On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 20:18:32 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 14:24:41 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Bill wrote:


To each his own, but that sound like a strangle place to put a
screwdriver. How about just holding them with your finger (s)?


Why Bill? He's just trying to keep the blades from turning. You are
right - a finger could easily do it, but there is nothing wrong with
using a screw driver either. Methinks he wants to keep his fingers
from getting dirty...

A soft plastic wand (for the princesses) or wooden popsicle stick
would be a lot safer around electronics, boys and girls.

Well - hopefully it's powered off while cleaning it.

A small metal screwdriver tip could take out a thin trace on a mobo in
a split second. It could also scrap off a SM cap or resistor in a
heartbeat.

And speaking of non-metallic screwdrivers, who has used a Gecko G540
drive before? What driver do you use to get down to those buried
screws they use for motor optimization? I think they're trimpots.
http://www.geckodrive.com/g540-digit...trol-p-39.html

--
Life is an escalator:
You can move forward or backward;
you can not remain still.
-- Patricia Russell-McCloud

wrote:

You are going to get your finger into the powersupply enough to stop
the fan? You must have pretty skinny fingers, or extremely long nails.


I don't think it's the power supply fan that is under discussion above.

wrote:
On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 16:05:42 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 14:24:41 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Bill wrote:


To each his own, but that sound like a strangle place to put a
screwdriver. How about just holding them with your finger (s)?


Why Bill? He's just trying to keep the blades from turning. You are
right - a finger could easily do it, but there is nothing wrong with using a
screw driver either. Methinks he wants to keep his fingers from getting
dirty...

A soft plastic wand (for the princesses) or wooden popsicle stick
would be a lot safer around electronics, boys and girls.
Except you are doing this with the power DISCONNECTED. And HOPEFULLY
before strting to blow the air. Sticking a screwdriver into a rapidly
spinning PC fan WILL remove blades.

Not only that, I ground myself before sticking my hands in the case!

Bill wrote:
wrote:

You are going to get your finger into the powersupply enough to stop
the fan? You must have pretty skinny fingers, or extremely long
nails.

I don't think it's the power supply fan that is under discussion
above.

It sure would be included in the discussion. Ever looked at the dust that a
PS fan can build up? Regardless - power supply or any other fan - no real
threat in using the screwdriver.

--

-Mike-

Larry Jaques wrote:


A small metal screwdriver tip could take out a thin trace on a mobo in
a split second. It could also scrap off a SM cap or resistor in a
heartbeat.


Well - it could if you scraped it across the motherboard, but it's not hard
to place it into a fan blade to keep it from turning from the air stream.

And speaking of non-metallic screwdrivers, who has used a Gecko G540
drive before? What driver do you use to get down to those buried
screws they use for motor optimization? I think they're trimpots.
http://www.geckodrive.com/g540-digit...trol-p-39.html

Hmmmmm... I do have a couple of long nylon (I think...) screw drivers, for
use in areas like that, while tweaking live. Don't think they are any brand
name - probably came from HF a long time ago. I've had them forever.
They've worked as advertised - so much so that they are somewhat
unremarkable to me now. Mine will turn a fair amount of torque - but since
they're nylon, there is a limit. Fine for trim pots and the like, but
they'd never back out a tight screw. I have tried to take out screws that
were too tight and it's easy to tell - you can feel the shaft start to
distort and you know the blade is about to goin BOING. So - you quit at
that point. I also have steel drivers with insulated shafts, that can reach
into live areas, but you have to be careful getting them into where the
screw head is. The obvious stuff.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
wrote:

You are going to get your finger into the powersupply enough to stop
the fan? You must have pretty skinny fingers, or extremely long
nails.

I don't think it's the power supply fan that is under discussion
above.

It sure would be included in the discussion. Ever looked at the dust that a
PS fan can build up? Regardless - power supply or any other fan - no real
threat in using the screwdriver.


To be honest, I never worried to much about the dirt inside of a power
supply. My thinking is that if it's own fan can't blow "dust" out of
its own enclosure, it's probably not much of a threat and/or there's
probably not much I can do about it.

