In article
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 4/17/2012 8:15 AM, Drew Lawson wrote:

I have a drywall job on the to-do (to-hire-for) list. Part of the
procrastination is knowing that it will get dust everywhere. (The
rest is budget and I haven't finished the framing yet.) If I heard
someone talking about a drywall job that was surprisingly low in
dust, I'd be writing down the contractor's name.



http://www.sanderfordrywall.com/

Cool. And if I am choosing between a contractor with something
like that and one without, it will certainly have weight in the
decision.

--
Drew Lawson | Pass the tea and sympathy
| for he good old days are dead
| Let's raise a toast to those
| who best survived the life they led

On 4/17/2012 11:48 AM, Leon wrote:


BUT for remodeling it would have to pay for itself in clean up time.


Just for the record, the current crew rate here is $35/labor hour (four
people $140/hour) for "top to bottom" cleanup after a remodel.

Current, and as quoted, for an upcoming cleanup next week on a remodel
I'm finishing up as we speak.

It wouldn't take an undue amount at that rate for a contractor to pay
for one of those in fewer hours of cleanup over a couple of jobs.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

"Swingman" wrote...
On 4/17/2012 11:48 AM, Leon wrote:


BUT for remodeling it would have to pay for itself in clean up time.


Just for the record, the current crew rate here is $35/labor hour (four
people $140/hour) for "top to bottom" cleanup after a remodel.

Current, and as quoted, for an upcoming cleanup next week on a remodel I'm
finishing up as we speak.

It wouldn't take an undue amount at that rate for a contractor to pay for
one of those in fewer hours of cleanup over a couple of jobs.

Again, as you pointed out earlier, Festool is a SYSTEM!!

The whole package may be kind of expensive. But they have the whole
package. The drywall sander itself, which I have never seen one like that
before. The abrasives, which as a Festool product is not only quality, but
lasts a long time. And, of course, the "dust extractor".

It seems to me that most folks who would buy such a system probably already
have the dust extractor. Dust free sanding would seem to be a super
marketing point. Not that many folks can say that. And having a sander or
two could easily create some more biz as well. Perhaps some touch up on the
cabinets or whatever.

And like real estate agents, who are clueless, contractors have no idea how
much stress they create for their clients. Reduce the stress levels, the
clients are happier. And since most folks charge by the job, it means you
get out of there sooner. Client is happier. Contractor make more money.
Seems pretty straightforward to me.

And, again, the best form of marketing is referrals. You make a good
impression, the client talks about it friends and neighbors. Reducing the
time on the job and the dust levels could be considered a legitimate
marketing expense. There is more than one way to justify the cost from a
business perspective.

"Lee Michaels" leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net wrote:

Again, as you pointed out earlier, Festool is a SYSTEM!!

And like real estate agents, who are clueless, contractors have no idea
how much stress they create for their clients. Reduce the stress levels,
the clients are happier.

Absolutely ... but not all.

I have actually bought many a client a copy of Tracy Kidder's "House" ....
And without doubt saved a few marriages by doing so. AAMOF, I always
introduce the book in the initial meeting with clients contemplating
building a home, or doing a major remodel.
--
www.ewoodshop.com

On 4/18/2012 11:22 AM, Leon wrote:


And by golly you have cannot see ever using either and have not used
either but know that the equipment is bulky and heavy.

Here we go again., The lack of experience or knowledge about something
does not matter..

Was that in english?

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Steve Barker wrote:
On 4/18/2012 11:22 AM, Leon wrote:


And by golly you have cannot see ever using either and have not used
either but know that the equipment is bulky and heavy.

Here we go again., The lack of experience or knowledge about something
does not matter..

Was that in english?


If you remove the first "have" it reads good--I mean well.

On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 10:48:01 -0500, Steve Barker
the pc is cheaper. Hell, FIVE PC's are probably cheaper. I can't see
using either brand. bulky heavy joke of a piece of equipment.

Did you by any chance, have a look at one either online or in person?
With the belt support, you can use it to do ceilings and higher up
walls.

Of course, I'm quite sure you'd prefer the aches and pains of hand
sanding a ceiling.

On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 15:26:47 -0500, Steve Barker
Here we go again., The lack of experience or knowledge about something
does not matter..
Was that in english?

I don't know about English, but I do know about displayed ignorance
bolstered by a measure of arrogance thrown in for good measure.

