i am considering getting a scrollsaw

what is the consensus here
i know there is always a consensus in harmony here

i found some info but a lot of it is a bit dated

what i know so far is that there are a few different methods for moving
the blade

not going with hf and here is a quote of a review from there

"I don't know why I keep letting myself get tempted to buy worthless
tool shaped objects from HF"

On 9/30/2015 2:38 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
i am considering getting a scrollsaw

what is the consensus here
i know there is always a consensus in harmony here

i found some info but a lot of it is a bit dated

what i know so far is that there are a few different methods for moving
the blade

not going with hf and here is a quote of a review from there

"I don't know why I keep letting myself get tempted to buy worthless
tool shaped objects from HF"















I have a dewalt.. love it.
The excallibur is excellent, and tilts the frame rather than the table.

Look for used.

Of course if you really get into it, the Hegner and RB are the way to
go. but first dip your feet.
Buy yourself a set of reading glassed 3.0 for working fine lines.

--
Jeff

On 9/30/2015 1:46 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 9/30/2015 2:38 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
i am considering getting a scrollsaw

what is the consensus here
i know there is always a consensus in harmony here

i found some info but a lot of it is a bit dated

what i know so far is that there are a few different methods for moving
the blade

not going with hf and here is a quote of a review from there

"I don't know why I keep letting myself get tempted to buy worthless
tool shaped objects from HF"



I have a dewalt.. love it.
The excallibur is excellent, and tilts the frame rather than the table.

Look for used.

Of course if you really get into it, the Hegner and RB are the way to
go. but first dip your feet.
Buy yourself a set of reading glassed 3.0 for working fine lines.



I no longer have a scroll saw but many years did have a Delta, POS.

I believe that scroll saws are a bit like band saws. Inexpensive ones
are going to always need some kind of tweaking. Life is too short for
aggravating equipment, IMHO.

Anyway those that woodchucker mentioned have always had good reviews.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

I believe that scroll saws are a bit like band saws. Inexpensive ones
are going to always need some kind of tweaking. Life is too short for
aggravating equipment, IMHO.

I think scrollsaws are like bandsaws in that the blade makes
much more difference than the saw.

That said, in the little scrollsawing I've done, the biggest
annoyance was sawdust collecting on the line I was trying to
follow, so I'd say a good dust blower is the important feature
to look for.

John

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 4:32:33 PM UTC-5, John McCoy wrote:

That said, in the little scrollsawing I've done, the biggest
annoyance was sawdust collecting on the line I was trying to
follow, so I'd say a good dust blower is the important feature
to look for.

One of my friends does a lot on the scroll saw, and they have their own strange little community here. He loves his really large DeWalt. He had a couple of cheap ones, a Dremel and something else, and told me they were crap.. Weight is needed for dampening of vibration, and then of course accuracy of the saw's movements.

I would agree 100% about the dust blowing as well as collecting. Not one of the guys that I have met saw outside on the patio. They saw in the air conditioned garage, or a converted room in the house. In their cases, dust collection is a must.

Robert

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 15:19:12 -0700, wrote:

One of my friends does a lot on the scroll saw, and they have their own
strange little community here. He loves his really large DeWalt.

The Woodcraft store I used to work at used nothing but the DeWalts for
classes. Took a lickin' and kept on tickin'.

And yes, I could put a coin on edge and leave it there - vibration is
next to non-existent.

That was all over 5 years ago - the bean counters may have cheapened it
by now, but if not you can't beat it for the money. One review I
remember said it was "90% of a Hegner for 20% of the cost."

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 15:19:12 -0700 (PDT)
" wrote:

One of my friends does a lot on the scroll saw, and they have their
own strange little community here. He loves his really large

it is funny you say that because before i posted this message i looked
around at websites and noticed that there is some kind of scroll saw
sub-culture

different than wood turners
a lot wider audience of participants
but it is good because it is wood

there is some really beautiful and amazing work done on scroll saws
i had no idea

On 9/30/2015 4:30 PM, John McCoy wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

I believe that scroll saws are a bit like band saws. Inexpensive ones
are going to always need some kind of tweaking. Life is too short for
aggravating equipment, IMHO.

I think scrollsaws are like bandsaws in that the blade makes
much more difference than the saw.