Bill wrote:

To be honest, I never worried to much about the dirt inside of a power
supply. My thinking is that if it's own fan can't blow "dust" out of
its own enclosure, it's probably not much of a threat and/or there's
probably not much I can do about it.

You would be surprised then, to see how much of a dust blanket blows out of
a PS. Is it a huge problem? Well... I'm not really sure, but when I'm
blowing out a PC, I blow it all out - including the PS. Don't see why I
would want to leave a layer of dust behind.

--

-Mike-

Lee Michaels wrote:
I had a computer go down last week. Turns out that the power supply
was clogged with dust and needed to be replaced. It was probably
under powered too, which added to its demise. Talking to some
friends, this has happened to two more people in the last 3 months. All of
them multi monitor machines running some big apps. Regular
computers did not seem to suffer from the same type of problem.

Any input from you guys would be appreciated.

How much dirt you have in your computer depends on the environment. Some of
my customers have so much dust inside the box, that, upon seeing the cloud
of white smoke generated by the exhaust from the Hoover, you'd think the
computer just elected a new Pope.

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 16:05:42 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 14:24:41 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Bill wrote:


To each his own, but that sound like a strangle place to put a
screwdriver. How about just holding them with your finger (s)?


Why Bill? He's just trying to keep the blades from turning. You are
right - a finger could easily do it, but there is nothing wrong with using a
screw driver either. Methinks he wants to keep his fingers from getting
dirty...

A soft plastic wand (for the princesses) or wooden popsicle stick
would be a lot safer around electronics, boys and girls.
Except you are doing this with the power DISCONNECTED. And HOPEFULLY
before strting to blow the air. Sticking a screwdriver into a rapidly
spinning PC fan WILL remove blades.

Maybe if it's a really crappy fan or turning really fast, but the
average PC fan just stalls when you stick a screwdriver in it. If you
don't time it right you may scratch a blade though.

On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 21:29:42 -0400, Bill wrote:

wrote:

You are going to get your finger into the powersupply enough to stop
the fan? You must have pretty skinny fingers, or extremely long nails.


I don't think it's the power supply fan that is under discussion above.
Both the PS fan and the CPU fan require care - as does the fan on a
high-end video card. The PS fan is the one most often damaged because
it IS out of sight, and they PS tends to accumulate dust

On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 23:01:02 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 16:05:42 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 14:24:41 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Bill wrote:


To each his own, but that sound like a strangle place to put a
screwdriver. How about just holding them with your finger (s)?


Why Bill? He's just trying to keep the blades from turning. You are
right - a finger could easily do it, but there is nothing wrong with using a
screw driver either. Methinks he wants to keep his fingers from getting
dirty...

A soft plastic wand (for the princesses) or wooden popsicle stick
would be a lot safer around electronics, boys and girls.
Except you are doing this with the power DISCONNECTED. And HOPEFULLY
before strting to blow the air. Sticking a screwdriver into a rapidly
spinning PC fan WILL remove blades.

Maybe if it's a really crappy fan or turning really fast, but the
average PC fan just stalls when you stick a screwdriver in it. If you
don't time it right you may scratch a blade though.

If it is spinning from compressed air and you even TOUCH the tip with
a screwdriver, the fan is HISTORY. Running as designed they are
hardly "rapidly spinning". - but I've seen them shatter even under
their own power when someone who will remain nameless stuck a
screwdriver in to stop the fan to see if it was the PS fan that was
noisy.

Where would one ever see socketed ICs anymore? That went out when
computers passed the 4MHz infancy stage.

Static electricity is a far bigger hazard for the sensitive chips from
the air movement.

-----------------

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

Not unless you intentionally try to direct the air stream in such a
manner
as to try to lift them, and even then - not likely. Socketed IC's are
not
likely to unseat with that air pressure, shorting jumpers - maybe since
they
can be weak connections. But - you simply don't blow under them to
lift
them. Not a complex solution. Switches - not too likely at all.
Again -
it all comes down to how you apply the air.

Plastic vacuum cleaner nozzles and moving air can generate a lot of
static and that will "fix" your CPU for good in quick time.

Watch the fan bearings with compressed air. I have ruined a few and had
to replace the power supplies.


