Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198

On 9/15/15 2:36 PM, Leon wrote:
Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198


And you're back to work in 5 minutes, instead of heading out for a new
blade. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
On 9/15/15 2:36 PM, Leon wrote:
Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198


And you're back to work in 5 minutes, instead of heading out for a new
blade. :-)


Or headed to the ER.

--
GW Ross

Love is grand. Divorce is twenty grand.

On 9/15/15 3:51 PM, G. Ross wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 9/15/15 2:36 PM, Leon wrote:
Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198



And you're back to work in 5 minutes, instead of heading out for a new
blade. :-)


Or headed to the ER.


You know this is "saw-stop" alternative that prevents damage to human
flesh, right?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/15/2015 3:34 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 9/15/15 2:36 PM, Leon wrote:
Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198



And you're back to work in 5 minutes, instead of heading out for a new
blade. :-)


Only if you don't have but the one blade. LOL

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado King set.

It will be interesting to see of SawStop has a position on the blade
continuing to spin after dropping vs. their set up.

-MIKE- wrote:
On 9/15/15 3:51 PM, G. Ross wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 9/15/15 2:36 PM, Leon wrote:
Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198



And you're back to work in 5 minutes, instead of heading out for a new
blade. :-)


Or headed to the ER.


You know this is "saw-stop" alternative that prevents damage to human
flesh, right?


Yea. I was thinking of the alternative to no saw-stop at all.

--
GW Ross

Any bureaucracy re-organized to
enhance efficiency is
indistinguishable from its predecessor.

On 9/15/2015 7:02 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/15/2015 3:34 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 9/15/15 2:36 PM, Leon wrote:
Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198




And you're back to work in 5 minutes, instead of heading out for a new
blade. :-)


Only if you don't have but the one blade. LOL

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado King set.

It will be interesting to see of SawStop has a position on the blade
continuing to spin after dropping vs. their set up.


I don't care if it spins as long as it works and does not bite me.
Competition is a good thing.

On 9/15/2015 3:36 PM, Leon wrote:
Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198


nice, but will it stand up in court. Seems like it's infringing on the
use of the sensing technology, which is really a gfci test.

The lowering is different than saw stop, so I don't see that as a risk.

Again, this is job site, not a cabinet saw.

--
Jeff

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 14:36:36 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

The fat lady hasn't taken the stage.

http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/sawstop...lawsuit-85068/

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 20:59:23 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/15/2015 7:02 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/15/2015 3:34 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 9/15/15 2:36 PM, Leon wrote:
Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198




And you're back to work in 5 minutes, instead of heading out for a new
blade. :-)


Only if you don't have but the one blade. LOL

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado King set.

It will be interesting to see of SawStop has a position on the blade
continuing to spin after dropping vs. their set up.


I don't care if it spins as long as it works and does not bite me.
Competition is a good thing.

Exactly. As long as there is competition. Gass tried to change that,
though. I don't think it matters that much anymore, though. The
patents will expire in a few years (2019, IIRC).

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:02:10 -0400, woodchucker
wrote:

On 9/15/2015 3:36 PM, Leon wrote:
Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198


nice, but will it stand up in court. Seems like it's infringing on the
use of the sensing technology, which is really a gfci test.

No, it's significantly different. A least SawStop measures
capacitance, not leakage. The difference might not be obvious to you
but it's significant enough.

The lowering is different than saw stop, so I don't see that as a risk.

IIRC (it's been a while since I read the patents) the patents claim a
blade that retracts when triggered. It doesn't matter how it
retracts.

Again, this is job site, not a cabinet saw.

It's still a measure of Gass' patents. If nothing else, he's a good
patent lawyer. We'll see if Bosch has better. I'm really surprised
Bosch challenged them now.

On 9/15/2015 7:59 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/15/2015 7:02 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/15/2015 3:34 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 9/15/15 2:36 PM, Leon wrote:
Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty
good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198





And you're back to work in 5 minutes, instead of heading out for a new
blade. :-)


Only if you don't have but the one blade. LOL

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado King
set.

