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#81
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On 4/13/2012 3:18 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/13/2012 2:53 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: Leon wrote: Yeah, considering relatively no one has a basement in the south, where else would you run the plumbing? ;~) That is so funny. For those of us in the frost belt, we cannot conceive of a house without a basement - or at least a crawl space (a cheap alternative that raises at least one eyebrow...) under a home. Hell - it ain't a home without a basement. Where the hell do you guys do your reloading? Can't put an ammo bench out in the garage - it gets all dirty'd up from painting cars! Where do you put the pool table? The wife's sewing room? Ya just can't really have a home without a basement. Even in Texas! I'll give you a dime for every basement in the Texas if you'll give me a penny for everyone in the "frost belt". They're not unheard of, but rarer than unicorn poop on a roof. Occasionally someone (usually from the NE) with more money than sense, will get a code variance at huge cost and risk and actually build one ... in the trade we call them what they will soon be ... "indoor swimming pools". We call those "root cellars", not basements. |
#82
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On 4/13/2012 2:42 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
I just bought what Home Depot had (Sharkbite). They did go together just as advertised, and they are indeed leak proof, so no complaint on that end. But - they don't make a rigid run. The line in and the line out have quite a bit of play in them so the entire run is somewhat floppy. Probably will never leak, but it will always be floppy unless you put in some additional hangers. For a quick fix - I use them. For something more permanant - I sweat a joint. What do you guys think about this apparatus: http://www.garrettwade.com/copper-pi...ol/p/04D01.02/ I'm reasonably adept at sweating joints, but there have been some times when this thing would have come in handy, assuming it works as advertised. -- Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes. To reply, eat the taco. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/ |
#83
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On 4/13/2012 2:18 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:
I have never had problems with pipes freezing in our house, apparently my neighbour has, although I have seen her walking around *in* her house with her winter coat on for hours. Hummmm ... does your wife know you're watching, and "for hours"? g,d,&r -- www.eWoodShop.com Last update: 4/15/2010 KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) http://gplus.to/eWoodShop |
#84
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On 4/13/12 5:26 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/13/2012 2:18 PM, FrozenNorth wrote: I have never had problems with pipes freezing in our house, apparently my neighbour has, although I have seen her walking around *in* her house with her winter coat on for hours. Hummmm ... does your wife know you're watching, and "for hours"? g,d,&r Just a casual walk through the kitchen, neighbour is a teacher, she marks papers in her kitchen, under a 25W light bulb (or there about, really dim light), my wife is much better looking. :-) -- Froz... The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance. |
#86
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On 4/13/12 1:18 PM, wrote:
I thought the clips were aluminum or steel. Are they tinned copper, or are yours different from what I see around here? All copper. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#87
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On 4/13/2012 5:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Hey, don't look now, but I think there are some kids on your lawn! :-p +1 while wondering whether Canadian humo(u)r is sufficiently akin for that to register?) -- www.eWoodShop.com Last update: 4/15/2010 KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) http://gplus.to/eWoodShop |
#88
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
"Swingman" wrote in message ... On 4/13/2012 7:12 AM, Dave wrote: On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 07:33:16 -0400, "J. Clarke" The rings are copper, they should be at least as resistant to mouse pee as copper pipe, and there's a lot less area exposed to mouse pee. Don't know about mouse pee, but I've been thinking that the relatively soft outer shell of PEX would be more apt to be chewed on than copper pipe. As it turns out, rodent damage is one of the few drawbacks of using PEX. Maximum effective pest control is an _absolute requirement_ for anyone contemplating using the product. ================================================== ===================== I have never had a problem with rodents around here. My five member feline hit squad makes sure of that. |
#89
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Shear strength of screws
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#90
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 14:18:09 -0400, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 07:33:16 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote: In article , says... On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:57:59 -0400, "m II" wrote: Did my house in PEX but I will never use those sharkbite fittings. Too expensive and I don't trust them. The pinch ring fittings work fabulous and never seen one leak in four houses, all done by amateur labour. As long as you use good pinch rings and the proper tool. My one reservation with the rings is how long will they last, and what happens if one corrodes in the wall? (say a mouse ****es on it, or some other chemical reaction weakens the clamp material) The rings are copper, they should be at least as resistant to mouse pee as copper pipe, and there's a lot less area exposed to mouse pee. ----------- "Mike Marlow" wrote in message .. . Ugh! I just can't warm to those. I've used them and I realize their value, but I just cannot get over the movement of the joint with them. I thought the clips were aluminum or steel. Are they tinned copper, or are yours different from what I see around here? There are two types of "permanent" PEX fasteners. The one preferred for house plumbing is a copper ring that requires a fairly expensive tool to compress the ring smoothly around the pipe. The other, apparently preferred for lawn sprinkler systems, uses a stainless ring with an "ear" which is squeezed by a less expensive crimping tool - it leaves the crimped "ear" sticking out from the ring. (Perhaps the copper ring is the preferred technique, but won't stand up to burial, so the stainless crimp is accepted for that - just my guess...) -- Peter Bennett, VE7CEI peterbb (at) telus.net GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca |
#91
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 13:53:30 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 4/13/2012 1:20 PM, wrote: On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 07:22:27 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 4/12/2012 12:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:50:37 -0500, wrote: On 4/12/2012 9:44 AM, -MIKE- wrote: On 4/12/12 9:35 AM, Swingman wrote: On 4/12/2012 8:20 AM, Dave wrote: On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 08:05:03 -0500, wrote: Pex is "fully code compliant", just try using it in building a house many in jurisdictions across the US. Has there been noticeable resistance to it? To me anyway, it looks like the ultimate plumbing product. At least for the current state of the art. Absolutely in some areas, to the point that it can not be used. Although as soon as some of these old farts on jurisdiction's zoning and building standards boards retire, that should be subject to change. Tru dat. Most resistance to new, better technology comes from old school technophobes often entrenched in a corrupt system protecting their fellow old schoolers and the technology they profit the most from. If you can sit on a house for 3 days, sweating copper and charging like it's rocket surgery, why would you switch to Pex and only get a 1/2 day's labor, then have to go find another client? +1 Makes a lot of sense when you quote the job on a contract basis instead of time and materials. Contractor is used to, say, $3500 to plumb the house in copper, so he's REAL happy to pay $2500 to have it done in PEX - while $1400 would still be making the plumber money. But in MY opinion, a house plumbed with copper just looks so much NEATER, and more professional than the "spiderwebs" of PEX that I see in a lot of new houses. Nothing requires PEX to be run in straight lines with neat 90 degree bends - so the "cheap" plumber just runs the crap in the shortest, easiest route, looks be damned. I prefer the advantages of how PEX is usually installed over the looks of copper how copper is typically installed. In south Texas we ocassionally get a harsh winter. Pipes freeze, copper pipes seem to be the first to burst. Up here we occaisionally do NOT get harsh winters, and I've never had one of my copper pipes burst - but then I don't allow them to freeze either. PEX expands and is less likely to break and in my case comes with a 10 year warranty. Additionally PEX is normally run through a mainfold. The previous winter I was able to shut off water to the out side hose bibs from the manifold and open the bibs to drain the water before the freeze. I had running water for all of the i other nterior faucets. I can do that in my copper plumbed house too, with no manifold. However, I've chosen to use hydrants instead (frost-proof hose bibs) But should you develop a leak at any fixture or pipe leading to that fixture can you isolate that feed and leave every thing else on? I can isolate my hot, hard cold, and soft cold water separately en mass, and I can shut off any outlet separately to replace or service the faucet or valve. All service valves have been replaced with ball valves, so I don't run into seized shutoff valves. So I guess the short answer is yes. |
#92
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 13:54:02 -0500, Swingman wrote:
On 4/13/2012 1:22 PM, wrote: Water pipes in the ATTIC?? Now that's a bass ackwards way of doing things - at least it would be up here. Water pipes in the attic WOULD be likely to freeze. We don't heat our attics - at least not intentionally. It's standard procedure in almost all single story structures in the Southern and Western states of the US, particularly in what is known as "Hot Humid Climates", typically areas like the Gulf Coast where basements are mostly out of the question due water tables, and 99.9% of residential foundations are slab on grade. That said, unvented attics, where all plumbing and HVAC duct work are within the thermal envelope, is gaining some traction, although relatively expensive and does have it's own drawbacks. Besides, how else would plumbers, sheetrockers and painter's make it through a harsh winter without some burst pipe work?? They manage quite well up here. Construction slows down, but certainly does not stop during the winter. Some of the real wusses head south for winter holidays. |
#93
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 13:55:49 -0500, Swingman wrote:
On 4/13/2012 1:26 PM, wrote: Around here the plumbing is in the BASEMENT. I know much of the USA hasn't got a clue what a basement is. Crawl-space or cellar, perhaps - but not an actual useable basement. And why do you suppose that is? Mostly because half the US is built on land that you could not get a building permit for in Canada??? Why anyone would want to build in New Orleans totally escapes me. And half of Florida you'd be better off with a houseboat. |
#94
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 15:42:27 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote: wrote: On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 07:33:16 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote: In article , says... On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:57:59 -0400, "m II" wrote: Did my house in PEX but I will never use those sharkbite fittings. Too expensive and I don't trust them. The pinch ring fittings work fabulous and never seen one leak in four houses, all done by amateur labour. As long as you use good pinch rings and the proper tool. My one reservation with the rings is how long will they last, and what happens if one corrodes in the wall? (say a mouse ****es on it, or some other chemical reaction weakens the clamp material) The rings are copper, they should be at least as resistant to mouse pee as copper pipe, and there's a lot less area exposed to mouse pee. ----------- "Mike Marlow" wrote in message ... Ugh! I just can't warm to those. I've used them and I realize their value, but I just cannot get over the movement of the joint with them. I thought the clips were aluminum or steel. Are they tinned copper, or are yours different from what I see around here? Not sure Clare. I just bought what Home Depot had (Sharkbite). They did go together just as advertised, and they are indeed leak proof, so no complaint on that end. But - they don't make a rigid run. The line in and the line out have quite a bit of play in them so the entire run is somewhat floppy. Probably will never leak, but it will always be floppy unless you put in some additional hangers. For a quick fix - I use them. For something more permanant - I sweat a joint. Were you talking about sharkbites or PEX clamps?? The sharkbites are generally BRASS, not copper - and the pex clamps appear to be either steel or aluminum. I'm thinking steel, but I've never checked - and never actually installed one. PEX clamps, if loose enough to allow any movement on the fitting WILL leak. If not today, real soon. |
