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#1
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will they stand behind the tools still
birds of a feather flock together so now craftsman stanley and black decker will all become equally crappy but i wonder if the craftsman tools with lifetime guarantee will still be honored or will they just throw that out and go for complete mediocrity i think sears really made out well selling that for close to a billion dollars hf has been and will continue to bite hard into that market space the same model as ikea cheap and usable and crappy |
#2
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will they stand behind the tools still
On 1/15/2017 1:34 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
birds of a feather flock together so now craftsman stanley and black decker will all become equally crappy but i wonder if the craftsman tools with lifetime guarantee will still be honored or will they just throw that out and go for complete mediocrity i think sears really made out well selling that for close to a billion dollars hf has been and will continue to bite hard into that market space the same model as ikea cheap and usable and crappy Don't know if you realize it. But sears/craftsman has been selling the evolve line which is HF stuff. But at a higher price. Sometimes much higher. -- Jeff --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#3
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will they stand behind the tools still
Electric Comet wrote:
birds of a feather flock together so now craftsman stanley and black decker will all become equally crappy but i wonder if the craftsman tools with lifetime guarantee will still be honored or will they just throw that out and go for complete mediocrity If you just spent 900 million on the company, what would you do? i think sears really made out well selling that for close to a billion dollars hf has been and will continue to bite hard into that market space the same model as ikea cheap and usable and crappy |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
On 1/15/2017 3:20 PM, Bill wrote:
Electric Comet wrote: birds of a feather flock together so now craftsman stanley and black decker will all become equally crappy but i wonder if the craftsman tools with lifetime guarantee will still be honored or will they just throw that out and go for complete mediocrity If you just spent 900 million on the company, what would you do? What you paid for a company has nothing to do with whether you honor old guarantees/warranties or not. You may or may not be obligated to honor those warranties. You are simply the new owner of the company, the company still has legal obligations. |
#5
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will they stand behind the tools still
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 16:18:39 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 1/15/2017 3:20 PM, Bill wrote: Electric Comet wrote: birds of a feather flock together so now craftsman stanley and black decker will all become equally crappy but i wonder if the craftsman tools with lifetime guarantee will still be honored or will they just throw that out and go for complete mediocrity If you just spent 900 million on the company, what would you do? What you paid for a company has nothing to do with whether you honor old guarantees/warranties or not. You may or may not be obligated to honor those warranties. You are simply the new owner of the company, the company still has legal obligations. Depends what they bought. In many cases a company buys the right to use the name, and the designs, and possibly other assetts of the company, but not the company itself. In the case of Craftsman, I'm not sure a Craftsman "company" exists. I believe it is just a "brand" owned up until the sale, by Sears. |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
On 1/15/2017 4:18 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/15/2017 3:20 PM, Bill wrote: Electric Comet wrote: birds of a feather flock together so now craftsman stanley and black decker will all become equally crappy but i wonder if the craftsman tools with lifetime guarantee will still be honored or will they just throw that out and go for complete mediocrity If you just spent 900 million on the company, what would you do? What you paid for a company has nothing to do with whether you honor old guarantees/warranties or not. You may or may not be obligated to honor those warranties. You are simply the new owner of the company, the company still has legal obligations. Maybe some legal eagle can weigh in on this. If B&D bought the manufacturing arm (there isn't one, AFAIK) or the sales arm, then I think the issue would be moot. The buyer of a corporation assumes both the assets and liabilities of the corporation. B&D under that scenario is required to honor the existing warranties but is not compelled to continue issuing that warranty with new tools any more than Sears is. Since there did not appear to be any requirement such as proof of purchase, etc. with Craftsman tools, it might be real hard for Sears or Black & Decker to back out now other than by coming out with Craftsman II tools, so marked, but no lifetime warranty. I would hope that B&D looked at this and said, "let's buy the Craftsman line if Sears will sell it. It has a sterling reputation and is profitable. Buying it separately from them will likely cost us more than what it will go for if K-Mart puts the entire company on the auction block; and if we're going to spend damn near a Billion dollars for it, let's keep doing it the way Sears has sold the brand with added value and not screw it up. OTOH, if B&D, like Sears did many years before it, only purchased the exclusive rights (eventually) to produce tools under the Craftsman brand name, I'm not sure what liability they assume, if any, with regard to warranties on the preexisting tools sold by Sears. Calling Perry Mason, calling Perry Mason, please report to rec.woodworking! |
#7
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will they stand behind the tools still
