Home Builder Guys, What Would You Do?
 

Not getting much traction on the web forums out there, so I figured I'd
post here.

Specs:
1978 Ranch, Middle TN, Stud Framed, Rotted Masonite Siding- Covered in Vinyl

Due to moisture getting into garage I did some exploratory digging and
discovered that the garage was built on a floating slab with NO
footings. This is *not* a monolithic slab, just (-)4" concrete sitting
on soil. I don't even see gravel or a moisture barrier. At present, it
has lasted this long with no major cracks or severe settling, even with
exterior load bearing walls sitting on outer edge of the pad.
The rest of the house has proper footings and foundation block, creating
a crawl space.

The lack of proper footings is one issue. The other issue is that the
siding goes all the way down to the ground or at least to the concrete
pad which sits on the ground. This is improper in my opinion and I'd
like to rectify the situation.

The dirt was so high on this side of the house that it was at or above
the vinyl siding for much of the length. Rain water would puddle against
the siding, go under/behind it, soak into and saturate the old Masonite
siding, and wick into and underneath the sill plate, getting inside the
house. I dug all that dirt out and that's when I discovered the garage
pad without footings.

What I would like to do (in conjunction with a siding/style remodeling)
is to install a brick or stone knee wall on the lower third of the
exterior, with siding above. I know they make "stick-on" stones that
get put on with a skim coat of mortar. They also make faux-stone and
brick panels that are composite material.

So here's what I have to figure out.
1. Do I need to dig out and pour footings under the garage pad to
properly support the load above it?
2. What sort of footing do I need underneath the masonry knee wall? Even
if I use fake veneer stone, they will be attached to the wall, which
doesn't have proper footings.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Home Builder Guys, What Would You Do?
 

On 08/07/2016 2:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

.....[rest of description elided solely for brevity]...

What I would like to do (in conjunction with a siding/style remodeling)
is to install a brick or stone knee wall on the lower third of the
exterior, with siding above. I know they make "stick-on" stones that
get put on with a skim coat of mortar. They also make faux-stone and
brick panels that are composite material.

So here's what I have to figure out.
1. Do I need to dig out and pour footings under the garage pad to
properly support the load above it?
2. What sort of footing do I need underneath the masonry knee wall? Even
if I use fake veneer stone, they will be attached to the wall, which
doesn't have proper footings.

1) I'd say if its lasted this long w/o issues, that's pretty good
empirical evidence it's "good enough". Not UBC good, probably, but
"good enough".

2) It'll need enough to support it, obviously, and should be built to
prevent frost heave and all else of UBC specs. I'd plan on the two
being totally independent with nothing more than flex, non-loadbearing ties.

We had something very similar in the E TN house of precisely the same
vintage; while there was a footing, they placed a fieldstone veneer on
the outside that covered over the bottom 8" or so of the masonite siding
with only a mortar cap. It, of course, did the same thing as you've
described after a season and the mortar separated from the siding to let
water in. When actually discovered how bad it had gotten, there wasn't
any studs left in the end garage wall (fortunately, not loadbearing or
we'd undoubtedly have discovered it far earlier :) ). The solution
there was to replace the lower 2-ft or the wall framing with a new
section cutting off the existing even at the highest common point for
the junction. Then, resided but added a Z-flashing behind the siding
and over the top of the fieldstone to divert water. We left TN in 2000
but it had held up very well up to the then and no reason to think it
won't/hasn't since...oh, do _not_ use Al flashing for something such as
this; it'll react w/ the mortar--here's a place where the formed-onsite
vinyl is the "cat's meow".

HTH for some ideas, anyway...

Hmmm...wonder if...

/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ_VYO47QgRAstrMpPIkMPA!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656
unfortunately, can't really tell much other than it's still standing
(or was 5 yr ago still! :) ).

--



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Home Builder Guys, What Would You Do?
 

On 8/7/16 2:40 PM, dpb wrote:
On 08/07/2016 2:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

....[rest of description elided solely for brevity]...

What I would like to do (in conjunction with a siding/style
remodeling) is to install a brick or stone knee wall on the lower
third of the exterior, with siding above. I know they make
"stick-on" stones that get put on with a skim coat of mortar. They
also make faux-stone and brick panels that are composite material.

So here's what I have to figure out. 1. Do I need to dig out and
pour footings under the garage pad to properly support the load
above it? 2. What sort of footing do I need underneath the masonry
knee wall? Even if I use fake veneer stone, they will be attached
to the wall, which doesn't have proper footings.

1) I'd say if its lasted this long w/o issues, that's pretty good
empirical evidence it's "good enough". Not UBC good, probably, but
"good enough".

