It has been several months since I have built anything large, October
last year I think. Anyway my wife wants more storage in her quilting
studio and I designed a couple of two piece cabinets that will be
painted to match all of her other studio furniture. As usual I am using
my front and back face frame methods of building the cabinets with all
mortise and floating tenon jointery and dado and grove jointery, and
some lap joints on the back frame.

Anyway about 18 floating tenons, and 11 dado/groves. Nothing but wood
and glue so far for this particular cabinet. Three to go with two of
them being taller with glass doors.

A test dry fit to make sure all of this fits as planned.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/photostream

Glued and in the clamps.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...n/photostream/

Where this will eventually end up.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

The color will be mint green but I use different colors to distinguish
different materials so that when I import from Sketchup to Cutlist Plus
I don't have to identify the material again for each piece.

Comments?

On 7/19/2015 2:39 PM, Leon wrote:
It has been several months since I have built anything large, October
last year I think. Anyway my wife wants more storage in her quilting
studio and I designed a couple of two piece cabinets that will be
painted to match all of her other studio furniture.

Where this will eventually end up.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

Comments?

Are you sure you are posting this to the proper group? It as nothing to
do with politics or the price of gas.

I like the idea of them. We're going to be moving my wife's sewing room
and she wants one wall to be display cabinets. I'll have to study your
design to see if I can steal your ideas.

On 7/19/2015 3:25 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/19/2015 2:39 PM, Leon wrote:
It has been several months since I have built anything large, October
last year I think. Anyway my wife wants more storage in her quilting
studio and I designed a couple of two piece cabinets that will be
painted to match all of her other studio furniture.

Where this will eventually end up.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

Comments?

Are you sure you are posting this to the proper group? It as nothing to
do with politics or the price of gas.

I like the idea of them. We're going to be moving my wife's sewing room
and she wants one wall to be display cabinets. I'll have to study your
design to see if I can steal your ideas.

If you use Sketchup I could send you the file.

On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 1:39:53 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
As usual I am using
my front and back face frame methods of building the cabinets with all
mortise and floating tenon jointery and dado and grove jointery, and
some lap joints on the back frame.

Anyway about 18 floating tenons,....

Time and again, I've paid attention to many of you all's use of floating tenons, though I may not have commented. I don't recall using floating tenons in the past, but I have lately, and I've seen or understood how well they perform by you're and others working, explanations and results.

Lately, I tried hand cutting mortises, for loose tenons, in the walnut trestle tabel top. Did okay, but I'm sure a jig and plunge router would have done a better job, making for the top's edges to be a better aligned (even), than with my hand job. In essence, I am not totally pleased with my hand cut mortises, despite their being fairly good.

I don't have a plunge router. I suppose a plunge router (and jig) is much more convenient/efficient, than using a standard router, for cutting these mortises. Kinna like a few years ago, I finally bought a biscuit jointer and found it easy to use and using biscuits, to be much more convenient than the job of drilling and using dowels.

I suppose it'll be a while before I make any more mortises for floating tenons, and I may invest in a plunge router, then.

Your project reminds me, again, to think about getting a plunge router. I'm lacking the skill and experience to use one, also, as readily as I use my standard router.

As always, Leon, your projects are great, in more ways than one.

Sonny

In article ,
says...

On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 1:39:53 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
As usual I am using
my front and back face frame methods of building the cabinets with all
mortise and floating tenon jointery and dado and grove jointery, and
some lap joints on the back frame.

Anyway about 18 floating tenons,....

Time and again, I've paid attention to many of you all's use of floating tenons, though I may not have commented. I don't recall using floating tenons in the past, but I have lately, and I've seen or understood how well they perform by you're and others working, explanations and results.

Lately, I tried hand cutting mortises, for loose tenons, in the walnut trestle tabel top. Did okay, but I'm sure a jig and plunge router would have done a better job, making for the top's edges to be a better aligned (even), than with my hand job. In essence, I am not totally pleased with my hand cut mortises, despite their being fairly good.

I don't have a plunge router. I suppose a plunge router (and jig) is much more convenient/efficient, than using a standard router, for cutting these mortises. Kinna like a few years ago, I finally bought a biscuit jointer and found it easy to use and using biscuits, to be much more convenient than the job of drilling and using dowels.

I suppose it'll be a while before I make any more mortises for floating tenons, and I may invest in a plunge router, then.

Your project reminds me, again, to think about getting a plunge router. I'm lacking the skill and experience to use one, also, as readily as I use my standard router.

As always, Leon, your projects are great, in more ways than one.

Sonny

Might want to consider building a router table and putting a router lift
in it. Gives you very, very precise control--with a good lift and a
good fence you can position to 1/128 of an inch or better. You can DIY
the lift if you want to, there's a brief discussion at
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/44093 that lists most of the available
lift plans.