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#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
On 1/15/2017 4:50 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/15/2017 4:39 PM, wrote: On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 16:18:39 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: [snip] I'm pretty certain Craftsman is a company, Sears bought that company about 92 years ago. ;~) What all that company manufactures is probably limited. Lawnmowers, power tools etc is probably just the name like Ridgid ww tools. Perhaps you missed this information which was shared early on in the thread about this sale. Not sure just how accurate all the info is on the current sale to Stanley B&D, but historically, I think the info on how Sears came to use the brand name is solid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craftsman_(tools) |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
Leon wrote:
On 1/15/2017 3:20 PM, Bill wrote: Electric Comet wrote: birds of a feather flock together so now craftsman stanley and black decker will all become equally crappy but i wonder if the craftsman tools with lifetime guarantee will still be honored or will they just throw that out and go for complete mediocrity If you just spent 900 million on the company, what would you do? What you paid for a company has nothing to do with whether you honor old guarantees/warranties or not. You may or may not be obligated to honor those warranties. You are simply the new owner of the company, the company still has legal obligations. How do you think that the shareholders of S felt after the bankruptcy and reorganization? I would suppose that any legal liability for old tools would have ended there. The new owner may feel it is in there best interest to maintain the warranties, but they may also not. My point was that as the new owner, I think you get to "call the tune", especially on a tools sold before the reorganization--which represents almost "pure liability" to you (I am not a lawyer). How about those folks who collect old tools and turn them in for new ones? They are angle shooters, and, IMO, everyone deserves protection from people who would seek to profit from "loopholes" (that are "out of the spirit" of the warranty). S and SHLD have both treated them more charitably than I would have... |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
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#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
On 1/15/2017 5:12 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote: On 1/15/2017 3:20 PM, Bill wrote: Electric Comet wrote: birds of a feather flock together so now craftsman stanley and black decker will all become equally crappy but i wonder if the craftsman tools with lifetime guarantee will still be honored or will they just throw that out and go for complete mediocrity If you just spent 900 million on the company, what would you do? What you paid for a company has nothing to do with whether you honor old guarantees/warranties or not. You may or may not be obligated to honor those warranties. You are simply the new owner of the company, the company still has legal obligations. How do you think that the shareholders of S felt after the bankruptcy and reorganization? I would suppose that any legal liability for old tools would have ended there. The new owner may feel it is in there best interest to maintain the warranties, but they may also not. My point was that as the new owner, I think you get to "call the tune", especially on a tools sold before the reorganization--which represents almost "pure liability" to you (I am not a lawyer). How about those folks who collect old tools and turn them in for new ones? They are angle shooters, and, IMO, everyone deserves protection from people who would seek to profit from "loopholes" (that are "out of the spirit" of the warranty). S and SHLD have both treated them more charitably than I would have... It all has to do with the details of what they buy but unless the company simply disappears some one is still going to be liable to uphold the warranty. As far as people taking advantage of the warranty, Craftsman could simply ask for proof of purchase or a copy of the warranty that they received. |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
On 1/15/2017 5:13 PM, Bill wrote:
wrote: In many cases a company buys the right to use the name, and the designs, and possibly other assets of the company, but not the company itself. In the case of Craftsman, I'm not sure a Craftsman "company" exists. I believe it is just a "brand" owned up until the sale, by Sears. Well put. Thanks. But, Craftsman did exist as a tool company before Sears bought. It may still exist. |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:48:10 -0600, Leon wrote:
It all has to do with the details of what they buy but unless the company simply disappears some one is still going to be liable to uphold the warranty. I don't think that's necessarily true, Leon. As someone said, it depends on the terms of the sale. I do remember reading about one or two corporate sales where the seller kept the responsibility for old warranties but I don't remember the details. The problem here is that there's no "money back", there's just replacement. What if the tool is no longer available or the new owner drops it from the line? -- What if a much of a which of a wind gives the truth to summer's lie? |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
Leon wrote:
On 1/15/2017 3:20 PM, Bill wrote: Electric Comet wrote: birds of a feather flock together so now craftsman stanley and black decker will all become equally crappy but i wonder if the craftsman tools with lifetime guarantee will still be honored or will they just throw that out and go for complete mediocrity If you just spent 900 million on the company, what would you do? What you paid for a company has nothing to do with whether you honor old guarantees/warranties or not. You may or may not be obligated to honor those warranties. You are simply the new owner of the company, the company still has legal obligations. I think this is a good issue to work on after you've protected our social security benefits from possible default. |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 20:40:07 -0500, Bill