It will be interesting to see of SawStop has a position on the blade
continuing to spin after dropping vs. their set up.


I don't care if it spins as long as it works and does not bite me.
Competition is a good thing.

Hell Yeah.

But we not being experts about this technology it would be a good thing
to hear their take. They might divulge something we might overlook.
And it would be up to us to determine if it was worth hearing. Either
way I think, if I were in the market, that I would want to hear
reasoning for details from both sides.

On 9/15/2015 8:11 PM, krw wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 20:59:23 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/15/2015 7:02 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/15/2015 3:34 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 9/15/15 2:36 PM, Leon wrote:
Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198




And you're back to work in 5 minutes, instead of heading out for a new
blade. :-)


Only if you don't have but the one blade. LOL

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado King set.

It will be interesting to see of SawStop has a position on the blade
continuing to spin after dropping vs. their set up.


I don't care if it spins as long as it works and does not bite me.
Competition is a good thing.

Exactly. As long as there is competition. Gass tried to change that,
though. I don't think it matters that much anymore, though. The
patents will expire in a few years (2019, IIRC).


You are rehashing what is done and cannot be changed.
Would you not really like to see and hear explanations of the
differences by both parties IF you were in the market. Would you use
choice reasoning from what you were impressed by, or hearing from
either brand that it works.

On 9/15/2015 8:02 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 9/15/2015 3:36 PM, Leon wrote:
Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198



nice, but will it stand up in court. Seems like it's infringing on the
use of the sensing technology, which is really a gfci test.

Could you actually prove that comment, or speculation? Certainly
SawStop would be on to them and it would be in the news already.





The lowering is different than saw stop, so I don't see that as a risk.

Lowering? The SawStop lowers the blade during breaking too and pretty
much with the same principal of the reloading of the arbor after a trigger.





Again, this is job site, not a cabinet saw.

On 9/15/2015 8:08 PM, krw wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 14:36:36 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

The fat lady hasn't taken the stage.

Actually she has. The saw is on the market, that is all it had to do.
This has been no secret and litigation would have stopped sales until
settled. That may have happened but the end result is that you can now
buy this feature on both brands.





http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/sawstop...lawsuit-85068/

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198

On 9/15/15 6:02 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/15/2015 3:34 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 9/15/15 2:36 PM, Leon wrote:
Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198




And you're back to work in 5 minutes, instead of heading out for a new
blade. :-)


Only if you don't have but the one blade. LOL

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado King set.

It will be interesting to see of SawStop has a position on the blade
continuing to spin after dropping vs. their set up.


Wait, I'm confused. The Bosch doesn't damage the blade, right?
So you flip the trigger over and you're back to work.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:02:10 -0400, woodchucker
wrote:

On 9/15/2015 3:36 PM, Leon wrote:
Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198


nice, but will it stand up in court. Seems like it's infringing on the
use of the sensing technology, which is really a gfci test.

No, it's significantly different. A least SawStop measures
capacitance, not leakage. The difference might not be obvious to you
but it's significant enough.

The lowering is different than saw stop, so I don't see that as a risk.

IIRC (it's been a while since I read the patents) the patents claim a
blade that retracts when triggered. It doesn't matter how it
retracts.

Again, this is job site, not a cabinet saw.

It's still a measure of Gass' patents. If nothing else, he's a good
patent lawyer. We'll see if Bosch has better. I'm really surprised
Bosch challenged them now.

Maybe he ****ed them off. He seems good at ****ing people off.

-MIKE- wrote:
On 9/15/15 6:02 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/15/2015 3:34 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 9/15/15 2:36 PM, Leon wrote:
Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198




And you're back to work in 5 minutes, instead of heading out for a new
blade. :-)


Only if you don't have but the one blade. LOL

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado King set.