On 7/19/2015 9:27 PM, Sonny wrote:
On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 1:39:53 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
As usual I am using my front and back face frame methods of
building the cabinets with all mortise and floating tenon jointery
and dado and grove jointery, and some lap joints on the back
frame.

Anyway about 18 floating tenons,....

Time and again, I've paid attention to many of you all's use of
floating tenons, though I may not have commented. I don't recall
using floating tenons in the past, but I have lately, and I've seen
or understood how well they perform by you're and others working,
explanations and results.

Lately, I tried hand cutting mortises, for loose tenons, in the
walnut trestle tabel top. Did okay, but I'm sure a jig and plunge
router would have done a better job, making for the top's edges to be
a better aligned (even), than with my hand job. In essence, I am
not totally pleased with my hand cut mortises, despite their being
fairly good.

I don't have a plunge router. I suppose a plunge router (and jig)
is much more convenient/efficient, than using a standard router, for
cutting these mortises. Kinna like a few years ago, I finally bought
a biscuit jointer and found it easy to use and using biscuits, to be
much more convenient than the job of drilling and using dowels.

I suppose it'll be a while before I make any more mortises for
floating tenons, and I may invest in a plunge router, then.

Your project reminds me, again, to think about getting a plunge
router. I'm lacking the skill and experience to use one, also, as
readily as I use my standard router.

As always, Leon, your projects are great, in more ways than one.

Thank you Sonny.

I know a lot of people say that you can't blame your tools if your
project does not come out right. I say if you don't have the right
tools it takes way too long to prove the previous comment.

I can cut many of these type mortises as quickly as cutting a slot for a
biscuit and much more accurately with the right machine.

These would be difficult to cut accurately even with a plunge router.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

Sonny wrote in
:

Lately, I tried hand cutting mortises, for loose tenons, in the walnut
trestle tabel top. Did okay, but I'm sure a jig and plunge router
would have done a better job, making for the top's edges to be a
better aligned (even), than with my hand job. In essence, I am not
totally pleased with my hand cut mortises, despite their being fairly
good.

I think this is why floating tenons is a "modern" technique.
If you're working by hand, it's much less effort to cut one
mortise and one tenon, than to cut two mortises and a longer
tenon piece.

John

On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 1:40:45 PM UTC-5, John McCoy wrote:
Sonny
Lately, I tried hand cutting mortises, for loose tenons,


I think this is why floating tenons is a "modern" technique.
If you're working by hand, it's much less effort to cut one
mortise and one tenon, than to cut two mortises and a longer
tenon piece.

John


Yeah, and in conjunction with what Leon said "that you can't blame your tools if your project does not come out right" and working "with the right machine."

Long explanation, here.
Other things involved in my thinking and with this table project (reminded by Leon's mortises and tenons, again), kinna brought all my issues/problems to the fore..... *Issues/problems with this particular table project.

I initially thought my table project was fairly straight forward... and it is, but subsequent (changing) circumstances didn't allow for my execution of the building processes, as simply as I had envisioned, because of those unforeseen, unanticipated changes.

I had/have no written plans, only a visual idea of the finished product. Then, I visualized-worked backwards, in my mental planning, as to each task to be done, in order to accomplish the end product. With each individual task, I did measure, calculate, mark, scribe, etc., but the general plans/schematics were in my head.

1) The table top boards: Rough cut 2" thick, 11'10" long, about 19" wide; air dried for 2 yrs before beginning work; After drying, they were planed to 1 3/8" to 1 1/2" thick. There was some slight variation in the planed thickness, along the length of each board, because of 1) the large size of the boards and ....

2) Despite the boards being stickered, well, when air dried, and, after having been planed and the mating edges jointed, there was still some slight warping/waviness (not bad) along their lenghts. I had thought the irregular surfaces could be corrected, at least to some extent, with the mortise & tenon applications.... the remainder of the correction being to sand the surfaces, along the mating edges, until even.... And, essentially, this has happened. However, there has been some unexpected other "influences" that has crept into the mix.

Unexpected "influences":
1) My initial "design idea", for the table top, was to keep each board separate from the other, i.e., not glued together, because each board is so large and heavy and each board will expand & contract(humidity/temp). Each table top board weighs about 75lbs, I'm guessing. It would be difficult to move that large of table top (the table disassembled), if the three boards were glued into one piece. So I decided to abandon the glued-up assembly and have the boards assembled separately. This separate assembly plan presented another issue, with respect to expansion/contraction movement.... there would be open "cracks" (separation) along the mating surfaces. This/these "opening" events will likely have to be corrected by, periodically, manually closing the mating joints, from time to time. I don't want to have to do this "manual closing".

