Swingman wrote in
:

When is the last time you saw condensation forming on a mug of hot
coffee on a cold day?

QED

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 2/13/12 10:37 AM, Han wrote:
Norvin wrote in
:

Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

That cool air hitting the warm iron results in almost instant
condensation on the iron.

Generally, warm and moist air hitting a cool surface is what cuases
condensation on the cool object. Cool air hitting a warm surface does
NOT give condensation.

So, when it is zero outside and 70 inside my house with 70% humidity,
the wet stuff on my windows (inside) is NOT condensation???

Please re-read what I said. Inside your house it is 70% relative humidity,
and outside it is zero Fahrenheit? You must have 17humifiers going full
blast!! No wonder that the warm, moist air in your rooms condenses on the
cold windows ...

Yep, i have the humidifier set to try and maintain 30% in the winter,
any higher and the resulting moisture on the window ledges and such can
cause damage, unless I want to religiously go around and wipe them off
at least once a day.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On 2/13/2012 9:37 AM, Han wrote:
Norvin wrote in
:

Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

That cool air hitting the warm iron results in almost instant
condensation on the iron.

Generally, warm and moist air hitting a cool surface is what cuases
condensation on the cool object. Cool air hitting a warm surface does
NOT give condensation.

So, when it is zero outside and 70 inside my house with 70% humidity,
the wet stuff on my windows (inside) is NOT condensation???

Please re-read what I said. Inside your house it is 70% relative humidity,
and outside it is zero Fahrenheit? You must have 17humifiers going full
blast!! No wonder that the warm, moist air in your rooms condenses on the
cold windows ...

And, it all depends around the "dew point" ... the temperature at which
water vapor in the air becomes saturated and condensation starts.

It should also be noted that a "cooler" is relative.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 2/13/2012 10:28 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/13/2012 8:39 AM, Norvin Gordon wrote:
Han wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

That cool air hitting the warm iron results in almost instant
condensation on the iron.

Generally, warm and moist air hitting a cool surface is what cuases
condensation on the cool object. Cool air hitting a warm surface does
NOT give condensation.

So, when it is zero outside and 70 inside my house with 70% humidity,
the wet stuff on my windows (inside) is NOT condensation???

Han is correct.

What you describe is the result of the warmer air inside the building
hitting the colder surface of a cold window, not the reverse.

Condensation generally happens when warm, moisture laden air hits a
cooler service.

When is the last time you saw condensation forming on a mug of hot
coffee on a cold day?



It is relative. If it is warmer on the inside than out, the
condensation will be on the inside of the window. If the reverse is
true it would be on the outside of the window. You can see this when
you have a hot humid day and have the air conditioner very cold.

If it real cold, what about frost?

On 2/13/2012 10:47 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 2/13/2012 10:28 AM, Swingman wrote:

What you describe is the result of the warmer air inside the building
hitting the colder surface of a cold window, not the reverse.

Condensation generally happens when warm, moisture laden air hits a
cooler service.

When is the last time you saw condensation forming on a mug of hot
coffee on a cold day?



It is relative.

Already stated in subsequent post prior to yours.

If it is warmer on the inside than out, the condensation
will be on the inside of the window. If the reverse is true it would be
on the outside of the window. You can see this when you have a hot humid
day and have the air conditioner very cold.

Read again what I said ... nothing in your quote above changes what I
stated in the least.

If it real cold, what about frost?

Frost has nothing to do with condensation. AAMOF, if the conditions are
right for condensation, you won't normally see "frost":

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...0/wea00039.htm

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Swingman wrote in
:

On 2/13/2012 10:47 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 2/13/2012 10:28 AM, Swingman wrote:

What you describe is the result of the warmer air inside the
building hitting the colder surface of a cold window, not the
reverse.

Condensation generally happens when warm, moisture laden air hits a
cooler service.

When is the last time you saw condensation forming on a mug of hot
coffee on a cold day?



It is relative.

Already stated in subsequent post prior to yours.