Dave writes:
On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 15:26:47 -0500, Steve Barker
Here we go again., The lack of experience or knowledge about something
does not matter..
Was that in english?

I don't know about English, but I do know about displayed ignorance
bolstered by a measure of arrogance thrown in for good measure.

Not just know, but seemingly exemplify.

On 4/18/2012 6:36 PM, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 10:48:01 -0500, Steve Barker
the pc is cheaper. Hell, FIVE PC's are probably cheaper. I can't see
using either brand. bulky heavy joke of a piece of equipment.

Did you by any chance, have a look at one either online or in person?
With the belt support, you can use it to do ceilings and higher up
walls.

Of course, I'm quite sure you'd prefer the aches and pains of hand
sanding a ceiling.

no i don't relish the thought of sanding ceilings. But i do a pretty
fair job of taping, and i do knock down on them, and I don't have to do
them often.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 4/18/2012 4:46 PM, Bill wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:
On 4/18/2012 11:22 AM, Leon wrote:


And by golly you have cannot see ever using either and have not used
either but know that the equipment is bulky and heavy.

Here we go again., The lack of experience or knowledge about something
does not matter..

Was that in english?


If you remove the first "have" it reads good--I mean well.


yes, it's amazing how one misplaced word can screw up an entire thought.
Thanks.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 4/17/2012 12:38 PM, Leon wrote:
On 4/17/2012 9:03 AM, Jack wrote:
On 4/16/2012 6:48 PM, Leon wrote:
Snip

So, while I think Festools are quality, I also think they are over
priced. You don't, so ergo an opening for a lively debate. I enjoy the
debate or I would be not be in it.

Rest assured that if you ever do decide to try out a Festool you have 30
days to take it back if it did not live up to your expectations both in
performance and value.

I doubt any Festool would not live up to my expectations, just like I
doubt the Rolls pu would not be good enough for me:-). The only
disparaging remarks I made about them is they are super expensive, and
they are, and the green color is god awful. Color is a joke, who cares
and it is completely personal and in the eye of the beholder.

Oddly I almost took my Festool drill back...

I've looked at, and pulled the trigger on the drill, nice piece and you
can feel the quality. The start up was different, I noticed that
immediately. I would have to get used to the design, but would
personally have a hard time justifying the expense. I'm a tool guy
though, I love tools and would like to have, (not pay for), any Festool.
The vacuum that I pick on is the last Festool I'd like to own. It's a
damned vacuum, any half decent vac is good enough for me. NOTHING I do
requires a high priced shop vacuum.

The sander you use raises my interest, particularly when you say you
almost enjoy sanding with it... I recognize hyperbole when I see it, so
so far have resisted. I still wish my son would have bought me one for
xmas instead of the Ipad.

On another note maybe they know something I don't. The drill comes with
a Torx/star drive bit and I used that bit on 3" deck screws last week.
If I did not already have 2~3 thousand square drive screw already I
would immediately switch to Torx exclusively.

I like plain old Phillips. I've use Torx and square drive, they work
OK, but so does a Phillips. I like Phillips because everyone in the US
has a Phillips driver, housewives, school teachers, ballet dancers and
wood workers.

IMHO Torx is about as much better than square drive as square drive is
better than Phillips.

I agree with that but the difference to me is not enough to sacrifice
common compatibility. The only heads I truly dislike are of course
slotted ones of yesteryear. They should be illegal.

The chair I'm sitting in now has hex drive screws holding it together.
They come loose on occasion and if they were Phillips, I have a driver
in my knife, and one in my pencil holder that would tighten them,
instead, I have to go to my shop, find the right size hex wrench to do a
simple task.

When I replaced the power window actuator in the wife's jeep, the door
panel came off with 3 screws, 2 you could see were Phillips, the one
recessed in a small hole you could not see was a Torx, #25. Had I not
known that up front, I would have went nuts trying to get that screw
out. (thank you internet) I think the MF's at Chrysler did that ONLY to
F*** off guys like me that would rather spend 1/2 hour and $75 fixing it
themselves instead of taking it to the dealer and spending $450 to have
someone else do it. The actuator itself cost $260 at the dealers, $75 on
the net. Exact same piece, I know, I replaced the sucker.