2) The use of loose tenons came into play for the unglued top boards assembly..... sounds easy enough, problem solved! My hand cut mortises and tenons didn't completely solve the problem, as well as I assumed. The boards are still moving, i.e., expanding and contracting. Would better-cut mortises have helped the problem? Probably, but probably not completely. Should I have invested in a plunge router and jig, as I had thought, back then (months ago)? Back then, I had thought hand cut mortises would have been good enough, so I dismissed the new tool purchase.

For their 11'+ length, I have 7 tenons along each mating edge. Bottom-side view of the table, scroll right for second pic. The tenons are 1"W X 3/8"thick X 2"L.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...in/photostream

I think my walnut table project is worth the effort to get the right tools for the job and/or have the correct skills to perform the tasks at hand.

Leon's cabinet project, again, made for my re-evaluating the things (tools) I need to seriously consider, when doing some projects. I am discovering that this table project is not as some of my past typical, run-of-the-mill "primitives". I need a better approach, better skills and/or appropriate tools, to accomplish what I want.

There have been a few other things, with this whole project, that has not gone as smoothly as I had envisioned. I blame the large size of the boards for some of the issues.... the slab leg units are still drying, moving/warping, a bit; the trestle board is still "moving", also. I ask myself, would having kiln dried the lumber made for more stable lumber? With this project, I am having to tweak my knowledge(or ignorance?) and skills, an in-progress job, in and of itself.

Sonny

On 7/19/2015 9:27 PM, Sonny wrote:

In essence, I am not totally pleased with my hand cut mortises, despite their being fairly good.

And highly likely to be plenty sufficient to do the job.

Taking a look at xrays of M&T joints in antique furniture will disavow
you of the idea most old time woodworking was somehow the epitome of
precision when done by hand.

Sure, there are a few bespoke "master works" with precision joinery, but
most product of the old time woodworker wouldn't pass the muster of
today's imaginary magazine standards, which are driven by advertising
dollar, in pursuit of a perfection that rarely ever existed in practice.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 7/21/2015 8:21 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/19/2015 9:27 PM, Sonny wrote:

In essence, I am not totally pleased with my hand cut mortises,
despite their being fairly good.

And highly likely to be plenty sufficient to do the job.

Taking a look at xrays of M&T joints in antique furniture will disavow
you of the idea most old time woodworking was somehow the epitome of
precision when done by hand.

Heck, put an x-ray to my mortises and you will see that one side of the
joint, usually the end of a board, has an exact fit Domino mortise and
the opposite mating side has an elongated Domino mortise, width wise, to
give me a touch of wiggle room during the glue up. Precise fit between
the mortise and floating tenon is not at all necessary in this regard.
It is helpful however if the distance from the reference surface is dead
on so that mating pieces outer surfaces share the same plane. ;~)





Sure, there are a few bespoke "master works" with precision joinery, but
most product of the old time woodworker wouldn't pass the muster of
today's imaginary magazine standards, which are driven by advertising
dollar, in pursuit of a perfection that rarely ever existed in practice.

On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 8:21:33 AM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:
On 7/19/2015 9:27 PM, Sonny wrote:

In essence, I am not totally pleased with my hand cut mortises, despite their being fairly good.

And highly likely to be plenty sufficient to do the job.

Actually, the mortises and tenons fit well, together.... tenons have a nice tight fit into the mortises. The mortise slots' alignments, from board to board, is perfect. I had expected these "fittings" to fix the subtle/slight warp (waviness-misalignment), of the boards surfaces, to be better corrected. It is the degree of the non-correcting, that I am not totally pleased with.

And thanks for the vote of confidence, that they are plenty sufficient.

Leon's comment:
.... the opposite mating side has an elongated Domino mortise, width wise, to
give me a touch of wiggle room during the glue up.

At one time, I had thought to glue the table top boards together. Their size made me rethink that. For smaller boards, gluing is fine, but maybe not for these large of boards, planks.

I may reconsider gluing them. Another option, I had considered, was to install 4 or 5 dutchmans along each mating joint, on the underside of the tabletop. Not sure how well top-surface dutchmans would look, for secondary decor function. Wonder if 4 or 5 topside dutchmans would be overkill, look inappropriate for decor? Maybe 3 per joint topside and 2 per joint bottomside. Don't know if I can do justice to this project, with exposed dutchmans, as well as George Nakashima would do, but the more I think about it, the more appealing it is. I do pretty good dutchmans, also. There's one on the underside of one board, securing a check.

Sonny

On 7/21/2015 9:38 AM, Sonny wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 8:21:33 AM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:
On 7/19/2015 9:27 PM, Sonny wrote:

In essence, I am not totally pleased with my hand cut mortises,
despite their being fairly good.

And highly likely to be plenty sufficient to do the job.

Actually, the mortises and tenons fit well, together.... tenons have
a nice tight fit into the mortises. The mortise slots' alignments,
from board to board, is perfect. I had expected these "fittings" to
fix the subtle/slight warp (waviness-misalignment), of the boards
surfaces, to be better corrected. It is the degree of the
non-correcting, that I am not totally pleased with.

And thanks for the vote of confidence, that they are plenty
sufficient.


Leon's comment:
.... the opposite mating side has an elongated Domino mortise,
width wise, to
give me a touch of wiggle room during the glue up.

At one time, I had thought to glue the table top boards together.
Their size made me rethink that. For smaller boards, gluing is
fine, but maybe not for these large of boards, planks.

I may reconsider gluing them. Another option, I had considered, was
to install 4 or 5 dutchmans along each mating joint, on the underside
of the tabletop. Not sure how well top-surface dutchmans would
look, for secondary decor function. Wonder if 4 or 5 topside
dutchmans would be overkill, look inappropriate for decor? Maybe 3
per joint topside and 2 per joint bottomside. Don't know if I can do
justice to this project, with exposed dutchmans, as well as George
Nakashima would do, but the more I think about it, the more appealing
it is. I do pretty good dutchmans, also. There's one on the
underside of one board, securing a check.

Sonny


You have heard Swingman and I say this at least once before. ;~)
In my very early years I started a project from a few measurements and a
picture in my mind. The projects came out well but took for eeeeeeever.
Then came the computer and CAD, my first computer was in 1986. I was
building serious furniture 8 years before that. I went through probably
5~7 different brands of CAD software including AutoCAD LT. All were an
immense help.

Then about 8~9 years ago Swingman and I tried Sketchup one more time. I
think both of us had tried earlier versions and removed them but the
last time we both saw improvements and have not looked back.
Adding simple to use 3D greatly improves the ability to see exactly how
a project will look in its finished form. Additionally you literally
build your drawing as you would your project in the shop, piece by piece
as components. so add dutch-mans in the drawing and see for yourself it
they will be too much. ;~)

Another thing I like to do for my customers is draw the room that the
piece of furniture will fit into so that they can see the scale to the
room shape and size.

The link below is to a pretty complex drawing. This drawing is our home
with my garage shop and all of the furniture that I have built, for our
home. I have on occasion changed the color of a piece after placing it
this model as the original color did not go well.
FWIW every thing you see that is placed in the house model can be
removed and edited. Basically all of the furniture can be moved,
rotated, disassembled and viewed in explicit detail exactly how it was
built.
In fact if you look at the top floor, my wife's quilting studio, you
will see again the model of the cabinet that I am currently building.

Sketchup is a free program and a priceless tool, not to mention a lot of
fun.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

Leon wrote:

Sketchup is a free program and a priceless tool, not to mention a lot
of fun.



I learned the other day, it is still "a lot of fun" if you fall out of
practice with it!
Maybe part of it was the new version seemed a little bit different that
the old. I recall
I used to be able to have a bunch of bottons on the *left*, but I
couldn't figure out how to
get them there. I am using a version I downloaded in 2015.

Bill

On 7/21/2015 11:22 AM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:

Sketchup is a free program and a priceless tool, not to mention a lot
of fun.



I learned the other day, it is still "a lot of fun" if you fall out of
practice with it!
Maybe part of it was the new version seemed a little bit different that
the old. I recall
I used to be able to have a bunch of bottons on the *left*, but I
couldn't figure out how to
get them there. I am using a version I downloaded in 2015.

Bill



LOL, is that question? IIRC 2015 is the latest.

Swingman wrote:


Taking a look at xrays of M&T joints in antique furniture will disavow
you of the idea most old time woodworking was somehow the epitome of
precision when done by hand.

Sure, there are a few bespoke "master works" with precision joinery,
but most product of the old time woodworker wouldn't pass the muster
of today's imaginary magazine standards, which are driven by
advertising dollar, in pursuit of a perfection that rarely ever
existed in practice.

Thank you Karl! With all of the talk here about precision to 1/128th of an
inch and all that, it is really noteworthy that those often admired artisans
of yore, never came even clost to that - nor did they need to. The evidence
of their precision remains standing today, as proof of what really matters.

--

-Mike-

On 7/21/2015 12:07 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:


Taking a look at xrays of M&T joints in antique furniture will disavow
you of the idea most old time woodworking was somehow the epitome of
precision when done by hand.

Sure, there are a few bespoke "master works" with precision joinery,
but most product of the old time woodworker wouldn't pass the muster
of today's imaginary magazine standards, which are driven by
advertising dollar, in pursuit of a perfection that rarely ever
existed in practice.

