I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I
haven't done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that
needed to be painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long will
it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?

Just to answer a possible question you might have in advance, each door
will only be 17" wide but very high as I pointed out.

TIA.

Dick Snyder

On 04/16/2015 4:09 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I
haven't done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that
needed to be painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long will
it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?

Just to answer a possible question you might have in advance, each door
will only be 17" wide but very high as I pointed out.

....

Poplar itself is generally quite stable presuming it's been dried and
not abused in storage. For such a long stile you probably ought to
think about having more than one center rail--three panels instead of
just two, iow...

--

Dick Snyder wrote:
I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I
haven't done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that
needed to be painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long will
it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?

Just to answer a possible question you might have in advance, each
door will only be 17" wide but very high as I pointed out.

TIA.

Dick Snyder

Hi Dick:

Not sure why you even say "like cheap pine does". I've built doors and
frames out of that cheap pine with no problems at all - after 30 years. A
great number of the doors you might buy from a retail outlet are that "cheap
pine"l It's more in how you build them than what you build them out of.
Are you planning to put a rail between the styles mid way up? If so, this
will significantly strenthen the door. 17" wide is quite narrow and even
that "cheap pine" can hold up well for that construction.

--

-Mike-

If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long will
it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?

It may or may not.

Cut one or two, 1/2" wider, then trim to size, if needed. If there's no flex, during initial cutting, and you feel confident there won't be any flex, then cut the remainders to appropriate size.

Sonny

On 4/16/2015 5:09 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I
haven't done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that
needed to be painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long will
it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?

Just to answer a possible question you might have in advance, each door
will only be 17" wide but very high as I pointed out.

TIA.

Dick Snyder

There's no way o answer that. It depends on the wood.

--
Jeff

"Dick Snyder" wrote in message
...
I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I haven't
done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that needed to be
painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long will it spring apart
or together like cheap pine does?

Just to answer a possible question you might have in advance, each door
will only be 17" wide but very high as I pointed out.


"Cheap pine"! Clear pine is far from cheap.

Dick Snyder wrote in news:dvWdnd-z2ruSuK3InZ2dnUU7-
:

I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I
haven't done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that
needed to be painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long will
it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?

Some poplar does seem to have a lot of stress in it, and
twists when ripped. I don't know that there's any way you
could identify a board that's likely to do so in advance.

John

On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 17:09:40 -0400, Dick Snyder
wrote:

I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I
haven't done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that
needed to be painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long will
it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?

Just to answer a possible question you might have in advance, each door
will only be 17" wide but very high as I pointed out.

TIA.

Dick Snyder
Poplar tends to be a lot more stable than cheap pine.
Also sold as "american white wood" - the grain is very fine and
straight..

Dick Snyder wrote:

I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at
our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I
haven't done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that
needed to be painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long
will
it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Reduce your vertical panel sizes by adding horizontal rails.

I'd shoot for something 30" max or even less for 3 even 4 panels.

Lew

Dick Snyder wrote:
I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I
haven't done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that
needed to be painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long will
it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?

I often use poplar; in fact, I have 175 brd.ft. in my shop now waiting for
me to surface and chop up.

I have never had any that wasn't stabile. Which does not mean it can't be,
depends upon the particular board.

Just to answer a possible question you might have in advance, each
door will only be 17" wide but very high as I pointed out.

I hope you are going to have numerous rails in those doors.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 18:13:35 -0400, "EXT"
wrote:


"Dick Snyder" wrote in message
...
I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I haven't
done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that needed to be
painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long will it spring apart
or together like cheap pine does?

Just to answer a possible question you might have in advance, each door
will only be 17" wide but very high as I pointed out.


"Cheap pine"! Clear pine is far from cheap.
And "cheap pine" is far from "clear"

On 4/16/2015 5:44 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote:
I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I
haven't done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that
needed to be painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long will
it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?

Just to answer a possible question you might have in advance, each
door will only be 17" wide but very high as I pointed out.

TIA.

Dick Snyder

Hi Dick:

Not sure why you even say "like cheap pine does". I've built doors and
frames out of that cheap pine with no problems at all - after 30 years. A
great number of the doors you might buy from a retail outlet are that "cheap
pine"l It's more in how you build them than what you build them out of.
Are you planning to put a rail between the styles mid way up? If so, this
will significantly strenthen the door. 17" wide is quite narrow and even
that "cheap pine" can hold up well for that construction.

Yes, I am planning two 4" rails top and middle and 6" on the bottom. I
am making a prototype out of cheap pine that I got at Home Depot that
behaved badly when I ripped it. That is why the comment. No offense
intended.