I also think the 25 cent plastic gear that breaks over and over again on
jeep power windows, and cannot be replaced, is done on purpose. a 50
cent steel or aluminum one would last forever. There are internet web
sites dedicated to that specific problem, so they know how f*** up the
design is. I called them about as well. One guy even makes an aluminum
replacement gear on his cnc machine you can buy for $35 but he says you
pretty much need to replace it before it breaks.

Have a good day Jack!

You too Leon, keep up the good work.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 4/19/2012 8:46 AM, Jack wrote:
On 4/17/2012 12:38 PM, Leon wrote:
On 4/17/2012 9:03 AM, Jack wrote:
On 4/16/2012 6:48 PM, Leon wrote:
Snip
Snip


The sander you use raises my interest, particularly when you say you
almost enjoy sanding with it... I recognize hyperbole when I see it, so
so far have resisted. I still wish my son would have bought me one for
xmas instead of the Ipad.

If you are referencing the Rotex, yeah that is a great sander. With the
aggressive mode and "Crystal" paper it can just about keep up with a
belt sander. or have the finesse of a finish sander in RO mode



On another note maybe they know something I don't. The drill comes with
a Torx/star drive bit and I used that bit on 3" deck screws last week.
If I did not already have 2~3 thousand square drive screw already I
would immediately switch to Torx exclusively.

I like plain old Phillips. I've use Torx and square drive, they work OK,
but so does a Phillips. I like Phillips because everyone in the US has a
Phillips driver, housewives, school teachers, ballet dancers and wood
workers.

Well this is where I might sound selfish but I don't care if some one
else cannot remove one of my screws. I hate caming out, iot drives me
up the wall. I would never make is as a dry wall installer. LOL

BUT!!! McFeeley's and many of the deck screws offer combo head screws
which you can use Philips head and square drive in. I do try to buy
those when I order.



IMHO Torx is about as much better than square drive as square drive is
better than Phillips.

I agree with that but the difference to me is not enough to sacrifice
common compatibility. The only heads I truly dislike are of course
slotted ones of yesteryear. They should be illegal.

Yeah and they still make those kind of screws. ;~(



The chair I'm sitting in now has hex drive screws holding it together.
They come loose on occasion and if they were Phillips, I have a driver
in my knife, and one in my pencil holder that would tighten them,
instead, I have to go to my shop, find the right size hex wrench to do a
simple task.

Oh noooooooooooo! LOL



When I replaced the power window actuator in the wife's jeep, the door
panel came off with 3 screws, 2 you could see were Phillips, the one
recessed in a small hole you could not see was a Torx, #25. Had I not
known that up front, I would have went nuts trying to get that screw
out. (thank you internet) I think the MF's at Chrysler did that ONLY to
F*** off guys like me that would rather spend 1/2 hour and $75 fixing it
themselves instead of taking it to the dealer and spending $450 to have
someone else do it. The actuator itself cost $260 at the dealers, $75 on
the net. Exact same piece, I know, I replaced the sucker.

Strange that there is still a mix being used. I recall the Torx screws
being introduced on GM vehicles in 1975.. The Sealed Beam retainer used
Torx in place of Philips. The Philips were notorious for rusting so
badly that you could hardly get them out. The Torx was a welcome
improvement.


I also think the 25 cent plastic gear that breaks over and over again on
jeep power windows, and cannot be replaced, is done on purpose. a 50
cent steel or aluminum one would last forever.

Absolutely! I worked with Gm products for 17 years. Their blower
motors, alternators, and AC compressors were a staple item in any
dealership. The old Axial compressors that GM used for many many years
were rebuildable in the shop. The radial 4 cylinder units were not.


There are internet web
sites dedicated to that specific problem, so they know how f*** up the
design is. I called them about as well. One guy even makes an aluminum
replacement gear on his cnc machine you can buy for $35 but he says you
pretty much need to replace it before it breaks.

On 4/19/2012 8:14 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 4/18/2012 4:46 PM, Bill wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:
On 4/18/2012 11:22 AM, Leon wrote:


And by golly you have cannot see ever using either and have not used
either but know that the equipment is bulky and heavy.

Here we go again., The lack of experience or knowledge about something
does not matter..

Was that in english?


If you remove the first "have" it reads good--I mean well.


yes, it's amazing how one misplaced word can screw up an entire thought.
Thanks.


Stick around long enough Steve and you will learn my code. LOL