Thank you Karl! With all of the talk here about precision to 1/128th of an
inch and all that, it is really noteworthy that those often admired artisans
of yore, never came even clost to that - nor did they need to. The evidence
of their precision remains standing today, as proof of what really matters.


Well deep in mind Mike that the precision of hidden mortises and tenons
is not so important, and yes we are talking at least 64ths of an inch,
when it comes to what you actually see.

For instance if you are not cutting stock precisely the same length for
rails for door or face frames, way more accurate than 1/128", you see
gaps and cracks. Their lengths are not so important so much as their
lengths have to be dead nuts the same.

And then there was the last kitchen that Karl and I worked on where we
were dealing with measurements in the 64ths of an inch gap between
cabinet doors and drawers for the parts that you do see.

Basically you have to know and recognize when you have to be anally
accurate and when that is not so important. ;~)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

On 7/21/2015 1:20 PM, Leon wrote:
On 7/21/2015 12:07 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:


Taking a look at xrays of M&T joints in antique furniture will disavow
you of the idea most old time woodworking was somehow the epitome of
precision when done by hand.

Sure, there are a few bespoke "master works" with precision joinery,
but most product of the old time woodworker wouldn't pass the muster
of today's imaginary magazine standards, which are driven by
advertising dollar, in pursuit of a perfection that rarely ever
existed in practice.

Thank you Karl! With all of the talk here about precision to 1/128th
of an
inch and all that, it is really noteworthy that those often admired
artisans
of yore, never came even clost to that - nor did they need to. The
evidence
of their precision remains standing today, as proof of what really
matters.


Well deep in mind Mike that the precision of hidden mortises and tenons
is not so important, and yes we are talking at least 64ths of an inch,
when it comes to what you actually see.

For instance if you are not cutting stock precisely the same length for
rails for door or face frames, way more accurate than 1/128", you see
gaps and cracks. Their lengths are not so important so much as their
lengths have to be dead nuts the same.

And then there was the last kitchen that Karl and I worked on where we
were dealing with measurements in the 64ths of an inch gap between
cabinet doors and drawers for the parts that you do see.

Basically you have to know and recognize when you have to be anally
accurate and when that is not so important. ;~)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

And the blow by blow:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...?noredirect=1#


--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Sonny wrote in
:

I had/have no written plans, only a visual idea of the finished
product. Then, I visualized-worked backwards, in my mental planning,
as to each task to be done, in order to accomplish the end product.
With each individual task, I did measure, calculate, mark, scribe,
etc., but the general plans/schematics were in my head.

I'm always impressed by folk that can do that sort of thing
in their mind. I can't - I have to draw everything out on
a piece of paper, front, side, and top views, with dimensions.

1) The table top boards: Rough cut 2" thick, 11'10" long, about 19"
wide; air dried for 2 yrs before beginning work; After drying, they
were planed to 1 3/8" to 1 1/2" thick. There was some slight
variation in the planed thickness, along the length of each board,
because of 1) the large size of the boards and ....

Curious how you planed them. Do you have access to a monster
power planer, or a wide belt sander?

This separate assembly plan presented
another issue, with respect to expansion/contraction movement....
there would be open "cracks" (separation) along the mating surfaces.
This/these "opening" events will likely have to be corrected by,
periodically, manually closing the mating joints, from time to time.
I don't want to have to do this "manual closing".

Not sure I'm actually following this, but could you peg the
tenons from below, and keep the joints tight that way? Then
all the movement would be at the outer edge of the table.

John

Leon wrote:


LOL, is that question? IIRC 2015 is the latest.
Yes, how do you get all of the standard buttons on the left hand side,
like before?
Is there an option I couldn't locate?

Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:


LOL, is that question? IIRC 2015 is the latest.
Yes, how do you get all of the standard buttons on the left hand side,
like before?
Is there an option I couldn't locate?

Nevermind, I found it. It's called "Large Tool Set". It's easier to
find when you aren't trying to get something done.... I've always
used Large Tool Set, so things were a little awkward not using it.

Bill

On 7/21/2015 4:29 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:


LOL, is that question? IIRC 2015 is the latest.
Yes, how do you get all of the standard buttons on the left hand side,
like before?
Is there an option I couldn't locate?

Try opening the "large toolbar set" and simply drag it to the left side

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 7/21/2015 4:46 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/21/2015 4:29 PM, Bill wrote:

Yes, how do you get all of the standard buttons on the left hand side,
like before?
Is there an option I couldn't locate?

Try opening the "large toolbar set" and simply drag it to the left side

Took a call and by the time I hit send you'd found it ...


