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[email protected] December 30th 13 05:45 PM
Hmmmm.... table saw cabinet twisted after moving between shops... options?
 
Greetings!

So, after months without my shop due to moving and a need to reinforce some joists to remove interfering lally columns in the basement of my new house, I finally had movers come to get my shop into my new basement.

The movers were cutrate local guys but they said they would bring three people and asked that nothing weigh over 300 lbs. Sure, I can do that, just take the top off my saw and everything else is good. My buddy (a big guy with a strong back) actually carried the saw himself with the motor out but the main granite top on and I assume the top and the motor are similar in weight. In any case, three movers should have been able to easily handle my saw.

I had 96 hours to report any issues with the move... I see a coupla things that are minor damage that I should report, but nothing that amounts to more than a coupla bucks as far as I can tell.

Famous last words... reassembling my 3 hp Steel City hybrid saw, I notice an abrasion on the back side of the saw. Ruh roh raggy. Aligning the slot with the blade, I can only get it within about .050" with all the bolts in. Huh... runout, perhaps? I take the two bolts out on the non-tilt wheel side of the table and attempt to realign it. Now I can easily get .004". Crap. So they twisted the frame of my saw. I should have bought a steel plate and bolted it to the top of my cabinet. But I didn't.

I can get all four bolts in the top through the holes in the saw frame but then the alignment is crap at best.

I am outside the reporting period and will let the mover know but have little expectation that they will do anything about it - and if they did, it would probably involve a great deal of hassle for me, including swapping my motor and trunnions onto a new frame, or some other equally painful experience. And, as I note in #1 below, my best solution involves messing with trunnions anyway so trying to get a new cabinet out of the mover, while appropriate, really doesn't do me much good. And is more painful than all of my options I list below.

Was thinking there were a number of options:

1. Move the trunnions. Since I can get all four bolts in the top, and the misalignment is not runout, but rather that the frame of the saw is twisted, this should be an option. Seems the best solution, but likely the most painful.

2. Redrill some of the holes in the cabinet to accommodate the new geometry.. Highly unlikely.

3. Try to whack or twist the saw back into place. This is almost as good as number one, but also, I am not sure really if this can be done without a great deal of sweat and hassle.

4. This one I really kinda like because I am back in the shop today (!), but concerns me some: only use two bolts to attach the granite top to the saw. There is good contact between the top and the cabinet, and with the weight of the top, I really don't foresee issues with vibration.

I really do like #1 and may actually give it a whirl, but not before contacting steel city. Prolly do #4 initially and see how things go in terms of the cutting and the stability of the alignment.

Anyone else have alternate suggestions, please let me know.

TIA,

Peter

Morgans December 30th 13 06:31 PM
Hmmmm.... table saw cabinet twisted after moving between shops... options?
 


wrote in message
... Anyone else
have alternate suggestions, please let me know.


Shim the base of the saw perfectly level, on a piece of ply or something.
Then get your best 4 foot level and framing square and see if you can
determine exactly how it is off. From there, removing the twist with some
pipe clamps and perhaps a 2x4 C-clamped to the frame shouldn't be that big
of a deal. I would definitely try to improve it.

Jim in NC


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Mike Marlow[_2_] December 30th 13 07:33 PM
Hmmmm.... table saw cabinet twisted after moving between shops... options?
 
wrote:



The movers were cutrate local guys but they said they would bring
three people and asked that nothing weigh over 300 lbs. Sure, I can
do that, just take the top off my saw and everything else is good.
My buddy (a big guy with a strong back) actually carried the saw
himself with the motor out but the main granite top on and I assume
the top and the motor are similar in weight. In any case, three
movers should have been able to easily handle my saw.


Ok - see something here?

I had 96 hours to report any issues with the move... I see a coupla
things that are minor damage that I should report, but nothing that
amounts to more than a coupla bucks as far as I can tell.


Which leaves a lot of room for questions based on what you say below...

Famous last words... reassembling my 3 hp Steel City hybrid saw, I
notice an abrasion on the back side of the saw.