#95
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 15:18:10 -0500, Swingman wrote:
On 4/13/2012 2:53 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: Leon wrote: Yeah, considering relatively no one has a basement in the south, where else would you run the plumbing? ;~) That is so funny. For those of us in the frost belt, we cannot conceive of a house without a basement - or at least a crawl space (a cheap alternative that raises at least one eyebrow...) under a home. Hell - it ain't a home without a basement. Where the hell do you guys do your reloading? Can't put an ammo bench out in the garage - it gets all dirty'd up from painting cars! Where do you put the pool table? The wife's sewing room? Ya just can't really have a home without a basement. Even in Texas! I'll give you a dime for every basement in the Texas if you'll give me a penny for everyone in the "frost belt". They're not unheard of, but rarer than unicorn poop on a roof. Occasionally someone (usually from the NE) with more money than sense, will get a code variance at huge cost and risk and actually build one ... in the trade we call them what they will soon be ... "indoor swimming pools". Unless the builder's name is Noah. What New Orleans needs is a statute requiring ferrocrete (hull) basements in ALL new construction homes. Then next time the flood barriers are breached they'll all turn into yachts or houseboats. |
#96
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On 4/13/12 8:29 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 15:42:27 -0400, "Mike Marlow" wrote: wrote: On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 07:33:16 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote: In , says... On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:57:59 -0400, "m wrote: Did my house in PEX but I will never use those sharkbite fittings. Too expensive and I don't trust them. The pinch ring fittings work fabulous and never seen one leak in four houses, all done by amateur labour. As long as you use good pinch rings and the proper tool. My one reservation with the rings is how long will they last, and what happens if one corrodes in the wall? (say a mouse ****es on it, or some other chemical reaction weakens the clamp material) The rings are copper, they should be at least as resistant to mouse pee as copper pipe, and there's a lot less area exposed to mouse pee. ----------- "Mike Marlow" wrote in message ... Ugh! I just can't warm to those. I've used them and I realize their value, but I just cannot get over the movement of the joint with them. I thought the clips were aluminum or steel. Are they tinned copper, or are yours different from what I see around here? Not sure Clare. I just bought what Home Depot had (Sharkbite). They did go together just as advertised, and they are indeed leak proof, so no complaint on that end. But - they don't make a rigid run. The line in and the line out have quite a bit of play in them so the entire run is somewhat floppy. Probably will never leak, but it will always be floppy unless you put in some additional hangers. For a quick fix - I use them. For something more permanant - I sweat a joint. Were you talking about sharkbites or PEX clamps?? The sharkbites are generally BRASS, not copper - and the pex clamps appear to be either steel or aluminum. I'm thinking steel, but I've never checked - and never actually installed one. PEX clamps, if loose enough to allow any movement on the fitting WILL leak. If not today, real soon. http://www.watts.com/pages/learnAbou...p.asp?catId=70 The cinch-clamps are steel and generally used in trailers and double-wide type prefab homes. That's not what I use and I've been told to stay away from them by the plumbing supply places. Crimp rings are sold copper and will last as long as anything else, for all practical purposes. Pex crimp rings allow for rotation of the tubing around the fitting but will not leak. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#97
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 15:57:53 -0500, Steve Turner
wrote: On 4/13/2012 2:42 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: I just bought what Home Depot had (Sharkbite). They did go together just as advertised, and they are indeed leak proof, so no complaint on that end. But - they don't make a rigid run. The line in and the line out have quite a bit of play in them so the entire run is somewhat floppy. Probably will never leak, but it will always be floppy unless you put in some additional hangers. For a quick fix - I use them. For something more permanant - I sweat a joint. What do you guys think about this apparatus: http://www.garrettwade.com/copper-pi...ol/p/04D01.02/ I'm reasonably adept at sweating joints, but there have been some times when this thing would have come in handy, assuming it works as advertised. Looks like a real handy tool - and just as a matter of interest - remember that thread a few months ago about heating the pipe or the fitting??? Notice the tool clamps to the PIPE, NOT the fitting??? I wonder why??? Because it WORKS. |
#98
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
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#99