--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 7/21/2015 2:35 PM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:


LOL, is that question? IIRC 2015 is the latest.
Yes, how do you get all of the standard buttons on the left hand side,
like before?
Is there an option I couldn't locate?

Nevermind, I found it. It's called "Large Tool Set". It's easier to
find when you aren't trying to get something done.... I've always
used Large Tool Set, so things were a little awkward not using it.

Obviously you have found the View/Toolbar menu.

You can also move toolbars around. There is a thin dotted line at either
the left or the top of a tool set. If you place the the cursor over the
thin dotted line you will see a four arrow symbol like the one shown
with the move tool. Hold the cursor down and you can then move the tool
set. You can place tool sets almost anywhere. I.e. at the top, left,
right, bottom or floating around.


Dan

Swingman wrote:
On 7/21/2015 4:46 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/21/2015 4:29 PM, Bill wrote:

Yes, how do you get all of the standard buttons on the left hand side,
like before?
Is there an option I couldn't locate?

Try opening the "large toolbar set" and simply drag it to the left side

Took a call and by the time I hit send you'd found it ...

Thank you! It was easier to find the way the *day after* I did a
project in at least 3 hours (that would have taken only 30 minutes, if I
wasn't a bit rusty).

For instance, here is a challenge problem to the SU newbys that I ran
into: Try to draw a circle with just a little bit of the
perimeter/circumference missing, like 270-degrees, or 3/4 of a circle.
I relearned how to do it, indeed, in two different ways, but not without
getting a little frustrated first.

Cheers,
Bill

Leon wrote:


Well deep in mind Mike that the precision of hidden mortises and
tenons is not so important, and yes we are talking at least 64ths of
an inch, when it comes to what you actually see.

For instance if you are not cutting stock precisely the same length
for rails for door or face frames, way more accurate than 1/128", you
see gaps and cracks. Their lengths are not so important so much as
their lengths have to be dead nuts the same.

And then there was the last kitchen that Karl and I worked on where we
were dealing with measurements in the 64ths of an inch gap between
cabinet doors and drawers for the parts that you do see.

Basically you have to know and recognize when you have to be anally
accurate and when that is not so important. ;~)


Agreed. My point was not to diminish the times when that degree of accuracy
is relevant, but to acknowledge when it's not. We can get a little anal at
times here at the wRec and get carried away with pursuing precision when
it's not all that required. But - anal is good...

--

-Mike-

On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 3:25:47 PM UTC-5, John McCoy wrote:

Curious how you planed them. Do you have access to a monster
power planer, or a wide belt sander?

Initially, I had wanted to do the whole build by hand, including planing, no power tools, at all, but that turned out to be too big of job. I brought the boards to Lafayette Woodworks and they planed them. A nail was hit in the last board, so the guy stopped planing. That board remained 1/8" thicker than the other three.... 4 boards were planed and one board didn't pass the selection committee. In the end, the guy quoted me $25 for the planing. I paid him $50.

another issue, with respect to expansion/contraction movement....
there would be open "cracks" (separation) along the mating surfaces.

Not sure I'm actually following this, but could you peg the
tenons from below, and keep the joints tight that way? Then
all the movement would be at the outer edge of the table.

John

There was some confusion for me, too, with these doings: Glue the joints or not (and, now, dutchmans are in the mix). No glue meant 3 separate boards to contend with. Gluing the boards meant the "one piece" top would be heavy as heck and difficult to move, when/if need be. I had two options for attaching 1) the table top to the 2) two of two/three piece attaching mechanism (sliding dovetail assembly), which attached to 3) each leg unit. These combo of options presented for several alternatives, confusing when I tried to visualize/compare the workings of each option or option combo, as to which is best.

Leon's comment and, now, your comment reminded me: Well, duh, I don't have to worry about movement along a secured joint line, itself. As you say, its the edges of the outer boards and the center of the middle board that will move. I did realize this some months ago, but for some reason, I had completely forgotten about that...... thinking too much on the other options, I guess. Not the only time I've over-thought something and the mind went blank to the obvious. Must be the beer or highball, I use for mind food, and/or the Cajun music influence, when in the shop. There've been times, walking across the shop, and a good song is playing, I'll do a few two-steps along the way... keeps my blood flowing, but not necessarily my mind.

The tabletop, whether glued or not: I only need one fixed attachment to each leg unit. The rest of the width can move along the line of its leg. I don't need the top secured to the legs with any more attachments. The top's weight will/should keep it secure, otherwise, even with unruly folks crowded around it. The trestle board-leg units assembly is rock solid, when assembled.

Sonny

On 7/21/2015 5:16 PM, Bill wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 7/21/2015 4:46 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/21/2015 4:29 PM, Bill wrote:

Yes, how do you get all of the standard buttons on the left hand side,
like before?
Is there an option I couldn't locate?