It will be interesting to see of SawStop has a position on the blade
continuing to spin after dropping vs. their set up.


Wait, I'm confused. The Bosch doesn't damage the blade, right?
So you flip the trigger over and you're back to work.



Strictly from a safety point of view. Technically the SS has the drop down
as an additional line of defense. Just as a possible example, either saw
could possibly jam from a build up of debris and the blade might not drop.
Then the SS might be the better setup with redundant safety.

On 09/15/2015 6:02 PM, Leon wrote:
....

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado King set.
....

Was a sidebar article in FWW a few months ago -- most times it appears
blades can be repaired after a SS crash. I was quite surprised how
little actual damage was incurred the blade in the one shown; the Al
brake material is quite lot soft so it just deforms not causing all that
much havoc and destruction as one imagines will be...I suspect the
laundry bill will still be nearly as expensive after any event

--

dpb wrote:
On 09/15/2015 6:02 PM, Leon wrote:
...

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado King set.
...

Was a sidebar article in FWW a few months ago -- most times it appears
blades can be repaired after a SS crash. I was quite surprised how
little actual damage was incurred the blade in the one shown; the Al
brake material is quite lot soft so it just deforms not causing all that
much havoc and destruction as one imagines will be...I suspect the
laundry bill will still be nearly as expensive after any event

--

I too have heard that the brake does not necessarily damage the blade
beyond repair. But considering that, new SS cartridge $80-90. And to
simply sharpen a Forrest II 40 tooth blade plus shipping both ways is just
shy of $50. Repairs would be on top of that. So in this example, the SS
expense would be $150 minimum.

Considering that, the Bosch wins hands down. But you have to consider that
the Bosch only uses one line of defense to prevent you from being cut
during a trigger. While both saws use the drop down feature to protect
you if that feature was compromised with perhaps a build up of debris that
prevented the blade from dropping below the surface the redundant brake
feature might be the air bag thar assists the seat belt.

On 09/16/2015 8:43 AM, Leon wrote:
wrote:
On 09/15/2015 6:02 PM, Leon wrote:
...

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado King set.
...

Was a sidebar article in FWW a few months ago -- most times it appears
blades can be repaired after a SS crash. I was quite surprised how
little actual damage was incurred the blade in the one shown; the Al
brake material is quite lot soft so it just deforms not causing all that
much havoc and destruction as one imagines will be...I suspect the
laundry bill will still be nearly as expensive after any event

--

I too have heard that the brake does not necessarily damage the blade
beyond repair. But considering that, new SS cartridge $80-90. And to
simply sharpen a Forrest II 40 tooth blade plus shipping both ways is just
shy of $50. Repairs would be on top of that. So in this example, the SS
expense would be $150 minimum.

Considering that, the Bosch wins hands down. But you have to consider that
the Bosch only uses one line of defense to prevent you from being cut
during a trigger. While both saws use the drop down feature to protect
you if that feature was compromised with perhaps a build up of debris that
prevented the blade from dropping below the surface the redundant brake
feature might be the air bag thar assists the seat belt.

Not joining the argument but I'd say the likelihood of sufficient to
cause failure of the trip mechanism is miniscule at best and likely not
physically possible to accumulate sufficient mass of material in places
it would have to be to have caused same.

The far likelier issue w/ either is a sensor failure on demand I'd suspect.

--

On 9/16/2015 9:00 AM, dpb wrote:
On 09/16/2015 8:43 AM, Leon wrote:
wrote:
On 09/15/2015 6:02 PM, Leon wrote:
...

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado
King set.
...

Was a sidebar article in FWW a few months ago -- most times it appears
blades can be repaired after a SS crash. I was quite surprised how
little actual damage was incurred the blade in the one shown; the Al
brake material is quite lot soft so it just deforms not causing all that
much havoc and destruction as one imagines will be...I suspect the
laundry bill will still be nearly as expensive after any event

--

I too have heard that the brake does not necessarily damage the blade
beyond repair. But considering that, new SS cartridge $80-90. And to
simply sharpen a Forrest II 40 tooth blade plus shipping both ways is
just
shy of $50. Repairs would be on top of that. So in this example, the SS
expense would be $150 minimum.