2) It'll need enough to support it, obviously, and should be built
to prevent frost heave and all else of UBC specs. I'd plan on the
two being totally independent with nothing more than flex,
non-loadbearing ties.

We had something very similar in the E TN house of precisely the
same vintage; while there was a footing, they placed a fieldstone
veneer on the outside that covered over the bottom 8" or so of the
masonite siding with only a mortar cap. It, of course, did the same
thing as you've described after a season and the mortar separated
from the siding to let water in. When actually discovered how bad it
had gotten, there wasn't any studs left in the end garage wall
(fortunately, not loadbearing or we'd undoubtedly have discovered it
far earlier :) ). The solution there was to replace the lower 2-ft
or the wall framing with a new section cutting off the existing even
at the highest common point for the junction. Then, resided but
added a Z-flashing behind the siding and over the top of the
fieldstone to divert water. We left TN in 2000 but it had held up
very well up to the then and no reason to think it won't/hasn't
since...oh, do _not_ use Al flashing for something such as this;
it'll react w/ the mortar--here's a place where the formed-onsite
vinyl is the "cat's meow".

HTH for some ideas, anyway...

Hmmm...wonder if...

/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ_VYO47QgRAstrMpPIkMPA!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656


unfortunately, can't really tell much other than it's still standing
(or was 5 yr ago still! :) ).


Thanks for the ideas. That's an attractive little house.

I was thinking the same thing about any *real* stone work having to be
separate from the house. A lot of newer homes around here with stone
knee walls have a painted flashing that goes under the siding, above,
and out over the capstones, below. Must be a new code thing.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Home Builder Guys, What Would You Do?
 

On 08/07/2016 2:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
....

I was thinking the same thing about any *real* stone work having to be
separate from the house. A lot of newer homes around here with stone
knee walls have a painted flashing that goes under the siding, above,
and out over the capstones, below. Must be a new code thing.

I don't think that it's really anything new; it's the only way it'll
ever really work. I think it just depends upon whether the
builder/inspector lived up to spec's or not; the house in E TN was in a
county subdivision not under an inspection other than habitability code
that only covered the most very basic of fire hazard, septic drainfield
sizing, etc.

--



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Home Builder Guys, What Would You Do?
 

On Sun, 7 Aug 2016 14:09:03 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

Not getting much traction on the web forums out there, so I figured I'd
post here.

Specs:
1978 Ranch, Middle TN, Stud Framed, Rotted Masonite Siding- Covered in Vinyl

Due to moisture getting into garage I did some exploratory digging and
discovered that the garage was built on a floating slab with NO
footings.

Call the local fire department donate as a practice house. Then
rebuild it right.

Sorry Mike your description made me do it.

Mark

Home Builder Guys, What Would You Do?
 

On 8/7/2016 2:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Not getting much traction on the web forums out there, so I figured I'd
post here.

Specs:
1978 Ranch, Middle TN, Stud Framed, Rotted Masonite Siding- Covered in
Vinyl

Due to moisture getting into garage I did some exploratory digging and
discovered that the garage was built on a floating slab with NO
footings. This is *not* a monolithic slab, just (-)4" concrete sitting
on soil. I don't even see gravel or a moisture barrier. At present, it
has lasted this long with no major cracks or severe settling, even with
exterior load bearing walls sitting on outer edge of the pad.
The rest of the house has proper footings and foundation block, creating
a crawl space.

The lack of proper footings is one issue. The other issue is that the
siding goes all the way down to the ground or at least to the concrete
pad which sits on the ground. This is improper in my opinion and I'd
like to rectify the situation.

The dirt was so high on this side of the house that it was at or above
the vinyl siding for much of the length. Rain water would puddle against
the siding, go under/behind it, soak into and saturate the old Masonite
siding, and wick into and underneath the sill plate, getting inside the
house. I dug all that dirt out and that's when I discovered the garage
pad without footings.

What I would like to do (in conjunction with a siding/style remodeling)
is to install a brick or stone knee wall on the lower third of the
exterior, with siding above. I know they make "stick-on" stones that
get put on with a skim coat of mortar. They also make faux-stone and
brick panels that are composite material.

So here's what I have to figure out.
1. Do I need to dig out and pour footings under the garage pad to
properly support the load above it?
2. What sort of footing do I need underneath the masonry knee wall? Even
if I use fake veneer stone, they will be attached to the wall, which
doesn't have proper footings.



Do you have a friend that is an engineer? ;~)

Home Builder Guys, What Would You Do?
 

On 8/7/16 8:01 PM, Leon wrote:

Do you have a friend that is an engineer? ;~)


Yes... emailed her.
But I figured I'd start gathering ideas.... even bad ones :-).... in
here first.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply