Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine.
I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time. The final product should look sort of like this: http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/i...ning-table.jpg |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
|
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
dadiOH wrote:
wrote: First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine. I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. If the board edges are true you need nothing other than glue for strength. Biscuits or splines could help with alignment; your skill in gluing together and flatness of boards determine the need for them. If they are not already flat, neither will help as it is unikely you are going to be able to bend the boards to align biscuits/splines. Myself, I would leave them over-thick, glue up and flatten them later. I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time. If you do that, be sure to slot the screw holes in the outside boards to accomodate movement. At the most. you would need three boards, two would be plenty. As an after thought, how are you planning to attach the top to the aprons? You need to allow for movement there too. |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 9:04:33 AM UTC-5, wrote:
My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. I vote you use loose tenons, i.e., practice your loose tenon technique. I did this on my trestle table: https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...n/photostream/ I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time. Yeah, I think that's overkill, also. On my table, I place a board near each leg unit, only, not every two feet. My leg units are 83" apart. Rather than every 2' apart, I vote you practice installing a few dutchmans, even if only on scrap boards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...posted-public/ Sonny |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:31:13 AM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
dadiOH wrote: Jim wrote: First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine. I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. If the board edges are true you need nothing other than glue for strength. Biscuits or splines could help with alignment; your skill in gluing together and flatness of boards determine the need for them. If they are not already flat, neither will help as it is unikely you are going to be able to bend the boards to align biscuits/splines. Myself, I would leave them over-thick, glue up and flatten them later. I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time. If you do that, be sure to slot the screw holes in the outside boards to accomodate movement. At the most. you would need three boards, two would be plenty. As an after thought, how are you planning to attach the top to the aprons? You need to allow for movement there too. Not sure yet, I'm thinking of either pocket hole or possibly angle iron. I just think it's too big and heavy for those table top things that go in the slots. What are your thoughts? |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On 9/9/2015 10:10 AM, Jim wrote:
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:31:13 AM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote: dadiOH wrote: As an after thought, how are you planning to attach the top to the aprons? You need to allow for movement there too. Not sure yet, I'm thinking of either pocket hole or possibly angle iron. I just think it's too big and heavy for those table top things that go in the slots. What are your thoughts? http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/attac...rticle2-14.jpg or http://www.runnerduck.com/bathroom_c..._35_attach.jpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE57ZfN0ANg |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
Jim wrote:
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:31:13 AM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote: dadiOH wrote: Jim wrote: First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine. I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. If the board edges are true you need nothing other than glue for strength. Biscuits or splines could help with alignment; your skill in gluing together and flatness of boards determine the need for them. If they are not already flat, neither will help as it is unikely you are going to be able to bend the boards to align biscuits/splines. Myself, I would leave them over-thick, glue up and flatten them later. I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time. If you do that, be sure to slot the screw holes in the outside boards to accomodate movement. At the most. you would need three boards, two would be plenty. As an after thought, how are you planning to attach the top to the aprons? You need to allow for movement there too. Not sure yet, I'm thinking of either pocket hole or possibly angle iron. I just think it's too big and heavy for those table top things that go in the slots. What are your thoughts? It doesn't much matter as long as you allow for movement. If you plan to lift the table using the top they need to be pretty stout though. I usually use something like Leon's first link, attaching them to the table top with bolts into threaded inserts. |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
: On 9/9/2015 9:04 AM, wrote: I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. You need nothing for greater strength but a spline or biscuits will aid with keeping everything in place when clamping. What Leon said. But, you are going to need to clamp this to get a good glue joint, and with boards that long and thick, you'll need several stout clamps - I'd think 5 would be the minimum, and a couple more wouldn't hurt. John |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On 9/9/2015 1:22 PM, John McCoy wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in : On 9/9/2015 9:04 AM, wrote: I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. You need nothing for greater strength but a spline or biscuits will aid with keeping everything in place when clamping. What Leon said. But, you are going to need to clamp this to get a good glue joint, and with boards that long and thick, you'll need several stout clamps - I'd think 5 would be the minimum, and a couple more wouldn't hurt. John If he has good edges, straight ones, clamping pressure can be drastically reduced. |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote:
First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine. I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time. The final product should look sort of like this: http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/i...ning-table.jpg Yeah, the edges are pretty good. Doing this on my jointer was a challange to say the least. What I ended up doing was, once I got close with the jointer, to but them together with light clamping then find the high spots and hand planing those down. So now I have them all layed out and I put just 2 clamps on them, at the ends, with light pressiure and put a light below. At this point I see nothing coming through so I think they will be nice and tight with 7 clamps, about one each foot. First I'll do two,then add the third. The loose tenon idea is interesting. I have a beadlock tool that I've been very happy with. I toyed with using it for this application and maybe I'll give it a go. I know the glued joint should hold fine, but I've never worked with anything this big and heavy and it kind of worries me to not have a little something extra to hold it together. The alignment isn't that critical as once I have it all glued up I'm bringing it down to a guy in town that has a giant drum sander and run it through that to get it nice and flat and smooth. For $25, it's worth it. As for attaching the top I've used these befo http://www.rokhardware.com/furniture...s-20-pack.html But do you think they will hold up to something this heavy if somebody picks up the table from the top edges? I would use GRK screws to put them on. Jim |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 10:55:42 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote:
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote: First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine. I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time. The final product should look sort of like this: http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/i...ning-table.jpg Yeah, the edges are pretty good. Doing this on my jointer was a challange to say the least. What I ended up doing was, once I got close with the jointer, to but them together with light clamping then find the high spots and hand planing those down. So now I have them all layed out and I put just 2 clamps on them, at the ends, with light pressiure and put a light below. At this point I see nothing coming through so I think they will be nice and tight with 7 clamps, about one each foot. First I'll do two,then add the third. The loose tenon idea is interesting. I have a beadlock tool that I've been very happy with. I toyed with using it for this application and maybe I'll give it a go. I know the glued joint should hold fine, but I've never worked with anything this big and heavy and it kind of worries me to not have a little something extra to hold it together. The alignment isn't that critical as once I have it all glued up I'm bringing it down to a guy in town that has a giant drum sander and run it through that to get it nice and flat and smooth. For $25, it's worth it. As for attaching the top I've used these befo http://www.rokhardware.com/furniture...s-20-pack.html But do you think they will hold up to something this heavy if somebody picks up the table from the top edges? I would use GRK screws to put them on.. Jim I also meant to ask, these type of table top fastners don't offer and lateral binding on the aprons at the ends. I have used pocket screws before and not had seasonal issues. The table will be in Maine. I also considered using lengths of angle iron around the edges. What, given the size and age of this wood, would these methods present as issues? |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
Jim wrote:
Yeah, the edges are pretty good. Doing this on my jointer was a challange to say the least. What I ended up doing was, once I got close with the jointer, to but them together with light clamping then find the high spots and hand planing those down. So now I have them all layed out and I put just 2 clamps on them, at the ends, with light pressiure and put a light below. At this point I see nothing coming through so I think they will be nice and tight with 7 clamps, about one each foot. First I'll do two,then add the third. In case you don't know this already (and if you are using pipe clamps) it will be much easier to keep the glue up flat if you alternate the clamps, top & bottom. It is easy to set pipe clams so that the pressure is not dead center on the board edges; if it isn't, the glue up will bow. With clamps both top and bottom, you can check for flat and tweak to flat as needed. |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On 9/10/2015 9:55 AM, Jim wrote:
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote: First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine. I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time. The final product should look sort of like this: http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/i...ning-table.jpg Yeah, the edges are pretty good. Doing this on my jointer was a challange to say the least. What I ended up doing was, once I got close with the jointer, to but them together with light clamping then find the high spots and hand planing those down. So now I have them all layed out and I put just 2 clamps on them, at the ends, with light pressiure and put a light below. At this point I see nothing coming through so I think they will be nice and tight with 7 clamps, about one each foot. First I'll do two,then add the third. Start your clamps in the middle and work towards the ends. The loose tenon idea is interesting. I have a beadlock tool that I've been very happy with. I toyed with using it for this application and maybe I'll give it a go. I know the glued joint should hold fine, but I've never worked with anything this big and heavy and it kind of worries me to not have a little something extra to hold it together. The alignment isn't that critical as once I have it all glued up I'm bringing it down to a guy in town that has a giant drum sander and run it through that to get it nice and flat and smooth. For $25, it's worth it. You really don't need the extra strength, the glue joint properly prepared, will be stronger than the wood itself. BUT better alignment to begin with is a lesson in building better quality. While you are going to have some one use a drum sander to flatten the top that may not be necessary if you build better to begin with. Build better/smarter and work less. ;~) As for attaching the top I've used these befo http://www.rokhardware.com/furniture...s-20-pack.html But do you think they will hold up to something this heavy if somebody picks up the table from the top edges? I would use GRK screws to put them on. That would depend on whether you use 4 or 40. Keep in mind that you are going to have your groves cut to receive them anyway, adding more fasteners will be simple if necessary. And you absolutely should test lifting by the top to verify. A suggestion, your greatest movement is going to be along the width so if and when the top expands or shrinks any of the fasteners along the length might become too tight or unattached. It would be better if you added a couple of supports evenly spaced between the ends of the table, similar to the end aprons. Attach those supports to your side aprons and cut groves on those also. Use your fasteners on the apron ends and mid supports rather along the length of the table. Clear as mud? ;~) Jim |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On 9/10/2015 10:07 AM, Jim wrote:
On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 10:55:42 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote: On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote: First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine. I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time. The final product should look sort of like this: http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/i...ning-table.jpg Yeah, the edges are pretty good. Doing this on my jointer was a challange to say the least. What I ended up doing was, once I got close with the jointer, to but them together with light clamping then find the high spots and hand planing those down. So now I have them all layed out and I put just 2 clamps on them, at the ends, with light pressiure and put a light below. At this point I see nothing coming through so I think they will be nice and tight with 7 clamps, about one each foot. First I'll do two,then add the third. The loose tenon idea is interesting. I have a beadlock tool that I've been very happy with. I toyed with using it for this application and maybe I'll give it a go. I know the glued joint should hold fine, but I've never worked with anything this big and heavy and it kind of worries me to not have a little something extra to hold it together. The alignment isn't that critical as once I have it all glued up I'm bringing it down to a guy in town that has a giant drum sander and run it through that to get it nice and flat and smooth. For $25, it's worth it. As for attaching the top I've used these befo http://www.rokhardware.com/furniture...s-20-pack.html But do you think they will hold up to something this heavy if somebody picks up the table from the top edges? I would use GRK screws to put them on. Jim I also meant to ask, these type of table top fastners don't offer and lateral binding on the aprons at the ends. I have used pocket screws before and not had seasonal issues. The table will be in Maine. I also considered using lengths of angle iron around the edges. What, given the size and age of this wood, would these methods present as issues? See my answer in the other post. |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 9:55:42 AM UTC-5, Jim wrote:
At this point I see nothing coming through so I think they will be nice and tight with 7 clamps, about one each foot. Do a dry fit and clamp, lightly, with all your clamps. Stagger your clamps, one above, one below, above, below, etc.... making sure your boards remain coplanor, during the clamping process. Clamp on a level surface... you don't want your table top to be twisted, from end to end or side to side. Sonny |
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On 9/9/2015 9:04 AM, wrote:
The final product should look sort of like this: http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/i...ning-table.jpg I'm a sucker for that style of table. Really do like it, thus saved the photo. Might have to build it myself one of these days, but lord only knows for who ... -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
: On 9/9/2015 1:22 PM, John McCoy wrote: Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in : On 9/9/2015 9:04 AM, wrote: I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. You need nothing for greater strength but a spline or biscuits will aid with keeping everything in place when clamping. What Leon said. But, you are going to need to clamp this to get a good glue joint, and with boards that long and thick, you'll need several stout clamps - I'd think 5 would be the minimum, and a couple more wouldn't hurt. John If he has good edges, straight ones, clamping pressure can be drastically reduced. On a 7 foot board, the odds of having an edge straight enough to not need clamping are pretty small. On a 1.5" thick board, if you're going to bend it at all by clamping, you'll need a stout clamping setup. John |
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On 9/10/2015 9:55 AM, Jim wrote:
Yeah, the edges are pretty good. Doing this on my jointer was a challange to say the least. What I ended up doing was, once I got close with the jointer, to but them together with light clamping then find the high spots and hand planing those down. So now I have them all layed out and I put just 2 clamps on them, at the ends, with light pressiure and put a light below. At this point I see nothing coming through so I think they will be nice and tight with 7 clamps, about one each foot. First I'll do two,then add the third. FWIW, here's a similar table top glue-up I did 11 years ago, which may give you some additional ideas: https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...11077003951218 For a better explanation of how this was planned, go here and scroll down to the "Trestle Table" section: http://www.e-woodshop.net/Projects5.htm I noticed that you have a jointer: with that in mind, might also want to pay attention to the following for increasing your chances of getting a flat glue-up that will save you tons of cleanup and flattening: ~ Do a layout for your glue-up with all the boards face up, and in the correct/final order. Starting from the top, and alternating with chalk/pencil, a "U" (up) on one side, and a "D" (down) on the opposite side, of _each_ glue joint in the layout. Then do a final pass over the jointer, with the above marked edge against the fence, AND in the appropriate up or down orientation. The resulting adjacent edges of each joint will now equal 90 degrees, even if your jointer fence is not precisely set to 90 degrees. The method takes out any error of the fence being square to the table (and technique for the most part), takes elegant advantage of the principle of "complementary angles" to obtain 90 degree joints for _adjacent boards_ in a glue-up. Have used this "jointer" method for panel glue-ups, without fail, for years ... your mileage shouldn't vary. ~ Joint the edges of a couple of tubafours to put your panel on while gluing so you can keep thing flat (see photo above). This will also let you easily get clamping pressure from both sides. ~ Have some extra small clamps and assists handy to span the joins on the ends, as needed, which will also help to keep things flat. These are worth making out of scraps for just such an operation as you are doing: https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...9 93446581314 As you can see from the above, if your joinery is properly prepared, you plan the operation well, and rehearse before you start, you really don't need all that many clamps to get a good flat table top glue-up ... and one that is easy to do the final prep on before finishing. BTW, biscuits were used for alignment of the various glue-ups that it took to get the desired table width. The table top weighed in at 106 lbs and is attached with figure 8 fasteners to the trestle support. Then years later you can have some Bud's from the wRec over to properly christen it on a yearly basis: https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...33036474893 0 -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On 9/10/2015 2:35 PM, John McCoy wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in : On 9/9/2015 1:22 PM, John McCoy wrote: Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in : On 9/9/2015 9:04 AM, wrote: I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. You need nothing for greater strength but a spline or biscuits will aid with keeping everything in place when clamping. What Leon said. But, you are going to need to clamp this to get a good glue joint, and with boards that long and thick, you'll need several stout clamps - I'd think 5 would be the minimum, and a couple more wouldn't hurt. John If he has good edges, straight ones, clamping pressure can be drastically reduced. On a 7 foot board, the odds of having an edge straight enough to not need clamping are pretty small. On a 1.5" thick board, if you're going to bend it at all by clamping, you'll need a stout clamping setup. John I have 25 pieces of maple that are about 10' long and I could glue most any of them together with out much issue. If you use straight lumber, as is stated above clamping pressure, is drastically reduced. Not what you changed it to, "to not need clamping". No doubt that if you are not working with suitable stock to begin with stout clamps will help. But again, good edges, straight ones do not require as much clamping pressure to close the joint. Straight edges should not be an issue to obtain. |
#21
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On 9/10/2015 12:48 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 9/9/2015 9:04 AM, wrote: The final product should look sort of like this: http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/i...ning-table.jpg I'm a sucker for that style of table. Really do like it, thus saved the photo. I saw almost the same table at Joe's Crab Shack. I liked the simple design, thinking I'd build one for my deck. I kicked my self for not taking a picture with my cell, so I downloaded this one, as you did. I've glued up a lot of table tops like this, and just glue and clamps needed. When I first started woodworking one of the first things I made was a large work bench with a butcher block top. I ran splines in each board, and cut 1/4" plywood strips for the splines. Then I drilled holes every foot for 1/4" threaded rod. I didn't trust wood glue then, but quickly learned that was total over kill, glue really does work, and is all that's needed. -- Jack Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life. http://jbstein.com |
#22
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On 9/10/2015 4:13 PM, Swingman wrote:
I noticed that you have a jointer: with that in mind, might also want to pay attention to the following for increasing your chances of getting a flat glue-up that will save you tons of cleanup and flattening: ~ Do a layout for your glue-up with all the boards face up, and in the correct/final order. Starting from the top, and alternating with chalk/pencil, a "U" (up) on one side, and a "D" (down) on the opposite side, of _each_ glue joint in the layout. Then do a final pass over the jointer, with the above marked edge against the fence, AND in the appropriate up or down orientation. The resulting adjacent edges of each joint will now equal 90 degrees, even if your jointer fence is not precisely set to 90 degrees. The method takes out any error of the fence being square to the table (and technique for the most part), takes elegant advantage of the principle of "complementary angles" to obtain 90 degree joints for _adjacent boards_ in a glue-up. Have used this "jointer" method for panel glue-ups, without fail, for years ... your mileage shouldn't vary. Yes, me too, with one variation. I number adjoining joints 1, 2, 3, 4... instead of up and down. When I joint, I always do even in, odd out. That way the boards can easily be re-assembled later the exact same way you laid them out for looks. I already tilted the fence to give thin boards more glue surface. Found that was never really needed, but it works. -- Jack Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life. http://jbstein.com |
#23
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On 09/14/2015 1:18 PM, Jack wrote:
.... I already tilted the fence to give thin boards more glue surface. Found that was never really needed, but it works. The complementary angles works; would think the angle required to make any percentage increase in area beyond the miniscule to cause a real tendency for the joints to want to move during glue up as to be a pit(proverbial)a(ppendage) unless use splines or similar for registration. -- |
#24
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 9:55:42 AM UTC-5, Jim wrote:
As for attaching the top I've used these befo http://www.rokhardware.com/furniture...s-20-pack.html Jim, have you decided what fasteners you'll use, have you bought them, yet? I might can save you a few dollars. I knew I had these, somewhere. Finally found them. Don't know the price of Leon's suggested runnerduck.com attachment and the Knape & Vogt is $5. I have half a case (about 500) each of these. I'll never use them all. I can mail you 25-35 of each, if you think these are appropriate for your application. On the "L" bracket, the longer leg is 1" and the shorter leg is 1/2". First 3 photos, scroll right: https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...posted-public/ Sonny |
#25
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote:
First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine. I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time. The final product should look sort of like this: http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/i...ning-table.jpg Well, the project is moving along well, should be done and delivered this weekend. Turns out the top is so ungodly heavy I don't think I need to attach it at all, just have guide boards that fit inside the frame. So the top finished great, the base, not so much. Not terrible considering it will be a rustic look and may in fact be great once all together. That being said this is a picture that sort of shows my concern: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Xfj...ew?usp=sharing The wood for the base is Doug Fir and I did use Charles Neil's prep before finishing with MinWax oil based stain. But it still has parts that look to me to be a lot lighter then others. In particular the cross pieces between the legs on the bottom. The won't go darker even if I apply more stain. Maybe I'm being anal as I'm not used to this "rustic" look. I'm going to cover it all with a satin finish poly for protection, would it make sense to maybe use a darker color polyshade on the light parts to blend them or won't that work? I think I'll put the whole thing together just to see how it looks before I decide. Oh,I thought this was cool, the cross piece in the bottom has pegs that come out of the tenons, and the pieces with the mortises it goes through are on aluminum guide pins in the legs so they come out as well. This way, with the top off, one could "walk" it through a narrow door. The link in my original post contains all the pics so far. Thanks again for all the advice. |
#26
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On 10/14/2015 1:03 PM, Jim wrote:
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote: First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine. I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time. The final product should look sort of like this: http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/i...ning-table.jpg Well, the project is moving along well, should be done and delivered this weekend. Turns out the top is so ungodly heavy I don't think I need to attach it at all, just have guide boards that fit inside the frame. So the top finished great, the base, not so much. Not terrible considering it will be a rustic look and may in fact be great once all together. That being said this is a picture that sort of shows my concern: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Xfj...ew?usp=sharing The wood for the base is Doug Fir and I did use Charles Neil's prep before finishing with MinWax oil based stain. But it still has parts that look to me to be a lot lighter then others. In particular the cross pieces between the legs on the bottom. The won't go darker even if I apply more stain. Maybe I'm being anal as I'm not used to this "rustic" look. I'm going to cover it all with a satin finish poly for protection, would it make sense to maybe use a darker color polyshade on the light parts to blend them or won't that work? I think I'll put the whole thing together just to see how it looks before I decide. Oh,I thought this was cool, the cross piece in the bottom has pegs that come out of the tenons, and the pieces with the mortises it goes through are on aluminum guide pins in the legs so they come out as well. This way, with the top off, one could "walk" it through a narrow door. The link in my original post contains all the pics so far. Thanks again for all the advice. FWIW I try my hardest to not stain or change the color of wood. The wood you are working with tends to be difficult, in the best of circumstances, to cover evenly. Anyway stains tend to make a piece look a consistent color throughout and typically hides the beauty of the wood. But some times the customer dictates the finish and this is what you have to contend with. Where I am going with this is that the location of the pieces and their orientation have a lot to do with how lite or dark the wood appears and this is especially true with unstained woods. I have shown customers that the rail on a cabinet door looks lite while the stile made from the same board appears dark. Then that all changes to the opposite lite/dark appearance if I turn the door panel 90 degrees. If your pieces seem to change shades from different viewing angles you can't prevent that. |
#27
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 2:48:45 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
In particular the cross pieces between the legs on the bottom. The won't go darker even if I apply more stain. FWIW I try my hardest to not stain or change the color of wood. The wood you are working with tends to be difficult, in the best of circumstances, to cover evenly. Anyway stains tend to make a piece look a consistent color throughout and typically hides the beauty of the wood. But some times the customer dictates the finish and this is what you have to contend with. Where I am going with this is that the location of the pieces and their orientation have a lot to do with how lite or dark the wood appears and this is especially true with unstained woods. I have shown customers that the rail on a cabinet door looks lite while the stile made from the same board appears dark. Then that all changes to the opposite lite/dark appearance if I turn the door panel 90 degrees. If your pieces seem to change shades from different viewing angles you can't prevent that. Yep, exactly. It looks great. Good job. Can't wait to see the whole table asembled. Sonny |
#28
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote:
First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine. I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time. The final product should look sort of like this: http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/i...ning-table.jpg Sonny, thank you. Leon,I could not agree with you more, which is why I am not familiar with using stains, but the "customer" (son's new bride) wanted it dark, so here I am. Yeah some of the irregularities I can live with, it even looks interesting. The main thing I don't like is the way the legs all seem to be 10 shades lighter then the tops and bottoms. I have no idea why. If I apply more stain to just those sections and wipe it off after 15 min, they don't look much different. Sort of like they are saturated. I'm going to put poly on them anyway, so I thought what if I used some of that shaded poly on just the light sections? Maybe just sand them again and re-try the stain? No idea. Hope it isn't so apparent once it's all together I am VERY happy with the top though... |
#29
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 4:39:35 PM UTC-5, Jim wrote:
I'm going to put poly on them anyway, so I thought what if I used some of that shaded poly on just the light sections? Maybe just sand them again and re-try the stain? I would not try the staining again. I'd go with toning the finish/poly. Do some sample poly toning, first, over a stained sample piece, before committing to the project. If you are to apply 2 coats of finish, your toning may need to be darkened more, than if you apply 3 or more less-toned top coats. *The table will be in Maine. Is that too far away for convenient later applications? .... Why do it now? The pic doesn't show the degree of difference you are speaking of, so we can't see exactly how much difference there is. Why not leave it as is, for now, if the difference isn't too terribly great. Let them live with it for a while. If, later, they decide (prefer) it should be darker, then, later, it can be darkened. It'll be (*it may be) just as easy to darken it, later, .... to apply more toned coats, later,.... as it is to darken, now. Sonny |
#30
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 4:39:35 PM UTC-5, Jim wrote:
I am VERY happy with the top though... Thumbs up! I really like reclaimed wood. I'm excited for you, having done lots of reclaimed woodwork, myself. Your previous link showed me only one pic. I didn't see any tab for accessing other pics on that link. I went to your original post (July 13th) to get the whole project. https://drive.google.com/folderview?...usp=sha ring# Sonny |
#31
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote:
First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine. I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time. The final product should look sort of like this: http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/i...ning-table.jpg All done. Thank you all again. Here are some pics at the couples house: https://goo.gl/Vqqb2W |
#32
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On Sunday, October 18, 2015 at 10:13:54 AM UTC-5, Jim wrote:
The final product should look sort of like this: http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/i...ning-table.jpg All done. Thank you all again. Here are some pics at the couples house: https://goo.gl/Vqqb2W Well, Jim, you failed. Your table was suppose to look like the other (linked) table. Yours looks much better. ^5 It looks great in that dining area. Sonny |
#33
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
Thanks Sonny, they were pretty happy with it.
|
#34
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On 10/18/2015 10:13 AM, Jim wrote:
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote: First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine. I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time. The final product should look sort of like this: http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/i...ning-table.jpg All done. Thank you all again. Here are some pics at the couples house: https://goo.gl/Vqqb2W Looks great. Just needs 4 more chairs. ;~) |
#35
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Farm table part Deux: Top glue up?
On Sunday, October 18, 2015 at 2:57:56 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 10/18/2015 10:13 AM, Jim wrote: On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote: First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine. I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated. I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time. The final product should look sort of like this: http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/i...ning-table.jpg All done. Thank you all again. Here are some pics at the couples house: https://goo.gl/Vqqb2W Looks great. Just needs 4 more chairs. ;~) True. But in fact my next project is to build 2 benches for each side... They need to start making baby's to grow up and eat on it. |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
A story in two parts, part Deux | Home Repair | |||
In the interest of woodworking content - Part Deux: | Woodworking | |||
Gorton J-22 Part Deux | Metalworking | |||
eurolocks part deux | UK diy | |||
Solid Flooring over Carpet - Part Deux | Home Repair |