Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method then please let me know.

Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even and smooth surface on:
http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method then please let me know.

Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even and smooth surface on:
http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg

I would think that a stain would help see the growth rings. That's
its purpose, though perhaps a woodworking stain isn't the best
solution. Biologists have a number of stains they use for this sort
of thing. You might try your state's extension service.

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 11:24:00 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method then please let me know.

Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even and smooth surface on:
http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg

I would think that a stain would help see the growth rings. That's
its purpose, though perhaps a woodworking stain isn't the best
solution. Biologists have a number of stains they use for this sort
of thing. You might try your state's extension service.


I have used stains to help clarify the tree rings, but it is only after sanding to 1200 grit that I am able to see the rings. I only use stains if the sanding is not adequate enough which is rarely the case.

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:43:43 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 11:24:00 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method then please let me know.

Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even and smooth surface on:
http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg

I would think that a stain would help see the growth rings. That's
its purpose, though perhaps a woodworking stain isn't the best
solution. Biologists have a number of stains they use for this sort
of thing. You might try your state's extension service.


I have used stains to help clarify the tree rings, but it is only after sanding to 1200 grit that I am able to see the rings. I only use stains if the sanding is not adequate enough which is rarely the case.

But you said you couldn't see the rings because the sanding plugged up
the grain?

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 5:53:39 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:43:43 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 11:24:00 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method then please let me know.

Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even and smooth surface on:
http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg

I would think that a stain would help see the growth rings. That's
its purpose, though perhaps a woodworking stain isn't the best
solution. Biologists have a number of stains they use for this sort
of thing. You might try your state's extension service.


I have used stains to help clarify the tree rings, but it is only after sanding to 1200 grit that I am able to see the rings. I only use stains if the sanding is not adequate enough which is rarely the case.

But you said you couldn't see the rings because the sanding plugged up
the grain?

For most species I can see the rings despite the saw dust. The reason I want to cut rather than sand is that it will save time, money, and provide a better image when looking at rings that are only a few cells wide. For those who might be confused here is a pictures similar to what I am trying to achieve: http://www.wsl.ch/medien/news/video_...1/Picture2.png
http://cfile6.uf.tistory.com/image/2...56826992205E1A

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 15:01:33 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 5:53:39 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:43:43 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 11:24:00 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method then please let me know.

Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even and smooth surface on:
http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg

I would think that a stain would help see the growth rings. That's
its purpose, though perhaps a woodworking stain isn't the best
solution. Biologists have a number of stains they use for this sort
of thing. You might try your state's extension service.


I have used stains to help clarify the tree rings, but it is only after sanding to 1200 grit that I am able to see the rings. I only use stains if the sanding is not adequate enough which is rarely the case.

But you said you couldn't see the rings because the sanding plugged up
the grain?

For most species I can see the rings despite the saw dust.

I'd think the stain would help with that (again, perhaps not wood
stain).

The reason I want to cut rather than sand is that it will save time, money, and provide a better image when looking at rings that are only a few cells wide. For those who might be confused here is a pictures similar to what I am trying to achieve: http://www.wsl.ch/medien/news/video_...1/Picture2.png
http://cfile6.uf.tistory.com/image/2...56826992205E1A

Yes, that looks like a microtome that someone else was talking about.
I haven't seen one that long.

wrote in
:


For most species I can see the rings despite the saw dust. The reason
I want to cut rather than sand is that it will save time, money, and
provide a better image when looking at rings that are only a few cells
wide. For those who might be confused here is a pictures similar to
what I am trying to achieve:
http://www.wsl.ch/medien/news/video_...1/Picture2.png
http://cfile6.uf.tistory.com/image/2...56826992205E1A

Easy to duplicate. Take two sticks and place them on either side of the
work to be planed. Somehow (ok, this part isn't so easy) hold the core
steady and run the plane along with the smooth parts of the plane running
on the sticks. A block plane would be ideal, but a good jack plane will
be of some use.

Lee Valley has a variety of planes that are well worth looking at, from
the really inexpensive miniature planes to the unbelievably (until you
try it) expensive ones. The most important thing is getting a sharp
iron. If you can sharpen, you're all set. If not, well that's another
thread or 20... I'll just say for a standard plane iron the Work Sharp is
as close to "no experience but nicely sharp" as you can get.

If you actually want to save the slice, that will take a little more
effort.

Puckdropper

wrote:

Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method then please let me know.

Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even and smooth surface on:
http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg'

Dave Picciuto got pretty good results using both sandpaper and hand plane:

https://makesomething.tv/sites/defau.../cover02_0.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK7_F4kySZU

wrote:
Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil
sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying
to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using
sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or
electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface
when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method
then please let me know.

Got a microtome? Or a sharp knife or chisel? Razor blade?