That is the opposite of my experience. I had an 18" Rikon BS for a
brief period of time and it did well with no name brand blades,
sometimes, and never with a quality blade like Timberwolf. In fact
Timber wolf sent me replacement blades to remedy the tracking problem
with no luck. I had a couple of off brand blades made for the saw and
one did fine as well as the no name brand blade that came with the saw.

I returned the saw two weeks later because of that problem and other
issues and ordered a Laguna LT16HD band saw.
That was the end of my blade problems, period. I have a very low
tolerance level for having to tweak every setting when changing blades
and between saw operations days apart.

The Delta scroll saw that I had would almost vibrate off of the table
and could not hold on to the blade.

Now I will agree that a quality blade is most likely to perform well and
last longer but as far as tracking and cutting well the free throw in
blades that Laguna gave me with the saw were as easy to set up to track
perfectly on the saw as the Timberwolf blades and the Laguna Resaw King
blade.
Timberwolf was gracious enough to give me full credit on the 5 blades
that I previously purchased, for the 150" blades that fit the Laguna.

I understand that many people have better results with different brand
blades but my results with the Laguna are that the quality or brand of
blade does not matter.

Just so happens I have pictures. ;~)

These two show a fresh cut with a Laguna throw in blade. It appears it
was a 1/2" blade. I did this before the replacement Timberwolf blades
arrived.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

Pretty thin

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

This is a tiger maple veneer I cut with the Resaw King 1.25" blade. I
had a 4"x4"x36" piece that I wanted to use and not all of it.
The veneer is glued to the 1/2" thick regular maple drawer fronts.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

I had 26 drawer fronts to cover.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/









That said, in the little scrollsawing I've done, the biggest
annoyance was sawdust collecting on the line I was trying to
follow, so I'd say a good dust blower is the important feature
to look for.

John

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 15:39:31 -0500
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

I no longer have a scroll saw but many years did have a Delta, POS.

one site recommended them due to their lower price I think

I believe that scroll saws are a bit like band saws. Inexpensive
ones are going to always need some kind of tweaking. Life is too
short for aggravating equipment, IMHO.

i try to never aggravate my equipment
and life is too short in any case

On 9/30/2015 8:15 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 15:39:31 -0500
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

I no longer have a scroll saw but many years did have a Delta, POS.

one site recommended them due to their lower price I think

I believe that scroll saws are a bit like band saws. Inexpensive
ones are going to always need some kind of tweaking. Life is too
short for aggravating equipment, IMHO.

i try to never aggravate my equipment

You say that here but I wonder if that is the truth. ;~)

On Thu, 1 Oct 2015 08:29:07 -0500
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

You say that here but I wonder if that is the truth. ;~)

now the wood is another story

i got some oak logs cut fresh and decided to rough turn them while wet
very rough and nothing concave or convex just a cylinder

then i stored them indoors on some bricks so it was cool and dry

they split all the way to the center and along the length of the piece
not just a hairline either
8 inch diameter and the split at the edge was about 3/8 inch

i will let them sit longer and eventually salvage much smaller pieces
from them after i cut them in half along the split

On 9/30/2015 1:46 PM, woodchucker wrote:



I have a dewalt.. love it.
The excallibur is excellent, and tilts the frame rather than the table.

Look for used.

Surprisingly, Craigslist - wherever you happen to be - generally seems
to have a number of the Hegner scroll saws within driving distance.

Some great deals to be had. I got their top of the line model -
Polymax, 20",somewhat vintage, but working like a charm - on Craigslist
at a price that made me think I should be wearing gloves and maskg

Contacted the manufacturer's rep out east, picked up some missing parts
and upgraded the tensioner. I don't think I have much over $500 total
invested in a $2900 plus shipping tool.


Of course if you really get into it, the Hegner and RB are the way to
go. but first dip your feet.
Buy yourself a set of reading glassed 3.0 for working fine lines.


Good tip on the glasses. I find the magnifying glass light to be more
of a hindrance than a help.

