaced.
I would recommend that when you replace one tube in a fixture, you
replace all the others, as well.
Also, clean the fixture.

Be sure to use a light rag or towel.
Use a dark one to see if you've let any light leak out.
A dark light rag? The "Black and White Rag" was composed in 1908. I'm
not sure what it was composed of.. Say the secret word and you'll win
$500. ; )
And the winner at the checkered flags is ....

Waving his arms with the rest of the light brigade...

Did the light brigade have heavy armor?

How much does the light brigade charge?

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 9:31:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 16:59:20 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Markem wrote:
On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 23:10:31 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 23:02:16 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 14:12:41 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

I am posting this to the woodworking group because wood workers know a
lot about everything. ;-)

I am a volunteer at church and one of things that I do is change the
florescent lights when they die. Most of the fixtures are four tube
fixtures.

Is there a test to tell if a Florescent light tube is bad and needs to
be replaced, or the light is not working because its companion is dead?

I have struggled with this. Sometimes when one of the tubes is replaced
the other seems to start working. So it would be nice to test the tube
to see if even though working it should be replaced.
I would recommend that when you replace one tube in a fixture, you
replace all the others, as well.
Also, clean the fixture.

Be sure to use a light rag or towel.
Use a dark one to see if you've let any light leak out.
A dark light rag? The "Black and White Rag" was composed in 1908. I'm
not sure what it was composed of.. Say the secret word and you'll win
$500. ; )
And the winner at the checkered flags is ....
Waving his arms with the rest of the light brigade...
Did the light brigade have heavy armor?
How much does the light brigade charge?

If you need to ask, you should stick with the dark light--which is
lightened-up by your suns.

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message ...

"Bob La Londe" writes:

I have a bunch of 8' cans hanging from chains in my shop. They hold two

"Cans" is not the appropiate term. Fixture is. Recessed fluorescent
fixtures are generally known as troffers.

***********

Not sure "can" is a proper term regardless. I've been calling any flimsy
sheet metal light fixture a "can" for atleast 40 years. Probably not going
to change anytime soon. My particular improper term "can" is intended to be
derogatory of its flimsy sheet metal nature.

I do have a box of light "cans" that are left over from the recessed
lighting I installed in my machine room. I don't think it says "can"
anywhere on the box either.

Bill wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 9:31:17 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 16:59:20 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Markem wrote:
On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 23:10:31 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 23:02:16 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 14:12:41 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

I am posting this to the woodworking group because wood
workers know a
lot about everything. ;-)

I am a volunteer at church and one of things that I do is
change the
florescent lights when they die. Most of the fixtures are
four tube
fixtures.

Is there a test to tell if a Florescent light tube is bad and
needs to
be replaced, or the light is not working because its
companion is dead?

I have struggled with this. Sometimes when one of the tubes
is replaced
the other seems to start working. So it would be nice to
test the tube
to see if even though working it should be replaced.
I would recommend that when you replace one tube in a fixture,
you
replace all the others, as well.
Also, clean the fixture.

Be sure to use a light rag or towel.
Use a dark one to see if you've let any light leak out.
A dark light rag? The "Black and White Rag" was composed in
1908. I'm
not sure what it was composed of.. Say the secret word and
you'll win
$500. ; )
And the winner at the checkered flags is ....
Waving his arms with the rest of the light brigade...
Did the light brigade have heavy armor?
How much does the light brigade charge?

If you need to ask, you should stick with the dark light--which is
lightened-up by your suns.

But where, you may ask, is the lightest dark light to be found if
standing under a tree in the rain?

On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 10:58:24 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message ...

"Bob La Londe" writes:

I have a bunch of 8' cans hanging from chains in my shop. They hold two

"Cans" is not the appropiate term. Fixture is. Recessed fluorescent
fixtures are generally known as troffers.

***********

Not sure "can" is a proper term regardless. I've been calling any flimsy
sheet metal light fixture a "can" for atleast 40 years. Probably not going
to change anytime soon. My particular improper term "can" is intended to be
derogatory of its flimsy sheet metal nature.

I do have a box of light "cans" that are left over from the recessed
lighting I installed in my machine room. I don't think it says "can"
anywhere on the box either.

Recessed lights are commonly called "cans" or "can lights" because,
well, they look like cans.

http://www.homedepot.com/s/can+light?NCNI-5
^^^^^^^^^

On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 19:53:23 -0400, Bill
wrote:

If you need to ask, you should stick with the dark light--which is
lightened-up by your suns.