wrote: Leon wrote: On 1/15/2017 3:20 PM, Bill wrote: Electric Comet wrote: birds of a feather flock together so now craftsman stanley and black decker will all become equally crappy but i wonder if the craftsman tools with lifetime guarantee will still be honored or will they just throw that out and go for complete mediocrity If you just spent 900 million on the company, what would you do? What you paid for a company has nothing to do with whether you honor old guarantees/warranties or not. You may or may not be obligated to honor those warranties. You are simply the new owner of the company, the company still has legal obligations. I think this is a good issue to work on after you've protected our social security benefits from possible default. And out of left field comes a whistling fast ball. |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:48:10 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 1/15/2017 5:12 PM, Bill wrote: Leon wrote: On 1/15/2017 3:20 PM, Bill wrote: Electric Comet wrote: birds of a feather flock together so now craftsman stanley and black decker will all become equally crappy but i wonder if the craftsman tools with lifetime guarantee will still be honored or will they just throw that out and go for complete mediocrity If you just spent 900 million on the company, what would you do? What you paid for a company has nothing to do with whether you honor old guarantees/warranties or not. You may or may not be obligated to honor those warranties. You are simply the new owner of the company, the company still has legal obligations. How do you think that the shareholders of S felt after the bankruptcy and reorganization? I would suppose that any legal liability for old tools would have ended there. The new owner may feel it is in there best interest to maintain the warranties, but they may also not. My point was that as the new owner, I think you get to "call the tune", especially on a tools sold before the reorganization--which represents almost "pure liability" to you (I am not a lawyer). How about those folks who collect old tools and turn them in for new ones? They are angle shooters, and, IMO, everyone deserves protection from people who would seek to profit from "loopholes" (that are "out of the spirit" of the warranty). S and SHLD have both treated them more charitably than I would have... It all has to do with the details of what they buy but unless the company simply disappears some one is still going to be liable to uphold the warranty. As far as people taking advantage of the warranty, Craftsman could simply ask for proof of purchase or a copy of the warranty that they received. Except they cannot unilaterally change the requirements for the warranty, and no "copy of the warranty" was recieved wit the tools at purchace, other than "lifetime warranty" on the packaging - which I, for one, have not kept for 48 years over numerous moves and life changes |
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:50:33 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 1/15/2017 5:13 PM, Bill wrote: wrote: In many cases a company buys the right to use the name, and the designs, and possibly other assets of the company, but not the company itself. In the case of Craftsman, I'm not sure a Craftsman "company" exists. I believe it is just a "brand" owned up until the sale, by Sears. Well put. Thanks. But, Craftsman did exist as a tool company before Sears bought. It may still exist. The original company that sold Sears the rights to the name is LONG gone. |
#18
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will they stand behind the tools still
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#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
On 1/15/2017 7:16 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:48:10 -0600, Leon wrote: It all has to do with the details of what they buy but unless the company simply disappears some one is still going to be liable to uphold the warranty. I don't think that's necessarily true, Leon. As someone said, it depends on the terms of the sale. I do remember reading about one or two corporate sales where the seller kept the responsibility for old warranties but I don't remember the details. Absolutely and I'm sorry if I did not make that clear. Arbitrarily the new owner cannot just decide to stop honoring the warranty, it will be governed by the terms of the agreement/sale. The new owner may or may not have to honor the new warranty depending on the agreement. That will/was decided before the sale. If their, the new owners, acquisition does not require them to honor the warranty, I suspect that Sears will have to continue to honor the warranties up to that point. The problem here is that there's no "money back", there's just replacement. What if the tool is no longer available or the new owner drops it from the line? This happen all the time, products being discontinued. Typically something of equal value is substituted. |
#20
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will they stand behind the tools still
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#21
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