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 14:46:11 -0400
woodchucker wrote:

I have a dewalt.. love it.
The excallibur is excellent, and tilts the frame rather than the
table.

i will keep my eye out for a dewalt

Look for used.

always do but will probably have to get new unless i am lucky

Of course if you really get into it, the Hegner and RB are the way to
go. but first dip your feet.

those are like the festool of scroll saws

i saw a video of an eclipse and it was taken at a trade show
the unit had a window in the side to see the inner workings but i also
saw a circuit board

still puzzled over why it had a circuit board

Buy yourself a set of reading glassed 3.0 for working fine lines.

right now good lighting is enough but will probably need something later

i am considering getting a scrollsaw

what is the consensus here
i know there is always a consensus in harmony here

i found some info but a lot of it is a bit dated

what i know so far is that there are a few different methods for moving
the blade ... not going with hf and here is a quote of a review from there

"I don't know why I keep letting myself get tempted to buy worthless
tool shaped objects from HF"
Electric Comet

I have a DeWalt and love it. It cuts thru everything I have thrown at
it and keeps going great.

That said, I hope one day to upgrade to the Excaliber which are about
double the price, but very well worth it imho, if you scroll a lot.

If you can find a good used Excaliber, Henger or RBI Hawk for a
reasonable price, you would probably be very pleased. I don't know
anyone with an Excalibur who isn't happy.

I got my DeWalt off a guy only selling it because he won an Excaliber
and his wife wouldn't let him keep both in the house. He had health
issues, on oxygen, and had to stay indoors.

As a side note, I have a small bandsaw (3-wheel gift from FiL) that I
use to bulk cut wood for scrollsaw, carving or pyrography. It works
well but no way it can do what the DeWalt can do in detail.

Hope that helps!

On Thu, 01 Oct 2015 14:24:49 -0400
Casper wrote:

I have a DeWalt and love it. It cuts thru everything I have thrown at
it and keeps going great.

the cheaper the better and i doubt i will want to upgrade later as this is
really just for doing decorative features that are part of a larger whole
piece

so mid-range but not garbage is what i am trying for

i think the delta 40-694 and dewalt 788 share some heritage

i watched a video on the 788 and the design of the saw action makes a
lot of sense

the guy talked about the needle bearings drying out
he used valvoline synthetic grease with a specially rigged grease gun
it has 32 needle bearings

i saw another video of a guy assembling the 40-694 and they must be
literally from the same mold and the delta $100 cheaper

On 10/1/2015 6:46 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Thu, 01 Oct 2015 14:24:49 -0400
Casper wrote:

I have a DeWalt and love it. It cuts thru everything I have thrown at
it and keeps going great.

the cheaper the better and i doubt i will want to upgrade later as this is
really just for doing decorative features that are part of a larger whole
piece

so mid-range but not garbage is what i am trying for

i think the delta 40-694 and dewalt 788 share some heritage

i watched a video on the 788 and the design of the saw action makes a
lot of sense

the guy talked about the needle bearings drying out
he used valvoline synthetic grease with a specially rigged grease gun
it has 32 needle bearings

i saw another video of a guy assembling the 40-694 and they must be
literally from the same mold and the delta $100 cheaper















The delta is not the same imho.


--
Jeff

On Thu, 1 Oct 2015 20:50:12 -0400
woodchucker wrote:

The delta is not the same imho.

they look very similar but will have to look into it some more

the on/off and the tension adjuster look the same

and the base also looks the same

i wonder do dewalt and delta share some past

Electric Comet wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2015 20:50:12 -0400
woodchucker wrote:

The delta is not the same imho.
they look very similar but will have to look into it some more

the on/off and the tension adjuster look the same

and the base also looks the same

i wonder do dewalt and delta share some past



I would choose the Dewalt because I feel more confident that it would be
better supported
when I need replacement parts.

the cheaper the better and i doubt i will want to upgrade later as this is
really just for doing decorative features that are part of a larger whole
piece

Definitely up to you. After comparing and trying some different saws,
I skipped the HF, Dremel, Craftsman, etc., in favor of the DeWalt.

so mid-range but not garbage is what i am trying for

i think the delta 40-694 and dewalt 788 share some heritage

They partially do. DeWalt is better imho. I have used both and know
scrollers who have had both and prefer the DeWalt.

i watched a video on the 788 and the design of the saw action makes a
lot of sense

the guy talked about the needle bearings drying out
he used valvoline synthetic grease with a specially rigged grease gun
it has 32 needle bearings

I've had mine now for 6-7 years and no bearing or other issues. There
is a grease available for the DeWalt. I have not yet needed it.

i saw another video of a guy assembling the 40-694 and they must be
literally from the same mold and the delta $100 cheaper
Electric Comet

Almost the same but the DeWalt, in many opinions, is better.