On 4/16/2015 6:53 PM, John McCoy wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote in news:dvWdnd-z2ruSuK3InZ2dnUU7-
:

I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I
haven't done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that
needed to be painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long will
it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?

Some poplar does seem to have a lot of stress in it, and
twists when ripped. I don't know that there's any way you
could identify a board that's likely to do so in advance.

John

Maybe I can see the growth rings at the end of the board. It they are
close together maybe I can predict that it will behave well.

On 4/16/2015 8:14 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote:
I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I
haven't done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that
needed to be painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long will
it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?

I often use poplar; in fact, I have 175 brd.ft. in my shop now waiting for
me to surface and chop up.

I have never had any that wasn't stabile. Which does not mean it can't be,
depends upon the particular board.

Just to answer a possible question you might have in advance, each
door will only be 17" wide but very high as I pointed out.

I hope you are going to have numerous rails in those doors.

Making a prototype now (out of low quality pine I got at HD). Right now
I am planning the upper and middle rail for 4" and the lower for 6".
That is why I am doing the prototype. I may go for 4 rails. I will put
in 4 hinges so it won't rack too much.

On 4/16/2015 7:45 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote:

I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at
our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I
haven't done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that
needed to be painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long
will
it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Reduce your vertical panel sizes by adding horizontal rails.

I'd shoot for something 30" max or even less for 3 even 4 panels.

Lew



With two panels I have 10 3/4" wide and about 35" high. Weird. If this
doesn't work on my prototype I will add a fourth rail.

On Thursday, April 16, 2015 at 6:55:00 PM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote in news:dvWdnd-z2ruSuK3InZ2dnUU7-
:

I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I
haven't done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that
needed to be painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long will
it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?

Some poplar does seem to have a lot of stress in it, and
twists when ripped. I don't know that there's any way you
could identify a board that's likely to do so in advance.

John

For what it's worth, I started a thread a couple of months ago about the color of poplar and how it acted when ripping. I found that the darker the poplar was, the more it tended to bind on the splitter.

I eventually put the darkest (purplest) pieces aside and (carefully) ripped them without the splitter/guard installed.

On 4/16/2015 8:10 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:

Making a prototype now (out of low quality pine I got at HD). Right now
I am planning the upper and middle rail for 4" and the lower for 6".
That is why I am doing the prototype. I may go for 4 rails. I will put
in 4 hinges so it won't rack too much.

Make your prototype out of this, it may surprise you:

http://www.homedepot.com/b/Lumber-Co...vZbqmcZ1z11rx0

Used quite a bit of this select clear pine in a kitchen remodel the past
few days, for built-in, paint grade cabinetry additions, in lieu of
poplar, and in order to match the existing wood.

Having cut a bunch of it, was impressed with its stability and workability.

Regardless of the wood, when doing doors you make your money when you
buy your stock, so be extra choosy. Stick with straight grain, and flat,
straight as an arrow stock to start with.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Dick Snyder wrote:

Yes, I am planning two 4" rails top and middle and 6" on the bottom. I
am making a prototype out of cheap pine that I got at Home Depot that
behaved badly when I ripped it. That is why the comment. No offense
intended.

Oh - no offense taken. I wouldn't work with any wood that reacted when
ripped though, unless you were able to run it through again and end up with
a decent board. Perhaps that's what you experienced but just did not
elaborate on.

--

-Mike-

On 4/16/2015 4:48 PM, Sonny wrote:
If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long will
it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?

It may or may not.

Cut one or two, 1/2" wider, then trim to size, if needed. If there's no flex, during initial cutting, and you feel confident there won't be any flex, then cut the remainders to appropriate size.

Sonny



There is the correct answer and that goes for any species of wood. Buy
your wood from a reputable supplier and the chance decreases.

On 4/16/2015 6:45 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote:

I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at
our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I
haven't done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that
needed to be painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long
will
it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Reduce your vertical panel sizes by adding horizontal rails.

I'd shoot for something 30" max or even less for 3 even 4 panels.

Lew



Adding more rails does not shorten 85" long stiles. The stiles are just
as likely to distort with or with out more than a top and bottom rail
and multiple panels.

Leon wrote:

Adding more rails does not shorten 85" long stiles. The stiles are
just as likely to distort with or with out more than a top and bottom
rail and multiple panels.

Now I would expect that the rails would indeed stabilize the stiles. Seems
sort of obvious since you're shortening the unsupported length.
--

-Mike-

wrote in news:vgf0jat9romhstqsj45uegkaohusttun9g@
4ax.com:

Poplar tends to be a lot more stable than cheap pine.
Also sold as "american white wood" - the grain is very fine and
straight..