On 1/15/2017 9:33 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/15/2017 7:16 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote: On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:48:10 -0600, Leon wrote: It all has to do with the details of what they buy but unless the company simply disappears some one is still going to be liable to uphold the warranty. I don't think that's necessarily true, Leon. As someone said, it depends on the terms of the sale. I do remember reading about one or two corporate sales where the seller kept the responsibility for old warranties but I don't remember the details. Absolutely and I'm sorry if I did not make that clear. Arbitrarily the new owner cannot just decide to stop honoring the warranty, it will be governed by the terms of the agreement/sale. The new owner may or may not have to honor the new warranty depending on the agreement. That will/was decided before the sale. If their, the new owners, acquisition does not require them to honor the warranty, I suspect that Sears will have to continue to honor the warranties up to that point. Sort of like a bank being sold and the banking company selling the bank saying the new owners don't have to pay the former bank's depositors? LOL! It's one thing when a company goes under, another thing entirely when a company sells it's interests. The purchasing company also assumes, by law, the liabilities and debts of that company and the warranty would be one such debt or liability. |
#23
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
On 1/15/2017 7:40 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote: On 1/15/2017 3:20 PM, Bill wrote: Electric Comet wrote: birds of a feather flock together so now craftsman stanley and black decker will all become equally crappy but i wonder if the craftsman tools with lifetime guarantee will still be honored or will they just throw that out and go for complete mediocrity If you just spent 900 million on the company, what would you do? What you paid for a company has nothing to do with whether you honor old guarantees/warranties or not. You may or may not be obligated to honor those warranties. You are simply the new owner of the company, the company still has legal obligations. I think this is a good issue to work on after you've protected our social security benefits from possible default. I seriously doubt SS will ever default. The government has run out of money on numerous occasions and elected to go further in debt to continue business. The government and or SS will never run out of money, so to speak, it will simply borrow or circulate more money to pay off debt. This is how the dollar has been loosing value for decades. Every one pays that debt by loosing buying power. |
#24
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
: On 1/15/2017 7:16 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote: The problem here is that there's no "money back", there's just replacement. What if the tool is no longer available or the new owner drops it from the line? This happen all the time, products being discontinued. Typically something of equal value is substituted. That's exactly what happened to my Craftsman tape measure. Last month, I took it in for warranty replacement, and since Craftsman no longer brands tape measures, the guy at Sears exchanged it for a 30' Stanley. He did explain it was a one-time exchange, and the Stanely wasn't covered under the Craftsman warranty. Puckdropper -- http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst! |
#25
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 16:20:58 -0500, Bill
wrote: Electric Comet wrote: birds of a feather flock together so now craftsman stanley and black decker will all become equally crappy but i wonder if the craftsman tools with lifetime guarantee will still be honored or will they just throw that out and go for complete mediocrity If you just spent 900 million on the company, what would you do? Try to make it back. The problem is that there is more than one way to try. |
#26
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
On 1/15/2017 9:40 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 1/15/2017 9:33 PM, Leon wrote: On 1/15/2017 7:16 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote: On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:48:10 -0600, Leon wrote: It all has to do with the details of what they buy but unless the company simply disappears some one is still going to be liable to uphold the warranty. I don't think that's necessarily true, Leon. As someone said, it depends on the terms of the sale. I do remember reading about one or two corporate sales where the seller kept the responsibility for old warranties but I don't remember the details. Absolutely and I'm sorry if I did not make that clear. Arbitrarily the new owner cannot just decide to stop honoring the warranty, it will be governed by the terms of the agreement/sale. The new owner may or may not have to honor the new warranty depending on the agreement. That will/was decided before the sale. If their, the new owners, acquisition does not require them to honor the warranty, I suspect that Sears will have to continue to honor the warranties up to that point. Sort of like a bank being sold and the banking company selling the bank saying the new owners don't have to pay the former bank's depositors? LOL! I suspect this did happen in the past, pre depression era time. But there are regulations that prevent this and in the case of default, FDIC. It's one thing when a company goes under, another thing entirely when a company sells it's interests. The purchasing company also assumes, by law, the liabilities and debts of that company and the warranty would be one such debt or liability. Yes, but the new owner does not necessarily have to assume the liability on past sales, know as the warranty. But some one does, and that may be a required acquisition of a third party insurance to cover that detail. |
#27
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 1/15/2017 9:33 PM, Leon wrote: On 1/15/2017 7:16 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote: On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:48:10 -0600, Leon wrote: It all has to do with the details of what they buy but unless the company simply disappears some one is still going to be liable to uphold the warranty. I don't think that's necessarily true, Leon. As someone said, it depends on the terms of the sale. I do remember reading about one or two corporate sales where the seller kept the responsibility for old warranties but I don't remember the details. Absolutely and I'm sorry if I did not make that clear. Arbitrarily the new owner cannot just decide to stop honoring the warranty, it will be governed by the terms of the agreement/sale. The new owner may or may not have to honor the new warranty depending on the agreement. That will/was decided before the sale. If their, the new owners, acquisition does not require them to honor the warranty, I suspect that Sears will have to continue to honor the warranties up to that point. Sort of like a bank being sold and the banking company selling the bank saying the new owners don't have to pay the former bank's depositors? LOL! That's why we have FDIC (insurance). It's one thing when a company goes under, another thing entirely when a company sells it's interests. The purchasing company also assumes, by law, the liabilities and debts of that company and the warranty would be one such debt or liability. |