As I said, I got mine second hand and it runs like a champ. No issues
yet whatsoever. I saved 50% buying used and don't regret it.

Good luck!

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 10:32:31 -0400
Casper wrote:

Definitely up to you. After comparing and trying some different saws,
I skipped the HF, Dremel, Craftsman, etc., in favor of the DeWalt.

one guy mentioned that the dewalt has a more aggressive cut and that
makes it hard to use for delicate work

They partially do. DeWalt is better imho. I have used both and know
scrollers who have had both and prefer the DeWalt.

delta has really allowed their name to be tainted by not providing
replacement parts for previous equipment

i read that everywhere

i have a delta bandsaw i bought used but was hardly used and it has
not needed any parts but it seems like there are a lot of these saws
out there so maybe parts can be had but that is another topic

I've had mine now for 6-7 years and no bearing or other issues. There
is a grease available for the DeWalt. I have not yet needed it.

you may have the right year
like everything else they shipped all the work to asia and quality went
down
i read this in many places

Almost the same but the DeWalt, in many opinions, is better.

there isn't a lot of info on the delta
i think delta really will not recover from the bad reputation they have
earned

As I said, I got mine second hand and it runs like a champ. No issues
yet whatsoever. I saved 50% buying used and don't regret it.

i have no problem at all buying used
my problem is that there are not many used for sale in the area

On 10/2/2015 11:08 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 10:32:31 -0400
Casper wrote:

Definitely up to you. After comparing and trying some different saws,
I skipped the HF, Dremel, Craftsman, etc., in favor of the DeWalt.

one guy mentioned that the dewalt has a more aggressive cut and that
makes it hard to use for delicate work

IIRC that was on the Tiawaneese later built models, not the older models.



They partially do. DeWalt is better imho. I have used both and know
scrollers who have had both and prefer the DeWalt.

delta has really allowed their name to be tainted by not providing
replacement parts for previous equipment

Delta is not really Delta as we all knew anymore. They are a lot like
Rockwell. Rockwell once built a really great product 25+ years ago.
Some one has bought the Rockwell name and sells their tools under the
Rockwell name. The latest Delta owners manufacture a few machines here,
including the latest Unisaw but a lot of their machines are being
manufactured for them.





i read that everywhere

i have a delta bandsaw i bought used but was hardly used and it has
not needed any parts but it seems like there are a lot of these saws
out there so maybe parts can be had but that is another topic

There are probably several OEM places to get parts.



I've had mine now for 6-7 years and no bearing or other issues. There
is a grease available for the DeWalt. I have not yet needed it.

you may have the right year
like everything else they shipped all the work to asia and quality went
down
i read this in many places

Asian quality is what the importer specifies. SawStop and the
Powermatic 2000 table saws are pretty much the standard these days and
are top quality. Both are Asian build, USA designed. The Delta Unisaw
was the standard for decades but QC and the bean counters let that slip
away.


Almost the same but the DeWalt, in many opinions, is better.

there isn't a lot of info on the delta
i think delta really will not recover from the bad reputation they have
earned

That may be true but there will be a new crop of those that don't know
any better. Delta will probably follow in the footsteps as B&D &
Rockwell riding on the name.




As I said, I got mine second hand and it runs like a champ. No issues
yet whatsoever. I saved 50% buying used and don't regret it.

i have no problem at all buying used
my problem is that there are not many used for sale in the area

Electric Comet wrote in news:muma2l$7gb$1
@dont-email.me:

delta has really allowed their name to be tainted by not providing
replacement parts for previous equipment

Which is sad. Years ago I had to take my tablesaw apart to
move it, and when I put it back together I found one of the
odd shape spacer/bolt things that hold the fence rails had
wandered off. I sent Delta a letter asking for the part
number so I could order a replacement, and they sent me the
part, gratis, just to keep me a happy customer.

John

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 11:38:38 -0700
Electric Comet wrote:

i am considering getting a scrollsaw

how are scrollsaws with cutting thick material say 1.5-4 inches thick

maybe need a more agressive blade but how do scrollsaws in general
perform with thicker stock

i just realized i have not seen any videos cutting thick stock

On 10/16/2015 11:42 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 11:38:38 -0700
Electric Comet wrote:

i am considering getting a scrollsaw

how are scrollsaws with cutting thick material say 1.5-4 inches thick

maybe need a more agressive blade but how do scrollsaws in general
perform with thicker stock

i just realized i have not seen any videos cutting thick stock



not very good.
I can't see 4 inches in a scroll saw. Yes for a band saw.

