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Default Hey - This can't really be Texas, can it?

On Saturday, June 13, 2015 at 4:04:58 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Do you have statistics on food poisoning by lemonade stand? I know
enough about food handling and safe practice to know the risk is
incredibly low. Lemonade is acidic and has good tolernce to the cooties.


No doubt. But take off the grandfatherly blinders... Not everyone will be as safe, sanitary or careful as you particular granddaughters. I can tell this must have hit a nerve for you to take this so literally. You must know that not all drink stands will be manned by conscientious young ladies with all care being made towards keeping their stand sanitary. Some stands might serve a carbonated drink; some a flavored drink like Kool Aid. Other possibilities exist. Not all stands will be manned by sweet young ladies serving only lemonade.

Maybe if I had grand kids my heart would melt when I saw a couple of them out selling food and drinks.

My granddaughters decided to sell lemonade in front of my house. Little
traffic on our street, but the first customer was the local policeman on
patrol Even tipped them. Once or twice a year I'll see a couple of
kids selling lemonade and I try to stop and get some. They appreciate it..


Again, no doubt. And the police around the here don't hassle the kids, either. Nor do they worry about the kid's groups that have car washes, sell bottles of water for their churches, etc. I personally don't care about the kids selling food and drinks at the side of the road, but I am glad when they cops make the young teenagers around here close their stands as they are selling drinks, sandwiches, snacks, etc. I don't know that they ever have, but I don't want them to make any of the really old people sick in my neighborhood that have "grandma and grandpaitis" that makes them think they should stop and drink or eat at one of those stands.

Truthfully, I don't care about the kids or whether they make anyone sick or not. I don't care about the people that get any kind of food poisoning at one of those stands. I have plenty to worry about besides small change like that.

I was ****ed off that I saw another soccer Mom that decided that her little angels were above the law, above its enforcement, and she decided what was right and what wasn't. Her kids of course, didn't have to play by the rules because they were obviously special. This of course was decided by yet another self entitle snot that is passing her attitudes clearly onto her kids.

REMEMBER... the only thing the little angels had to do was to get their hysterical mother to turn their sign around and write "donations accepted" or "suggested donation" or something like that. This didn't have to be on national news about the oppression of young children, the unfairness of society, more fodder for Fox news to screech about how America has lost it common sense, and then the Mom and her children on the morning shows talking about how everyone should just use common sense (ignoring the fact they were breaking the law) and then finally wind up on Oprah in tear hoping that the children could go on in such an unfair society. All they had to do is scribble 2 or 3 words on their sign and it would have been perfectly legal...

With about almost 2000 folks served over the years, by simply playing by the rules we have never had a problem with law enforcement.


But in reality you are circumventing the rules.


That is absolutely untrue. "Donations accepted" is perfectly legal. It is a well defined statute that is upheld by the San Antonio Health Department, the Sheriff's Department, and of course the Police. All one has to do is put the tiniest, most miniscule effort into playing by the rules and there isn't a problem.

But if you are s wounded soccer Mom looking for your time in the sun, this was a great stunt. I doubt the little girls had much to do with the outrage, and would probably been fine if they were told to just change two or three words on their sign. I think they were out there for their Dad, not for attention.

I trust the kids with
lemonade more that your potentially improperly handled and cooked food.


Well, we haven't made anyone sick yet. We have two members of our club that have trained all of us that handle the food and we spend a lot of time and money on sanitation. Of the two trainers, one has been in the food industry for about 25 years, owned and run his own restaurant, and currently trains people on proper serving and handling of food. The other works for a food wholesaler that travels doing food shows. He makes sure that temps are maintained, utensils are cleaned and stored properly, that we are all "gloved up", and that any sanitation issues are addressed as needed.

Could be contaminated with cigar ash.


That would be my worry. :^)

We are all careful in the prep and serving area, but still, those pesky ashes can be hard to control. Think it might add a different dimension of flavor to the beans, but not so good in the potato salad.

Robert

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Default Hey - This can't really be Texas, can it?

On 6/17/2015 2:00 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, June 13, 2015 at 4:04:58 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Do you have statistics on food poisoning by lemonade stand? I know
enough about food handling and safe practice to know the risk is
incredibly low. Lemonade is acidic and has good tolerance to the cooties.