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 19:25:25 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote: In article , says... On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 07:33:16 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote: In article , says... On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:57:59 -0400, "m II" wrote: Did my house in PEX but I will never use those sharkbite fittings. Too expensive and I don't trust them. The pinch ring fittings work fabulous and never seen one leak in four houses, all done by amateur labour. As long as you use good pinch rings and the proper tool. My one reservation with the rings is how long will they last, and what happens if one corrodes in the wall? (say a mouse ****es on it, or some other chemical reaction weakens the clamp material) The rings are copper, they should be at least as resistant to mouse pee as copper pipe, and there's a lot less area exposed to mouse pee. ----------- "Mike Marlow" wrote in message .. . Ugh! I just can't warm to those. I've used them and I realize their value, but I just cannot get over the movement of the joint with them. I thought the clips were aluminum or steel. Are they tinned copper, or are yours different from what I see around here? My rings are heavy copper with a black oxide coating. If the rings you see are bright and shiny then they're stainless steel. That's all I've ever seen up here.The shiny silver coloured ones. |
#100
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
wrote:
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 15:57:53 -0500, Steve Turner wrote: On 4/13/2012 2:42 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: I just bought what Home Depot had (Sharkbite). They did go together just as advertised, and they are indeed leak proof, so no complaint on that end. But - they don't make a rigid run. The line in and the line out have quite a bit of play in them so the entire run is somewhat floppy. Probably will never leak, but it will always be floppy unless you put in some additional hangers. For a quick fix - I use them. For something more permanant - I sweat a joint. What do you guys think about this apparatus: http://www.garrettwade.com/copper-pi...ol/p/04D01.02/ I'm reasonably adept at sweating joints, but there have been some times when this thing would have come in handy, assuming it works as advertised. Looks like a real handy tool - and just as a matter of interest - remember that thread a few months ago about heating the pipe or the fitting??? Notice the tool clamps to the PIPE, NOT the fitting??? I wonder why??? Because it WORKS. It does look like a nifty tool. I wouldn't buy one for the amount of sweating I do, but it does look cool. As for what to heat - In my opinon it doesn't matter - the heat will transfer to both parts. -- -Mike- |
#101
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On 4/13/2012 8:34 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 15:18:10 -0500, wrote: On 4/13/2012 2:53 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: Leon wrote: Yeah, considering relatively no one has a basement in the south, where else would you run the plumbing? ;~) That is so funny. For those of us in the frost belt, we cannot conceive of a house without a basement - or at least a crawl space (a cheap alternative that raises at least one eyebrow...) under a home. Hell - it ain't a home without a basement. Where the hell do you guys do your reloading? Can't put an ammo bench out in the garage - it gets all dirty'd up from painting cars! Where do you put the pool table? The wife's sewing room? Ya just can't really have a home without a basement. Even in Texas! I'll give you a dime for every basement in the Texas if you'll give me a penny for everyone in the "frost belt". They're not unheard of, but rarer than unicorn poop on a roof. Occasionally someone (usually from the NE) with more money than sense, will get a code variance at huge cost and risk and actually build one ... in the trade we call them what they will soon be ... "indoor swimming pools". Unless the builder's name is Noah. What New Orleans needs is a statute requiring ferrocrete (hull) basements in ALL new construction homes. Then next time the flood barriers are breached they'll all turn into yachts or houseboats. The French Quarter, where the original New Orleans was built, has survived 300 years quite nicely. Apparently there weren't as many fools in the early 1700's to sell swamp land to ... besides, it's about 300 miles from Texas. -- www.eWoodShop.com Last update: 4/15/2010 KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) http://gplus.to/eWoodShop |
#102
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 13:26:02 -0400, wrote:
On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:36:27 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 20:57:15 -0400, wrote: On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 19:15:26 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 4/11/2012 7:05 PM, tiredofspam wrote: Used to be that framing had to be toe nailed... Now I see nails used from top and bottom sil to studs. Not as strong. The toe nailing really locks it in from both sides. straight nailing will not withstand storm forces as much. But then again, most roofs will easily lift before the framing gives. Typically hurricane straps add tremendous strength if you are building for wind storm resistance. If you google "strength of wood screws" you will find http://www.awc.org/pdf/.../Part11Woo...pp133to139.pdf. Um, remove the ... and give us the actual URL, please. Parsing error! Silly wabbit. That's why I said google it and the hacked up URL was just to identify the post, Dumb bunny _Not_ dumb, sir. Pureasslazy. -- Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling. -- Margaret Lee Runbeck |
#103
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Shear strength of screws
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#104
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On 4/13/2012 8:21 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 13:53:30 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 4/13/2012 1:20 PM, wrote: On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 07:22:27 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 4/12/2012 12:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:50:37 -0500, wrote: On 4/12/2012 9:44 AM, -MIKE- wrote: On 4/12/12 9:35 AM, Swingman wrote: On 4/12/2012 8:20 AM, Dave wrote: On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 08:05:03 -0500, wrote: Pex is "fully code compliant", just try using it in building a house many in jurisdictions across the US. Has there been noticeable resistance to it? To me anyway, it looks like the ultimate plumbing product. At least for the current state of the art. Absolutely in some areas, to the point that it can not be used. Although as soon as some of these old farts on jurisdiction's zoning and building standards boards retire, that should