Considering that, the Bosch wins hands down. But you have to consider
that
the Bosch only uses one line of defense to prevent you from being cut
during a trigger. While both saws use the drop down feature to protect
you if that feature was compromised with perhaps a build up of debris
that
prevented the blade from dropping below the surface the redundant brake
feature might be the air bag thar assists the seat belt.

Not joining the argument but I'd say the likelihood of sufficient to
cause failure of the trip mechanism is miniscule at best and likely not
physically possible to accumulate sufficient mass of material in places
it would have to be to have caused same.

The far likelier issue w/ either is a sensor failure on demand I'd suspect.

--

That is possible too. But debris build up could happen with a stray
chunk lodging in there somewhere, these mechanisms are pretty
complicated under the hood compared to a saw with out the safety
feature. But like you said it is unlikely for that to happen but if you
are paying a premium for a safety feature redundancy might be an advantage.

On 9/16/15 8:43 AM, Leon wrote:
dpb wrote:
On 09/15/2015 6:02 PM, Leon wrote: ...

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado
King set.
...

Was a sidebar article in FWW a few months ago -- most times it
appears blades can be repaired after a SS crash. I was quite
surprised how little actual damage was incurred the blade in the
one shown; the Al brake material is quite lot soft so it just
deforms not causing all that much havoc and destruction as one
imagines will be...I suspect the laundry bill will still be nearly
as expensive after any event

--

I too have heard that the brake does not necessarily damage the
blade beyond repair. But considering that, new SS cartridge $80-90.
And to simply sharpen a Forrest II 40 tooth blade plus shipping both
ways is just shy of $50. Repairs would be on top of that. So in
this example, the SS expense would be $150 minimum.

Considering that, the Bosch wins hands down. But you have to
consider that the Bosch only uses one line of defense to prevent you
from being cut during a trigger. While both saws use the drop down
feature to protect you if that feature was compromised with perhaps a
build up of debris that prevented the blade from dropping below the
surface the redundant brake feature might be the air bag thar assists
the seat belt.


Using that logic, you would have to say they are both insufficient and
shouldn't be trusted to save your fingers because they neither uses
*three* lines of defense to prevent you from being cut during a trigger.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/16/2015 11:00 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 9/16/15 8:43 AM, Leon wrote:
dpb wrote:
On 09/15/2015 6:02 PM, Leon wrote: ...

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado
King set.
...

Was a sidebar article in FWW a few months ago -- most times it
appears blades can be repaired after a SS crash. I was quite
surprised how little actual damage was incurred the blade in the
one shown; the Al brake material is quite lot soft so it just
deforms not causing all that much havoc and destruction as one
imagines will be...I suspect the laundry bill will still be nearly
as expensive after any event

--

I too have heard that the brake does not necessarily damage the
blade beyond repair. But considering that, new SS cartridge $80-90.
And to simply sharpen a Forrest II 40 tooth blade plus shipping both
ways is just shy of $50. Repairs would be on top of that. So in
this example, the SS expense would be $150 minimum.

Considering that, the Bosch wins hands down. But you have to
consider that the Bosch only uses one line of defense to prevent you
from being cut during a trigger. While both saws use the drop down
feature to protect you if that feature was compromised with perhaps a
build up of debris that prevented the blade from dropping below the
surface the redundant brake feature might be the air bag thar assists
the seat belt.


Using that logic, you would have to say they are both insufficient and
shouldn't be trusted to save your fingers because they neither uses
*three* lines of defense to prevent you from being cut during a trigger.



LOL. Yeah! But you have to start somewhere. Enter chain-mail into the
mix.

On 09/16/2015 9:41 AM, Leon wrote:
....