No doubt. But take off the grandfatherly blinders... Not everyone will be as safe, sanitary or careful as you particular granddaughters. I can tell this must have hit a nerve for you to take this so literally. You must know that not all drink stands will be manned by conscientious young ladies with all care being made towards keeping their stand sanitary. Some stands might serve a carbonated drink; some a flavored drink like Kool Aid. Other possibilities exist. Not all stands will be manned by sweet young ladies serving only lemonade.

You don't have any facts about people getting sick from a lemonade stand
though. I could not find any.




I was ****ed off that I saw another soccer Mom that decided that her little angels were above the law, above its enforcement, and she decided what was right and what wasn't. Her kids of course, didn't have to play by the rules because they were obviously special. This of course was decided by yet another self entitle snot that is passing her attitudes clearly onto her kids.

REMEMBER... the only thing the little angels had to do was to get their hysterical mother to turn their sign around and write "donations accepted" or "suggested donation" or something like that. This didn't have to be on national news about the oppression of young children, the unfairness of society, more fodder for Fox news to screech about how America has lost it common sense, and then the Mom and her children on the morning shows talking about how everyone should just use common sense (ignoring the fact they were breaking the law) and then finally wind up on Oprah in tear hoping that the children could go on in such an unfair society. All they had to do is scribble 2 or 3 words on their sign and it would have been perfectly legal...


REMEMBER, all the cop had to do was explain that to the kids and mom.
You get ****ed at the mom over reacting but let the cop slide. Could
have been handled in two minutes and never made the news. It wasn't.

With about almost 2000 folks served over the years, by simply playing by the rules we have never had a problem with law enforcement.


But in reality you are circumventing the rules.


That is absolutely untrue. "Donations accepted" is perfectly legal. It is a well defined statute that is upheld by the San Antonio Health Department, the Sheriff's Department, and of course the Police. All one has to do is put the tiniest, most miniscule effort into playing by the rules and there isn't a problem.

So why did the cop not take two minutes to explain it? Done. Easy.


But if you are s wounded soccer Mom looking for your time in the sun, this was a great stunt. I doubt the little girls had much to do with the outrage, and would probably been fine if they were told to just change two or three words on their sign. I think they were out there for their Dad, not for attention.

It was a great stunt. Made a cop look like the asshole he is. Got what
he deserved, IMO.


I trust the kids with
lemonade more that your potentially improperly handled and cooked food.


Well, we haven't made anyone sick yet. We have two members of our club that have trained all of us that handle the food and we spend a lot of time and money on sanitation. Of the two trainers, one has been in the food industry for about 25 years, owned and run his own restaurant, and currently trains people on proper serving and handling of food. The other works for a food wholesaler that travels doing food shows. He makes sure that temps are maintained, utensils are cleaned and stored properly, that we are all "gloved up", and that any sanitation issues are addressed as needed.

Could be contaminated with cigar ash.


That would be my worry. :^)

We are all careful in the prep and serving area, but still, those pesky ashes can be hard to control. Think it might add a different dimension of flavor to the beans, but not so good in the potato salad.

Robert



How do I know that? The risks are far greater from a bunch of guys,
training unknown, serving cooked food. Accepting donations does not
make up for poor food handling techniques, it is simply a work around
for the normal restaurant regulations. You can ask about it, but don't
ask the police, they'd rather arrest you.
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Default Hey - This can't really be Texas, can it?

It does get slimy with mold. But the issue isn't Lemonade. That is
the micro-issue.

The issue was selling food from an unqualified kitchen and not having
a health certificate, and a sales permit. Seems much, but ever see
fast food sold on streets ? Push carts ? Now and then someone would
be stricken with something and the cart was transporting food poison
or germs.

It is sad, but it has been that way since the 50's and when I was
growing up. Can't sell balloons on the street either. Just a stupid
balloon.

Martin

On 6/17/2015 7:18 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 6/17/2015 2:00 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, June 13, 2015 at 4:04:58 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Do you have statistics on food poisoning by lemonade stand? I know
enough about food handling and safe practice to know the risk is
incredibly low. Lemonade is acidic and has good tolerance to the
cooties.


No doubt. But take off the grandfatherly blinders... Not everyone
will be as safe, sanitary or careful as you particular
granddaughters. I can tell this must have hit a nerve for you to take
this so literally. You must know that not all drink stands will be
manned by conscientious young ladies with all care being made towards
keeping their stand sanitary. Some stands might serve a carbonated
drink; some a flavored drink like Kool Aid. Other possibilities
exist. Not all stands will be manned by sweet young ladies serving
only lemonade.