#28
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
On 1/15/2017 10:04 PM, Bill wrote:
Unquestionably Confused wrote: On 1/15/2017 9:33 PM, Leon wrote: On 1/15/2017 7:16 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote: On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:48:10 -0600, Leon wrote: It all has to do with the details of what they buy but unless the company simply disappears some one is still going to be liable to uphold the warranty. I don't think that's necessarily true, Leon. As someone said, it depends on the terms of the sale. I do remember reading about one or two corporate sales where the seller kept the responsibility for old warranties but I don't remember the details. Absolutely and I'm sorry if I did not make that clear. Arbitrarily the new owner cannot just decide to stop honoring the warranty, it will be governed by the terms of the agreement/sale. The new owner may or may not have to honor the new warranty depending on the agreement. That will/was decided before the sale. If their, the new owners, acquisition does not require them to honor the warranty, I suspect that Sears will have to continue to honor the warranties up to that point. Sort of like a bank being sold and the banking company selling the bank saying the new owners don't have to pay the former bank's depositors? LOL! That's why we have FDIC (insurance). Guess again. FDIC covers the depositors if the bank FAILS. Do you believe for a moment that if I own the bank and I have $100M on deposit, that I can sell it to you for $25M, transfer only $50M of the assets to you and walk away from the table with $75M in my pocket? Can't happen legally. It's one thing when a company goes under, another thing entirely when a company sells it's interests. The purchasing company also assumes, by law, the liabilities and debts of that company and the warranty would be one such debt or liability. |
#29
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 21:45:44 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 1/15/2017 8:59 PM, Bill wrote: wrote: On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:48:10 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 1/15/2017 5:12 PM, Bill wrote: Leon wrote: On 1/15/2017 3:20 PM, Bill wrote: Electric Comet wrote: birds of a feather flock together so now craftsman stanley and black decker will all become equally crappy but i wonder if the craftsman tools with lifetime guarantee will still be honored or will they just throw that out and go for complete mediocrity If you just spent 900 million on the company, what would you do? What you paid for a company has nothing to do with whether you honor old guarantees/warranties or not. You may or may not be obligated to honor those warranties. You are simply the new owner of the company, the company still has legal obligations. How do you think that the shareholders of S felt after the bankruptcy and reorganization? I would suppose that any legal liability for old tools would have ended there. The new owner may feel it is in there best interest to maintain the warranties, but they may also not. My point was that as the new owner, I think you get to "call the tune", especially on a tools sold before the reorganization--which represents almost "pure liability" to you (I am not a lawyer). How about those folks who collect old tools and turn them in for new ones? They are angle shooters, and, IMO, everyone deserves protection from people who would seek to profit from "loopholes" (that are "out of the spirit" of the warranty). S and SHLD have both treated them more charitably than I would have... It all has to do with the details of what they buy but unless the company simply disappears some one is still going to be liable to uphold the warranty. As far as people taking advantage of the warranty, Craftsman could simply ask for proof of purchase or a copy of the warranty that they received. Except they cannot unilaterally change the requirements for the warranty, and no "copy of the warranty" was recieved wit the tools at purchace, other than "lifetime warranty" on the packaging - which I, for one, have not kept for 48 years over numerous moves and life changes I think it is a fair argument that has already been made that the company with whom the warranty was created no longer exists. If someone owes you money, and they die, you can't go back to one of the family members after probate and make a claim. I'm not a lawyer and don't know the degree to which that analogy is appropriate. That is totally different, going after family members is totally different unless they were all in business together. Further, if family members are to inherit from a will, that is very often subject to happening after the cure of all contractual debts up to totally liquidating the deceased assets. I think Bill is right on with his analogy. The bankruptcy, some time back, was exactly analogous to the probate of a will. The company died and its assets were bought by another. For example if you are in your parents will to inherit their home after their death and there is an outstanding mortgage, you have to pay off/cure that mortgage before taking possession of that home. Nor are you obligated to cure that mortgage if you have no interest/desire in keeping the home. Typically you sell the home and pay off the mortgage if the home can be sold for more than the outstanding debt and fees. But someone coming to court with a bill for the new furnace, after probate, is out of luck. The person is dead and his assets transferred to someone else. A bankruptcy is much the same. |
