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Default Set Screws vs. Cap Screws

I have a commercial project coming up that requires me to build a
display table for a couple of scale model airplanes, one is the Antonov
124. The models actual wing span is approximately 56", nose to tail is
about 53". The airplane has a single 8mm mounting nut and is elevated
from a platform by that mounting nut.

I need to mount the airplane so that it will not spin while on display,
that is one of the current problems.

I have the details figured out, I think. There will be an 8mm threaded
stud coming from the airplane to an elevated post and will do down into
the post 3~4". I plan on embedding a 1" long set screw rod coupling
1/2" into the mounting post. The 8mm rod will go through that coupling
and down another 3~4" into the post.

Finally the question. A single 10/32 set screw, in the coupling, will
tighten into the 8mm threaded shaft. Since this set screw is going to
be used relatively often I have fears of a hex wrench eventually
rounding out. My thought is to use a hex head cap screw instead, with a
larger sized hex head.

Will the cap screw hold as well as a set screw or will a snug set screw
hold as well as a cap screw that is tightened much tighter?

The job of the set screw is only to prevent the rod from rotating, the
bottom of the hole will maintain proper shaft depth.

Thoughts?
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Default Set Screws vs. Cap Screws


"Leon" wrote:

I have a commercial project coming up that requires me to build a
display table for a couple of scale model airplanes, one is the
Antonov 124. The models actual wing span is approximately 56", nose
to tail is about 53". The airplane has a single 8mm mounting nut and
is elevated from a platform by that mounting nut.

I need to mount the airplane so that it will not spin while on
display, that is one of the current problems.

I have the details figured out, I think. There will be an 8mm
threaded stud coming from the airplane to an elevated post and will
do down into the post 3~4". I plan on embedding a 1" long set screw
rod coupling 1/2" into the mounting post. The 8mm rod will go
through that coupling and down another 3~4" into the post.

Finally the question. A single 10/32 set screw, in the coupling,
will tighten into the 8mm threaded shaft. Since this set screw is
going to be used relatively often I have fears of a hex wrench
eventually rounding out. My thought is to use a hex head cap screw
instead, with a larger sized hex head.

Will the cap screw hold as well as a set screw or will a snug set
screw hold as well as a cap screw that is tightened much tighter?

The job of the set screw is only to prevent the rod from rotating,
the bottom of the hole will maintain proper shaft depth.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Set screw is a failure waiting to happen IMHO.

How about an 8mm lock nut that locks the 8mm stud on the plane
to the mounting post below?

Lew




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Default Set Screws vs. Cap Screws

For whichever set screw you use, file flat a part of the 8mm threaded rod where the set screw will contact. Re-die the rod, if need be, if the filing messes up the threads on the rod, for screwing it onto whatever. With a flattened side on the rod, either set screw would not have to be tightened so tight.

Sonny
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Default Set Screws vs. Cap Screws

On 11/2/2012 4:05 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Leon" wrote:

I have a commercial project coming up that requires me to build a
display table for a couple of scale model airplanes, one is the
Antonov 124. The models actual wing span is approximately 56", nose
to tail is about 53". The airplane has a single 8mm mounting nut and
is elevated from a platform by that mounting nut.

I need to mount the airplane so that it will not spin while on
display, that is one of the current problems.

I have the details figured out, I think. There will be an 8mm
threaded stud coming from the airplane to an elevated post and will
do down into the post 3~4". I plan on embedding a 1" long set screw
rod coupling 1/2" into the mounting post. The 8mm rod will go
through that coupling and down another 3~4" into the post.

Finally the question. A single 10/32 set screw, in the coupling,
will tighten into the 8mm threaded shaft. Since this set screw is
going to be used relatively often I have fears of a hex wrench
eventually rounding out. My thought is to use a hex head cap screw
instead, with a larger sized hex head.

Will the cap screw hold as well as a set screw or will a snug set
screw hold as well as a cap screw that is tightened much tighter?

The job of the set screw is only to prevent the rod from rotating,
the bottom of the hole will maintain proper shaft depth.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Set screw is a failure waiting to happen IMHO.

How about an 8mm lock nut that locks the 8mm stud on the plane
to the mounting post below?

Lew





The airplane is mounted at a 30 degree angle. I thought about using a
nut in the post but that would mean you would have to hold the 4'
square airplane at an angle and spin it 16~20 times to mount and again
to unmount. Actually I believe that it would be best if the airplane
would spin if forced, which convention folk will do. I just don't want
it to spin on its own or given a lite tough. Essentially the method you
are describing will be used at the airplane to stud union.

Setting the airplane stud in the mounting hole quickly will be a great
advantage.




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Default Set Screws vs. Cap Screws



"Leon" wrote in message
news
I have a commercial project coming up that requires me to build a
display table for a couple of scale model airplanes, one is the Antonov
124. The models actual wing span is approximately 56", nose to tail is
about 53". The airplane has a single 8mm mounting nut and is elevated
from a platform by that mounting nut.

I need to mount the airplane so that it will not spin while on display,
that is one of the current problems.

I have the details figured out, I think. There will be an 8mm threaded
stud coming from the airplane to an elevated post and will do down into
the post 3~4". I plan on embedding a 1" long set screw rod coupling
1/2" into the mounting post. The 8mm rod will go through that coupling
and down another 3~4" into the post.

Finally the question. A single 10/32 set screw, in the coupling, will
tighten into the 8mm threaded shaft. Since this set screw is going to
be used relatively often I have fears of a hex wrench eventually
rounding out. My thought is to use a hex head cap screw instead, with a
larger sized hex head.

Will the cap screw hold as well as a set screw or will a snug set screw
hold as well as a cap screw that is tightened much tighter?

The job of the set screw is only to prevent the rod from rotating, the
bottom of the hole will maintain proper shaft depth.

Thoughts?


Drill a slight shallow hole in the 8mm shaft for the set screw to enter.
Problem solved. WW



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Default Set Screws vs. Cap Screws

On 11/2/2012 4:20 PM, Sonny wrote:
For whichever set screw you use, file flat a part of the 8mm threaded rod where the set screw will contact. Re-die the rod, if need be, if the filing messes up the threads on the rod, for screwing it onto whatever. With a flattened side on the rod, either set screw would not have to be tightened so tight.

Sonny



Thought of that too and the threads will not matter at that point.
Filing would help but I personally will not be setting this display up
over and over and the depth of the mounting stud "in the airplane
itself" will be ever changing, which would change the location of the
flat spot on the rod.

Now if only I could find a key way slotted threaded rod.....
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...ream/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...ream/lightbox/
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Default Set Screws vs. Cap Screws

On 11/2/2012 3:53 PM, Leon wrote:
....

hold as well as a cap screw that is tightened much tighter?

The job of the set screw is only to prevent the rod from rotating, the
bottom of the hole will maintain proper shaft depth.

Thoughts?


Agree would be best to have a flat but probably won't matter too
much...how much does the beastie weigh?

I'd suggest a regular hex set screw--they've got the cup in the base to
grab the target already plus they're hard. If need be, ship the allen
wrench w/ it in a little cubby spot...

--

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Default Set Screws vs. Cap Screws

On 11/2/2012 5:04 PM, WW wrote:


"Leon" wrote in message
news
I have a commercial project coming up that requires me to build a
display table for a couple of scale model airplanes, one is the Antonov
124. The models actual wing span is approximately 56", nose to tail is
about 53". The airplane has a single 8mm mounting nut and is elevated
from a platform by that mounting nut.

I need to mount the airplane so that it will not spin while on display,
that is one of the current problems.

I have the details figured out, I think. There will be an 8mm threaded
stud coming from the airplane to an elevated post and will do down into
the post 3~4". I plan on embedding a 1" long set screw rod coupling
1/2" into the mounting post. The 8mm rod will go through that coupling
and down another 3~4" into the post.

Finally the question. A single 10/32 set screw, in the coupling, will
tighten into the 8mm threaded shaft. Since this set screw is going to
be used relatively often I have fears of a hex wrench eventually
rounding out. My thought is to use a hex head cap screw instead, with a
larger sized hex head.

Will the cap screw hold as well as a set screw or will a snug set screw
hold as well as a cap screw that is tightened much tighter?

The job of the set screw is only to prevent the rod from rotating, the
bottom of the hole will maintain proper shaft depth.

Thoughts?


Drill a slight shallow hole in the 8mm shaft for the set screw to enter.
Problem solved. WW


Darn, I though you had it!. I will not be setting this display up but
others will, over and over. They will be attaching the threaded stud to
the airplane first and the stud would have to be clocked perfectly for
the hole to align properly.






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Default Set Screws vs. Cap Screws

The screw type won't matter. Either will hold. A soft screw is actually
better than a hard screw, it will deform where it sets in and grab
better. Some of the better screws made to lock in have brass tips to not
deform the shafts, but bite in on the piece.

Can you make a small cradle for the belly where the screw will go, so
that there is more support and that will help prevent it from spinning?
If just mounted on that one screw point, it will definitely put lots of
pressure on the fuse, and could eventually crack that area. A plane
that size weighs a good amount, and you don't know how it was built.
Ask about a small cradle to spread the load.



On 11/2/2012 4:53 PM, Leon wrote:
I have a commercial project coming up that requires me to build a
display table for a couple of scale model airplanes, one is the Antonov
124. The models actual wing span is approximately 56", nose to tail is
about 53". The airplane has a single 8mm mounting nut and is elevated
from a platform by that mounting nut.

I need to mount the airplane so that it will not spin while on display,
that is one of the current problems.

I have the details figured out, I think. There will be an 8mm threaded
stud coming from the airplane to an elevated post and will do down into
the post 3~4". I plan on embedding a 1" long set screw rod coupling
1/2" into the mounting post. The 8mm rod will go through that coupling
and down another 3~4" into the post.

Finally the question. A single 10/32 set screw, in the coupling, will
tighten into the 8mm threaded shaft. Since this set screw is going to
be used relatively often I have fears of a hex wrench eventually
rounding out. My thought is to use a hex head cap screw instead, with a
larger sized hex head.

Will the cap screw hold as well as a set screw or will a snug set screw
hold as well as a cap screw that is tightened much tighter?

The job of the set screw is only to prevent the rod from rotating, the
bottom of the hole will maintain proper shaft depth.

Thoughts?



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Default Set Screws vs. Cap Screws

On 11/2/2012 5:15 PM, dpb wrote:
On 11/2/2012 3:53 PM, Leon wrote:
...

hold as well as a cap screw that is tightened much tighter?

The job of the set screw is only to prevent the rod from rotating, the
bottom of the hole will maintain proper shaft depth.

Thoughts?


Agree would be best to have a flat but probably won't matter too
much...how much does the beastie weigh?


In display mode about 20~25 lbs for the big one.





I'd suggest a regular hex set screw--they've got the cup in the base to
grab the target already plus they're hard. If need be, ship the allen
wrench w/ it in a little cubby spot...

--


Yeah, actually there seem to be about a dozen tips for set screws,
Pointed, round, ball,

http://www.mcmaster.com/#set-screws/=jzs18u

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Default Set Screws vs. Cap Screws

On 11/2/2012 5:20 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
The screw type won't matter. Either will hold. A soft screw is actually
better than a hard screw, it will deform where it sets in and grab
better. Some of the better screws made to lock in have brass tips to not
deform the shafts, but bite in on the piece.


I am thinking a cap screw, and a hard SS shaft. I would rather the
clamping screw deform than the shaft. If the shaft threads deform it
may be difficult to pull it out of the hole. And i am going to try to
sell the customer on there being give in the event some one grabs a wing
and gives it a push. Better for the plane to turn than something crack.
Or I could grind the threads off on that end to prevent the above
mention possibility.







Can you make a small cradle for the belly where the screw will go, so
that there is more support and that will help prevent it from spinning?
If just mounted on that one screw point, it will definitely put lots of
pressure on the fuse, and could eventually crack that area. A plane
that size weighs a good amount, and you don't know how it was built.
Ask about a small cradle to spread the load.


Thought of that too. Way too much detail for that, there is landing
gear in that area and the customer wants a clear view. The airplane has
been displayed multiple times, the single mount is adequate. They just
want to to tilt and not spin now.

I think I am going to talk him into going with a snug fit so that there
will be some give in case something hits a wing and there needs to be
give to prevent damage.








On 11/2/2012 4:53 PM, Leon wrote:
I have a commercial project coming up that requires me to build a
display table for a couple of scale model airplanes, one is the Antonov
124. The models actual wing span is approximately 56", nose to tail is
about 53". The airplane has a single 8mm mounting nut and is elevated
from a platform by that mounting nut.

I need to mount the airplane so that it will not spin while on display,
that is one of the current problems.

I have the details figured out, I think. There will be an 8mm threaded
stud coming from the airplane to an elevated post and will do down into
the post 3~4". I plan on embedding a 1" long set screw rod coupling
1/2" into the mounting post. The 8mm rod will go through that coupling
and down another 3~4" into the post.

Finally the question. A single 10/32 set screw, in the coupling, will
tighten into the 8mm threaded shaft. Since this set screw is going to
be used relatively often I have fears of a hex wrench eventually
rounding out. My thought is to use a hex head cap screw instead, with a
larger sized hex head.

Will the cap screw hold as well as a set screw or will a snug set screw
hold as well as a cap screw that is tightened much tighter?

The job of the set screw is only to prevent the rod from rotating, the
bottom of the hole will maintain proper shaft depth.

Thoughts?


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Default Set Screws vs. Cap Screws

Can the 8mm threaded rod be bent very easily? If so, bend 1" of the end to 90° and imbed that end into the mounting post. Rip the mounting post if half, carve an appropriate channel for the bent rod, insert, and glue the mounting post back together.

Sonny
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On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:53:31 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

I have a commercial project coming up that requires me to build a
display table for a couple of scale model airplanes, one is the Antonov
124. The models actual wing span is approximately 56", nose to tail is
about 53". The airplane has a single 8mm mounting nut and is elevated
from a platform by that mounting nut.

I need to mount the airplane so that it will not spin while on display,
that is one of the current problems.

I have the details figured out, I think. There will be an 8mm threaded
stud coming from the airplane to an elevated post and will do down into
the post 3~4". I plan on embedding a 1" long set screw rod coupling
1/2" into the mounting post. The 8mm rod will go through that coupling
and down another 3~4" into the post.

Finally the question. A single 10/32 set screw, in the coupling, will
tighten into the 8mm threaded shaft. Since this set screw is going to
be used relatively often I have fears of a hex wrench eventually
rounding out. My thought is to use a hex head cap screw instead, with a
larger sized hex head.

Will the cap screw hold as well as a set screw or will a snug set screw
hold as well as a cap screw that is tightened much tighter?

The job of the set screw is only to prevent the rod from rotating, the
bottom of the hole will maintain proper shaft depth.

Thoughts?


My experience with small set screws that are regularly loosened and
tighten has let's say been problematic. I would be looking for a way
to simply be able to pin it. If you thought about it you could
probably device a wedged M&T mount with the metal hardware glued in.

Mike M
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On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 17:15:11 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...ream/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...ream/lightbox/


To do the angles you might have to get Swingman to drag out the
multirouter. Throw in your contrasting woods and I'd like it.

Mike M


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Default Set Screws vs. Cap Screws

Would a Rigid Coupling help? Has 4 set screws and accommodates sizes 6mm to 50mm rods. http://catalog.climaxmetal.com/

Sonny
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On Friday, November 2, 2012 5:43:50 PM UTC-6, Sonny wrote:
Would a Rigid Coupling help? Has 4 set screws and accommodates sizes 6mm to 50mm rods. http://catalog.climaxmetal.com/ Sonny


Available with or without keyways, also.

Sonny
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On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:53:31 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

I have a commercial project coming up that requires me to build a
display table for a couple of scale model airplanes, one is the Antonov
124. The models actual wing span is approximately 56", nose to tail is
about 53". The airplane has a single 8mm mounting nut and is elevated
from a platform by that mounting nut.

I need to mount the airplane so that it will not spin while on display,
that is one of the current problems.

I have the details figured out, I think. There will be an 8mm threaded
stud coming from the airplane to an elevated post and will do down into
the post 3~4". I plan on embedding a 1" long set screw rod coupling
1/2" into the mounting post. The 8mm rod will go through that coupling
and down another 3~4" into the post.

Finally the question. A single 10/32 set screw, in the coupling, will
tighten into the 8mm threaded shaft. Since this set screw is going to
be used relatively often I have fears of a hex wrench eventually
rounding out. My thought is to use a hex head cap screw instead, with a
larger sized hex head.

Will the cap screw hold as well as a set screw or will a snug set screw
hold as well as a cap screw that is tightened much tighter?

The job of the set screw is only to prevent the rod from rotating, the
bottom of the hole will maintain proper shaft depth.

Thoughts?

The set screw has a hardened tip with a special profile that the cap
screw will NOT have.. I'd put a flat on the rod where the "setscrew"
is supposed to contact - either way.
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On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 14:20:33 -0700 (PDT), Sonny
wrote:

For whichever set screw you use, file flat a part of the 8mm threaded rod where the set screw will contact. Re-die the rod, if need be, if the filing messes up the threads on the rod, for screwing it onto whatever. With a flattened side on the rod, either set screw would not have to be tightened so tight.

Sonny

DON'T use threaded rod. Use a good alloy steel "shaft" threaded to
fit the airplane, and a close drop fit into the stand - with a flat
ground on the shaft to take the set-screw.
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On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 17:06:39 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 11/2/2012 4:20 PM, Sonny wrote:
For whichever set screw you use, file flat a part of the 8mm threaded rod where the set screw will contact. Re-die the rod, if need be, if the filing messes up the threads on the rod, for screwing it onto whatever. With a flattened side on the rod, either set screw would not have to be tightened so tight.

Sonny



Thought of that too and the threads will not matter at that point.
Filing would help but I personally will not be setting this display up
over and over and the depth of the mounting stud "in the airplane
itself" will be ever changing, which would change the location of the
flat spot on the rod.

Now if only I could find a key way slotted threaded rod.....


Make sure that the depth into the airplane will always be the same, or
simply tighten the jam nut at the airplane AFTER the set screw is
installed.



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In article ,
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
I have a commercial project coming up that requires me to build a
display table for a couple of scale model airplanes, one is the Antonov
124. The models actual wing span is approximately 56", nose to tail is
about 53". The airplane has a single 8mm mounting nut and is elevated
from a platform by that mounting nut.

I need to mount the airplane so that it will not spin while on display,
that is one of the current problems.

I have the details figured out, I think. There will be an 8mm threaded
stud coming from the airplane to an elevated post and will do down into
the post 3~4". I plan on embedding a 1" long set screw rod coupling
1/2" into the mounting post. The 8mm rod will go through that coupling
and down another 3~4" into the post.

Finally the question. A single 10/32 set screw, in the coupling, will
tighten into the 8mm threaded shaft. Since this set screw is going to
be used relatively often I have fears of a hex wrench eventually
rounding out. My thought is to use a hex head cap screw instead, with a
larger sized hex head.

Will the cap screw hold as well as a set screw or will a snug set screw
hold as well as a cap screw that is tightened much tighter?

The job of the set screw is only to prevent the rod from rotating, the
bottom of the hole will maintain proper shaft depth.

Thoughts?


Have you considered drilling a through hole through the coupling and rod
and using a cotter pin or hitch pin?


--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org
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"Leon" wrote:

The airplane is mounted at a 30 degree angle. I thought about using
a nut in the post but that would mean you would have to hold the 4'
square airplane at an angle and spin it 16~20 times to mount and
again to unmount. Actually I believe that it would be best if the
airplane would spin if forced, which convention folk will do. I
just don't want it to spin on its own or given a lite tough.
Essentially the method you are describing will be used at the
airplane to stud union.

Setting the airplane stud in the mounting hole quickly will be a
great advantage.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Took a look at pics, Haven't yet figured out how the pooch is going to
help.

Is he the job superG?

The following is based on you having access to metal working and
welding.

Picture a pipe flange. It will give you an idea of what I'm about to
describe.

Start with a 1" dia x 3" long CR1018 CRS and drill a 1/2" dia x 2"
deep hole.

From the opposite end, drill and tap 8MM threaded hole, 1-1/8" deep.

This eliminates drilling an tapping the full 3".

Cut a 3" dia x 1/4" thick piece from CR1018 CRS.

Drill 12, 8 MM clearance holes, equally spaced on a 2-1/2" dia bolt
circle.

Drill a 1" clearance thru hole on centerline of 3" dia plate.

Position 1" dia x 3" long piece in flat plate with 8 MM thread up and
projecting
3/4" above plate, then weld.

Using white oak or similar hard wood, cut a 3" dia x 3" long piece,
then drill
a 1" dia thru hole. (Parallel to end grain)

Drill only one 8MM clearance hole x 1-1/2" deep on a 2-1/2" dia bolt
circle.

Mount this white oak piece in table at a 30 degree angle as req'd.

Thread 8 MM lock nut and weldment onto plane stud as req'd.

Drop weldment into white oak piece and rotate until hole in weldment
lines up with hole in white oak piece, then insert 8MM pin to prevent
rotation.

Line up plane to final position and lock in place with lock nut.

Grab a beer and greet the world with a **** eating grin.

Have fun.

BTW, if you can't find CR1018 CRS (Cold rolled), use CR 1020 HRS(Hot
rolled)

Lew



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Default Set Screws vs. Cap Screws

On 11/2/2012 5:27 PM, Leon wrote:
On 11/2/2012 5:15 PM, dpb wrote:

....

Agree would be best to have a flat but probably won't matter too
much...how much does the beastie weigh?


In display mode about 20~25 lbs for the big one.

I'd suggest a regular hex set screw--they've got the cup in the base to
grab the target already plus they're hard. If need be, ship the allen
wrench w/ it in a little cubby spot...

....

Yeah, actually there seem to be about a dozen tips for set screws,
Pointed, round, ball,

....

Yes, the pointed, round, ball work best w/ a matching reset, the cup w/
the little toothies will bite into your threads iff'en you don't want
the flat or they ignore it.

I came to me this morning -- there's model-sizes of square and/or hex or
octagonal telescoping tubing that would provide a specific orientation...

--
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On 11/2/2012 3:53 PM, Leon wrote:
I have a commercial project coming up that requires me to build a
display table for a couple of scale model airplanes, one is the Antonov
124. The models actual wing span is approximately 56", nose to tail is
about 53". The airplane has a single 8mm mounting nut and is elevated
from a platform by that mounting nut.

I need to mount the airplane so that it will not spin while on display,
that is one of the current problems.

I have the details figured out, I think. There will be an 8mm threaded
stud coming from the airplane to an elevated post and will do down into
the post 3~4". I plan on embedding a 1" long set screw rod coupling
1/2" into the mounting post. The 8mm rod will go through that coupling
and down another 3~4" into the post.

Finally the question. A single 10/32 set screw, in the coupling, will
tighten into the 8mm threaded shaft. Since this set screw is going to
be used relatively often I have fears of a hex wrench eventually
rounding out. My thought is to use a hex head cap screw instead, with a
larger sized hex head.

Will the cap screw hold as well as a set screw or will a snug set screw
hold as well as a cap screw that is tightened much tighter?

The job of the set screw is only to prevent the rod from rotating, the
bottom of the hole will maintain proper shaft depth.

Thoughts?

I would not use either as they require a separate tool which beg to be
forgotten or lost. I would use a simple knob like this:
http://www.reidsupply.com/products/k...s/lobed-knobs/

or if you want to get a bit fancier, one of these:
http://www.carrlane.com/catalog/index.cfm/28025071F0B221118070C1C513E111D081B0006280B1713050 245221E0107070F1A3C3B285352415B5B

--


___________________________________

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remove the seven
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Default Set Screws vs. Cap Screws

On 11/2/2012 6:43 PM, Sonny wrote:
Would a Rigid Coupling help? Has 4 set screws and accommodates sizes 6mm to 50mm rods. http://catalog.climaxmetal.com/

Sonny



This is what I was think of using.


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On 11/2/2012 6:56 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:53:31 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

I have a commercial project coming up that requires me to build a
display table for a couple of scale model airplanes, one is the Antonov
124. The models actual wing span is approximately 56", nose to tail is
about 53". The airplane has a single 8mm mounting nut and is elevated
from a platform by that mounting nut.

I need to mount the airplane so that it will not spin while on display,
that is one of the current problems.

I have the details figured out, I think. There will be an 8mm threaded
stud coming from the airplane to an elevated post and will do down into
the post 3~4". I plan on embedding a 1" long set screw rod coupling
1/2" into the mounting post. The 8mm rod will go through that coupling
and down another 3~4" into the post.

Finally the question. A single 10/32 set screw, in the coupling, will
tighten into the 8mm threaded shaft. Since this set screw is going to
be used relatively often I have fears of a hex wrench eventually
rounding out. My thought is to use a hex head cap screw instead, with a
larger sized hex head.

Will the cap screw hold as well as a set screw or will a snug set screw
hold as well as a cap screw that is tightened much tighter?

The job of the set screw is only to prevent the rod from rotating, the
bottom of the hole will maintain proper shaft depth.

Thoughts?

The set screw has a hardened tip with a special profile that the cap
screw will NOT have.. I'd put a flat on the rod where the "setscrew"
is supposed to contact - either way.



The flat will not always be in the same position.
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Default Set Screws vs. Cap Screws

On 11/2/2012 7:55 PM, Larry W wrote:
In article ,
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
I have a commercial project coming up that requires me to build a
display table for a couple of scale model airplanes, one is the Antonov
124. The models actual wing span is approximately 56", nose to tail is
about 53". The airplane has a single 8mm mounting nut and is elevated
from a platform by that mounting nut.

I need to mount the airplane so that it will not spin while on display,
that is one of the current problems.

I have the details figured out, I think. There will be an 8mm threaded
stud coming from the airplane to an elevated post and will do down into
the post 3~4". I plan on embedding a 1" long set screw rod coupling
1/2" into the mounting post. The 8mm rod will go through that coupling
and down another 3~4" into the post.

Finally the question. A single 10/32 set screw, in the coupling, will
tighten into the 8mm threaded shaft. Since this set screw is going to
be used relatively often I have fears of a hex wrench eventually
rounding out. My thought is to use a hex head cap screw instead, with a
larger sized hex head.

Will the cap screw hold as well as a set screw or will a snug set screw
hold as well as a cap screw that is tightened much tighter?

The job of the set screw is only to prevent the rod from rotating, the
bottom of the hole will maintain proper shaft depth.

Thoughts?


Have you considered drilling a through hole through the coupling and rod
and using a cotter pin or hitch pin?



Yes but the hle will not always be in the same position. Customer wants
to be able to position to liking and then make stationary.
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Default Probable final solution

OK, Thank you all for your suggestions!

Swingman has suggested an entirely different approach, to probably a bit
more costly, and it seems to address all the issues of mounting to the
airplane and with a few modification of my own address being able to
quickly mount the airplanes and mounts onto the display posts.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...ream/lightbox/



Thanks again!
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Default Set Screws vs. Cap Screws

On 11/3/2012 9:11 AM, Leon wrote:
On 11/2/2012 6:43 PM, Sonny wrote:
Would a Rigid Coupling help? Has 4 set screws and accommodates sizes
6mm to 50mm rods. http://catalog.climaxmetal.com/

Sonny



This is what I was think of using.




Brother....


This is what I "was" thinking of using...

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/1174/=k046is
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So here's my take on this
If you make it able to rotate, you might do more damage on the far wing,
or smaller plane if the larger plane swings into the smaller mount or plane.

But that is not my choice it's yours or your customer's.

I still think you would be better with a belly cradle (smallish) and use
the stud to secure it to the belly cradle. you might actually use a
piece of metal in the cradle to allow it to be tilted based on their
preference , so the metal plate is rounded (conforming to the bottom of
the cradle) and has an elongated slot across the cradle (not lengthwise)
allowing the model to be leaned at their preference. Tightening the nut
would tighten the position the model is locked at.

If you do decide to continue with the shaft and allow movement. Put an
arm on the shaft and limiters to prevent the model from being able to
swing if hit. Allow it to just remove the initial energy, but not damage
the other model or itself.


Wish I were good at sketchup. Wish I could draw... nice work you and
Swingy do w/Sketchup.

Now on to more important things.. Nice dog, but whats the cash of money
doing on the table....??? Are you bragging???

On 11/2/2012 6:15 PM, Leon wrote:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...ream/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...ream/lightbox/



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Default Set Screws vs. Cap Screws

Those conformable soft tip screws are very good for your purpose.
They will hold well, but like others say, use the length of the hole and
shaft to control basic setup height. I would consider a stop collar with
the conformable soft tip if you want other heights. The collar would
probably already have a screw designed for a flat.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#shaft-stop-collars/=k055cp
http://www.mcmaster.com/#shaft-stop-collars/=k055p2


On 11/2/2012 6:27 PM, Leon wrote:
On 11/2/2012 5:15 PM, dpb wrote:
On 11/2/2012 3:53 PM, Leon wrote:
...

hold as well as a cap screw that is tightened much tighter?

The job of the set screw is only to prevent the rod from rotating, the
bottom of the hole will maintain proper shaft depth.

Thoughts?


Agree would be best to have a flat but probably won't matter too
much...how much does the beastie weigh?


In display mode about 20~25 lbs for the big one.





I'd suggest a regular hex set screw--they've got the cup in the base to
grab the target already plus they're hard. If need be, ship the allen
wrench w/ it in a little cubby spot...

--


Yeah, actually there seem to be about a dozen tips for set screws,
Pointed, round, ball,

http://www.mcmaster.com/#set-screws/=jzs18u

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On 11/3/2012 10:13 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
So here's my take on this
If you make it able to rotate, you might do more damage on the far wing,
or smaller plane if the larger plane swings into the smaller mount or
plane.

But that is not my choice it's yours or your customer's.

I still think you would be better with a belly cradle (smallish) and use
the stud to secure it to the belly cradle. you might actually use a
piece of metal in the cradle to allow it to be tilted based on their
preference , so the metal plate is rounded (conforming to the bottom of
the cradle) and has an elongated slot across the cradle (not lengthwise)
allowing the model to be leaned at their preference. Tightening the nut
would tighten the position the model is locked at.

If you do decide to continue with the shaft and allow movement. Put an
arm on the shaft and limiters to prevent the model from being able to
swing if hit. Allow it to just remove the initial energy, but not damage
the other model or itself.


I under stand your concerns. These airplanes are not exactly fragile
but my biggest concern is twisting the nut out of the bottom of the
airplane. They do break down, the wings and landing gear come off, and
are shipped from show to show in very nice shipping containers about the
size of a small refrigerator. The airplanes already have stands that
they are displayed on but not at the angle that the customer wants. He
wants more tilt to take up less display floor space. Any way I think a
rubber washer between the airplane and the jam nut might allow enough
give should one of the wings take a bump.




Wish I were good at sketchup. Wish I could draw... nice work you and
Swingy do w/Sketchup.


thanks! I probably spend 1/3 of my time designing, 2/3's building. A
lot easier and less expensive to get it right on a drawing.



Now on to more important things.. Nice dog,

The one sucking the pillow? I swear she would smoke cigarettes if they
were around.

but whats the cash of money
doing on the table....??? Are you bragging???


Payment for a kitchen job about 8 years ago, neighbor pricing. ;~(



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On 11/3/2012 11:05 AM, Leon wrote:
but whats the cash of money
doing on the table....??? Are you bragging???


Payment for a kitchen job about 8 years ago, neighbor pricing. ;~(


Yabbut, Leon .... you're not supposed to leave it on the table for all
that time ...

Shhheeeeesh!

LOL

--
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On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 09:26:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...ream/lightbox/


If those dimensions are correct, I'd be terrified of someone brushing
against one of those wings as they were walking by and ripping a plane
from its foundations.

My preference would be to organize a strong enough mounting bracket
and mount the planes vertically or sideways higher up on a wall.
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On 11/3/2012 2:38 PM, Dave wrote:
On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 09:26:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...ream/lightbox/


If those dimensions are correct, I'd be terrified of someone brushing
against one of those wings as they were walking by and ripping a plane
from its foundations.

My preference would be to organize a strong enough mounting bracket
and mount the planes vertically or sideways higher up on a wall.


