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wood glue at hi temps
anyone know if would glue breaks down at hi temps say 200-300 f |
wood glue at hi temps
On 2016-12-24, Electric Comet wrote:
anyone know if would glue breaks down at hi temps Depends. Is "would glue" anything like "wood glue"? ;) nb |
wood glue at hi temps
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 10:00:15 -0800, Electric Comet
wrote: anyone know if would glue breaks down at hi temps Sure. Wood breaks down at high temperature. say 200-300 f ....something like 451F. |
wood glue at hi temps
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 10:00:15 -0800, Electric Comet
wrote: anyone know if would glue breaks down at hi temps say 200-300 f Depends what kind of "wood glue". Hide glue melts at 150 to 180F. Casein glue should not be heated beyond about 150F PVAgoes "plastic" at about 160F So the short answer to your question is "yes, many wood glues will fail well below 200 to 300 degrees F" |
wood glue at hi temps
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wood glue at hi temps
On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 11:59:38 AM UTC-8, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
On Dec 24, 2016, wrote I have two heavy wooden doors bought 10 or 15 years ago that quickly sagged trapezoidal in the summer heat - the Sun hits them in the afternoon. The original doors were ratty, but never sagged. The problem is that the door manufacturer used some kind of plastic based glue (Titebond?) that creeps... If the joints were tight, there wouldn't be creep at any reasonable temperatures. Methinks the manufacturer didn't use good construction OR good glue. Did the rail/stile joints open and show a crack? |
wood glue at hi temps
On Dec 24, 2016, whit3rd wrote
(in ): On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 11:59:38 AM UTC-8, Joseph Gwinn wrote: On Dec 24, 2016, wrote I have two heavy wooden doors bought 10 or 15 years ago that quickly sagged trapezoidal in the summer heat - the Sun hits them in the afternoon. The original doors were ratty, but never sagged. The problem is that the door manufacturer used some kind of plastic based glue (Titebond?) that creeps... If the joints were tight, there wouldn't be creep at any reasonable temperatures. The joints appear to be cope and stick,which depends entirely on the glue, even if the glue line is tight. Even mortise and tenon will rack unless the tenons fit the sockets perfectly on all four faces; this is unlikely in US production - too fiddly. Methinks the manufacturer didn't use good construction OR good glue. It looks to be the glue, but I did not take the door apart. While Titebond is a very good general-purpose glue, Im betting it will creep quickly at 150 F. "Polyvinyl Acetate (PVA) Glue: Any glue consisting primarily of polyvinyl acetate polymer. This category includes most traditional white glues and more advanced yellow aliphatic resin glues. Although PVA glues can vary in strength, flexibility, water-resistance and sandability, they offer good performance, cleanup with water and are non-toxic. Because PVA glues tend to €ścreep€ť, or slowly stretch under long-term loads, they are not recommended for structural applications.€ť ..http://www.titebond.com/Libraries/Li...deTB.sflb.ashx Elsewhere on the Titebond website, it says that their hide glue offers superior creep resistance. As do epoxy and resorcinol. Did the rail/stile joints open and show a crack? Yes. The cracks are tapered exactly as one would expect if the jamb side stile dropped down, but stayed parallel to the hinge side stile. The turnbuckles prevented further creep. Joe Gwinn |
wood glue at hi temps
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 17:45:47 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote: On Dec 24, 2016, whit3rd wrote (in ): On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 11:59:38 AM UTC-8, Joseph Gwinn wrote: On Dec 24, 2016, wrote I have two heavy wooden doors bought 10 or 15 years ago that quickly sagged trapezoidal in the summer heat - the Sun hits them in the afternoon. The original doors were ratty, but never sagged. The problem is that the door manufacturer used some kind of plastic based glue (Titebond?) that creeps... If the joints were tight, there wouldn't be creep at any reasonable temperatures. The joints appear to be cope and stick,which depends entirely on the glue, even if the glue line is tight. Even mortise and tenon will rack unless the tenons fit the sockets perfectly on all four faces; this is unlikely in US production - too fiddly. Methinks the manufacturer didn't use good construction OR good glue. It looks to be the glue, but I did not take the door apart. While Titebond is a very good general-purpose glue, I’m betting it will creep quickly at 150 F. "Polyvinyl Acetate (PVA) Glue: Any glue consisting primarily of polyvinyl acetate polymer. This category includes most traditional white glues and more advanced yellow aliphatic resin glues. Although PVA glues can vary in strength, flexibility, water-resistance and sandability, they offer good performance, cleanup with water and are non-toxic. Because PVA glues tend to “creep”, or slowly stretch under long-term loads, they are not recommended for structural applications.” .http://www.titebond.com/Libraries/Li...deTB.sflb.ashx Elsewhere on the Titebond website, it says that their hide glue offers superior creep resistance. As do epoxy and resorcinol. Did the rail/stile joints open and show a crack? Yes. The cracks are tapered exactly as one would expect if the jamb side stile dropped down, but stayed parallel to the hinge side stile. The turnbuckles prevented further creep. Joe Gwinn Easy to fix. Drill and pin with good hardwood dowels, the way the old doors were made - - |