-------------
"RonB" wrote in message
...
Our quad core machine runs rather warm especially with its upgraded
graphics card. I use canned air for the close in stuff and our house
vacuum, with the long nozzle, for general cleaning. With heat sinks
and internal perforated mounts (disk drive, etc) it pulls air from the
back of objects instead of pushing dust in deeper. Just be careful
and don't bump into board components.

We don't do it quite as often as he recommended but I probably clean
it out 3-4 times a year. The main machine, mentioned above, actually
starts sounding a little different when it wants to be cleaned - a
mild buzz when working harder with big graphics of video.

RonB

On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 21:54:33 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:


A small metal screwdriver tip could take out a thin trace on a mobo in
a split second. It could also scrap off a SM cap or resistor in a
heartbeat.


Well - it could if you scraped it across the motherboard, but it's not hard
to place it into a fan blade to keep it from turning from the air stream.

And speaking of non-metallic screwdrivers, who has used a Gecko G540
drive before? What driver do you use to get down to those buried
screws they use for motor optimization? I think they're trimpots.
http://www.geckodrive.com/g540-digit...trol-p-39.html

Hmmmmm... I do have a couple of long nylon (I think...) screw drivers, for
use in areas like that, while tweaking live. Don't think they are any brand
name - probably came from HF a long time ago. I've had them forever.
They've worked as advertised - so much so that they are somewhat
unremarkable to me now. Mine will turn a fair amount of torque - but since
they're nylon, there is a limit. Fine for trim pots and the like, but
they'd never back out a tight screw. I have tried to take out screws that
were too tight and it's easy to tell - you can feel the shaft start to
distort and you know the blade is about to goin BOING. So - you quit at
that point. I also have steel drivers with insulated shafts, that can reach
into live areas, but you have to be careful getting them into where the
screw head is. The obvious stuff.

If I can find the right size shrink, I'll cover a tiny steel driver I
already have, I guess. Thanks for the tip.

--
Life is an escalator:
You can move forward or backward;
you can not remain still.
-- Patricia Russell-McCloud

On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 21:31:26 -0400, Bill wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 16:05:42 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 14:24:41 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Bill wrote:


To each his own, but that sound like a strangle place to put a
screwdriver. How about just holding them with your finger (s)?


Why Bill? He's just trying to keep the blades from turning. You are
right - a finger could easily do it, but there is nothing wrong with using a
screw driver either. Methinks he wants to keep his fingers from getting
dirty...

A soft plastic wand (for the princesses) or wooden popsicle stick
would be a lot safer around electronics, boys and girls.
Except you are doing this with the power DISCONNECTED. And HOPEFULLY
before strting to blow the air. Sticking a screwdriver into a rapidly
spinning PC fan WILL remove blades.

Not only that, I ground myself before sticking my hands in the case!

Which you can't do if the comp is unplugged and in the shop.
Compressed air creates all -sorts- of static electricity.

--
Life is an escalator:
You can move forward or backward;
you can not remain still.
-- Patricia Russell-McCloud

On Thu, 05 Apr 2012 09:49:39 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 21:31:26 -0400, Bill wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 16:05:42 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 14:24:41 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Bill wrote:


To each his own, but that sound like a strangle place to put a
screwdriver. How about just holding them with your finger (s)?


Why Bill? He's just trying to keep the blades from turning. You are
right - a finger could easily do it, but there is nothing wrong with using a
screw driver either. Methinks he wants to keep his fingers from getting
dirty...

A soft plastic wand (for the princesses) or wooden popsicle stick
would be a lot safer around electronics, boys and girls.
Except you are doing this with the power DISCONNECTED. And HOPEFULLY
before strting to blow the air. Sticking a screwdriver into a rapidly
spinning PC fan WILL remove blades.

Not only that, I ground myself before sticking my hands in the case!

Which you can't do if the comp is unplugged and in the shop.
Compressed air creates all -sorts- of static electricity.
Sure you can. Just take a power cord and snip of the right leg of
the plug (held ground up, legs facing you) and plug the computer in.
It is all grounded, with no power. You touch the case with one hand,
and hold the nozzle in the other and there is no static issue.

m II wrote:

Where would one ever see socketed ICs anymore? That went out when
computers passed the 4MHz infancy stage.