#30
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will they stand behind the tools still
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 21:49:41 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 1/15/2017 7:40 PM, Bill wrote: Leon wrote: On 1/15/2017 3:20 PM, Bill wrote: Electric Comet wrote: birds of a feather flock together so now craftsman stanley and black decker will all become equally crappy but i wonder if the craftsman tools with lifetime guarantee will still be honored or will they just throw that out and go for complete mediocrity If you just spent 900 million on the company, what would you do? What you paid for a company has nothing to do with whether you honor old guarantees/warranties or not. You may or may not be obligated to honor those warranties. You are simply the new owner of the company, the company still has legal obligations. I think this is a good issue to work on after you've protected our social security benefits from possible default. I seriously doubt SS will ever default. The government has run out of money on numerous occasions and elected to go further in debt to continue business. ....and when people stop buying the debt, we just buy another tanker of ink and do QE(N+1). The government and or SS will never run out of money, so to speak, it will simply borrow or circulate more money to pay off debt. This is how the dollar has been loosing value for decades. Every one pays that debt by loosing buying power. |
#31
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will they stand behind the tools still
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 21:55:36 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 1/15/2017 9:40 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote: On 1/15/2017 9:33 PM, Leon wrote: On 1/15/2017 7:16 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote: On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:48:10 -0600, Leon wrote: It all has to do with the details of what they buy but unless the company simply disappears some one is still going to be liable to uphold the warranty. I don't think that's necessarily true, Leon. As someone said, it depends on the terms of the sale. I do remember reading about one or two corporate sales where the seller kept the responsibility for old warranties but I don't remember the details. Absolutely and I'm sorry if I did not make that clear. Arbitrarily the new owner cannot just decide to stop honoring the warranty, it will be governed by the terms of the agreement/sale. The new owner may or may not have to honor the new warranty depending on the agreement. That will/was decided before the sale. If their, the new owners, acquisition does not require them to honor the warranty, I suspect that Sears will have to continue to honor the warranties up to that point. Sort of like a bank being sold and the banking company selling the bank saying the new owners don't have to pay the former bank's depositors? LOL! I suspect this did happen in the past, pre depression era time. But there are regulations that prevent this and in the case of default, FDIC. It's one thing when a company goes under, another thing entirely when a company sells it's interests. The purchasing company also assumes, by law, the liabilities and debts of that company and the warranty would be one such debt or liability. Yes, but the new owner does not necessarily have to assume the liability on past sales, know as the warranty. But some one does, and that may be a required acquisition of a third party insurance to cover that detail. Not necessarily. In a banruptcy, the assets may be sold off without selling the company itself and any liabilities killed with the business. It's not only the debtors that get screwed. |
#32
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will they stand behind the tools still
On 1/15/2017 10:04 PM, Bill wrote:
Unquestionably Confused wrote: On 1/15/2017 9:33 PM, Leon wrote: On 1/15/2017 7:16 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote: On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:48:10 -0600, Leon wrote: It all has to do with the details of what they buy but unless the company simply disappears some one is still going to be liable to uphold the warranty. I don't think that's necessarily true, Leon. As someone said, it depends on the terms of the sale. I do remember reading about one or two corporate sales where the seller kept the responsibility for old warranties but I don't remember the details. Absolutely and I'm sorry if I did not make that clear. Arbitrarily the new owner cannot just decide to stop honoring the warranty, it will be governed by the terms of the agreement/sale. The new owner may or may not have to honor the new warranty depending on the agreement. That will/was decided before the sale. If their, the new owners, acquisition does not require them to honor the warranty, I suspect that Sears will have to continue to honor the warranties up to that point. Sort of like a bank being sold and the banking company selling the bank saying the new owners don't have to pay the former bank's depositors? LOL! That's why we have FDIC (insurance). No, FDIC does not cover that. FDIC covers depositors in the event that the bank defaults. Bank regulations prevent a bank from buying another and refusing give the depositors their money. |
#33
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will they stand behind the tools still
In article x4WdnUzZ77hWl-HFnZ2dnUU7-
, lcb11211@swbelldotnet says... On 1/15/2017 5:13 PM, Bill wrote: wrote: In many cases a company buys the right to use the name, and the designs, and possibly other assets of the company, but not the company itself. In the case of Craftsman, I'm not sure a Craftsman "company" exists. I believe it is just a "brand" owned up until the sale, by Sears. Well put. Thanks. But, Craftsman did exist as a tool company before Sears bought. It may still exist. According to wiki Sears bought the rights to the name "Craftsman" from Marion-Craftsman Tool Company in 1927 for 500 bucks. It's not clear whether Marion-Craftsman ever actually produced any tools that were sold by Sears. |