So - exactly what does this mean? Sheet metal "abrasions" need not point to
any other deeper problems. In fact - likely would not.

Ruh roh raggy.
Aligning the slot with the blade, I can only get it within about
.050" with all the bolts in. Huh... runout, perhaps?

The first question that comes to my mind is whether you had even done this
prior to the move. What was the alignment of the saw prior to the move?
Runout? Really? How do you figure that?

I take the two
bolts out on the non-tilt wheel side of the table and attempt to
realign it. Now I can easily get .004". Crap. So they twisted the
frame of my saw.

What in the world makes you say that? Your "crap" statement could easily be
that the saw was never any more accurate than that in the first place, and
it could equally be as likely that your strong friend contributed to any
misalignment. I really find it very difficult to envision that either the
movers or your friend "twisted the fame of your saw". If they did - I'd be
buying a new saw because yours is clearly junk.

I should have bought a steel plate and bolted it to
the top of my cabinet. But I didn't.

Why?


I can get all four bolts in the top through the holes in the saw
frame but then the alignment is crap at best.

So - what is "crap"? Again - what was the alignment prior to the move?


I am outside the reporting period and will let the mover know but
have little expectation that they will do anything about it - and if
they did, it would probably involve a great deal of hassle for me,
including swapping my motor

Why swap your motor?


and trunnions onto a new frame

Again - why? This thing didn't fall from two stories up in the air.

, or some
other equally painful experience.

You are starting to sound like you are looking for an "equally painful
experience".


And, as I note in #1 below, my
best solution involves messing with trunnions anyway so trying to get
a new cabinet out of the mover, while appropriate, really doesn't do
me much good. And is more painful than all of my options I list
below.

While appropriate? Why is that?


Was thinking there were a number of options:

1. Move the trunnions. Since I can get all four bolts in the top,
and the misalignment is not runout, but rather that the frame of the
saw is twisted, this should be an option. Seems the best solution,
but likely the most painful.

Why do you keep talking about runout? Do you know what runout is? How does
that relate to trunions? So - just how in the hell do you think they
managed to "twist" the frame of your saw?


2. Redrill some of the holes in the cabinet to accommodate the new
geometry. Highly unlikely.

I think this is your best bet since you clearly think you see something that
isn't there, and only re-drilling can fix that kind of problem.



3. Try to whack or twist the saw back into place. This is almost as
good as number one, but also, I am not sure really if this can be
done without a great deal of sweat and hassle.

It does take some hassle to align trunions. That's what happens when you
take saws apart. Geeze - get over it and just do the work and put the saw
back into service. I think you're looking to place blame where no blame may
exist.


4. This one I really kinda like because I am back in the shop today
(!), but concerns me some: only use two bolts to attach the granite
top to the saw. There is good contact between the top and the
cabinet, and with the weight of the top, I really don't foresee
issues with vibration.

You should go with this since it appears to make you happy.


I really do like #1 and may actually give it a whirl, but not before
contacting steel city. Prolly do #4 initially and see how things go
in terms of the cutting and the stability of the alignment.

Anyone else have alternate suggestions, please let me know.


Sure - take a deep breath, and step back a bit Peter. You moved a saw.
It's likely under the circumstances that things shifted. That is not a
reflection of bad moving or anything else - it's just how things go. Your
mistake is in thinking you could simply unbolt and rebolt and everything
would be as it should be. So - just take the time... hell, it's only a
short exercise, and do a complete alignment on your saw. It's to be
expected. Then - go use the thing and make yourself happy again.

--

-Mike-



dpb December 30th 13 09:18 PM
Hmmmm.... table saw cabinet twisted after moving between shops...options?
 
On 12/30/2013 11:45 AM, wrote:
....

... reassembling my 3 hp Steel City hybrid saw, ...Aligning
the slot with the blade, I can only get it within about .050" with all
the bolts in. Huh... runout, perhaps? I take the two bolts out on the
non-tilt wheel side of the table and attempt to realign it. Now I can
easily get .004". Crap. So they twisted the frame of my saw. I should
have bought a steel plate and bolted it to the top of my cabinet. But I
didn't.