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 6:27:03 AM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
wrote:
Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil
sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying
to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using
sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or
electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface
when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method
then please let me know.

Got a microtome? Or a sharp knife or chisel? Razor blade?

Is a microtome a place where really short people a buried?

Oh wait...that's not a b. ;-)

On 6/12/2016 6:26 AM, dadiOH wrote:
wrote:
Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil
sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying
to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using
sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or
electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface
when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method
then please let me know.

Got a microtome? Or a sharp knife or chisel? Razor blade?



A SHARP hand plane, adjusted to take light shavings, will work very
well. To avoid breakage, I'd make a jig to support the core. Dado a slot
as wide as the core in a board, but shallower, with an end stop, to hold
the core in place as you plane off the protruding top. Or build up a
slot along a core by tacking slightly thinner strips of wood alongside.

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 7:55:28 AM UTC-5, Larry Kraus wrote:


A SHARP hand plane, adjusted to take light shavings, will work very
well. To avoid breakage, I'd make a jig to support the core. Dado a slot
as wide as the core in a board, but shallower, with an end stop, to hold
the core in place as you plane off the protruding top. Or build up a
slot along a core by tacking slightly thinner strips of wood alongside.

Is getting/having more than one core sample possible? I'd try Larry's (very sharp plane, etal.) suggestion and, maybe, wet one sample... see if that softens the fibers for better/best/easier planing. Slow, not fast, planing strokes?

If the log/tree has some significant age to it, I'd like to see a pic of the log/tree/snag. I enjoy "visiting" old grandpa trees/snags and the like. When I come across old magestic(?) trees, I sometimes imagine what stories/life they could tell or have experienced.

Sonny

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 10:12:58 AM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 7:55:28 AM UTC-5, Larry Kraus wrote:


A SHARP hand plane, adjusted to take light shavings, will work very
well. To avoid breakage, I'd make a jig to support the core. Dado a slot
as wide as the core in a board, but shallower, with an end stop, to hold
the core in place as you plane off the protruding top. Or build up a
slot along a core by tacking slightly thinner strips of wood alongside.

Is getting/having more than one core sample possible? I'd try Larry's (very sharp plane, etal.) suggestion and, maybe, wet one sample... see if that softens the fibers for better/best/easier planing. Slow, not fast, planing strokes?

If the log/tree has some significant age to it, I'd like to see a pic of the log/tree/snag. I enjoy "visiting" old grandpa trees/snags and the like. When I come across old magestic(?) trees, I sometimes imagine what stories/life they could tell or have experienced.

Sonny

Here is a 250+ Sugar Maple tree
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...nt=photo%2cJPG

A 239 year old live oak
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...nt=photo%2cJPG

A 300+ year old Green Ash
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...nt=photo%2cJPG

And a 225 year old Eastern Red Cedar
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...nt=photo%2cJPG

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 8:55:28 AM UTC-4, Larry Kraus wrote:
On 6/12/2016 6:26 AM, dadiOH wrote:
wrote:
Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil
sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying
to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using
sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or
electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface
when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method
then please let me know.

Got a microtome? Or a sharp knife or chisel? Razor blade?



A SHARP hand plane, adjusted to take light shavings, will work very
well. To avoid breakage, I'd make a jig to support the core. Dado a slot
as wide as the core in a board, but shallower, with an end stop, to hold
the core in place as you plane off the protruding top. Or build up a
slot along a core by tacking slightly thinner strips of wood alongside.

Thanks for the suggestion. Do you have any recommendations for a brand or type or hand plane I should use?

On 6/11/2016 10:12 PM, wrote:
Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method then please let me know.

Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even and smooth surface on:
http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg

I would try a a quality card scraper before I'd try a hand plane.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...=1,310&p=41069


--
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

wrote:
Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil
sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to
count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper,
which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner
catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a
microscope? If anyone knows of a better method then please let me know.

Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even and smooth surface on:
http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg


Have you sharpened your core sampler lately. Hone its cutting surface.

Three things I'd try:
Bore a hole in a wood scrap, put the stick in and wedge it, and fill with paraffin wax. Then,
with a heavy workbench vise, you can hold it still for a swipe or two with a sharp plane.
Low-angle (block) plane would be suitable, maybe a final pass or three with a card scraper.
Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a crosscut pass with a steel plywood blade in
a table saw.
Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a light pass with a straight carbide router bit.

Planing a loose knot is a close approximation to the task you have ahead of
you; making it a NOT-loose knot would be a high priority.

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 11:57:03 AM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
Three things I'd try:
Bore a hole in a wood scrap, put the stick in and wedge it, and fill with paraffin wax. Then,
with a heavy workbench vise, you can hold it still for a swipe or two with a sharp plane.
Low-angle (block) plane would be suitable, maybe a final pass or three with a card scraper.
Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a crosscut pass with a steel plywood blade in
a table saw.
Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a light pass with a straight carbide router bit.