You don't have any facts about people getting sick from a lemonade stand
though. I could not find any.




I was ****ed off that I saw another soccer Mom that decided that her
little angels were above the law, above its enforcement, and she
decided what was right and what wasn't. Her kids of course, didn't
have to play by the rules because they were obviously special. This
of course was decided by yet another self entitle snot that is passing
her attitudes clearly onto her kids.

REMEMBER... the only thing the little angels had to do was to get
their hysterical mother to turn their sign around and write "donations
accepted" or "suggested donation" or something like that. This didn't
have to be on national news about the oppression of young children,
the unfairness of society, more fodder for Fox news to screech about
how America has lost it common sense, and then the Mom and her
children on the morning shows talking about how everyone should just
use common sense (ignoring the fact they were breaking the law) and
then finally wind up on Oprah in tear hoping that the children could
go on in such an unfair society. All they had to do is scribble 2 or
3 words on their sign and it would have been perfectly legal...


REMEMBER, all the cop had to do was explain that to the kids and mom.
You get ****ed at the mom over reacting but let the cop slide. Could
have been handled in two minutes and never made the news. It wasn't.

With about almost 2000 folks served over the years, by simply
playing by the rules we have never had a problem with law enforcement.


But in reality you are circumventing the rules.


That is absolutely untrue. "Donations accepted" is perfectly legal.
It is a well defined statute that is upheld by the San Antonio Health
Department, the Sheriff's Department, and of course the Police. All
one has to do is put the tiniest, most miniscule effort into playing
by the rules and there isn't a problem.

So why did the cop not take two minutes to explain it? Done. Easy.


But if you are s wounded soccer Mom looking for your time in the sun,
this was a great stunt. I doubt the little girls had much to do with
the outrage, and would probably been fine if they were told to just
change two or three words on their sign. I think they were out there
for their Dad, not for attention.

It was a great stunt. Made a cop look like the asshole he is. Got what
he deserved, IMO.


I trust the kids with
lemonade more that your potentially improperly handled and cooked food.


Well, we haven't made anyone sick yet. We have two members of our
club that have trained all of us that handle the food and we spend a
lot of time and money on sanitation. Of the two trainers, one has
been in the food industry for about 25 years, owned and run his own
restaurant, and currently trains people on proper serving and handling
of food. The other works for a food wholesaler that travels doing
food shows. He makes sure that temps are maintained, utensils are
cleaned and stored properly, that we are all "gloved up", and that any
sanitation issues are addressed as needed.

Could be contaminated with cigar ash.


That would be my worry. :^)

We are all careful in the prep and serving area, but still, those
pesky ashes can be hard to control. Think it might add a different
dimension of flavor to the beans, but not so good in the potato salad.

Robert



How do I know that? The risks are far greater from a bunch of guys,
training unknown, serving cooked food. Accepting donations does not
make up for poor food handling techniques, it is simply a work around
for the normal restaurant regulations. You can ask about it, but don't
ask the police, they'd rather arrest you.

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Default Hey - This can't really be Texas, can it?

On Wednesday, June 17, 2015 at 7:18:34 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

You don't have any facts about people getting sick from a lemonade stand
though. I could not find any.


I never said I did. You are only thinking of cute girls selling lemonade, I am thinking of the whole picture of a community of street side food sellers.

REMEMBER, all the cop had to do was explain that to the kids and mom.
You get ****ed at the mom over reacting but let the cop slide. Could
have been handled in two minutes and never made the news. It wasn't.


Well, while you are concentrating in such a focused manner on facts, how do you know he didn't? Do you know for a fact that he didn't?


So why did the cop not take two minutes to explain it? Done. Easy.


Again, how do you know he didn't do just that? He didn't write the parents a citation or a ticket. How do you know he wasn't just a polite guy that told the kids and their mother that the way they were doing it wasn't allowed?

It was a great stunt. Made a cop look like the asshole he is. Got what
he deserved, IMO.


Bashing of law enforcement is a really popular sport right now and in some cases, no doubt deserved. If you feel that he "got what he deserved" by enforcing the law, I am sure you must have personal knowledge of why that is so. I will defer to your knowledge of the man personally and his professional service record; I don't know him, nor was I there at the time he asked them to fold up their table.

How do I know that?


I am not sure what it is you know...


The risks are far greater from a bunch of guys,
training unknown, serving cooked food.