Correct - but that is the only condition I could imagine where someone would
think they could blow a component off a board. One is Shirly not going to
blow off a soldered connection, as was suggested.


Static electricity is a far bigger hazard for the sensitive chips from
the air movement.

Yeahbut, no. You are correct that you can build a charge, but you won't
discharge it - and it's the discharge that causes the problem. Simply
blowing high volumes of air across anything will not build up and discharge
static electricity. If that were the case, we would not be using fans to
move air across delicate electronics.

--

-Mike-



-----------------

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

Not unless you intentionally try to direct the air stream in such a
manner
as to try to lift them, and even then - not likely. Socketed IC's are
not
likely to unseat with that air pressure, shorting jumpers - maybe
since they
can be weak connections. But - you simply don't blow under them to
lift
them. Not a complex solution. Switches - not too likely at all.
Again -
it all comes down to how you apply the air.

"Lee Michaels" leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net writes:

I was thinking of the baby compressors that run artist's air brushes.
But did not think they were powerful enough. Maybe even a fireplace
bellows may work. I looked at a small compressor from Harbor Freight
and was assured that it was very noisy. So that won't work. Maybe I
am asking too much, inexpensive, quiet and effective. Any input from
you guys would be appreciated.

Make sure the computer is off. DAMHIK

On Apr 5, 7:40*am, "m II" wrote:
Plastic vacuum cleaner nozzles and moving air can generate a *lot of
static and that will "fix" your CPU for good in quick time.

Watch the fan bearings with compressed air. I have ruined a few and had
to replace the power supplies.

-------------"RonB" *wrote in message

...
Our quad core machine runs rather warm especially with its upgraded
graphics card. *I use canned air for the close in stuff and our house
vacuum, with the long nozzle, for general cleaning. *With heat sinks
and internal perforated mounts (disk drive, etc) it pulls air from the
back of objects instead of pushing dust in deeper. *Just be careful
and don't bump into board components.

We don't do it quite as often as he recommended but I probably clean
it out 3-4 times a year. *The main machine, mentioned above, actually
starts sounding a little different when it wants to be cleaned - a
mild buzz when working harder with big graphics of video.

RonB

That is why I think vacuum is a little more gentle.

RonB

From my experience vacuums are worse.
Ever vacuum up drywall dust with a central-vac? You can generate
lightning bolts that can set you on your ass.

Compressed air nozzles don't seem to generate the static build-up.


-------
"RonB" wrote in message
...
That is why I think vacuum is a little more gentle.
RonB

-------------
On Apr 5, 7:40 am, "m II" wrote:
Plastic vacuum cleaner nozzles and moving air can generate a lot of
static and that will "fix" your CPU for good in quick time.

Watch the fan bearings with compressed air. I have ruined a few and
had
to replace the power supplies.


--------------
-------------"RonB" wrote in message

...
Our quad core machine runs rather warm especially with its upgraded
graphics card. I use canned air for the close in stuff and our house
vacuum, with the long nozzle, for general cleaning. With heat sinks
and internal perforated mounts (disk drive, etc) it pulls air from
the
back of objects instead of pushing dust in deeper. Just be careful
and don't bump into board components.

We don't do it quite as often as he recommended but I probably clean
it out 3-4 times a year. The main machine, mentioned above, actually
starts sounding a little different when it wants to be cleaned - a
mild buzz when working harder with big graphics of video.

RonB

I would have to disagree. The discharge is only the visible result of
too much charge equalizing usually over about 10kV. 60V can ruin most
MOS components.

I still do it but I just ruined the bearings on a PSU fan, just last
week, doing it. Keep your hand on the fan so the sensitive bearings
don't destroy themselves.

Components are not going to blow off, though. Keep PSI down and nozzle
a few inches away.


-----------

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Yeahbut, no. You are correct that you can build a charge, but you
won't
discharge it - and it's the discharge that causes the problem. Simply
blowing high volumes of air across anything will not build up and
discharge
static electricity. If that were the case, we would not be using fans
to
move air across delicate electronics.