The largest stack of things I have cut is probably 1.5 inches thick.
Basically you stack your wood, wrap it with packing tape (which
lubricates and holds the stack together).

But 4".. NOT A SCROLL SAW.


--
Jeff

On 10/16/2015 8:42 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 11:38:38 -0700
Electric Comet wrote:

i am considering getting a scrollsaw

how are scrollsaws with cutting thick material say 1.5-4 inches thick

maybe need a more agressive blade but how do scrollsaws in general
perform with thicker stock

i just realized i have not seen any videos cutting thick stock


They do not do very well. I have done 2 by stock (1.5 inches) and it was
very slow going. The blade travel is not long enough to allow the saw
dust to properly clear out of the gullets.

Dan

Electric Comet wrote:

Electric Comet wrote:

i am considering getting a scrollsaw

how are scrollsaws with cutting thick material say 1.5-4 inches thick

maybe need a more agressive blade but how do scrollsaws in general
perform with thicker stock

i just realized i have not seen any videos cutting thick stock

From everything I read... My problem with a scroll saw is they cannot
cut straight. Don't know why, considering a jigsaw can cut reasonably
straight. I guess none of the blades are deep/wide enough? But that
doesn't make sense.

John Doe wrote in news:mvrptu$ov0$2@dont-
email.me:

From everything I read... My problem with a scroll saw is they cannot
cut straight. Don't know why, considering a jigsaw can cut reasonably
straight. I guess none of the blades are deep/wide enough? But that
doesn't make sense.

Well, since a scroll saw is designed to cut curves, perhaps
it's not surprising they don't cut straight.

My guess would be that the very thin blades cannot be tensioned
enough to avoid flex. Even a thin bandsaw blade is much larger
than a scroll saw blade, and a bandsaw frame is vastly stiffer
than a scroll saw frame.

John

John McCoy wrote:

John Doe wrote:

From everything I read... My problem with a scroll saw is they cannot
cut straight. Don't know why, considering a jigsaw can cut reasonably
straight. I guess none of the blades are deep/wide enough? But that
doesn't make sense.

Well, since a scroll saw is designed to cut curves, perhaps it's not
surprising they don't cut straight.

Jigsaws are designed to cut curves, too.

It just doesn't make sense, but that's what they say. Apparently they
are assuming the straight cut is going to be made more quickly with less
care. Otherwise you couldn't make accurate curved cuts either.

Professional scroll saws cut just fine. They raise the blade vertically
and pull it down vertically. Most are 'donkey' slant saw blade actions.

The jigsaw blades are just not long enough and tough enough for 4".

Martin

On 10/16/2015 6:14 PM, John McCoy wrote:
John Doe wrote in news:mvrptu$ov0$2@dont-
email.me:

From everything I read... My problem with a scroll saw is they cannot
cut straight. Don't know why, considering a jigsaw can cut reasonably
straight. I guess none of the blades are deep/wide enough? But that
doesn't make sense.

Well, since a scroll saw is designed to cut curves, perhaps
it's not surprising they don't cut straight.

My guess would be that the very thin blades cannot be tensioned
enough to avoid flex. Even a thin bandsaw blade is much larger
than a scroll saw blade, and a bandsaw frame is vastly stiffer
than a scroll saw frame.

John

On 10/16/2015 10:42 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 11:38:38 -0700
Electric Comet wrote:

i am considering getting a scrollsaw

how are scrollsaws with cutting thick material say 1.5-4 inches thick

I don't think the stroke on a scroll saw will let the teeth clear with
stock 1/2" or thicker.





maybe need a more agressive blade but how do scrollsaws in general
perform with thicker stock

i just realized i have not seen any videos cutting thick stock

how are scrollsaws with cutting thick material say 1.5-4 inches thick
maybe need a more agressive blade but how do scrollsaws in general
perform with thicker stock
i just realized i have not seen any videos cutting thick stock
Electric Comet

Normally I do not cut very thick pieces but I have cut 2.5 inch thick
on my DeWalt without a problem using a larger blade and going a bit
slower. I have seen 3 inches thick cut on a DeWalt. Not sure about
other scrollsaw brands. If I need thicker than 3 inches, I just move
over to my 3-wheel tabletop bandsaw with a 1/4 inch blade.