be subject to change. Tru dat. Most resistance to new, better technology comes from old school technophobes often entrenched in a corrupt system protecting their fellow old schoolers and the technology they profit the most from. If you can sit on a house for 3 days, sweating copper and charging like it's rocket surgery, why would you switch to Pex and only get a 1/2 day's labor, then have to go find another client? +1 Makes a lot of sense when you quote the job on a contract basis instead of time and materials. Contractor is used to, say, $3500 to plumb the house in copper, so he's REAL happy to pay $2500 to have it done in PEX - while $1400 would still be making the plumber money. But in MY opinion, a house plumbed with copper just looks so much NEATER, and more professional than the "spiderwebs" of PEX that I see in a lot of new houses. Nothing requires PEX to be run in straight lines with neat 90 degree bends - so the "cheap" plumber just runs the crap in the shortest, easiest route, looks be damned. I prefer the advantages of how PEX is usually installed over the looks of copper how copper is typically installed. In south Texas we ocassionally get a harsh winter. Pipes freeze, copper pipes seem to be the first to burst. Up here we occaisionally do NOT get harsh winters, and I've never had one of my copper pipes burst - but then I don't allow them to freeze either. PEX expands and is less likely to break and in my case comes with a 10 year warranty. Additionally PEX is normally run through a mainfold. The previous winter I was able to shut off water to the out side hose bibs from the manifold and open the bibs to drain the water before the freeze. I had running water for all of the i other nterior faucets. I can do that in my copper plumbed house too, with no manifold. However, I've chosen to use hydrants instead (frost-proof hose bibs) But should you develop a leak at any fixture or pipe leading to that fixture can you isolate that feed and leave every thing else on? I can isolate my hot, hard cold, and soft cold water separately en mass, and I can shut off any outlet separately to replace or service the faucet or valve. All service valves have been replaced with ball valves, so I don't run into seized shutoff valves. So I guess the short answer is yes. I asked , can you isolate a fixture should that fixture "or the pipe leading to that fixture", develop a leak. Most any one can do what you just described. I can turn off the water at the fixture or the manifold to isolate that entire run. I basically have a supply manifold with 28 separate valves and a valve at the end of each of those runs. BTY simply using a water softener helps greatly in preventing a valve from seizing. But my new home PEX plumbing came with all ball valves. In my older home the valve that I shut off the most were the water closet/toilet valves. They were difficult to turn after 5~10 years but about 8 years ago we installed a water softener and the next time I turned off any of the supply valves any where in the house they turned like they were brand new. This did not happen immediately but eventually all of the ones that I worked on operated freely. |
#105
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Shear strength of screws
On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 07:42:08 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
They were difficult to turn after 5~10 years but about 8 years ago we installed a water softener and the next time I turned off any of the supply valves any where in the house they turned like they were brand new. This did not happen immediately but eventually all of the ones that I worked on operated freely. Hard water causes all sorts of problems. Early on, I'd have figured your wife would have had trouble with dishes and clothes washing and gotten you to do something about it. Of course, those things may well be part of your duties and you just put off the hard/soft water fix for a number of years. |
#106
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Shear strength of screws
On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 07:42:08 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 4/13/2012 8:21 PM, wrote: On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 13:53:30 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 4/13/2012 1:20 PM, wrote: On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 07:22:27 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 4/12/2012 12:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:50:37 -0500, wrote: On 4/12/2012 9:44 AM, -MIKE- wrote: On 4/12/12 9:35 AM, Swingman wrote: On 4/12/2012 8:20 AM, Dave wrote: On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 08:05:03 -0500, wrote: Pex is "fully code compliant", just try using it in building a house many in jurisdictions across the US. Has there been noticeable resistance to it? To me anyway, it looks like the ultimate plumbing product. At least for the current state of the art. Absolutely in some areas, to the point that it can not be used. Although as soon as some of these old farts on jurisdiction's zoning and building standards boards retire, that should be subject to change. Tru dat. Most resistance to new, better technology comes from old school technophobes often entrenched in a corrupt system protecting their fellow old schoolers and the technology they profit the most from. If you can sit on a house for 3 days, sweating copper and charging like it's rocket surgery, why would you switch to Pex and only get a 1/2 day's labor, then have to go find another client? +1 Makes a lot of sense when you quote the job on a contract basis instead of time and materials. Contractor is used to, say, $3500 to plumb the house in copper, so he's REAL happy to pay $2500 to have it done in PEX - while $1400 would still be making the plumber money. But in MY opinion, a house plumbed with copper just looks so much NEATER, and more professional than the "spiderwebs" of PEX that I see in a lot of new houses. Nothing requires PEX to be run in straight lines with neat 90 degree bends - so the "cheap" plumber just runs the crap in the shortest, easiest route, looks be damned. I prefer the advantages of how PEX is usually installed over the looks of copper how copper is typically installed. In south Texas we ocassionally get a harsh winter. Pipes freeze, copper pipes seem to be the first to burst. Up here we occaisionally do NOT get harsh winters, and I've never had one of my copper pipes burst - but then I don't allow them to