Reading carefully you can see that we are trained by professionals that train for a living that make their living in the food business doing just that.. Sorry if I was unclear in my description of their training and qualifications.

Accepting donations does not
make up for poor food handling techniques, it is simply a work around
for the normal restaurant regulations.


Now you are being deliberately obtuse. You are making a classic straw man argument out of two separate issues. To be clear, accepting donations is accepted by the law enforcement community and the city health board. We are skirting NOTHING, and not trying to deceive or conceal anything. Every event we have the police come by to visit (we give men in uniform free plates of food) and this last event we had the city health inspector come by. Regardless of our donation status, they can still stick a thermometer in our food anytime they feel like it if we are serving to the general public. Likewise, they inspect hand washing stations, gloves, food storage, food prep and utensil storage and use. Since we serve the public we have to (and rightfully so in my opinion) agree to those stipulations.

So WTF are we "working around"?

You can ask about it, but don't
ask the police, they'd rather arrest you.


I'll have to ask the police, or at our next event, the MPs on base those questions while they are chowing down in their Christmas Eve meal. They may not be too worried about what we are serving and how as at San Antonio Military Medical Center and the adjoining Fisher House they have their own compliance officers that inspect our food handling, preparation and serving as well as all sanitation techniques. They will not take a chance on any hospitalized soldiers or their families getting sick, so they do their own compliance inspections and will shut down the whole dinner for any violations.

On consideration, all in all probably not too different from the stringent observation of compliance issues dealt with by the lemonade girls.

Robert

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Default Hey - This can't really be Texas, can it?

On 6/18/2015 1:11 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2015 at 7:18:34 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

You don't have any facts about people getting sick from a lemonade stand
though. I could not find any.


I never said I did. You are only thinking of cute girls selling lemonade, I am thinking of the whole picture of a community of street side food sellers.

REMEMBER, all the cop had to do was explain that to the kids and mom.
You get ****ed at the mom over reacting but let the cop slide. Could
have been handled in two minutes and never made the news. It wasn't.


Well, while you are concentrating in such a focused manner on facts, how do you know he didn't? Do you know for a fact that he didn't?


So why did the cop not take two minutes to explain it? Done. Easy.


Again, how do you know he didn't do just that? He didn't write the parents a citation or a ticket. How do you know he wasn't just a polite guy that told the kids and their mother that the way they were doing it wasn't allowed?

It was a great stunt. Made a cop look like the asshole he is. Got what
he deserved, IMO.


Bashing of law enforcement is a really popular sport right now and in some cases, no doubt deserved. If you feel that he "got what he deserved" by enforcing the law, I am sure you must have personal knowledge of why that is so. I will defer to your knowledge of the man personally and his professional service record; I don't know him, nor was I there at the time he asked them to fold up their table.

How do I know that?


I am not sure what it is you know...


The risks are far greater from a bunch of guys,
training unknown, serving cooked food.


Reading carefully you can see that we are trained by professionals that train for a living that make their living in the food business doing just that. Sorry if I was unclear in my description of their training and qualifications.

Accepting donations does not
make up for poor food handling techniques, it is simply a work around
for the normal restaurant regulations.


Now you are being deliberately obtuse. You are making a classic straw man argument out of two separate issues. To be clear, accepting donations is accepted by the law enforcement community and the city health board. We are skirting NOTHING, and not trying to deceive or conceal anything. Every event we have the police come by to visit (we give men in uniform free plates of food) and this last event we had the city health inspector come by. Regardless of our donation status, they can still stick a thermometer in our food anytime they feel like it if we are serving to the general public. Likewise, they inspect hand washing stations, gloves, food storage, food prep and utensil storage and use. Since we serve the public we have to (and rightfully so in my opinion) agree to those stipulations.

So WTF are we "working around"?


OK, lets cut the BS. You are POd because some soccer mom made a big
deal of what the cop did. It has nothing to do with lemonade, it has
everything to do with her getting publicity.

You mention that lemonade not properly prepared can be unhealthy. You
accuse me of bringing in a straw man arguments, but the fact is, you
brought it in. You don't want kids selling potentially contaminated
lemonade, yet you say it is OK to give food away, no matter how poorly
prepared it is just because you are asking for donations, as opposed to
selling.

Perhaps your setup is perfect, but others not so perfect can do the same
thing as long as it is for donations.

Bring the argument to where it belongs. It has nothing to do with food.
It has everything to do with a poorly handled situation that could
have been handled in minutes with no publicity.

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