That is possible too. But debris build up could happen with a stray
chunk lodging in there somewhere, these mechanisms are pretty
complicated under the hood compared to a saw with out the safety
feature. But like you said it is unlikely for that to happen but if you
are paying a premium for a safety feature redundancy might be an advantage.

The complexity is in the electronics, however, not the mechanicals.

I'd also posit the SS "brake" isn't redundant; it only works if the
retraction is successful as the blade slamming into the pawl is the
brake--if it don't retract, it don't slam.

--

On 9/16/2015 9:24 AM, dpb wrote:
On 09/15/2015 6:02 PM, Leon wrote:
...

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado King
set.
...

Was a sidebar article in FWW a few months ago -- most times it appears
blades can be repaired after a SS crash. I was quite surprised how
little actual damage was incurred the blade in the one shown; the Al
brake material is quite lot soft so it just deforms not causing all that
much havoc and destruction as one imagines will be...I suspect the
laundry bill will still be nearly as expensive after any event

--

I think the plate might actually require straightening after. I can't
imagine that the forces would not cause any deformation while happening.

Looking at the carbide is one thing, having Forrest go over my plate was
another.

--
Jeff

On 9/16/2015 9:43 AM, Leon wrote:
dpb wrote:
On 09/15/2015 6:02 PM, Leon wrote:
...

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado King set.
...

Was a sidebar article in FWW a few months ago -- most times it appears
blades can be repaired after a SS crash. I was quite surprised how
little actual damage was incurred the blade in the one shown; the Al
brake material is quite lot soft so it just deforms not causing all that
much havoc and destruction as one imagines will be...I suspect the
laundry bill will still be nearly as expensive after any event

--

I too have heard that the brake does not necessarily damage the blade
beyond repair. But considering that, new SS cartridge $80-90. And to
simply sharpen a Forrest II 40 tooth blade plus shipping both ways is just
shy of $50. Repairs would be on top of that. So in this example, the SS
expense would be $150 minimum.

Considering that, the Bosch wins hands down. But you have to consider that
the Bosch only uses one line of defense to prevent you from being cut
during a trigger. While both saws use the drop down feature to protect
you if that feature was compromised with perhaps a build up of debris that
prevented the blade from dropping below the surface the redundant brake
feature might be the air bag thar assists the seat belt.


The big picture is.. you don't lose your finger.
So either is cheap by comparison.

If you triggered it for REAL its saved you thousands and pain.
If you triggered it falsely.. well then you are aggravated either way.
But the Bosch would be cheaper. But again, it's a small saw.

--
Jeff

On 9/16/2015 9:24 AM, dpb wrote:
....

Was a sidebar article in FWW a few months ago -- most times it appears
blades can be repaired after a SS crash. ...

I think the plate might actually require straightening after. I can't
imagine that the forces would not cause any deformation while happening.
....

Well, yes, that's routine every time you send them one, whether it's
been in a SS event or not...

--

On 9/16/2015 12:56 PM, dpb wrote:
On 09/16/2015 9:41 AM, Leon wrote:
...

That is possible too. But debris build up could happen with a stray
chunk lodging in there somewhere, these mechanisms are pretty
complicated under the hood compared to a saw with out the safety
feature. But like you said it is unlikely for that to happen but if you
are paying a premium for a safety feature redundancy might be an
advantage.

The complexity is in the electronics, however, not the mechanicals.

I'd also posit the SS "brake" isn't redundant; it only works if the
retraction is successful as the blade slamming into the pawl is the
brake--if it don't retract, it don't slam.

--

Wrong.
The brake is fired into the blade by a spring, regardless of the blade
dropping. It's that action that causes the blade to drop. It tries to
remove some of the inertia.

--
Jeff

On 9/16/2015 1:55 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 9/16/2015 9:24 AM, dpb wrote:
On 09/15/2015 6:02 PM, Leon wrote:
...

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado King
set.
...