freeze either. PEX expands and is less likely to break and in my case comes with a 10 year warranty. Additionally PEX is normally run through a mainfold. The previous winter I was able to shut off water to the out side hose bibs from the manifold and open the bibs to drain the water before the freeze. I had running water for all of the i other nterior faucets. I can do that in my copper plumbed house too, with no manifold. However, I've chosen to use hydrants instead (frost-proof hose bibs) But should you develop a leak at any fixture or pipe leading to that fixture can you isolate that feed and leave every thing else on? I can isolate my hot, hard cold, and soft cold water separately en mass, and I can shut off any outlet separately to replace or service the faucet or valve. All service valves have been replaced with ball valves, so I don't run into seized shutoff valves. So I guess the short answer is yes. I asked , can you isolate a fixture should that fixture "or the pipe leading to that fixture", develop a leak. Most any one can do what you just described. I can turn off the water at the fixture or the manifold to isolate that entire run. I basically have a supply manifold with 28 separate valves and a valve at the end of each of those runs. 28? What do you have, a bloody motel???? There is a total of 16 water outlets in my whole house. If I shut off the soft water I affect 5 of them. If I shut off the hot water I affect 5. If I shut off all soft water I affect 8. I can live with any one of those situations untill I can repair whatever has gone wrong, assuming it is more than just repairing a faucet, which I can isolate totally. BTY simply using a water softener helps greatly in preventing a valve from seizing. I use a water softener, but I don't soften drinking water, toylet flush, or outside faucet. But my new home PEX plumbing came with all ball valves. In my older home the valve that I shut off the most were the water closet/toilet valves. They were difficult to turn after 5~10 years but about 8 years ago we installed a water softener and the next time I turned off any of the supply valves any where in the house they turned like they were brand new. This did not happen immediately but eventually all of the ones that I worked on operated freely. Once a valve is seized by the hard water up here, NOTHING is going to get it moving again - and even soft water shutoff valves can (and do) go wonky after a while - unless they are ball valves. |
#107
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 09:49:21 -0400, Dave wrote:
On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 07:42:08 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet They were difficult to turn after 5~10 years but about 8 years ago we installed a water softener and the next time I turned off any of the supply valves any where in the house they turned like they were brand new. This did not happen immediately but eventually all of the ones that I worked on operated freely. Hard water causes all sorts of problems. Early on, I'd have figured your wife would have had trouble with dishes and clothes washing and gotten you to do something about it. Of course, those things may well be part of your duties and you just put off the hard/soft water fix for a number of years. Some places the water is naturally soft - and others the hard water is hard but not agressive. Then there's the water I grew up with - hard as a stone and as agressive as battery acid. |
#108
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On 4/14/2012 3:56 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 07:42:08 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 4/13/2012 8:21 PM, wrote: On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 13:53:30 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 4/13/2012 1:20 PM, wrote: On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 07:22:27 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 4/12/2012 12:40 PM, wrote: On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:50:37 -0500, wrote: On 4/12/2012 9:44 AM, -MIKE- wrote: On 4/12/12 9:35 AM, Swingman wrote: On 4/12/2012 8:20 AM, Dave wrote: On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 08:05:03 -0500, wrote: Pex is "fully code compliant", just try using it in building a house many in jurisdictions across the US. Has there been noticeable resistance to it? To me anyway, it looks like the ultimate plumbing product. At least for the current state of the art. Absolutely in some areas, to the point that it can not be used. Although as soon as some of these old farts on jurisdiction's zoning and building standards boards retire, that should be subject to change. Tru dat. Most resistance to new, better technology comes from old school technophobes often entrenched in a corrupt system protecting their fellow old schoolers and the technology they profit the most from. If you can sit on a house for 3 days, sweating copper and charging like it's rocket surgery, why would you switch to Pex and only get a 1/2 day's labor, then have to go find another client? +1 Makes a lot of sense when you quote the job on a contract basis instead of time and materials. Contractor is used to, say, $3500 to plumb the house in copper, so he's REAL happy to pay $2500 to have it done in PEX - while $1400 would still be making the plumber money. But in MY opinion, a house plumbed with copper just looks so much NEATER, and more professional than the "spiderwebs" of PEX that I see in a lot of new houses. Nothing requires PEX to be run in straight lines with neat 90 degree bends - so the "cheap" plumber just runs the crap in the shortest, easiest route, looks be damned. I prefer the advantages of how PEX is usually installed over the looks of copper how copper is typically installed. In south Texas we ocassionally get a harsh winter. Pipes freeze, copper pipes seem to be the first to burst. Up here we occaisionally do NOT get harsh winters, and I've never had one of my copper pipes burst - but then I don't allow them to freeze either. PEX expands and is less likely to break and in my case comes with a 10 year warranty. Additionally PEX is normally run through a mainfold. The previous winter I was able to shut off water to the out side hose bibs from the manifold and open the bibs to drain the water before the freeze. I had running water for all of the i other nterior faucets. I can do that in my copper plumbed house too, with no manifold. However, I've chosen to use hydrants instead (frost-proof hose bibs) But should