Beware of using the term "white wood". Prior to the appearance
of Home Depot and the other "big boxes", white wood was a common
name for poplar (and it still is amoung some lumbermen). Home
Depot et al have instead used "white wood" to refer to SPF
(spruce/pine/fir) - in other words, "cheap pine".

John

On 4/17/2015 6:39 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:

Adding more rails does not shorten 85" long stiles. The stiles are
just as likely to distort with or with out more than a top and bottom
rail and multiple panels.

Now I would expect that the rails would indeed stabilize the stiles. Seems
sort of obvious since you're shortening the unsupported length.



The door panels can still warp along the length, front to back, with
multiple rails. The rails will help work against the stiles bowing
toward or away from each other but not away or towards the cabinet itself.

On 4/17/2015 8:56 AM, Leon wrote:
On 4/17/2015 6:39 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:

Adding more rails does not shorten 85" long stiles. The stiles are
just as likely to distort with or with out more than a top and bottom
rail and multiple panels.

Now I would expect that the rails would indeed stabilize the stiles.
Seems
sort of obvious since you're shortening the unsupported length.



The door panels can still warp along the length, front to back, with
multiple rails. The rails will help work against the stiles bowing
toward or away from each other but not away or towards the cabinet itself.


OOPS The door STILES not the door panels can still warp along the
length front to back.

On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 17:09:40 -0400, Dick Snyder
wrote:

I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I
haven't done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that
needed to be painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long will
it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?

Just to answer a possible question you might have in advance, each door
will only be 17" wide but very high as I pointed out.

Poplar I have ripped did neither, that was about 100 BF. Now that does
not mean anything really.

On 4/16/2015 10:53 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/16/2015 8:10 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:

Making a prototype now (out of low quality pine I got at HD). Right now
I am planning the upper and middle rail for 4" and the lower for 6".
That is why I am doing the prototype. I may go for 4 rails. I will put
in 4 hinges so it won't rack too much.

Make your prototype out of this, it may surprise you:

http://www.homedepot.com/b/Lumber-Co...vZbqmcZ1z11rx0



That stuff is actually pretty darn good and not tough to get good
pieces. As with any wood look at each piece, but it typically is as
good as you get.

On 4/17/15 10:13 AM, Leon wrote:
On 4/16/2015 10:53 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/16/2015 8:10 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:

Making a prototype now (out of low quality pine I got at HD).
Right now I am planning the upper and middle rail for 4" and the
lower for 6". That is why I am doing the prototype. I may go for
4 rails. I will put in 4 hinges so it won't rack too much.

Make your prototype out of this, it may surprise you:

http://www.homedepot.com/b/Lumber-Co...vZbqmcZ1z11rx0





That stuff is actually pretty darn good and not tough to get good
pieces. As with any wood look at each piece, but it typically is as
good as you get.


Yeah, it can be a time saver. Expensive but can get you out of a bind
if you're in a hurry.
The Lowes near me used to carry a gorgeous selection of Douglas Fir.
Talk about straight grain! Man, I miss that stuff.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:30:04 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

wrote in news:vgf0jat9romhstqsj45uegkaohusttun9g@
4ax.com:

Poplar tends to be a lot more stable than cheap pine.
Also sold as "american white wood" - the grain is very fine and
straight..

Beware of using the term "white wood". Prior to the appearance
of Home Depot and the other "big boxes", white wood was a common
name for poplar (and it still is amoung some lumbermen). Home
Depot et al have instead used "white wood" to refer to SPF
(spruce/pine/fir) - in other words, "cheap pine".

John
Up here in Canadfa Home Despot still sells "american white wood" -
and it is Poplar or Aspen

On 4/17/2015 9:53 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 4/17/15 10:13 AM, Leon wrote:
On 4/16/2015 10:53 PM, Swingman wrote:

http://www.homedepot.com/b/Lumber-Co...vZbqmcZ1z11rx0



That stuff is actually pretty darn good and not tough to get good
pieces. As with any wood look at each piece, but it typically is as
good as you get.


Yeah, it can be a time saver. Expensive but can get you out of a bind
if you're in a hurry.
The Lowes near me used to carry a gorgeous selection of Douglas Fir.
Talk about straight grain! Man, I miss that stuff.


McCoy's (3/4 mile from me) used to carry yellow pine that was
exceptional. I made a lot of "stuff" with it.
I still have a piece of Ponderosa Pine, 2X8X12 that is straight as an
arrow. Got it at Austin Hardwoods here. Came from Mexico.