Planing a loose knot is a close approximation to the task you have ahead of
you; making it a NOT-loose knot would be a high priority.

This sounds like instructions for planing the end of his "stick", like the end grain of a dowel. Am I thinking correctly?

I think he wants to plane along the length of the stick, which is a core sample, which the end grain is along its length, is perpendicular to the length.

Sonny

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 1:57:12 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 11:57:03 AM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
Three things I'd try:
Bore a hole in a wood scrap, put the stick in and wedge it, and fill with paraffin wax. Then,
with a heavy workbench vise, you can hold it still for a swipe or two with a sharp plane.
Low-angle (block) plane would be suitable, maybe a final pass or three with a card scraper.
Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a crosscut pass with a steel plywood blade in
a table saw.
Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a light pass with a straight carbide router bit.

Planing a loose knot is a close approximation to the task you have ahead of
you; making it a NOT-loose knot would be a high priority.

This sounds like instructions for planing the end of his "stick", like the end grain of a dowel. Am I thinking correctly?

I think he wants to plane along the length of the stick, which is a core sample, which the end grain is along its length, is perpendicular to the length.

Sonny

That's correct. Wit3rd, are you thinking of encasing the core in wax and then shaving off small sections with a planner?

wrote:
On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 1:57:12 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 11:57:03 AM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
Three things I'd try:
Bore a hole in a wood scrap, put the stick in and wedge it, and
fill with paraffin wax. Then, with a heavy workbench vise, you
can hold it still for a swipe or two with a sharp plane.
Low-angle (block) plane would be suitable, maybe a final pass or
three with a card scraper.
Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a crosscut pass with a
steel plywood blade in a table saw.
Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a light pass with a
straight carbide router bit.

Planing a loose knot is a close approximation to the task you have
ahead of
you; making it a NOT-loose knot would be a high priority.

This sounds like instructions for planing the end of his "stick",
like the end grain of a dowel. Am I thinking correctly?

I think he wants to plane along the length of the stick, which is a
core sample, which the end grain is along its length, is
perpendicular to the length.

Sonny

That's correct. Wit3rd, are you thinking of encasing the core in wax
and then shaving off small sections with a planner?

Ah, the LENGTH. In that case, forget the microtome et al, a hand plane will
do the job but it must be sharp. For what you want, I'd think a block plane
would be the thing, just rig some way of keeping the core immobile.

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 5:24:22 PM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
wrote:
On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 1:57:12 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 11:57:03 AM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
Three things I'd try:
Bore a hole in a wood scrap, put the stick in and wedge it, and
fill with paraffin wax. Then, with a heavy workbench vise, you
can hold it still for a swipe or two with a sharp plane.
Low-angle (block) plane would be suitable, maybe a final pass or
three with a card scraper.
Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a crosscut pass with a
steel plywood blade in a table saw.
Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a light pass with a
straight carbide router bit.

Planing a loose knot is a close approximation to the task you have
ahead of
you; making it a NOT-loose knot would be a high priority.

This sounds like instructions for planing the end of his "stick",
like the end grain of a dowel. Am I thinking correctly?

I think he wants to plane along the length of the stick, which is a
core sample, which the end grain is along its length, is
perpendicular to the length.

Sonny

That's correct. Wit3rd, are you thinking of encasing the core in wax
and then shaving off small sections with a planner?

Ah, the LENGTH. In that case, forget the microtome et al, a hand plane will
do the job but it must be sharp. For what you want, I'd think a block plane
would be the thing, just rig some way of keeping the core immobile.

Ok thanks, i'll look into that.

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 10:57:12 AM UTC-7, Sonny wrote:
On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 11:57:03 AM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
Three things I'd try:
Bore a hole in a wood scrap, put the stick in and wedge it, and fill with paraffin wax. ...

This sounds like instructions for planing the end of his "stick", like the end grain of a dowel. Am I thinking correctly?

I think he wants to plane along the length of the stick,

AH, a light dawns. I'd still recommend the same thing, but for a 16" long item, you get the hole
by grooving two boards and fastening 'em around the stick.

Maybe a bead of hotmelt glue or construction adhesive would be better than wax...

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method

stabilize the wood with acrylic resin in a vacuum pot
then slice it

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 3:47:08 PM UTC-4, Electric Comet wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method

stabilize the wood with acrylic resin in a vacuum pot
then slice it

I've never heard of a vacuum pot before. Is that needed to stabilize the wood in resin?

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:59:14 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

I've never heard of a vacuum pot before. Is that needed to stabilize
the wood in resin?

it forces the resin in to the wood

plenty of videos

of course you can diy a vacuum rig