wood glue at hi temps
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 23:04:43 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote: On Dec 24, 2016, wrote (in ): On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 17:45:47 -0500, Joseph Gwinn wrote: On Dec 24, 2016, whit3rd wrote (in ): On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 11:59:38 AM UTC-8, Joseph Gwinn wrote: On Dec 24, 2016, wrote I have two heavy wooden doors bought 10 or 15 years ago that quickly sagged trapezoidal in the summer heat - the Sun hits them in the afternoon. The original doors were ratty, but never sagged. The problem is that the door manufacturer used some kind of plastic based glue (Titebond?) that creeps... If the joints were tight, there wouldn't be creep at any reasonable temperatures. The joints appear to be cope and stick,which depends entirely on the glue, even if the glue line is tight. Even mortise and tenon will rack unless the tenons fit the sockets perfectly on all four faces; this is unlikely in US production - too fiddly. Methinks the manufacturer didn't use good construction OR good glue. It looks to be the glue, but I did not take the door apart. While Titebond is a very good general-purpose glue, I’m betting it will creep quickly at 150 F. "Polyvinyl Acetate (PVA) Glue: Any glue consisting primarily of polyvinyl acetate polymer. This category includes most traditional white glues and more advanced yellow aliphatic resin glues. Although PVA glues can vary in strength, flexibility, water-resistance and sandability, they offer good performance, cleanup with water and are non-toxic. Because PVA glues tend to “creep”, or slowly stretch under long-term loads, they are not recommended for structural applications.” .http://www.titebond.com/Libraries/Li...uideTB.sflb.as hx Elsewhere on the Titebond website, it says that their hide glue offers superior creep resistance. As do epoxy and resorcinol. Did the rail/stile joints open and show a crack? Yes. The cracks are tapered exactly as one would expect if the jamb side stile dropped down, but stayed parallel to the hinge side stile. The turnbuckles prevented further creep. Joe Gwinn Easy to fix. Drill and pin with good hardwood dowels, the way the old doors were made - - It’s a good idea, although the old-timers used hide glue as well. Joe Gwinn As well as dovetails instead of straight Mortise and Tenon construction. Some of those early doors wouls stay together and square with no glue or metallic fasteners. |
wood glue at hi temps
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wood glue at hi temps
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 17:45:47 -0500
Joseph Gwinn wrote: Elsewhere on the Titebond website, it says that their hide glue offers superior creep resistance. As do epoxy and resorcinol. may be but hide glue not good outdoors unless you have good moisture barrier finish |
wood glue at hi temps
In article ,
lid says... On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 14:40:28 -0500 wrote: Depends what kind of "wood glue". tbii Hide glue melts at 150 to 180F. Casein glue should not be heated beyond about 150F hide glue and casein are the same or no No. Casein is milk-based. Hard to find in the market now but you can make your own. Formerly (before WWII) was used for aircraft construction. Hide is, well, hide (and hoof and fish and other things) based, has the advantages that it can be disassembled with heat and doesn't have to be completely removed to effect a repair, as long as the repair is also with hide glue. PVAgoes "plastic" at about 160F which glues are pva Most of the common "wood glues"--Elmer's, Titebond, etc. So the short answer to your question is "yes, many wood glues will fail well below 200 to 300 degrees F" more research for me then |
wood glue at hi temps
On 2017-01-15, J. Clarke wrote:
No. Casein is milk-based. Hard to find in the market now but you can make your own. Formerly (before WWII) was used for aircraft construction. Xcelite tools usta be sold in casein capped sets, as late as the 1980's. You can smell it. Casein plastic smells like sour milk: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Xcelite-PS-120-Nut-Driver-Set-11-Pieces-with-case-/302192976026?hash=item465c1ae09a:g:s-UAAOSwt5hYZZix ***OR*** http://tinyurl.com/hkfp45y nb |
wood glue at hi temps
On Jan 11, 2017, Electric Comet wrote