Try opening the "large toolbar set" and simply drag it to the left side

Took a call and by the time I hit send you'd found it ...

Thank you! It was easier to find the way the *day after* I did a
project in at least 3 hours (that would have taken only 30 minutes, if I
wasn't a bit rusty).

For instance, here is a challenge problem to the SU newbys that I ran
into: Try to draw a circle with just a little bit of the
perimeter/circumference missing, like 270-degrees, or 3/4 of a circle. I
relearned how to do it, indeed, in two different ways, but not without
getting a little frustrated first.

Cheers,
Bill



If you simply choose the "arc" tool. ;~) Start the arc and then type
in the degrees.

On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 17:22:24 -0700 (PDT)
Sonny wrote:

Initially, I had wanted to do the whole build by hand, including
planing, no power tools, at all, but that turned out to be too big of
job. I brought the boards to Lafayette Woodworks and they planed
them. A nail was hit in the last board, so the guy stopped
planing. That board remained 1/8" thicker than the other three....
4 boards were planed and one board didn't pass the selection
committee. In the end, the guy quoted me $25 for the planing. I
paid him $50.

Surprised he didn't run a metal detector over the material. I have a hand
held wand type detector. Once I calibrate it quickly I never miss a nail. Of
course there are always those boards I'm sure don't have nails that I don't
check that do have a nail in them. Funny part is that it was some old wood
from a fence and the nail was like butter. For me knots have been more
of a problem than nails. One knot chipped my planer blade.

If I read the dimensions right that's quite a big table. Is it a commision
project? It is almost 12 feet long so maybe it's a conference table?

But how did the lumber end up with nails in it?

On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 9:38:54 AM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:

If I read the dimensions right that's quite a big table. Is it a commision
project? It is almost 12 feet long so maybe it's a conference table?

But how did the lumber end up with nails in it?

We demolished & salvaged an old cypress house, on the farm, and dozed two nearby walnut trees in the process. I had the log of one tree and several large limbs of the other tree milled. The other tree's trunk was no good for milling, plus it was highly suspect for having metal in it, being so close to the house, more so than the better tree. It's very common for trees, especially near homes, to have metal in them. Along old fence lines, trees likely have wire fencing and nails in them.

Before planing, the boards were thoroughly visibly inspected. Laf. Woodworks was as confident as I, that there were no nails in the boards. The nail was barely nicked and they decided it was no big deal, hence charging me only $25. The work was well worth more than that, to me. I was very pleased with the planing job. *The nail is still in the board, as character decor.

Five projects, so for, with the salvaged lumber and walnut lumber. There are a number of pics, for each, spread about my Flickr pages.
1) No pics, that I recall, were taken for the two bathroom corner cabinets.

2) Shaving horse, made from limb boards. Limb lumber is usually unstable, stress-loaded, not usually good for building stuff.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...in/photostream

3) Faux mantle place, for the camp https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...in/photostream

4) Gun cabinet, for the camp
https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...in/photostream

5) In-progress trestle dining table, maybe for the camp, not sure yet. https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...in/photostream

Original log. Some parts of the forks and parts of the rootballs were trimmed and given to a woodturner friend - https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...in/photostream

Old cypress house. The roof's cross pieces, for nailing the wooden shingles to, were hand split boards, that the gun cabinet was made with.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/438361...in/photostream

Sonny

Leon wrote:
On 7/21/2015 5:16 PM, Bill wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 7/21/2015 4:46 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/21/2015 4:29 PM, Bill wrote:

Yes, how do you get all of the standard buttons on the left hand
side,
like before?
Is there an option I couldn't locate?

Try opening the "large toolbar set" and simply drag it to the left
side

Took a call and by the time I hit send you'd found it ...

Thank you! It was easier to find the way the *day after* I did a
project in at least 3 hours (that would have taken only 30 minutes, if I
wasn't a bit rusty).

For instance, here is a challenge problem to the SU newbys that I ran
into: Try to draw a circle with just a little bit of the
perimeter/circumference missing, like 270-degrees, or 3/4 of a circle. I
relearned how to do it, indeed, in two different ways, but not without
getting a little frustrated first.

Cheers,
Bill



If you simply choose the "arc" tool. ;~) Start the arc and then type
in the degrees.

I figured that out later, when I was sketching some arcs! : )

On 7/22/2015 3:31 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 7/21/2015 5:16 PM, Bill wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 7/21/2015 4:46 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/21/2015 4:29 PM, Bill wrote:

Yes, how do you get all of the standard buttons on the left hand
side,
like before?
Is there an option I couldn't locate?