If it is warmer on the inside than out, the condensation
will be on the inside of the window. If the reverse is true it would
be on the outside of the window. You can see this when you have a hot
humid day and have the air conditioner very cold.

Read again what I said ... nothing in your quote above changes what I
stated in the least.

If it real cold, what about frost?

Frost has nothing to do with condensation. AAMOF, if the conditions
are right for condensation, you won't normally see "frost":

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...0/wea00039.htm

Karl is right. Just like little frozen ice puddles will disappear on a
clear day without any evidence of liquid water (it's called sublimation),
a very cold object can acquire little ice crystals (frost) when the
surrounding air is moist enough. See again "dew-point".

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 2/13/2012 11:04 AM, Han wrote:

Just like little frozen ice puddles will disappear on a
clear day without any evidence of liquid water (it's called sublimation),
a very cold object can acquire little ice crystals (frost) when the
surrounding air is moist enough. See again "dew-point".

I'm guessing they don't teach basic chemistry in middle school (what we
called Jr. High) any longer?

I recall, Mr Becker spent a good deal of time on condensation and
vaporization in ninth grade chemistry, and in High School we actually
learned to calculate the enthalpy of the reactions ... remember that?

Then again, things have changed since a ninth grade in 1957.



--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:51:53 -0500, Greg Guarino wrote:

Do you use this in lieu of a guard? Sorry for the stupid question, but
it certainly looks like you couldn't use both, except perhaps when
cutting wide stock (when you might not need it at all?)

You must be thinking of the type of guard that comes with most low to
medium price saws that combines guard and splitter. No, you can't use
one like that. But you can make or buy an overarm guard that works quite
well. And it's much less of a PITA than the guard/splitter combo.

The overarm guards that you can buy are expensive. But some even come
with dust collection.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

Swingman wrote in
:

I'm guessing they don't teach basic chemistry in middle school (what we
called Jr. High) any longer?

I recall, Mr Becker spent a good deal of time on condensation and
vaporization in ninth grade chemistry, and in High School we actually
learned to calculate the enthalpy of the reactions ... remember that?

Then again, things have changed since a ninth grade in 1957.



Thermo was college work in Holland. First year '63-64. I don't remember
the equivalent of 9th grade high school anymore, thankfully.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 2/13/2012 11:50 AM, Han wrote:
wrote in
:

I'm guessing they don't teach basic chemistry in middle school (what we
called Jr. High) any longer?

I recall, Mr Becker spent a good deal of time on condensation and
vaporization in ninth grade chemistry, and in High School we actually
learned to calculate the enthalpy of the reactions ... remember that?

Then again, things have changed since a ninth grade in 1957.



Thermo was college work in Holland. First year '63-64. I don't remember
the equivalent of 9th grade high school anymore, thankfully.

I clearly remember that the "State of Matter" was one unit that took up
an entire six week grade period in middle school Chemistry.

Thinking back on it, and in contrast to what "education" encompasses
today, I now realize what an excellent education we received in those
days. Based on the perspective, it was safe to say the education in this
country had sunken to such a low point when my youngest graduated in
2002, that it was relatively unrecognizable as such.

I'm pretty well convinced that two factors that were in greater supply
in those days are largely responsible for the current decline ...
discipline, and the quality of the teachers.

The trend downward started in the early seventies around here, and all
it took was one complete 12 year cycle to insure that from that point
forward, educational mediocrity is the only guaranteed result for the
population as a whole.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:51:53 -0500, Greg Guarino
wrote:

SNIP

Do you use this in lieu of a guard? Sorry for the stupid question, but
it certainly looks like you couldn't use both, except perhaps when
cutting wide stock (when you might not need it at all?)

I use it 2 ways. On wider stock where the guard isn't in the way I'll
use 2 of them on long rips where a push stick wouldn't be appropriate
and in lieu of using just my palms on the board. The GR does not slip
on the board, even if it's sawdusty, the way my hands do. You're
holding the board down and against the fence automatically if you
angle the GR's top handle towards the fence as the mfg suggests.