(in article ): On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 14:40:28 -0500 wrote: Depends what kind of "wood glue". tbii Huh? Hide glue melts at 150 to 180F. Casein glue should not be heated beyond about 150F hide glue and casein are the same or no Different. Only Hide Glue is much used these days. A special-purpose variant is Fish Glue. These are for indoor uses only, not being moisture proof. PVAgoes "plastic" at about 160F which glues are pva All the milky white or yellow emulsion types, that resemble and often smell like Elmers Glue. So the short answer to your question is "yes, many wood glues will fail well below 200 to 300 degrees F" more research for me then The research is simple - the manufacturers data sheet will say what the operating temperature range is. If you want to cut to the chase, use only glues intended for fabricating wooden boats, as these will resist both temperature and moisture, and are strong and creep-resistant. In for instance the magazine Wooden Boat, you will find everything necessary. There are also numerous web sites. These glues can be bought online, and in West Marine stores.https://www.westmarine.com/ Joe Gwinn |
wood glue at hi temps
What were the handles made of - same stuff ? If I leave mine in very
hot conditions and moisture - they turn snow white. I put them in my RF vibration tank with some Green cleaner and they sparkle clean later. Martin On 1/15/2017 9:08 AM, notbob wrote: On 2017-01-15, J. Clarke wrote: No. Casein is milk-based. Hard to find in the market now but you can make your own. Formerly (before WWII) was used for aircraft construction. Xcelite tools usta be sold in casein capped sets, as late as the 1980's. You can smell it. Casein plastic smells like sour milk: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Xcelite-PS-120-Nut-Driver-Set-11-Pieces-with-case-/302192976026?hash=item465c1ae09a:g:s-UAAOSwt5hYZZix ***OR*** http://tinyurl.com/hkfp45y nb |
wood glue at hi temps
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 14:59:31 -0500
Joseph Gwinn wrote: Also, what do we mean by €śfails€ť? I have two heavy wooden doors bought 10 or 15 years ago that quickly sagged trapezoidal in the summer heat - the Sun hits them in the that is a failure |
wood glue at hi temps
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 14:04:11 -0500
Joseph Gwinn wrote: Huh? titebondii Different. Only Hide Glue is much used these days. everybody has a bottle of hide glue around All the milky white or yellow emulsion types, that resemble and often smell like Elmers Glue. i see If you want to cut to the chase, use only glues intended for fabricating wooden boats, as these will resist both temperature and moisture, and are strong and creep-resistant. thought wood boats were made so that the wood swelled and created the water proof joint but had to be wet to stay sealed but maybe that is ancient technique In for instance the magazine Wooden Boat, you will find everything necessary. There are also numerous web sites. These glues can be bought online, and in West Marine stores.https://www.westmarine.com/ westmarine has the highest prices almost always but sometimes there are deals glues are not often discounted either |
wood glue at hi temps
On Jan 17, 2017, Electric Comet wrote
(in article ): On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 14:04:11 -0500 Joseph Gwinn wrote: Huh? titebondii Different. Only Hide Glue is much used these days. everybody has a bottle of hide glue around All the milky white or yellow emulsion types, that resemble and often smell like Elmers Glue. i see Its best the leave the context in above, so people can understand what is being responded to. If you want to cut to the chase, use only glues intended for fabricating wooden boats, as these will resist both temperature and moisture, and are strong and creep-resistant. thought wood boats were made so that the wood swelled and created the water proof joint but had to be wet to stay sealed but maybe that is ancient technique Yes. Even in the Viking Age, they caulked the seams with wool saturated with beeswax. In the Age of Sail, it was oakum (rotten rope) driven in with a caulking iron and hammer. More recently, people use Resorcinol or Epoxy. See Wooden Boat. In for instance the magazine Wooden Boat, you will find everything necessary. There are also numerous web sites. These glues can be bought online, and in West Marine stores.https://www.westmarine.com/ westmarine has the highest prices almost always but sometimes there are deals glues are not often discounted either Glue is not a good place to be saving money. Its like a tailor who uses expensive fabric and cheap thread. In the other thread, yes the wooden door sagging trapezoidal in the summer heat is a failure. There are no marks on the door saying who made it, or Id be lecturing them. Joe Gwinn |
wood glue at hi temps
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:59:01 -0800, Electric Comet wrote:
thought wood boats were made so that the wood swelled and created the water proof joint but had to be wet to stay sealed but maybe that is ancient technique Seems to me that one of the crucial features of boats is keeping the water out! Almost as soon as multi-plank boats began to be built, people used pitch or resins to seal the joints. Speaking as an amateur boat builder, you *do not* want your seams expanding and contracting at all, much less at different rates, depending on whether it rained last night. Cheers, Colin |
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