OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 14:05:10 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:12:42 -0500, Leon wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

My guess is that in 10 years or less, the majority of vehicles
manufactured will be electric.
--------------------------------------------------
wrote:

I'm not quite that optimistic, but I can envision it happening
within
the next quarter century. With entrepreneurs like Tesla fully
committed to electric vehicle promotion, it will happen sooner than
later. Add onto that the fact that the Tesla *looks damned good*
IMHO,
the electric car field has nowhere to go except up.
------------------------------------------------------
That 10 year number comes from the industry itself, not me,
I'm just the messenger.

Lew
Well first Lew, you say "your guess" is that in 10 years or less the
"majority" of vehicles will be electric. Now you say this number comes
from the industry.
That industry naturally will make that claim, it's make it or break it
time. That industry needs an enormous infusion of cash from investors to
be able to mass produce a vehicle that will actually perform and go the
distance and be at least equal in amenities as the much much lower price
vehicles available right now with gasoline/diesel engines.

I hope that 10 years is a realistic and achievable time frame but I don't
see the trend growing that fast. It seems to be growing fast because of
all of the attention it is getting but I am still seeing, in Houston, the
vast majority of new vehicles being equipped with the traditional internal
combustion engine. Many more hurdles will have to be over come before the
"majority of new vehicle buyers make the switch.
My bet is that in ten years there will be FEWER electric and hybrid
cars on the market than there are now. Cars won't be smaller or get
much better mileage and barring (even more) government meddling, gas
won't be much more expensive in a decade, either. Two decades, even.

Mercedes, IIRC, suggests they will have a "self-driving car" by the end
of the decade. I expect an increase in mass transit, and fewer cars. A
self-driving car would seem to support various forms of "sharing".

Self-driving cars, or some subset of such, is a definite possibility.
Mass transit, not a chance. No one wants it and there is no money to
pay for it if they did.

Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.

Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

Leon wrote:
On 9/24/2013 4:54 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 9/24/2013 1:05 PM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:12:42 -0500, Leon wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

My guess is that in 10 years or less, the majority of vehicles
manufactured will be electric.
--------------------------------------------------
wrote:

I'm not quite that optimistic, but I can envision it happening
within
the next quarter century. With entrepreneurs like Tesla fully
committed to electric vehicle promotion, it will happen sooner
than
later. Add onto that the fact that the Tesla *looks damned good*
IMHO,
the electric car field has nowhere to go except up.
------------------------------------------------------
That 10 year number comes from the industry itself, not me,
I'm just the messenger.

Lew
Well first Lew, you say "your guess" is that in 10 years or less the
"majority" of vehicles will be electric. Now you say this number
comes
from the industry.
That industry naturally will make that claim, it's make it or
break it
time. That industry needs an enormous infusion of cash from
investors to
be able to mass produce a vehicle that will actually perform and go
the
distance and be at least equal in amenities as the much much lower
price
vehicles available right now with gasoline/diesel engines.

I hope that 10 years is a realistic and achievable time frame but I
don't
see the trend growing that fast. It seems to be growing fast
because of
all of the attention it is getting but I am still seeing, in
Houston,
the
vast majority of new vehicles being equipped with the traditional
internal
combustion engine. Many more hurdles will have to be over come
before the
"majority of new vehicle buyers make the switch.
My bet is that in ten years there will be FEWER electric and hybrid
cars on the market than there are now. Cars won't be smaller or get
much better mileage and barring (even more) government meddling, gas
won't be much more expensive in a decade, either. Two decades, even.

Mercedes, IIRC, suggests they will have a "self-driving car" by the
end
of the decade. I expect an increase in mass transit, and fewer cars. A
self-driving car would seem to support various forms of "sharing".

Not a stretch, GM was playing with this idea some 15~20 years ago with
sensors built into the highway that guided the vehicle. And today
some vehicles will automatically parallel park.





Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.


share a car?? As in leave your vehicle and take some one else's?

Actually, now that I think about it, it's a "pay by the hour" system.
One takes a car from any designated spot, and drops it off at any other
available designated spot. So the advantage is, you don't need to own a
car to use one of these. It is expected to appeal to many of our
conventioneers. My understanding is that it is being built now.

With regard to your concern, hopefully there will be some quality
control! I assume a borrower would be responsible for not leaving
french fries and related items in the car...

I think my concern would be with someone having an accident and the
hassle of filling out paperwork for rental by the hour each time you
rent one.


From the article, I get the impression that you pay a monthly fee, then
just stick your card in, take the keys and drive! Pay by the minute.
I think there will be no paperwork once one is "enrolled". Just bills..lol

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On 9/24/2013 6:21 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 14:05:10 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:12:42 -0500, Leon wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

My guess is that in 10 years or less, the majority of vehicles
manufactured will be electric.
--------------------------------------------------
wrote:

I'm not quite that optimistic, but I can envision it happening
within
the next quarter century. With entrepreneurs like Tesla fully
committed to electric vehicle promotion, it will happen sooner than
later. Add onto that the fact that the Tesla *looks damned good*
IMHO,
the electric car field has nowhere to go except up.
------------------------------------------------------
That 10 year number comes from the industry itself, not me,
I'm just the messenger.

Lew
Well first Lew, you say "your guess" is that in 10 years or less the
"majority" of vehicles will be electric. Now you say this number comes
from the industry.
That industry naturally will make that claim, it's make it or break it
time. That industry needs an enormous infusion of cash from investors to
be able to mass produce a vehicle that will actually perform and go the
distance and be at least equal in amenities as the much much lower price
vehicles available right now with gasoline/diesel engines.

I hope that 10 years is a realistic and achievable time frame but I don't
see the trend growing that fast. It seems to be growing fast because of
all of the attention it is getting but I am still seeing, in Houston, the
vast majority of new vehicles being equipped with the traditional internal
combustion engine. Many more hurdles will have to be over come before the
"majority of new vehicle buyers make the switch.
My bet is that in ten years there will be FEWER electric and hybrid
cars on the market than there are now. Cars won't be smaller or get
much better mileage and barring (even more) government meddling, gas
won't be much more expensive in a decade, either. Two decades, even.

Mercedes, IIRC, suggests they will have a "self-driving car" by the end
of the decade. I expect an increase in mass transit, and fewer cars. A
self-driving car would seem to support various forms of "sharing".

Self-driving cars, or some subset of such, is a definite possibility.
Mass transit, not a chance. No one wants it and there is no money to
pay for it if they did.

Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.

Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?



I'm sure that it was sold with the understanding that the users will pay
very little. The government will be paying the lions share of the
expense. LOL

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 19:11:31 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/24/2013 6:21 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 14:05:10 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:12:42 -0500, Leon wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

My guess is that in 10 years or less, the majority of vehicles
manufactured will be electric.
--------------------------------------------------
wrote:

I'm not quite that optimistic, but I can envision it happening
within
the next quarter century. With entrepreneurs like Tesla fully
committed to electric vehicle promotion, it will happen sooner than
later. Add onto that the fact that the Tesla *looks damned good*
IMHO,
the electric car field has nowhere to go except up.
------------------------------------------------------
That 10 year number comes from the industry itself, not me,
I'm just the messenger.

Lew
Well first Lew, you say "your guess" is that in 10 years or less the
"majority" of vehicles will be electric. Now you say this number comes
from the industry.
That industry naturally will make that claim, it's make it or break it
time. That industry needs an enormous infusion of cash from investors to
be able to mass produce a vehicle that will actually perform and go the
distance and be at least equal in amenities as the much much lower price
vehicles available right now with gasoline/diesel engines.

I hope that 10 years is a realistic and achievable time frame but I don't
see the trend growing that fast. It seems to be growing fast because of
all of the attention it is getting but I am still seeing, in Houston, the
vast majority of new vehicles being equipped with the traditional internal
combustion engine. Many more hurdles will have to be over come before the
"majority of new vehicle buyers make the switch.
My bet is that in ten years there will be FEWER electric and hybrid
cars on the market than there are now. Cars won't be smaller or get
much better mileage and barring (even more) government meddling, gas
won't be much more expensive in a decade, either. Two decades, even.

Mercedes, IIRC, suggests they will have a "self-driving car" by the end
of the decade. I expect an increase in mass transit, and fewer cars. A
self-driving car would seem to support various forms of "sharing".

Self-driving cars, or some subset of such, is a definite possibility.
Mass transit, not a chance. No one wants it and there is no money to
pay for it if they did.

Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.

Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?



I'm sure that it was sold with the understanding that the users will pay
very little. The government will be paying the lions share of the
expense. LOL

Which is why I used the word "cost". ;-)

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On 9/24/2013 2:18 PM, Leon wrote:


Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.


share a car?? As in leave your vehicle and take some one else's?

I would not, maybe you would, be OK with lending my vehicle to a
stranger and I cant begin to fathom the liability issues associated with
this arrangement.

He may be talking about a rental setup like Zip Car where the car is
parked on the street, not at a rental office.

OTOH, it may be a good idea to buy shares in a car. It has been done
with aircraft for years giving you a certain number of hours use. In a
big city it could work for the occasional driver..

I don't lend my car to anyone, even family.

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On 9/24/2013 7:21 PM, wrote:


Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.

Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?


Two possibilities
1. http://www.zipcar.com/
2. Buy shares, just as aircraft owners often do.

Works for the occasional user, not the daily commuter.

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 13:18:24 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
share a car?? As in leave your vehicle and take some one else's?

I would not, maybe you would, be OK with lending my vehicle to a
stranger and I cant begin to fathom the liability issues associated with
this arrangement.

It's already in operation.
http://www.zipcar.com/

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On 9/24/2013 11:36 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 13:18:24 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
share a car?? As in leave your vehicle and take some one else's?

I would not, maybe you would, be OK with lending my vehicle to a
stranger and I cant begin to fathom the liability issues associated with
this arrangement.

It's already in operation.
http://www.zipcar.com/

To satisfy my geek gene weekly I watch the TWIT podcast (This Week In Tech).

I am surprised at the number of participants in the high tech business,
most in their twenties and early thirties, who routinely use services
like Zipcar and Airbnb as a matter of course.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:50:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/24/2013 7:21 PM, wrote:


Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.

Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?


Two possibilities
1. http://www.zipcar.com/
2. Buy shares, just as aircraft owners often do.

If you're an OCCAISIONAL user of the appliance, it sometimes makes
sense to lease it. If the taxpayer gets involved, it makes sense more
often.

Works for the occasional user, not the daily commuter.

That's what it's being sold as here. ...just grab one from the pool
and drive off - not going to work.

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On 9/25/2013 12:32 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:50:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/24/2013 7:21 PM, wrote:


Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.

Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?


Two possibilities
1. http://www.zipcar.com/
2. Buy shares, just as aircraft owners often do.

If you're an OCCAISIONAL user of the appliance, it sometimes makes
sense to lease it. If the taxpayer gets involved, it makes sense more
often.

Works for the occasional user, not the daily commuter.

That's what it's being sold as here. ...just grab one from the pool
and drive off - not going to work.



And apparently you still have to reserve the zipcar.

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 16:22:31 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 12:32 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:50:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/24/2013 7:21 PM, wrote:


Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.

Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?


Two possibilities
1. http://www.zipcar.com/
2. Buy shares, just as aircraft owners often do.

If you're an OCCAISIONAL user of the appliance, it sometimes makes
sense to lease it. If the taxpayer gets involved, it makes sense more
often.

Works for the occasional user, not the daily commuter.

That's what it's being sold as here. ...just grab one from the pool
and drive off - not going to work.



And apparently you still have to reserve the zipcar.

What I *don't* need is a time-share car. ;-)

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On 9/25/2013 7:13 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 16:22:31 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 12:32 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:50:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/24/2013 7:21 PM, wrote:


Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.

Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?


Two possibilities
1. http://www.zipcar.com/
2. Buy shares, just as aircraft owners often do.

If you're an OCCAISIONAL user of the appliance, it sometimes makes
sense to lease it. If the taxpayer gets involved, it makes sense more
often.

Works for the occasional user, not the daily commuter.

That's what it's being sold as here. ...just grab one from the pool
and drive off - not going to work.



And apparently you still have to reserve the zipcar.

What I *don't* need is a time-share car. ;-)



I don't see the advantage to a regular rental car other than not having
to be fill it for the next person.

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On 9/25/2013 9:44 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 9/24/2013 11:36 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 13:18:24 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
share a car?? As in leave your vehicle and take some one else's?

I would not, maybe you would, be OK with lending my vehicle to a
stranger and I cant begin to fathom the liability issues associated with
this arrangement.

It's already in operation.
http://www.zipcar.com/

To satisfy my geek gene weekly I watch the TWIT podcast (This Week In
Tech).

I am surprised at the number of participants in the high tech business,
most in their twenties and early thirties, who routinely use services
like Zipcar and Airbnb as a matter of course.


I just checked, and they have a Toyota pickup truck in their car
"line-up". If they put a stand at Menards and Home Depot, and I'll use it.

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On 9/25/2013 11:30 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/25/2013 7:13 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 16:22:31 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 12:32 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:50:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/24/2013 7:21 PM, wrote:


Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you
can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous
designated
recharge stations.

Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?


Two possibilities
1. http://www.zipcar.com/
2. Buy shares, just as aircraft owners often do.

If you're an OCCAISIONAL user of the appliance, it sometimes makes
sense to lease it. If the taxpayer gets involved, it makes sense more
often.

Works for the occasional user, not the daily commuter.

That's what it's being sold as here. ...just grab one from the pool
and drive off - not going to work.



And apparently you still have to reserve the zipcar.

What I *don't* need is a time-share car. ;-)



I don't see the advantage to a regular rental car other than not having
to be fill it for the next person.

LOCATION (walking distance to schools, hotels, downtown, Home Depot
(maybe), etc.).

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

Leon wrote:

snip 8

Well, I may be a creep but nothing is rising.


--
 GW Ross 

 I didn't fight my way to the top of 
 the food chain to be a vegetarian. 

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

Bill wrote:
On 9/25/2013 11:30 PM, Leon wrote:
On 9/25/2013 7:13 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 16:22:31 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 12:32 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:50:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 9/24/2013 7:21 PM, wrote:


Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you
can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous
designated
recharge stations.

Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?


Two possibilities
1. http://www.zipcar.com/
2. Buy shares, just as aircraft owners often do.

If you're an OCCAISIONAL user of the appliance, it sometimes makes
sense to lease it. If the taxpayer gets involved, it makes sense
more
often.

Works for the occasional user, not the daily commuter.

That's what it's being sold as here. ...just grab one from the pool
and drive off - not going to work.



And apparently you still have to reserve the zipcar.

What I *don't* need is a time-share car. ;-)



I don't see the advantage to a regular rental car other than not having
to be fill it for the next person.

LOCATION (walking distance to schools, hotels, downtown, Home Depot
(maybe), etc.).

It costs about $75 if the car is kept for 24 hours, so a rental would
mostly likely be cheaper.
To a marketing person, it's a totally different product than a rental car.

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:30:20 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 7:13 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 16:22:31 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 12:32 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:50:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/24/2013 7:21 PM, wrote:


Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.

Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?


Two possibilities
1. http://www.zipcar.com/
2. Buy shares, just as aircraft owners often do.

If you're an OCCAISIONAL user of the appliance, it sometimes makes
sense to lease it. If the taxpayer gets involved, it makes sense more
often.

Works for the occasional user, not the daily commuter.

That's what it's being sold as here. ...just grab one from the pool
and drive off - not going to work.



And apparently you still have to reserve the zipcar.

What I *don't* need is a time-share car. ;-)



I don't see the advantage to a regular rental car other than not having
to be fill it for the next person.

Except that you do.

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

Bill wrote in
:


I just checked, and they have a Toyota pickup truck in their car
"line-up". If they put a stand at Menards and Home Depot, and I'll
use it.

Menards will rent you a Ford pickup (at least around here) for something
like $20 for 75 minutes. Good enough to get a refrigerator home, but
something loose and bulky like landscape stone might take longer to load
and unload.

I haven't needed to rent one yet, but just the plates for a year in IL will
cost you 5 times the rental cost of the truck. Add insurance and you can
rent the truck 10-20 times before it's cheaper than owning one.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

Puckdropper wrote:
Bill wrote in
:

I just checked, and they have a Toyota pickup truck in their car
"line-up". If they put a stand at Menards and Home Depot, and I'll
use it.
Menards will rent you a Ford pickup (at least around here) for something
like $20 for 75 minutes. Good enough to get a refrigerator home, but
something loose and bulky like landscape stone might take longer to load
and unload.

I haven't needed to rent one yet, but just the plates for a year in IL will
cost you 5 times the rental cost of the truck. Add insurance and you can
rent the truck 10-20 times before it's cheaper than owning one.

Puckdropper

Yes, Home Depot used to have a deal where if you spent over $100 you
could have an hour of truck rental for free. But when I last asked
about it no one there knew what I was talking about.

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On 26 Sep 2013 22:00:09 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Bill wrote in
:


I just checked, and they have a Toyota pickup truck in their car
"line-up". If they put a stand at Menards and Home Depot, and I'll
use it.

Menards will rent you a Ford pickup (at least around here) for something
like $20 for 75 minutes. Good enough to get a refrigerator home, but
something loose and bulky like landscape stone might take longer to load
and unload.

Lowes doesn't charge for appliance delivery. For building materials,
they also have trucks (bigger than a pickemup) for about the same $20.
I haven't needed to rent one yet, but just the plates for a year in
IL will
cost you 5 times the rental cost of the truck. Add insurance and you can
rent the truck 10-20 times before it's cheaper than owning one.

Not as often as I use my truck. ;-) ...and I need a vehicle anyway.

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On 9/26/2013 4:03 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:30:20 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 7:13 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 16:22:31 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 12:32 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:50:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/24/2013 7:21 PM, wrote:


Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.

Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?


Two possibilities
1. http://www.zipcar.com/
2. Buy shares, just as aircraft owners often do.

If you're an OCCAISIONAL user of the appliance, it sometimes makes
sense to lease it. If the taxpayer gets involved, it makes sense more
often.

Works for the occasional user, not the daily commuter.

That's what it's being sold as here. ...just grab one from the pool
and drive off - not going to work.



And apparently you still have to reserve the zipcar.

What I *don't* need is a time-share car. ;-)



I don't see the advantage to a regular rental car other than not having
to be fill it for the next person.

Except that you do.


You only have to fill it, according to the web site, if the tank goes
below 1/4. You do not pay for gas separately, it is included in the
hourly price of renting along with insurance.

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:46:50 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/26/2013 4:03 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:30:20 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 7:13 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 16:22:31 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 12:32 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:50:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/24/2013 7:21 PM, wrote:


Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.

Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?


Two possibilities
1. http://www.zipcar.com/
2. Buy shares, just as aircraft owners often do.

If you're an OCCAISIONAL user of the appliance, it sometimes makes
sense to lease it. If the taxpayer gets involved, it makes sense more
often.

Works for the occasional user, not the daily commuter.

That's what it's being sold as here. ...just grab one from the pool
and drive off - not going to work.



And apparently you still have to reserve the zipcar.

What I *don't* need is a time-share car. ;-)



I don't see the advantage to a regular rental car other than not having
to be fill it for the next person.

Except that you do.


You only have to fill it, according to the web site, if the tank goes
below 1/4. You do not pay for gas separately, it is included in the
hourly price of renting along with insurance.

Ah, I missed that. I thought it was a standard rental. I rented a
car a couple of weeks ago (will do it again next week). I had to
put[*] 2-1/2 gallons of gas in it, at $4.09/gallon (Lew should love
that data point ;).
[*] Boss had to pay ;-)

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

wrote:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:46:50 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/26/2013 4:03 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:30:20 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 7:13 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 16:22:31 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 12:32 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:50:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/24/2013 7:21 PM, wrote:

Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.
Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?

Two possibilities
1. http://www.zipcar.com/
2. Buy shares, just as aircraft owners often do.
If you're an OCCAISIONAL user of the appliance, it sometimes makes
sense to lease it. If the taxpayer gets involved, it makes sense more
often.

Works for the occasional user, not the daily commuter.
That's what it's being sold as here. ...just grab one from the pool
and drive off - not going to work.


And apparently you still have to reserve the zipcar.
What I *don't* need is a time-share car. ;-)


I don't see the advantage to a regular rental car other than not having
to be fill it for the next person.
Except that you do.

You only have to fill it, according to the web site, if the tank goes
below 1/4. You do not pay for gas separately, it is included in the
hourly price of renting along with insurance.
Ah, I missed that. I thought it was a standard rental. I rented a
car a couple of weeks ago (will do it again next week). I had to
put[*] 2-1/2 gallons of gas in it, at $4.09/gallon (Lew should love
that data point ;).

[*] Boss had to pay ;-)

At least in Indianapolis, these are supposed to be mostly electric cars.
$35 millionto set it up, so there should be at least something to see.

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:46:50 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/26/2013 4:03 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:30:20 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 7:13 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 16:22:31 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 12:32 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:50:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/24/2013 7:21 PM, wrote:

Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.
Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?

Two possibilities
1. http://www.zipcar.com/
2. Buy shares, just as aircraft owners often do.
If you're an OCCAISIONAL user of the appliance, it sometimes makes
sense to lease it. If the taxpayer gets involved, it makes sense more
often.

Works for the occasional user, not the daily commuter.
That's what it's being sold as here. ...just grab one from the pool
and drive off - not going to work.


And apparently you still have to reserve the zipcar.
What I *don't* need is a time-share car. ;-)


I don't see the advantage to a regular rental car other than not having
to be fill it for the next person.
Except that you do.

You only have to fill it, according to the web site, if the tank goes
below 1/4. You do not pay for gas separately, it is included in the
hourly price of renting along with insurance.
Ah, I missed that. I thought it was a standard rental. I rented a
car a couple of weeks ago (will do it again next week). I had to
put[*] 2-1/2 gallons of gas in it, at $4.09/gallon (Lew should love
that data point ;).

[*] Boss had to pay ;-)

At least in Indianapolis, these are supposed to be mostly electric cars.
$35 millionto set it up, so there should be at least something to see.

Well if these vehicles were gasoline, there should be about 2300 units. But
then you need the specialized charging stations in tons of locations.

On another note, Houston added rail for mass transit 10+ years ago, it was
all political and a hot bed for controversy.
For the first year there was a vehicle collision with the train, on
average, every day. It was always the other guys fault, I think that is
because the train is always in the right, right or wrong. Mysteriously the
accidents are no longer breaking news and you very seldom hear of an
accident these days. I suspect that this is because the daily occourance
became boring to report on or the city maybe suggested that not so much
attention be paid to the problem.

An interesting note, one of the news sources determined that the rail
system cost so much money that it would have been less expensive to have
purchased a Ferrari for each rider.

I wonder how many vehicles $35,000,000 puts in service and or if Ferrari's
would be less expensive.
I wonder how many

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

wrote:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:46:50 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/26/2013 4:03 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:30:20 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 7:13 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 16:22:31 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 12:32 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:50:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/24/2013 7:21 PM, wrote:


Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.

Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?


Two possibilities
1. http://www.zipcar.com/
2. Buy shares, just as aircraft owners often do.

If you're an OCCAISIONAL user of the appliance, it sometimes makes
sense to lease it. If the taxpayer gets involved, it makes sense more
often.

Works for the occasional user, not the daily commuter.

That's what it's being sold as here. ...just grab one from the pool
and drive off - not going to work.



And apparently you still have to reserve the zipcar.

What I *don't* need is a time-share car. ;-)



I don't see the advantage to a regular rental car other than not having
to be fill it for the next person.

Except that you do.


You only have to fill it, according to the web site, if the tank goes
below 1/4. You do not pay for gas separately, it is included in the
hourly price of renting along with insurance.

Ah, I missed that. I thought it was a standard rental. I rented a
car a couple of weeks ago (will do it again next week). I had to
put[*] 2-1/2 gallons of gas in it, at $4.09/gallon (Lew should love
that data point ;).

[*] Boss had to pay ;-)

I just noticed that Enterprise Leasing is offering basically the same type
rental in Houston. I have never noticed that ad in the past.

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

Leon wrote:
Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:46:50 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/26/2013 4:03 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:30:20 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 7:13 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 16:22:31 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 12:32 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:50:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/24/2013 7:21 PM, wrote:

Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.
Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?

Two possibilities
1. http://www.zipcar.com/
2. Buy shares, just as aircraft owners often do.
If you're an OCCAISIONAL user of the appliance, it sometimes makes
sense to lease it. If the taxpayer gets involved, it makes sense more
often.

Works for the occasional user, not the daily commuter.
That's what it's being sold as here. ...just grab one from the pool
and drive off - not going to work.

And apparently you still have to reserve the zipcar.
What I *don't* need is a time-share car. ;-)

I don't see the advantage to a regular rental car other than not having
to be fill it for the next person.
Except that you do.

You only have to fill it, according to the web site, if the tank goes
below 1/4. You do not pay for gas separately, it is included in the
hourly price of renting along with insurance.
Ah, I missed that. I thought it was a standard rental. I rented a
car a couple of weeks ago (will do it again next week). I had to
put[*] 2-1/2 gallons of gas in it, at $4.09/gallon (Lew should love
that data point ;).

[*] Boss had to pay ;-)
At least in Indianapolis, these are supposed to be mostly electric cars.
$35 millionto set it up, so there should be at least something to see.
Well if these vehicles were gasoline, there should be about 2300 units. But
then you need the specialized charging stations in tons of locations.

On another note, Houston added rail for mass transit 10+ years ago, it was
all political and a hot bed for controversy.
For the first year there was a vehicle collision with the train, on
average, every day. It was always the other guys fault, I think that is
because the train is always in the right, right or wrong. Mysteriously the
accidents are no longer breaking news and you very seldom hear of an
accident these days. I suspect that this is because the daily occourance
became boring to report on or the city maybe suggested that not so much
attention be paid to the problem.

An interesting note, one of the news sources determined that the rail
system cost so much money that it would have been less expensive to have
purchased a Ferrari for each rider.

I wonder how many vehicles $35,000,000 puts in service and or if Ferrari's
would be less expensive.
I wonder how many

As you mentioned, the $35 million includes setting up charging stations,
etc.
It seem that it's the taxi-cab business that should be most concerned.

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

Somebody wrote:


Ah, I missed that. I thought it was a standard rental. I rented
a
car a couple of weeks ago (will do it again next week). I had to
put[*] 2-1/2 gallons of gas in it, at $4.09/gallon (Lew should
love
that data point ;).

[*] Boss had to pay ;-)
---------------------------------------------------------
Hertz just announced that in the major markets they will be offering
a Tesla for $500/day.

Assume that includes the $0.00/gal refuel charge.

Lew

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
Somebody wrote:


Ah, I missed that. I thought it was a standard rental. I rented
a
car a couple of weeks ago (will do it again next week). I had to
put[*] 2-1/2 gallons of gas in it, at $4.09/gallon (Lew should
love
that data point ;).

[*] Boss had to pay ;-)
---------------------------------------------------------
Hertz just announced that in the major markets they will be offering
a Tesla for $500/day.

Assume that includes the $0.00/gal refuel charge.

Lew

He'll it should include a day at the Spa!

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 23:25:57 -0500, Leon wrote:

Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:46:50 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/26/2013 4:03 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:30:20 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 7:13 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 16:22:31 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 12:32 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:50:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/24/2013 7:21 PM, wrote:

Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.
Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?

Two possibilities
1. http://www.zipcar.com/
2. Buy shares, just as aircraft owners often do.
If you're an OCCAISIONAL user of the appliance, it sometimes makes
sense to lease it. If the taxpayer gets involved, it makes sense more
often.

Works for the occasional user, not the daily commuter.
That's what it's being sold as here. ...just grab one from the pool
and drive off - not going to work.


And apparently you still have to reserve the zipcar.
What I *don't* need is a time-share car. ;-)


I don't see the advantage to a regular rental car other than not having
to be fill it for the next person.
Except that you do.

You only have to fill it, according to the web site, if the tank goes
below 1/4. You do not pay for gas separately, it is included in the
hourly price of renting along with insurance.
Ah, I missed that. I thought it was a standard rental. I rented a
car a couple of weeks ago (will do it again next week). I had to
put[*] 2-1/2 gallons of gas in it, at $4.09/gallon (Lew should love
that data point ;).

[*] Boss had to pay ;-)

At least in Indianapolis, these are supposed to be mostly electric cars.
$35 millionto set it up, so there should be at least something to see.

Well if these vehicles were gasoline, there should be about 2300 units. But
then you need the specialized charging stations in tons of locations.

On another note, Houston added rail for mass transit 10+ years ago, it was
all political and a hot bed for controversy.
For the first year there was a vehicle collision with the train, on
average, every day. It was always the other guys fault, I think that is
because the train is always in the right, right or wrong. Mysteriously the
accidents are no longer breaking news and you very seldom hear of an
accident these days. I suspect that this is because the daily occourance
became boring to report on or the city maybe suggested that not so much
attention be paid to the problem.

An interesting note, one of the news sources determined that the rail
system cost so much money that it would have been less expensive to have
purchased a Ferrari for each rider.

I wonder how many vehicles $35,000,000 puts in service and or if Ferrari's
would be less expensive.
I wonder how many

But it's for the children!

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 22:08:13 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

Somebody wrote:


Ah, I missed that. I thought it was a standard rental. I rented
a
car a couple of weeks ago (will do it again next week). I had to
put[*] 2-1/2 gallons of gas in it, at $4.09/gallon (Lew should
love
that data point ;).

[*] Boss had to pay ;-)
---------------------------------------------------------
Hertz just announced that in the major markets they will be offering
a Tesla for $500/day.

Oh, wonderful. I can get a standard sized car for about 1/20th that
and drive it as far as I want.

Assume that includes the $0.00/gal refuel charges.

Does it have to be returned fully charged?

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 23:25:57 -0500, Leon wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:46:50 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/26/2013 4:03 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:30:20 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 7:13 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 16:22:31 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/25/2013 12:32 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 20:50:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/24/2013 7:21 PM, wrote:


Already a system is currently going up in Indianapolis, where you can
"share" an electric car--dropping it off at one of numerous designated
recharge stations.

Oh, good grief, that's dumb! What's the cost of that?


Two possibilities
1. http://www.zipcar.com/
2. Buy shares, just as aircraft owners often do.

If you're an OCCAISIONAL user of the appliance, it sometimes makes
sense to lease it. If the taxpayer gets involved, it makes sense more
often.

Works for the occasional user, not the daily commuter.

That's what it's being sold as here. ...just grab one from the pool
and drive off - not going to work.



And apparently you still have to reserve the zipcar.

What I *don't* need is a time-share car. ;-)



I don't see the advantage to a regular rental car other than not having
to be fill it for the next person.

Except that you do.


You only have to fill it, according to the web site, if the tank goes
below 1/4. You do not pay for gas separately, it is included in the
hourly price of renting along with insurance.

Ah, I missed that. I thought it was a standard rental. I rented a
car a couple of weeks ago (will do it again next week). I had to
put[*] 2-1/2 gallons of gas in it, at $4.09/gallon (Lew should love
that data point ;).

[*] Boss had to pay ;-)

I just noticed that Enterprise Leasing is offering basically the same type
rental in Houston. I have never noticed that ad in the past.

I guess there were rental options. I could have bought a whole tank
of gas for $3.50/gallon or paid for them to fill it at $5.00 per
gallon. Neither made any sense (and are specifically discouraged by
accounting).

OT Yes the creep keeps rising and you cannot stop it
 

wrote in message ...

On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 14:05:10 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:12:42 -0500, Leon wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

My guess is that in 10 years or less, the majority of vehicles
manufactured will be electric.
--------------------------------------------------
wrote:

I'm not quite that optimistic, but I can envision it happening
within
the next quarter century. With entrepreneurs like Tesla fully
committed to electric vehicle promotion, it will happen sooner than
later. Add onto that the fact that the Tesla *looks damned good*
IMHO,
the electric car field has nowhere to go except up.
------------------------------------------------------
That 10 year number comes from the industry itself, not me,
I'm just the messenger.

Lew
Well first Lew, you say "your guess" is that in 10 years or less the
"majority" of vehicles will be electric. Now you say this number comes
from the industry.
That industry naturally will make that claim, it's make it or break it
time. That industry needs an enormous infusion of cash from investors
to
be able to mass produce a vehicle that will actually perform and go the
distance and be at least equal in amenities as the much much lower price
vehicles available right now with gasoline/diesel engines.

I hope that 10 years is a realistic and achievable time frame but I
don't
see the trend growing that fast. It seems to be growing fast because
of
all of the attention it is getting but I am still seeing, in Houston,
the
vast majority of new vehicles being equipped with the traditional
internal
combustion engine. Many more hurdles will have to be over come before
the
"majority of new vehicle buyers make the switch.
My bet is that in ten years there will be FEWER electric and hybrid
cars on the market than there are now. Cars won't be smaller or get
much better mileage and barring (even more) government meddling, gas
won't be much more expensive in a decade, either. Two decades, even.

Mercedes, IIRC, suggests they will have a "self-driving car" by the end
of the decade. I expect an increase in mass transit, and fewer cars. A
self-driving car would seem to support various forms of "sharing".

Self-driving cars, or some subset of such, is a definite possibility.
Mass transit, not a chance. No one wants it and there is no money to
pay for it if they did.
================================================== ======================
Seattle mass transit, they say, has record ridership but according to the
politicos, they are going to have to raise taxes on everyone to keep it
running. Now that's an efficient system. The plan is to raise vehicle
license rate so those of us that don't use the public system get to pay for
it.