Try opening the "large toolbar set" and simply drag it to the left
side

Took a call and by the time I hit send you'd found it ...

Thank you! It was easier to find the way the *day after* I did a
project in at least 3 hours (that would have taken only 30 minutes, if I
wasn't a bit rusty).

For instance, here is a challenge problem to the SU newbys that I ran
into: Try to draw a circle with just a little bit of the
perimeter/circumference missing, like 270-degrees, or 3/4 of a circle. I
relearned how to do it, indeed, in two different ways, but not without
getting a little frustrated first.

Cheers,
Bill



If you simply choose the "arc" tool. ;~) Start the arc and then type
in the degrees.

I figured that out later, when I was sketching some arcs! : )


;~) You know some times if you start with a blank screen and click on
all of those icons one at a time to see what they do....

LOL

That is how I learn. But that said I have been working with CAD
programs since 1986 and knowing "what/that" they can do some things is
half the battle.

good on you!

Leon wrote:

That is how I learn. But that said I have been working with CAD
programs since 1986 and knowing "what/that" they can do some things is
half the battle.

I remembered "what they can do" collectively. I just couldn't remember
how to use them to do it! That said, I thinking "preaching sketchup" is
good. I've come to the belief that "good art" is the result of "good
design". "good enough" is another topic (and a perfectly valid one).
Don't get me wound up! ; )

I planted an 8' red maple today. It went in nice and "vertical" too,
sort of like a tree is supposed to be. Does that count as "Actual
Woodworking"? ; )

Bill

On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:32:03 -0700 (PDT)
Sonny wrote:

trunk was no good for milling, plus it was highly suspect for having
metal in it, being so close to the house, more so than the better
tree. It's very common for trees, especially near homes, to have
metal in them. Along old fence lines, trees likely have wire
fencing and nails in them.

good point I had not thought about


Before planing, the boards were thoroughly visibly inspected. Laf.
Woodworks was as confident as I, that there were no nails in the
boards. The nail was barely nicked and they decided it was no big
deal, hence charging me only $25. The work was well worth more than
that, to me. I was very pleased with the planing job. *The nail is
still in the board, as character decor.

can charge extra for that nail


Five projects, so for, with the salvaged lumber and walnut lumber.
There are a number of pics, for each, spread about my Flickr pages.

nice stuff some of that looks real stout



always have liked salvaged wood products
one other concern with salvage is bugs

i have seen them use space heaters and tarps and slow roast for a
few days

On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 5:24:18 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
I planted an 8' red maple today. It went in nice and "vertical" too,
sort of like a tree is supposed to be. Does that count as "Actual
Woodworking"? ; )

Bill

Sho-nuff!

Today, I donated some plants to the Master Gardeners, for their fall plant sale. The gardenias had woody stems. While at their gardens, I dressed up the Hobbit Hole, next to a big water oak, with some fresh Spanish moss.

Sonny

Bill wrote:

I planted an 8' red maple today. It went in nice and "vertical" too,
sort of like a tree is supposed to be. Does that count as "Actual
Woodworking"? ; )


Oh hell - call back when you turn it into lumber. Send pics...

--

-Mike-

On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 6:58:53 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:

Five projects, so for, with the salvaged lumber and walnut lumber.


nice stuff some of that looks real stout

Thanks. Long ago, I would build bulk furniture, etc, somewhat to compensate for my lack of skills. I'm getting better about that, but I do like the old(?) rural(?) bulky rustic look, to some extent & for some projects.

Sonny

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

I planted an 8' red maple today. It went in nice and "vertical" too,
sort of like a tree is supposed to be. Does that count as "Actual
Woodworking"? ; )

Oh hell - call back when you turn it into lumber.

I just Knew that was coming!

Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

I planted an 8' red maple today. It went in nice and "vertical" too,
sort of like a tree is supposed to be. Does that count as "Actual
Woodworking"? ; )

Oh hell - call back when you turn it into lumber.

I just Knew that was coming!

Cool. BTW - at 8ft, it's already long enough for lumber - just have to put
a little weight on it now.

--

-Mike-

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:04:12 -0700 (PDT)
Sonny wrote:

On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 6:58:53 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:

Five projects, so for, with the salvaged lumber and walnut lumber.


nice stuff some of that looks real stout

Thanks. Long ago, I would build bulk furniture, etc, somewhat to
compensate for my lack of skills. I'm getting better about that,
but I do like the old(?) rural(?) bulky rustic look, to some extent &
for some projects.

i like stuff that people care about doing especially if it is not a knock-off
or copy of something else

it always shows through

that old saying about don't let perfect get in the way of good enough
makes a lot of sense to me

i enjoy looking at museum quality pieces but it is not that fun to
obsess over minute details of fit and finish