Here are a some vids on various thick cutting...

https://youtu.be/D47Mortk5X4

https://youtu.be/YXW55S4X9zo

https://youtu.be/_PGXbgQTNv8

Electric Comet wrote:

not going with hf and here is a quote of a review from there

"I don't know why I keep letting myself get tempted to buy worthless
tool shaped objects from HF"

LOL

Whenever passing that store, I avert my eyes. I do not like junk. Seems
like I'm always getting rid of junk, even without intentionally buying
junk. Nowadays is a good time to go with namebrand stuff and read
reviews, even if sometimes reviews are worthless or misleading. Shopping
is an art these days.

On 10/16/2015 5:20 PM, John Doe wrote:
Electric Comet wrote:

not going with hf and here is a quote of a review from there

"I don't know why I keep letting myself get tempted to buy worthless
tool shaped objects from HF"

LOL

Whenever passing that store, I avert my eyes. I do not like junk. Seems
like I'm always getting rid of junk, even without intentionally buying
junk. Nowadays is a good time to go with namebrand stuff and read
reviews, even if sometimes reviews are worthless or misleading. Shopping
is an art these days.

What you say makes sense, except for when the HF stuff is identical to
the name brand but sells for 30% of the price. As you say, shopping is
an art and you can find some gems amongst the garbage.

In article ,
says...

On 10/16/2015 5:20 PM, John Doe wrote:
Electric Comet wrote:

not going with hf and here is a quote of a review from there

"I don't know why I keep letting myself get tempted to buy worthless
tool shaped objects from HF"

LOL

Whenever passing that store, I avert my eyes. I do not like junk. Seems
like I'm always getting rid of junk, even without intentionally buying
junk. Nowadays is a good time to go with namebrand stuff and read
reviews, even if sometimes reviews are worthless or misleading. Shopping
is an art these days.

What you say makes sense, except for when the HF stuff is identical to
the name brand but sells for 30% of the price. As you say, shopping is
an art and you can find some gems amongst the garbage.

Yep. When everything is made in China, "name brand" is meaningless
unless the "name brand" is known to have enough experience dealing with
the Chinese to be able to get a decent product out of them--that's one
thing that the Japenese seem to do well--get decent product out of the
Chinese. If the Chinese ever figure out that to be big players with
high-value goods they need to set their _own_ quality standards rather
than building the cheapest thing they can get away with, they're going
to be dangerous. But that's a Japanese idea and given the past history
between China and Japan the Chinese are going to resist it to the end
(of course they are no different from American industry in that regard).

On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 10:06:41 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 10/16/2015 5:20 PM, John Doe wrote:
Electric Comet wrote:

not going with hf and here is a quote of a review from there

"I don't know why I keep letting myself get tempted to buy worthless
tool shaped objects from HF"

LOL

Whenever passing that store, I avert my eyes. I do not like junk. Seems
like I'm always getting rid of junk, even without intentionally buying
junk. Nowadays is a good time to go with namebrand stuff and read
reviews, even if sometimes reviews are worthless or misleading. Shopping
is an art these days.

What you say makes sense, except for when the HF stuff is identical to
the name brand but sells for 30% of the price. As you say, shopping is
an art and you can find some gems amongst the garbage.

Yep. When everything is made in China, "name brand" is meaningless
unless the "name brand" is known to have enough experience dealing with
the Chinese to be able to get a decent product out of them--that's one
thing that the Japenese seem to do well--get decent product out of the
Chinese. If the Chinese ever figure out that to be big players with
high-value goods they need to set their _own_ quality standards rather
than building the cheapest thing they can get away with, they're going
to be dangerous. But that's a Japanese idea and given the past history
between China and Japan the Chinese are going to resist it to the end
(of course they are no different from American industry in that regard).

The Japanese learned that lesson (it's not cultural). There is no
reason the Chinese can't, though there is no evidence of it yet.

The key to getting quality out of the Chinese is to sit there and
watch them do every operation. You can't test in quality but perhaps
you can test in honesty. This raises costs though, so it's less
likely to happen.