you develop a leak at any fixture or pipe leading to that fixture can you isolate that feed and leave every thing else on? I can isolate my hot, hard cold, and soft cold water separately en mass, and I can shut off any outlet separately to replace or service the faucet or valve. All service valves have been replaced with ball valves, so I don't run into seized shutoff valves. So I guess the short answer is yes. I asked , can you isolate a fixture should that fixture "or the pipe leading to that fixture", develop a leak. Most any one can do what you just described. I can turn off the water at the fixture or the manifold to isolate that entire run. I basically have a supply manifold with 28 separate valves and a valve at the end of each of those runs. 28? What do you have, a bloody motel???? There is a total of 16 water outlets in my whole house. If I shut off the soft water I affect 5 of them. If I shut off the hot water I affect 5. If I shut off all soft water I affect 8. I can live with any one of those situations untill I can repair whatever has gone wrong, assuming it is more than just repairing a faucet, which I can isolate totally. LOL, no hotel. I have 4 in the kitchen, 2-Sink, 1-DW, 1- Frig 3 for exterior hose bibs 10, 5 for each of the 2 guest baths 2 for the laundry 9 for the master bath Then there is the additional ball valve at the end of each or those runs except for the tub, shower, and outside hose bibs. My water softener filters all water or not except for 1 extra hose bib before the softener which I never use. BTY simply using a water softener helps greatly in preventing a valve from seizing. I use a water softener, but I don't soften drinking water, toylet flush, or outside faucet. But my new home PEX plumbing came with all ball valves. In my older home the valve that I shut off the most were the water closet/toilet valves. They were difficult to turn after 5~10 years but about 8 years ago we installed a water softener and the next time I turned off any of the supply valves any where in the house they turned like they were brand new. This did not happen immediately but eventually all of the ones that I worked on operated freely. Once a valve is seized by the hard water up here, NOTHING is going to get it moving again - and even soft water shutoff valves can (and do) go wonky after a while - unless they are ball valves. Wow shall we say hard water? :~) I will admit that my valves took 3~5 years before the build up eroded and freed them. |
#109
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
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#110
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Shear strength of screws
Lead free solder doesn't flow anyway. It doesn't matter what you heat.
--------------- "Mike Marlow" wrote in message ... It does look like a nifty tool. I wouldn't buy one for the amount of sweating I do, but it does look cool. As for what to heat - In my opinon it doesn't matter - the heat will transfer to both parts. ------------ wrote: Looks like a real handy tool - and just as a matter of interest - remember that thread a few months ago about heating the pipe or the fitting??? Notice the tool clamps to the PIPE, NOT the fitting??? I wonder why??? Because it WORKS. |
#111
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
The pinch rings I use are Stainless Steel... not plated. They are
strong and do not rust. ------------ "-MIKE-" wrote in message ... The cinch-clamps are steel and generally used in trailers and double-wide type prefab homes. That's not what I use and I've been told to stay away from them by the plumbing supply places. Crimp rings are sold copper and will last as long as anything else, for all practical purposes. Pex crimp rings allow for rotation of the tubing around the fitting but will not leak. ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#112
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
Stainless steel pinch ring for in-house plumbing.Very reliable and once
pinched and removed the PEX is very difficult to remove from the fitting anyway, without splitting with a blade. They are just different manufacturer's systems. ------------- "Peter Bennett" wrote in message news.com... There are two types of "permanent" PEX fasteners. The one preferred for house plumbing is a copper ring that requires a fairly expensive tool to compress the ring smoothly around the pipe. The other, apparently preferred for lawn sprinkler systems, uses a stainless ring with an "ear" which is squeezed by a less expensive crimping tool - it leaves the crimped "ear" sticking out from the ring. (Perhaps the copper ring is the preferred technique, but won't stand up to burial, so the stainless crimp is accepted for that - just my guess...) |
#113
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On 4/17/2012 7:44 AM, m II wrote:
Lead free solder doesn't flow anyway. It doesn't matter what you heat. --------------- "Mike Marlow" wrote in message ... It does look like a nifty tool. I wouldn't buy one for the amount of sweating I do, but it does look cool. As for what to heat - In my opinon it doesn't matter - the heat will transfer to both parts. ------------ wrote: Looks like a real handy tool - and just as a matter of interest - remember that thread a few months ago about heating the pipe or the fitting??? Notice the tool clamps to the PIPE, NOT the fitting??? I wonder why??? Because it WORKS. That's what flux is for, ya top-posting flux-knuckle. -- Free bad advice available here. To reply, eat the taco. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/ |
#114
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
PEX would burst at those high temperatures with any pressure on it.
Soft plastic with boiling steam inside it? This is how solar hot water systems work and if the fluids are not kept flowing the steam explosions can be quite dramatic. ------------- "Mike Marlow" wrote in message ... Correct. Maybe it's a regional thing, but in the NE, we don't run water lines into the attic. The attic is supposed to be very cold in the winter and very hot in the summer. We keep our water lines located in the more comfortable areas of the house. ------------- wrote: Water pipes in the ATTIC?? Now that's a bass ackwards way of doing things - at least it would be up here. Water pipes in the attic WOULD be likely to freeze. We don't heat our attics - at least not intentionally. |
#115
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
I had that KW water eat a few of my copper pipes after 20 years.