Was a sidebar article in FWW a few months ago -- most times it appears
blades can be repaired after a SS crash. I was quite surprised how
little actual damage was incurred the blade in the one shown; the Al
brake material is quite lot soft so it just deforms not causing all that
much havoc and destruction as one imagines will be...I suspect the
laundry bill will still be nearly as expensive after any event

--

I think the plate might actually require straightening after. I can't
imagine that the forces would not cause any deformation while happening.

Looking at the carbide is one thing, having Forrest go over my plate was
another.



I'm sure the blade would have to be reflattened. IIRC Forrest charges
by time involved. So you are quickly coming up on just buying a new blade.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:39:53 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/16/2015 11:00 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 9/16/15 8:43 AM, Leon wrote:
dpb wrote:
On 09/15/2015 6:02 PM, Leon wrote: ...

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado
King set.
...

Was a sidebar article in FWW a few months ago -- most times it
appears blades can be repaired after a SS crash. I was quite
surprised how little actual damage was incurred the blade in the
one shown; the Al brake material is quite lot soft so it just
deforms not causing all that much havoc and destruction as one
imagines will be...I suspect the laundry bill will still be nearly
as expensive after any event

--

I too have heard that the brake does not necessarily damage the
blade beyond repair. But considering that, new SS cartridge $80-90.
And to simply sharpen a Forrest II 40 tooth blade plus shipping both
ways is just shy of $50. Repairs would be on top of that. So in
this example, the SS expense would be $150 minimum.

Considering that, the Bosch wins hands down. But you have to
consider that the Bosch only uses one line of defense to prevent you
from being cut during a trigger. While both saws use the drop down
feature to protect you if that feature was compromised with perhaps a
build up of debris that prevented the blade from dropping below the
surface the redundant brake feature might be the air bag thar assists
the seat belt.


Using that logic, you would have to say they are both insufficient and
shouldn't be trusted to save your fingers because they neither uses
*three* lines of defense to prevent you from being cut during a trigger.



LOL. Yeah! But you have to start somewhere. Enter chain-mail into the
mix.

That will just get caught and drag your extremities into the blade.
(going further out on the it could happen scale)

On 09/16/2015 2:50 PM, Leon wrote:
....

I'm sure the blade would have to be reflattened. IIRC Forrest charges by
time involved. So you are quickly coming up on just buying a new blade.

IIRC, the quoted repair on the one in question was 2/3rds new...I don't
know what just routine sharpening charge is but it's not uncommon to
have to have a tooth tip replace anyway and they always
retension/flatten so it's not like that's out of the ordinary. If it is
beyond cost-effectiveness, they'll tell ya'...

--

On 9/16/2015 11:56 AM, dpb wrote:
On 09/16/2015 9:41 AM, Leon wrote:
...

That is possible too. But debris build up could happen with a stray
chunk lodging in there somewhere, these mechanisms are pretty
complicated under the hood compared to a saw with out the safety
feature. But like you said it is unlikely for that to happen but if you
are paying a premium for a safety feature redundancy might be an
advantage.

The complexity is in the electronics, however, not the mechanicals.

I'd also posit the SS "brake" isn't redundant; it only works if the
retraction is successful as the blade slamming into the pawl is the
brake--if it don't retract, it don't slam.

--



Actually the brake slams into the blade and the force of the mass
transfers to a trip lever. Some how I tripped the lever, while fiddling
around down there and the arbor/brake/carriage assembly dropped to the
lower section of the saw. DAMHIDT. ;~) But there is a possibility that
something could interfere with the downward travel, though not very likely.
The brake "shoe" pivots on a steel rod on that carriage assembly. The
shoe under spring tension is held in place internally by a fusible link.
The fusible link is holding that compressed spring that forces the
shoe to pivot into the blade should the fusible link melt. And the
brake is curved with approximately the same diameter as the blade. The
brake "shoe" has to be adjusted to about 1/16 of actually touching the
blade. I have to make that adjustment every time I switch from my older
sharpened 10" blade to my unsharpened 8" dado set and visa versa.