Where the GR really shines is in ripping thin slices against the
fence. Think cutting your own 1/4" thick banding to cover the ends of
plywood panels so the ply grain doesn't show. In other cases, like
ripping a 2.5" board to 2" wide, I feel like I have better control of
the board with a GR (or 2) than I would with a push stick and feather
board. In both these cases I don't use a guard, just run the tunnel in
the GR over the blade. Sounds (and looks) scary, but it's actually
quite safe as your hand is well above the blade and shielded by the
plastic body of the GR. I'm sure it might be possible to get your hand
on the blade when doing this but you'd have to really work at it.

Regards.

Tom

I love the things!

Swingman wrote in
:

On 2/13/2012 11:50 AM, Han wrote:
wrote in
:

I'm guessing they don't teach basic chemistry in middle school (what
we called Jr. High) any longer?

I recall, Mr Becker spent a good deal of time on condensation and
vaporization in ninth grade chemistry, and in High School we
actually learned to calculate the enthalpy of the reactions ...
remember that?

Then again, things have changed since a ninth grade in 1957.



Thermo was college work in Holland. First year '63-64. I don't
remember the equivalent of 9th grade high school anymore, thankfully.

I clearly remember that the "State of Matter" was one unit that took
up an entire six week grade period in middle school Chemistry.

Thinking back on it, and in contrast to what "education" encompasses
today, I now realize what an excellent education we received in those
days. Based on the perspective, it was safe to say the education in
this country had sunken to such a low point when my youngest graduated
in 2002, that it was relatively unrecognizable as such.

In my time, we had at least 3 foreign languages in high school. 15 years
later, when my yougest sister in law graduated, she didn't even have
English. (She is a very nice person anyway).

I'm pretty well convinced that two factors that were in greater supply
in those days are largely responsible for the current decline ...
discipline, and the quality of the teachers.

Discipline is the parents' responsibility, and the baby boom wore out a
lot of teachers, I think.

The trend downward started in the early seventies around here, and all
it took was one complete 12 year cycle to insure that from that point
forward, educational mediocrity is the only guaranteed result for the
population as a whole.

I think a renaissance of sorts is happening now. And, again, when my
daughter graduated from high school 22 or so years ago, at a relatively
common high school on Long Island, at least 3 out of 200 were admitted to
the ivy league college of their choice. If you get a group of kids and
parents together who challenge (and help) the kids, miracles will
happen.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 2/13/2012 12:21 PM, Swingman wrote:
gs have changed since a ninth grade in 1957.


But they now graduate (at least those the graduate) have good self esteem

Keith Nuttle wrote in news:jhbpcv$hh3$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

On 2/13/2012 12:21 PM, Swingman wrote:
gs have changed since a ninth grade in 1957.


But they now graduate (at least those the graduate) have good self esteem

English is my second language, can you please explain more clearly? I
really prefer Dutch, but that may be too much to ask ...


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

(Edward A. Falk) wrote in news:jhbr7e$hnu$1@blue-
new.rahul.net:

Grrr, apropos of nothing (or at least very little), I let a
contractor use my table saw, and he must've cut some green
lumber on it. Time to dig out the steel wool and paste wax.



I'd suggest a green scotchbrite pad and WD-40. Then a cotton cloth, then
pastewax.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 2/13/2012 3:08 PM, Han wrote:
Keith wrote in news:jhbpcv$hh3$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

On 2/13/2012 12:21 PM, Swingman wrote:
gs have changed since a ninth grade in 1957.


But they now graduate (at least those the graduate) have good self esteem

English is my second language, can you please explain more clearly? I
really prefer Dutch, but that may be too much to ask ...

IOW, the idea in the education industry today that having "self esteem"
is more important in the current scheme of things than being well
educated, personally responsible, and achieving goals through hard work
and personal effort.