On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 09:54:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/16/2015 5:20 PM, John Doe wrote:
Electric Comet wrote:

not going with hf and here is a quote of a review from there

"I don't know why I keep letting myself get tempted to buy worthless
tool shaped objects from HF"

LOL

Whenever passing that store, I avert my eyes. I do not like junk. Seems
like I'm always getting rid of junk, even without intentionally buying
junk. Nowadays is a good time to go with namebrand stuff and read
reviews, even if sometimes reviews are worthless or misleading. Shopping
is an art these days.

What you say makes sense, except for when the HF stuff is identical to
the name brand but sells for 30% of the price. As you say, shopping is
an art and you can find some gems amongst the garbage.

I haven't seen any rebranded Festools there. ;-)

I'm sure some of the stuff is the same but just because it came off
the same manufacturing line. Many appliances are made by the same
manufacturers too, but they're made to different specs. That said,
I've found some decent stuff in HF but also some real trash. Enough
trash that I no longer look seriously at the power tools. It's a
great place to buy supplies like nitrile gloves, though.

krw wrote in
:


I haven't seen any rebranded Festools there. ;-)

I'm sure some of the stuff is the same but just because it came off
the same manufacturing line. Many appliances are made by the same
manufacturers too, but they're made to different specs. That said,
I've found some decent stuff in HF but also some real trash. Enough
trash that I no longer look seriously at the power tools. It's a
great place to buy supplies like nitrile gloves, though.

I'm not spending more than $20 on a tool at HF without first hitting the
Internet for reviews. Sometimes they'll have some very similar tools and
only one will get the good reviews. If you've got a smart phone, it's all
too easy to type in the 5 digits and see what pops up.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 10/17/2015 9:54 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/16/2015 5:20 PM, John Doe wrote:
Electric Comet wrote:

not going with hf and here is a quote of a review from there

"I don't know why I keep letting myself get tempted to buy worthless
tool shaped objects from HF"

LOL

Whenever passing that store, I avert my eyes. I do not like junk. Seems
like I'm always getting rid of junk, even without intentionally buying
junk. Nowadays is a good time to go with namebrand stuff and read
reviews, even if sometimes reviews are worthless or misleading. Shopping
is an art these days.

What you say makes sense, except for when the HF stuff is identical to
the name brand but sells for 30% of the price. As you say, shopping is
an art and you can find some gems amongst the garbage.

Yes and no.
Certainly in some cases they are the same.
But in others, sometimes they look the same, but there is a high set of
components, better bearings, better brushes, better metal in the gears.

For rebranded , they are probably the same, for some higher end stuff,
they _MAY_ have better components, and better QC.



--
Jeff

In article ,
says...

On 10/17/2015 9:54 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/16/2015 5:20 PM, John Doe wrote:
Electric Comet wrote:

not going with hf and here is a quote of a review from there

"I don't know why I keep letting myself get tempted to buy worthless
tool shaped objects from HF"

LOL

Whenever passing that store, I avert my eyes. I do not like junk. Seems
like I'm always getting rid of junk, even without intentionally buying
junk. Nowadays is a good time to go with namebrand stuff and read
reviews, even if sometimes reviews are worthless or misleading. Shopping
is an art these days.

What you say makes sense, except for when the HF stuff is identical to
the name brand but sells for 30% of the price. As you say, shopping is
an art and you can find some gems amongst the garbage.

Yes and no.
Certainly in some cases they are the same.
But in others, sometimes they look the same, but there is a high set of
components, better bearings, better brushes, better metal in the gears.

Better bearings or brushes maybe, but unless the gears are stock items
ordered from a catalog or the volume was immensely hight, making the
identical conformation in several different alloys would cost more than
it saved.

What they do seem to have in some cases though is plastic vs metal
gears.

For rebranded , they are probably the same, for some higher end stuff,
they _MAY_ have better components, and better QC.

i am considering getting a scrollsaw

what is the consensus here
i know there is always a consensus in harmony here

i found some info but a lot of it is a bit dated

what i know so far is that there are a few different methods for moving
the blade

not going with hf and here is a quote of a review from there

"I don't know why I keep letting myself get tempted to buy worthless
tool shaped objects from HF"
Electric Comet


You also might want to check this out...
http://scrollsawreviews.com/