#34
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will they stand behind the tools still
On 1/15/2017 10:19 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 21:45:44 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 1/15/2017 8:59 PM, Bill wrote: wrote: On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:48:10 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 1/15/2017 5:12 PM, Bill wrote: Leon wrote: On 1/15/2017 3:20 PM, Bill wrote: Electric Comet wrote: birds of a feather flock together so now craftsman stanley and black decker will all become equally crappy but i wonder if the craftsman tools with lifetime guarantee will still be honored or will they just throw that out and go for complete mediocrity If you just spent 900 million on the company, what would you do? What you paid for a company has nothing to do with whether you honor old guarantees/warranties or not. You may or may not be obligated to honor those warranties. You are simply the new owner of the company, the company still has legal obligations. How do you think that the shareholders of S felt after the bankruptcy and reorganization? I would suppose that any legal liability for old tools would have ended there. The new owner may feel it is in there best interest to maintain the warranties, but they may also not. My point was that as the new owner, I think you get to "call the tune", especially on a tools sold before the reorganization--which represents almost "pure liability" to you (I am not a lawyer). How about those folks who collect old tools and turn them in for new ones? They are angle shooters, and, IMO, everyone deserves protection from people who would seek to profit from "loopholes" (that are "out of the spirit" of the warranty). S and SHLD have both treated them more charitably than I would have... It all has to do with the details of what they buy but unless the company simply disappears some one is still going to be liable to uphold the warranty. As far as people taking advantage of the warranty, Craftsman could simply ask for proof of purchase or a copy of the warranty that they received. Except they cannot unilaterally change the requirements for the warranty, and no "copy of the warranty" was recieved wit the tools at purchace, other than "lifetime warranty" on the packaging - which I, for one, have not kept for 48 years over numerous moves and life changes I think it is a fair argument that has already been made that the company with whom the warranty was created no longer exists. If someone owes you money, and they die, you can't go back to one of the family members after probate and make a claim. I'm not a lawyer and don't know the degree to which that analogy is appropriate. That is totally different, going after family members is totally different unless they were all in business together. Further, if family members are to inherit from a will, that is very often subject to happening after the cure of all contractual debts up to totally liquidating the deceased assets. I think Bill is right on with his analogy. The bankruptcy, some time back, was exactly analogous to the probate of a will. The company died and its assets were bought by another. For example if you are in your parents will to inherit their home after their death and there is an outstanding mortgage, you have to pay off/cure that mortgage before taking possession of that home. Nor are you obligated to cure that mortgage if you have no interest/desire in keeping the home. Typically you sell the home and pay off the mortgage if the home can be sold for more than the outstanding debt and fees. But someone coming to court with a bill for the new furnace, after probate, is out of luck. The person is dead and his assets transferred to someone else. A bankruptcy is much the same. Lein holders have first shot at the assets in Texas. Probate takes time most, lien holders will have filed before the probate is finalized. |
#35
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will they stand behind the tools still
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#36
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will they stand behind the tools still
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#37
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will they stand behind the tools still
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 21:40:22 -0600, Unquestionably Confused
wrote: On 1/15/2017 9:33 PM, Leon wrote: On 1/15/2017 7:16 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote: On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:48:10 -0600, Leon wrote: It all has to do with the details of what they buy but unless the company simply disappears some one is still going to be liable to uphold the warranty. I don't think that's necessarily true, Leon. As someone said, it depends on the terms of the sale. I do remember reading about one or two corporate sales where the seller kept the responsibility for old warranties but I don't remember the details. Absolutely and I'm sorry if I did not make that clear. Arbitrarily the new owner cannot just decide to stop honoring the warranty, it will be governed by the terms of the agreement/sale. The new owner may or may not have to honor the new warranty depending on the agreement. That will/was decided before the sale. If their, the new owners, acquisition does not require them to honor the warranty, I suspect that Sears will have to continue to honor the warranties up to that point. Sort of like a bank being sold and the banking company selling the bank saying the new owners don't have to pay the former bank's depositors? LOL! It's one thing when a company goes under, another thing entirely when a company sells it's interests. The purchasing company also assumes, by law, the liabilities and debts of that company and the warranty would be one such debt or liability. Depends what the new company buys. If they buy the company, they buy everything. If they buy just the name, or just named assets, they do not. They can also buy all assets and liabilities. The computer manufacturer I formerly worked for went broke, and a distributor bought all assetts and liabilities for $1, but technically did NOT buy the corporation. |