I can get all four bolts in the top through the holes in the saw
frame but then the alignment is crap at best.

_NOT_ runout; totally different measurement.

I'll mostly echo Morgans' response but w/ a slightly different suggestion...

Presuming the bolt locations are symmetric, measuring the diagonals
would be easier to determine the amount off and in which direction.

Then knowing that, put a bolt well into the two locations on the longer
measurementand use a heavy wire loop and then twisting will shorten that
dimension. Release and repeat measurement until stays in desired
location; you'll undoubtedly have to go a little extra with the
inevitable spring-back.

This will work even if the holes aren't symmetric as far as an easy way
to move it without needing any external bracing and trying to twist
externally. If they're not symmetric you can possibly get actual
factory dimensions from Steel City.

--

Lew Hodgett[_6_] December 30th 13 09:56 PM
Hmmmm.... table saw cabinet twisted after moving between shops... options?
 

"dpb" wrote:

_NOT_ runout; totally different measurement.

I'll mostly echo Morgans' response but w/ a slightly different
suggestion...

Presuming the bolt locations are symmetric, measuring the diagonals
would be easier to determine the amount off and in which direction.

Then knowing that, put a bolt well into the two locations on the
longer
measurementand use a heavy wire loop and then twisting will shorten
that
dimension. Release and repeat measurement until stays in desired
location; you'll undoubtedly have to go a little extra with the
inevitable spring-back.
snip
--------------------------------------------------------------------
SFWIW, the above describes what is known as a "Spanish Windlass".

Very useful on a boat when a winch isn't available.

Lew

woodchucker[_3_] December 30th 13 11:23 PM
Hmmmm.... table saw cabinet twisted after moving between shops...options?
 
On 12/30/2013 12:45 PM, wrote:
Greetings!

So, after months without my shop due to moving and a need to reinforce some joists to remove interfering lally columns in the basement of my new house, I finally had movers come to get my shop into my new basement.

The movers were cutrate local guys but they said they would bring three people and asked that nothing weigh over 300 lbs. Sure, I can do that, just take the top off my saw and everything else is good. My buddy (a big guy with a strong back) actually carried the saw himself with the motor out but the main granite top on and I assume the top and the motor are similar in weight. In any case, three movers should have been able to easily handle my saw.

I had 96 hours to report any issues with the move... I see a coupla things that are minor damage that I should report, but nothing that amounts to more than a coupla bucks as far as I can tell.

Famous last words... reassembling my 3 hp Steel City hybrid saw, I notice an abrasion on the back side of the saw. Ruh roh raggy. Aligning the slot with the blade, I can only get it within about .050" with all the bolts in. Huh... runout, perhaps? I take the two bolts out on the non-tilt wheel side of the table and attempt to realign it. Now I can easily get .004". Crap. So they twisted the frame of my saw. I should have bought a steel plate and bolted it to the top of my cabinet. But I didn't.

I can get all four bolts in the top through the holes in the saw frame but then the alignment is crap at best.

I am outside the reporting period and will let the mover know but have little expectation that they will do anything about it - and if they did, it would probably involve a great deal of hassle for me, including swapping my motor and trunnions onto a new frame, or some other equally painful experience. And, as I note in #1 below, my best solution involves messing with trunnions anyway so trying to get a new cabinet out of the mover, while appropriate, really doesn't do me much good. And is more painful than all of my options I list below.

Was thinking there were a number of options:

1. Move the trunnions. Since I can get all four bolts in the top, and the misalignment is not runout, but rather that the frame of the saw is twisted, this should be an option. Seems the best solution, but likely the most painful.

2. Redrill some of the holes in the cabinet to accommodate the new geometry. Highly unlikely.

3. Try to whack or twist the saw back into place. This is almost as good as number one, but also, I am not sure really if this can be done without a great deal of sweat and hassle.