So actually the SS brake begins to stop the blade before it drops the blade.

On 9/16/2015 1:59 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 9/16/2015 12:56 PM, dpb wrote:
On 09/16/2015 9:41 AM, Leon wrote:
...

That is possible too. But debris build up could happen with a stray
chunk lodging in there somewhere, these mechanisms are pretty
complicated under the hood compared to a saw with out the safety
feature. But like you said it is unlikely for that to happen but if you
are paying a premium for a safety feature redundancy might be an
advantage.

The complexity is in the electronics, however, not the mechanicals.

I'd also posit the SS "brake" isn't redundant; it only works if the
retraction is successful as the blade slamming into the pawl is the
brake--if it don't retract, it don't slam.

--

Wrong.
The brake is fired into the blade by a spring, regardless of the blade
dropping. It's that action that causes the blade to drop. It tries to
remove some of the inertia.


Precicely

On 9/16/2015 1:59 PM, dpb wrote:
On 9/16/2015 9:24 AM, dpb wrote:
...

Was a sidebar article in FWW a few months ago -- most times it appears
blades can be repaired after a SS crash. ...

I think the plate might actually require straightening after. I can't
imagine that the forces would not cause any deformation while happening.
...

Well, yes, that's routine every time you send them one, whether it's
been in a SS event or not...

--


Reflattening might be routine for you but Forrest does not re-flatten or
check flatness for that matter unless requested.

When I send my blades in to Forrest for resharpening I give specific
instructions to return to factory specs instead of do this, do that, do
what ever. I also tell them to call me if repairs and resharpening will
exceed $50. I think I only had to pay extra to re-flatten one time
after I tilted the bevel with the zero insert in place.
Forrest does not assume anything, they want explicit instructions.

On 9/16/2015 2:51 PM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:39:53 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/16/2015 11:00 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 9/16/15 8:43 AM, Leon wrote:
dpb wrote:
On 09/15/2015 6:02 PM, Leon wrote: ...

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado
King set.
...

Was a sidebar article in FWW a few months ago -- most times it
appears blades can be repaired after a SS crash. I was quite
surprised how little actual damage was incurred the blade in the
one shown; the Al brake material is quite lot soft so it just
deforms not causing all that much havoc and destruction as one
imagines will be...I suspect the laundry bill will still be nearly
as expensive after any event

--

I too have heard that the brake does not necessarily damage the
blade beyond repair. But considering that, new SS cartridge $80-90.
And to simply sharpen a Forrest II 40 tooth blade plus shipping both
ways is just shy of $50. Repairs would be on top of that. So in
this example, the SS expense would be $150 minimum.

Considering that, the Bosch wins hands down. But you have to
consider that the Bosch only uses one line of defense to prevent you
from being cut during a trigger. While both saws use the drop down
feature to protect you if that feature was compromised with perhaps a
build up of debris that prevented the blade from dropping below the
surface the redundant brake feature might be the air bag thar assists
the seat belt.


Using that logic, you would have to say they are both insufficient and
shouldn't be trusted to save your fingers because they neither uses
*three* lines of defense to prevent you from being cut during a trigger.



LOL. Yeah! But you have to start somewhere. Enter chain-mail into the
mix.

That will just get caught and drag your extremities into the blade.
(going further out on the it could happen scale)


OK add seat belts and air bags to keep you from being pulled in. LOL

On 9/16/2015 3:04 PM, dpb wrote:
On 09/16/2015 2:50 PM, Leon wrote:
...

I'm sure the blade would have to be reflattened. IIRC Forrest charges by
time involved. So you are quickly coming up on just buying a new blade.

IIRC, the quoted repair on the one in question was 2/3rds new...I don't
know what just routine sharpening charge is but it's not uncommon to
have to have a tooth tip replace anyway and they always
retension/flatten so it's not like that's out of the ordinary. If it is
beyond cost-effectiveness, they'll tell ya'...