---------- wrote in message news Some places the water is naturally soft - and others the hard water is hard but not agressive. Then there's the water I grew up with - hard as a stone and as agressive as battery acid. |
#116
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
You obviously haven't soldered with it or you wouldn't think flux
substitutes for real solder you trolling flux-sucker. PEX wouldn't be so popular if it wasn't for lead-free sludge. --------- "Steve Turner" wrote in message ... That's what flux is for, ya top-posting flux-knuckle. ---------- On 4/17/2012 7:44 AM, m II wrote: Lead free solder doesn't flow anyway. It doesn't matter what you heat. --------------- "Mike Marlow" wrote in message ... It does look like a nifty tool. I wouldn't buy one for the amount of sweating I do, but it does look cool. As for what to heat - In my opinon it doesn't matter - the heat will transfer to both parts. ------------ wrote: Looks like a real handy tool - and just as a matter of interest - remember that thread a few months ago about heating the pipe or the fitting??? Notice the tool clamps to the PIPE, NOT the fitting??? I wonder why??? Because it WORKS. |
#117
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On 4/17/2012 8:16 AM, m II wrote:
You obviously haven't soldered with it or you wouldn't think flux substitutes for real solder you trolling flux-sucker. PEX wouldn't be so popular if it wasn't for lead-free sludge. --------- "Steve Turner" wrote in message ... That's what flux is for, ya top-posting flux-knuckle. ---------- On 4/17/2012 7:44 AM, m II wrote: Lead free solder doesn't flow anyway. It doesn't matter what you heat. --------------- "Mike Marlow" wrote in message ... It does look like a nifty tool. I wouldn't buy one for the amount of sweating I do, but it does look cool. As for what to heat - In my opinon it doesn't matter - the heat will transfer to both parts. ------------ wrote: Looks like a real handy tool - and just as a matter of interest - remember that thread a few months ago about heating the pipe or the fitting??? Notice the tool clamps to the PIPE, NOT the fitting??? I wonder why??? Because it WORKS. Yes I HAVE, many times. It DOES flow, with the proper flux and the right amount of heat. Granted, lead-based solder is much easier to use (for less capable morons such as yourself), but I'm certainly not going to use it on MY copper pipes through which my drinking water passes. Sounds like you have no about qualms doing so, which could explain a lot about your behavior. -- Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes. To reply, eat the taco. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/ |
#118
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
Yeah, yeah "the right amount of heat"... blah, blah except none of
your ilk that have made this admission of ignorance have managed to create many complete houses full of non-leak joints, reliably, with it, so the world gave up waiting and went to PEX installations after putting out dozens of attempts to resolve the lack of flow problems. Maybe better insults would make your story more credible? ------------ "Steve Turner" wrote in message ... Yes I HAVE, many times. It DOES flow, with the proper flux and the right amount of heat. Granted, lead-based solder is much easier to use (for less capable morons such as yourself), but I'm certainly not going to use it on MY copper pipes through which my drinking water passes. Sounds like you have no about qualms doing so, which could explain a lot about your behavior. ----------------- On 4/17/2012 8:16 AM, m II wrote: You obviously haven't soldered with it or you wouldn't think flux substitutes for real solder you trolling flux-sucker. PEX wouldn't be so popular if it wasn't for lead-free sludge. --------- "Steve Turner" wrote in message ... That's what flux is for, ya top-posting flux-knuckle. ---------- On 4/17/2012 7:44 AM, m II wrote: Lead free solder doesn't flow anyway. It doesn't matter what you heat. --------------- "Mike Marlow" wrote in message ... It does look like a nifty tool. I wouldn't buy one for the amount of sweating I do, but it does look cool. As for what to heat - In my opinon it doesn't matter - the heat will transfer to both parts. ------------ wrote: Looks like a real handy tool - and just as a matter of interest - remember that thread a few months ago about heating the pipe or the fitting??? Notice the tool clamps to the PIPE, NOT the fitting??? I wonder why??? Because it WORKS. |
#119
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On 4/17/12 3:35 PM, m II wrote:
Yeah, yeah "the right amount of heat"... blah, blah except none of your ilk that have made this admission of ignorance have managed to create many complete houses full of non-leak joints, reliably, with it, so the world gave up waiting and went to PEX installations after putting out dozens of attempts to resolve the lack of flow problems. Maybe better insults would make your story more credible? "Better to remain silent and considered a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." You should heed those words. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#120
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Shear strength of screws
On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 16:35:40 -0400, "m II" wrote:
Yeah, yeah "the right amount of heat"... blah, blah except none of your ilk that have made this admission of ignorance have managed to create many complete houses full of non-leak joints, reliably, with it, so the world gave up waiting and went to PEX installations after putting out dozens of attempts to resolve the lack of flow problems. Maybe better insults would make your story more credible? No, you just need CHINESE lead free solder. |
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