My guess is that anybody smart enough to be in the airplane business
knows how to protect one, even if it is just a model ... like maybe
having displays behind roped off areas, you reckon?

Almost a guarantee, eh?

--
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Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop


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"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
OK, Thank you all for your suggestions!

Swingman has suggested an entirely different approach, to probably a bit
more costly, and it seems to address all the issues of mounting to the
airplane and with a few modification of my own address being able to
quickly mount the airplanes and mounts onto the display posts.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...ream/lightbox/

Some potential problem with that approach Leon.

There isn't room for 176 dominos! And there is no contrasting woods. And
where will you put the 36 drawers? ;-)



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On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 15:17:39 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 11/3/2012 2:38 PM, Dave wrote:
On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 09:26:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...ream/lightbox/


If those dimensions are correct, I'd be terrified of someone brushing
against one of those wings as they were walking by and ripping a plane
from its foundations.

My preference would be to organize a strong enough mounting bracket
and mount the planes vertically or sideways higher up on a wall.


My guess is that anybody smart enough to be in the airplane business
knows how to protect one, even if it is just a model ... like maybe
having displays behind roped off areas, you reckon?

Almost a guarantee, eh?


Not in today's world. Besides, the people designing planes and the
people in charge of the displays are bound to be different. Mr. Murphy
is in charge of that little facet, isn't he?

--
The great thing about getting older is that
you don't lose all the other ages you've been.
-- Madeleine L'Engle
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Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 15:17:39 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 11/3/2012 2:38 PM, Dave wrote:
On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 09:26:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...ream/lightbox/

If those dimensions are correct, I'd be terrified of someone brushing
against one of those wings as they were walking by and ripping a plane
from its foundations.

My preference would be to organize a strong enough mounting bracket
and mount the planes vertically or sideways higher up on a wall.


My guess is that anybody smart enough to be in the airplane business
knows how to protect one, even if it is just a model ... like maybe
having displays behind roped off areas, you reckon?

Almost a guarantee, eh?


Not in today's world. Besides, the people designing planes and the
people in charge of the displays are bound to be different. Mr. Murphy
is in charge of that little facet, isn't he?


Not necessarily your concern. Assuming/guessing who's in charge of what
notwithstanding, what is a fact is that when you design-to-build to
someone's very specific, and apparently in this case, commercial
specifications, your preference about how it is ultimately used don't
necessarily mean **** .... unfortunate or not.

--
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you would think. I have been to a number of shows. Most are high and out
of the way, but anytime one is low like that, it's there for most to
touch. I guess it depends on the venue.

On 11/3/2012 4:17 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/3/2012 2:38 PM, Dave wrote:
On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 09:26:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...ream/lightbox/


If those dimensions are correct, I'd be terrified of someone brushing
against one of those wings as they were walking by and ripping a plane
from its foundations.

My preference would be to organize a strong enough mounting bracket
and mount the planes vertically or sideways higher up on a wall.


My guess is that anybody smart enough to be in the airplane business
knows how to protect one, even if it is just a model ... like maybe
having displays behind roped off areas, you reckon?

Almost a guarantee, eh?

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On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 16:15:17 -0500, Swingman wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 15:17:39 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 11/3/2012 2:38 PM, Dave wrote:
On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 09:26:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...ream/lightbox/

If those dimensions are correct, I'd be terrified of someone brushing
against one of those wings as they were walking by and ripping a plane
from its foundations.

My preference would be to organize a strong enough mounting bracket
and mount the planes vertically or sideways higher up on a wall.

My guess is that anybody smart enough to be in the airplane business
knows how to protect one, even if it is just a model ... like maybe
having displays behind roped off areas, you reckon?

Almost a guarantee, eh?


Not in today's world. Besides, the people designing planes and the
people in charge of the displays are bound to be different. Mr. Murphy
is in charge of that little facet, isn't he?


Not necessarily your concern. Assuming/guessing who's in charge of what
notwithstanding, what is a fact is that when you design-to-build to
someone's very specific, and apparently in this case, commercial
specifications, your preference about how it is ultimately used don't
necessarily mean **** .... unfortunate or not.


Nope, not our (and probably not Leon's) concern at all. But a good
vendor of components attempts to pass on potentially good info to the
client in case he hasn't thought of it. One or two quick questions, if
they're amenable to them, and from there, it's up the client. Give
them what they think they want, then go back & fix it later, right?

Along a similar but different line, I've walked away from building or
rebuilding a couple projects because the client didn't care about
safety or code (not that I know much about them, either.) I used the
ploy "That method is not up to building code requirements and my
insurance company won't allow me to do that."

--
The great thing about getting older is that
you don't lose all the other ages you've been.
-- Madeleine L'Engle
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