--


I don't think I have ever had Forrest replace a tooth, so maybe they
automatically re-flatten in that situation but not if they simply resharpen.

On 9/16/2015 4:04 PM, dpb wrote:
On 09/16/2015 2:50 PM, Leon wrote:
...

I'm sure the blade would have to be reflattened. IIRC Forrest charges by
time involved. So you are quickly coming up on just buying a new blade.

IIRC, the quoted repair on the one in question was 2/3rds new...I don't
know what just routine sharpening charge is but it's not uncommon to
have to have a tooth tip replace anyway and they always
retension/flatten so it's not like that's out of the ordinary. If it is
beyond cost-effectiveness, they'll tell ya'...

--


They don't always retension and flatten, only if it's out.
I know mine was out of whack.
The price was not that bad. I can't remember, and don't see it in my
files on m laptop.
I'll see if it's filed in my file cabinet when I get home.

But it was reasonable for a sharpening and straightening.

--
Jeff

On 9/16/2015 4:13 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/16/2015 1:59 PM, dpb wrote:
On 9/16/2015 9:24 AM, dpb wrote:
...

Was a sidebar article in FWW a few months ago -- most times it appears
blades can be repaired after a SS crash. ...

I think the plate might actually require straightening after. I can't
imagine that the forces would not cause any deformation while happening.
...

Well, yes, that's routine every time you send them one, whether it's
been in a SS event or not...

--


Reflattening might be routine for you but Forrest does not re-flatten or
check flatness for that matter unless requested.

When I send my blades in to Forrest for resharpening I give specific
instructions to return to factory specs instead of do this, do that, do
what ever. I also tell them to call me if repairs and resharpening will
exceed $50. I think I only had to pay extra to re-flatten one time
after I tilted the bevel with the zero insert in place.
Forrest does not assume anything, they want explicit instructions.



That's good wording. I stopped by there one day.
I explained the problem I was experiencing while cutting.
He looked at my carbide, said it needed sharpening.
Then he brought it over to one of the guys for a quick inspection.
They work in dark rooms, I assume they are using an optical comparitor.
He quickly checked and said it was warped.

That would explain the rough cuts.

Next blade I buy will be a full kerf rather than a thin kerf.
But that's after I get my saw stop.
--
Jeff

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 23:11:46 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/15/2015 8:11 PM, krw wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 20:59:23 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/15/2015 7:02 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/15/2015 3:34 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 9/15/15 2:36 PM, Leon wrote:
Looks like the SawStop competition is heating up. This is a pretty good
review of the job site saw by a Bosch rep.

Nice to see that the SawStop patents did not choke the competition as
some thought might happen.

It will be interesting to see if Bosch or others will come up with a
larger more stationary saw.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/video...le-saw/2194198




And you're back to work in 5 minutes, instead of heading out for a new
blade. :-)


Only if you don't have but the one blade. LOL

I cringe at the thought of tripping mthe break on my Forrest Dado King set.

It will be interesting to see of SawStop has a position on the blade
continuing to spin after dropping vs. their set up.


I don't care if it spins as long as it works and does not bite me.
Competition is a good thing.

Exactly. As long as there is competition. Gass tried to change that,
though. I don't think it matters that much anymore, though. The
patents will expire in a few years (2019, IIRC).


You are rehashing what is done and cannot be changed.

Is it?

Would you not really like to see and hear explanations of the
differences by both parties IF you were in the market. Would you use
choice reasoning from what you were impressed by, or hearing from
either brand that it works.

Sure. Information is good but in this case what the consumer thinks
isn't important. Only the court matters.

I did read Gass' patents, though (and I used to read technical patents
as part of my job) and the things are very well written. There isn't
a lot of wiggle room around them. Gass is a lot of things but dummy
isn't one of them.