#38
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will they stand behind the tools still
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#39
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
In article h5lo7cl6aikmvmihqjfelrl61l30tj8orm@
4ax.com, says... On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 21:35:15 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 1/15/2017 8:46 PM, wrote: On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:48:10 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 1/15/2017 5:12 PM, Bill wrote: Leon wrote: On 1/15/2017 3:20 PM, Bill wrote: Electric Comet wrote: birds of a feather flock together so now craftsman stanley and black decker will all become equally crappy but i wonder if the craftsman tools with lifetime guarantee will still be honored or will they just throw that out and go for complete mediocrity If you just spent 900 million on the company, what would you do? What you paid for a company has nothing to do with whether you honor old guarantees/warranties or not. You may or may not be obligated to honor those warranties. You are simply the new owner of the company, the company still has legal obligations. How do you think that the shareholders of S felt after the bankruptcy and reorganization? I would suppose that any legal liability for old tools would have ended there. The new owner may feel it is in there best interest to maintain the warranties, but they may also not. My point was that as the new owner, I think you get to "call the tune", especially on a tools sold before the reorganization--which represents almost "pure liability" to you (I am not a lawyer). How about those folks who collect old tools and turn them in for new ones? They are angle shooters, and, IMO, everyone deserves protection from people who would seek to profit from "loopholes" (that are "out of the spirit" of the warranty). S and SHLD have both treated them more charitably than I would have... It all has to do with the details of what they buy but unless the company simply disappears some one is still going to be liable to uphold the warranty. As far as people taking advantage of the warranty, Craftsman could simply ask for proof of purchase or a copy of the warranty that they received. Except they cannot unilaterally change the requirements for the warranty, and no "copy of the warranty" was recieved wit the tools at purchace, other than "lifetime warranty" on the packaging - which I, for one, have not kept for 48 years over numerous moves and life changes Exactly, that would be their out. But I have photo copied packaging showing the warranty in the even that this comes up. Much easier to do now than in the past. Virtually impossible in 1968/69. What, photocopying packaging? Maybe you didn't work anywhere that there was a Xerox but a lot of people did. |
#40
Posted to rec.woodworking
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will they stand behind the tools still
On 1/15/2017 11:06 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 21:35:15 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 1/15/2017 8:46 PM, wrote: On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:48:10 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 1/15/2017 5:12 PM, Bill wrote: Leon wrote: On 1/15/2017 3:20 PM, Bill wrote: Electric Comet wrote: birds of a feather flock together so now craftsman stanley and black decker will all become equally crappy but i wonder if the craftsman tools with lifetime guarantee will still be honored or will they just throw that out and go for complete mediocrity If you just spent 900 million on the company, what would you do? What you paid for a company has nothing to do with whether you honor old guarantees/warranties or not. You may or may not be obligated to honor those warranties. You are simply the new owner of the company, the company still has legal obligations. How do you think that the shareholders of S felt after the bankruptcy and reorganization? I would suppose that any legal liability for old tools would have ended there. The new owner may feel it is in there best interest to maintain the warranties, but they may also not. My point was that as the new owner, I think you get to "call the tune", especially on a tools sold before the reorganization--which represents almost "pure liability" to you (I am not a lawyer). How about those folks who collect old tools and turn them in for new ones? They are angle shooters, and, IMO, everyone deserves protection from people who would seek to profit from "loopholes" (that are "out of the spirit" of the warranty). S and SHLD have both treated them more charitably than I would have... It all has to do with the details of what they buy but unless the company simply disappears some one is still going to be liable to uphold the warranty. As far as people taking advantage of the warranty, Craftsman could simply ask for proof of purchase or a copy of the warranty that they received. Except they cannot unilaterally change the requirements for the warranty, and no "copy of the warranty" was recieved wit the tools at purchace, other than "lifetime warranty" on the packaging - which I, for one, have not kept for 48 years over numerous moves and life changes Exactly, that would be their out. But I have photo copied packaging showing the warranty in the even that this comes up. Much easier to do now than in the past. Virtually impossible in 1968/69. No, Xerox was making photo copiers at least as bar back as 1962. My dad went to work for Coastal States Gas then and they had "Xerox Machines"/photo copiers. It was the first time my dad ever used one. I recall him taking me to work with him on a weekend and showing me. But I imagine they were few and far in between. LOL |
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