On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 12:53:15 PM UTC-4, Max wrote:
On 4/17/2015 9:53 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 4/17/15 10:13 AM, Leon wrote:
On 4/16/2015 10:53 PM, Swingman wrote:

http://www.homedepot.com/b/Lumber-Co...vZbqmcZ1z11rx0



That stuff is actually pretty darn good and not tough to get good
pieces. As with any wood look at each piece, but it typically is as
good as you get.


Yeah, it can be a time saver. Expensive but can get you out of a bind
if you're in a hurry.
The Lowes near me used to carry a gorgeous selection of Douglas Fir.
Talk about straight grain! Man, I miss that stuff.


McCoy's (3/4 mile from me) used to carry yellow pine that was
exceptional. I made a lot of "stuff" with it.
I still have a piece of Ponderosa Pine, 2X8X12 that is straight as an
arrow. Got it at Austin Hardwoods here. Came from Mexico.

http://www.threepointsdesign.com/new...rrow-wvane.jpg

On 4/17/2015 10:58 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 12:53:15 PM UTC-4, Max wrote:
On 4/17/2015 9:53 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 4/17/15 10:13 AM, Leon wrote:
On 4/16/2015 10:53 PM, Swingman wrote:

http://www.homedepot.com/b/Lumber-Co...vZbqmcZ1z11rx0



That stuff is actually pretty darn good and not tough to get good
pieces. As with any wood look at each piece, but it typically is as
good as you get.


Yeah, it can be a time saver. Expensive but can get you out of a bind
if you're in a hurry.
The Lowes near me used to carry a gorgeous selection of Douglas Fir.
Talk about straight grain! Man, I miss that stuff.


McCoy's (3/4 mile from me) used to carry yellow pine that was
exceptional. I made a lot of "stuff" with it.
I still have a piece of Ponderosa Pine, 2X8X12 that is straight as an
arrow. Got it at Austin Hardwoods here. Came from Mexico.

http://www.threepointsdesign.com/new...rrow-wvane.jpg


LOL. Nah, wasn't that kind of arrow. There's a mountain pass in New
Mexico called "Flechado Chueco"....Crooked Arrow.

On 04/17/2015 11:53 AM, Max wrote:
....

I still have a piece of Ponderosa Pine, 2X8X12 that is straight as an
arrow. Got it at Austin Hardwoods here. Came from Mexico.

Speaking of that kinda' thing, there are still a dozen or so 2X12x20(!)
Doug fir up in the hayloft that were from the construction of the small
feed mill and bins we put in the hayloft back in late '50s/early '60s.
Quite a bit of 16' stuff from 2x6 up. I haven't been able to bring
myself to even touch any of it; virtually all of it is totally clear.

I doubt one could order a 20-footer these days, what more find it in a
yard but I remember Dad just called up and had stuff delivered back then...

The barn itself was built right after rationing was lifted after WW-I
(the foundation was poured before but grandfather didn't get the lumber
before rationing hit so it sat for a few years) from SYP. The posts are
three to five 2x6 or 2x8 nailed together and the ones down the sides of
the two aisles of the mow to the break of the roof pitch are 20-ft as
well. It's nearly 30-ft from the mow floor to the center ridge, just
under 40 to the ground...standing on the roof ridge while reroofing
could see well over the front edge of the 40-ft silos...

I've cut some of the old SYP from either reclaimed or lain around and
the growth rings from end are 1/16" max...none of this fast-growth stuff
of today.

--dpb

On 4/16/2015 5:09 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I haven't
done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that needed to be
painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long will it spring apart
or together like cheap pine does?

Just to answer a possible question you might have in advance, each door
will only be 17" wide but very high as I pointed out.

TIA.

Dick Snyder

If you have good stock then there should be no problems with 'springing'
but if you are unlucky enough to buy crap wood then almost anything is
possible when ripping. You'd be surprised at how many different directions
a single piece of wood will try to go when relieving its internal stresses.

On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 17:09:40 -0400
Dick Snyder wrote:

I am planning to make some frame and panel doors for a project at our
church. The doors will be painted. The doors will be tall (85"). I
haven't done much with poplar other than a cabinet and shelves that
needed to be painted. If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long
will it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?

you never know what the piece you have will do until you do it
i don't know poplar at all

2-inches seems narrow for 85-inch length

Electric Comet wrote in news:mgsb8v$chl$3
@dont-email.me:

On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 17:09:40 -0400
Dick Snyder wrote:

If I rip the stiles at 2" wide and 85" long
will it spring apart or together like cheap pine does?

2-inches seems narrow for 85-inch length

It's reasonable for a stile. A 2" stile on each side of a
17" door means the panel will be 13" wide. Make the stiles
any wider and the panel would be so narrow that it would
look odd.

John