4. This one I really kinda like because I am back in the shop today (!), but concerns me some: only use two bolts to attach the granite top to the saw. There is good contact between the top and the cabinet, and with the weight of the top, I really don't foresee issues with vibration.

I really do like #1 and may actually give it a whirl, but not before contacting steel city. Prolly do #4 initially and see how things go in terms of the cutting and the stability of the alignment.

Anyone else have alternate suggestions, please let me know.

TIA,

Peter


So before you go off half cocked. what makes you think your floor is
flat. Mine isn't I have to shim the equipment to get it squared up.

Try that first. Try shimming the cabinet, use standard wedges first.

Moving your trunion should not be a big deal, but might not be necessary.


Good luck.

--
Jeff

[email protected] December 31st 13 03:49 AM
Hmmmm.... table saw cabinet twisted after moving between shops... options?
 
You sir, are a total douche.

Regards,

Peter

Mike Marlow[_2_] December 31st 13 04:07 PM
Hmmmm.... table saw cabinet twisted after moving between shops... options?
 
wrote:
You sir, are a total douche.

Regards,

Peter

If you are going to post to a usenet newsgroup Peter, it is customary to
include the text you are replying to so that your comments have a context.
As it is, (as you can see above...) your comment has no such context.

--

-Mike-



Markem[_2_] December 31st 13 04:13 PM
Hmmmm.... table saw cabinet twisted after moving between shops... options?
 
On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 11:07:48 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:
You sir, are a total douche.

Regards,

Peter

If you are going to post to a usenet newsgroup Peter, it is customary to
include the text you are replying to so that your comments have a context.
As it is, (as you can see above...) your comment has no such context.

Now Mike I think it does have context with regards to Peter.

Mike Marlow[_2_] December 31st 13 04:40 PM
Hmmmm.... table saw cabinet twisted after moving between shops... options?
 
Markem wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 11:07:48 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:
You sir, are a total douche.

Regards,

Peter

If you are going to post to a usenet newsgroup Peter, it is
customary to include the text you are replying to so that your
comments have a context. As it is, (as you can see above...) your
comment has no such context.

Now Mike I think it does have context with regards to Peter.

I think it says a lot about Peter, since I don't think I saw any replies to
his initial post that were out of line - including my own. But - what the
hell do I know...

--

-Mike-



woodchucker[_3_] December 31st 13 08:44 PM
Hmmmm.... table saw cabinet twisted after moving between shops...options?
 
On 12/30/2013 10:49 PM, wrote:
You sir, are a total douche.

Regards,

Peter

Wow Peter, way to go...

Now I feel like you are a scrotal sack of ****...


--
Jeff

Gordon Shumway December 31st 13 11:20 PM
Hmmmm.... table saw cabinet twisted after moving between shops... options?
 
On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 11:40:45 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Markem wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 11:07:48 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:
You sir, are a total douche.

Regards,

Peter

If you are going to post to a usenet newsgroup Peter, it is
customary to include the text you are replying to so that your
comments have a context. As it is, (as you can see above...) your
comment has no such context.

Now Mike I think it does have context with regards to Peter.

I think it says a lot about Peter, since I don't think I saw any replies to
his initial post that were out of line - including my own. But - what the
hell do I know...

I think he just wanted to be told how sorry we are for his misfortune
and that it isn't his fault. Now that I think about it that reminds
me of someone currently vacationing in Hawaii.

Markem[_2_] January 1st 14 12:22 AM
Hmmmm.... table saw cabinet twisted after moving between shops... options?
 
On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 11:40:45 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Markem wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 11:07:48 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:
You sir, are a total douche.

Regards,

Peter

If you are going to post to a usenet newsgroup Peter, it is
customary to include the text you are replying to so that your
comments have a context. As it is, (as you can see above...) your
comment has no such context.

Now Mike I think it does have context with regards to Peter.

I think it says a lot about Peter, since I don't think I saw any replies to
his initial post that were out of line - including my own. But - what the
hell do I know...

What you know is it usenet. ;)

Mark


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