But where, you may ask, is the lightest dark light to be found if
standing under a tree in the rain?

Wait for the random nature of the world and you will light up the
world.

On 8/4/2017 10:02 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 10:58:24 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message ...

"Bob La Londe" writes:

I have a bunch of 8' cans hanging from chains in my shop. They hold two

"Cans" is not the appropiate term. Fixture is. Recessed fluorescent
fixtures are generally known as troffers.

***********

Not sure "can" is a proper term regardless. I've been calling any flimsy
sheet metal light fixture a "can" for atleast 40 years. Probably not going
to change anytime soon. My particular improper term "can" is intended to be
derogatory of its flimsy sheet metal nature.

I do have a box of light "cans" that are left over from the recessed
lighting I installed in my machine room. I don't think it says "can"
anywhere on the box either.

Recessed lights are commonly called "cans" or "can lights" because,
well, they look like cans.

http://www.homedepot.com/s/can+light?NCNI-5
^^^^^^^^^



I think most any recessed electrical box is called a can. When our new
house was built the building plans called for a "can" to be inset in the
closet wall to house the structured wiring. Alarm wiring, Ethernet
wiring, etc, By its shape you would thing it would be called a "box". ;~)

On Sat, 5 Aug 2017 11:02:25 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 8/4/2017 10:02 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 10:58:24 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message ...

"Bob La Londe" writes:

I have a bunch of 8' cans hanging from chains in my shop. They hold two

"Cans" is not the appropiate term. Fixture is. Recessed fluorescent
fixtures are generally known as troffers.

***********

Not sure "can" is a proper term regardless. I've been calling any flimsy
sheet metal light fixture a "can" for atleast 40 years. Probably not going
to change anytime soon. My particular improper term "can" is intended to be
derogatory of its flimsy sheet metal nature.

I do have a box of light "cans" that are left over from the recessed
lighting I installed in my machine room. I don't think it says "can"
anywhere on the box either.

Recessed lights are commonly called "cans" or "can lights" because,
well, they look like cans.

http://www.homedepot.com/s/can+light?NCNI-5
^^^^^^^^^



I think most any recessed electrical box is called a can. When our new
house was built the building plans called for a "can" to be inset in the
closet wall to house the structured wiring. Alarm wiring, Ethernet
wiring, etc, By its shape you would thing it would be called a "box". ;~)

I've never heard of a "J-box" called a "can". I haven't seen a J-box
surface mounted on a finished surface, either (i.e. opposed to being
recessed).

On 8/5/2017 11:19 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 5 Aug 2017 11:02:25 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 8/4/2017 10:02 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 10:58:24 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message ...

"Bob La Londe" writes:

I have a bunch of 8' cans hanging from chains in my shop. They hold two

"Cans" is not the appropiate term. Fixture is. Recessed fluorescent
fixtures are generally known as troffers.

***********

Not sure "can" is a proper term regardless. I've been calling any flimsy
sheet metal light fixture a "can" for atleast 40 years. Probably not going
to change anytime soon. My particular improper term "can" is intended to be
derogatory of its flimsy sheet metal nature.

I do have a box of light "cans" that are left over from the recessed
lighting I installed in my machine room. I don't think it says "can"
anywhere on the box either.

Recessed lights are commonly called "cans" or "can lights" because,
well, they look like cans.

http://www.homedepot.com/s/can+light?NCNI-5
^^^^^^^^^



I think most any recessed electrical box is called a can. When our new
house was built the building plans called for a "can" to be inset in the
closet wall to house the structured wiring. Alarm wiring, Ethernet
wiring, etc, By its shape you would thing it would be called a "box". ;~)

I've never heard of a "J-box" called a "can". I haven't seen a J-box
surface mounted on a finished surface, either (i.e. opposed to being
recessed).


Now you have. ;~) Wright or wrong, that is what the builder and
installer called it.

Markem wrote:
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 19:53:23 -0400, Bill
wrote:

If you need to ask, you should stick with the dark light--which is
lightened-up by your suns.
But where, you may ask, is the lightest dark light to be found if
standing under a tree in the rain?
Wait for the random nature of the world and you will light up the
world.


By acting as part of the filament for a lightning bolt, my socks on the
ground?