Often manifested by programs that include lowering testing standards for
certain groups, and the practice of rewarding everyone a prize, instead
of just those who excel because of an inherent talent and/or hard work
(like eliminating Valedictorians from high school graduations) ... just
a couple examples of the misguided nonsense of the "self esteem" card
being played in education today.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 2/13/2012 8:39 AM, Norvin Gordon wrote:
Han wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

That cool air hitting the warm iron results in almost instant
condensation on the iron.

Generally, warm and moist air hitting a cool surface is what cuases
condensation on the cool object. Cool air hitting a warm surface does
NOT give condensation.

So, when it is zero outside and 70 inside my house with 70% humidity,
the wet stuff on my windows (inside) is NOT condensation???

THAT example is warm air hitting a cool surface.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 2/13/2012 1:47 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 2/13/2012 12:21 PM, Swingman wrote:
gs have changed since a ninth grade in 1957.


But they now graduate (at least those the graduate) have good self esteem

everyone graduates. Stupid or not. No dummy left behind, remember?

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 02/13/2012 03:08 PM, Han wrote:
Keith wrote in news:jhbpcv$hh3$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

On 2/13/2012 12:21 PM, Swingman wrote:
gs have changed since a ninth grade in 1957.


But they now graduate (at least those the graduate) have good self esteem

English is my second language, can you please explain more clearly? I
really prefer Dutch, but that may be too much to ask ...

It amazes me how many Americans still need to go back and take "English
As A First Language". I know a LOT of people in your position that
read, write, and speak English better than most of us Americans do.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:50:52 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 2/13/2012 7:12 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

That cool air hitting the warm iron results in almost instant
condensation on the iron.

Generally, warm and moist air hitting a cool surface is what cuases
condensation on the cool object. Cool air hitting a warm surface does NOT
give condensation.


Bull ****!
Sorry Leon. He's right.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:50:52 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 2/13/2012 7:12 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

That cool air hitting the warm iron results in almost instant
condensation on the iron.

Generally, warm and moist air hitting a cool surface is what cuases
condensation on the cool object. Cool air hitting a warm surface does
NOT
give condensation.


Bull ****!
Sorry Leon. He's right.
Yep

On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:15:39 -0600, Swingman wrote:

I'm pretty well convinced that two factors that were in greater supply
in those days are largely responsible for the current decline ...
discipline, and the quality of the teachers.

I agree on discipline, but I don't recall there being a plethora of good
teachers back in the '50s. Maybe one out of 5 of my HS teachers
qualified as good, 3 as mediocre, and 1 as horrible. I remember only one
really excellent teacher.

I hesitate to mention this because it's not P.C., but the rules now force
the teachers to teach the unteachable. Also known as the lowest common
denominator. In my day, if you couldn't keep up after as much extra help
as the teacher could give, you were eventually ignored and given a
failing grade. They can't do that anymore, it hurts the kiddies self
esteem.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On 2/13/2012 7:50 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/13/2012 7:12 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

That cool air hitting the warm iron results in almost instant
condensation on the iron.

Generally, warm and moist air hitting a cool surface is what cuases
condensation on the cool object. Cool air hitting a warm surface does NOT
give condensation.


Bull ****!

It's the condensing surface that needs to be at or below the dewpoint
temperature to cause condensation irrespective of absolute temperature(s).

That's why moisture condenses on the tea glass surface--it's below the
dewpoint in the room at a comfortable or even, perhaps, cool temperature.

--

On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 14:47:46 -0500, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

On 2/13/2012 12:21 PM, Swingman wrote:
gs have changed since a ninth grade in 1957.


But they now graduate (at least those the graduate) have good self esteem

Unfortunately, that's an entirely falsely manufactured self esteem
which will crumble at the slightest touch of reality in the first year
after school. And then they're left with absolutely nothing to look
forward to but asking people if they would like fries with that...

Except in Han's f'rinstance, where people band together and allow
miracles to happen with the brighter kids. They are our salvation.

--
To use fear as the friend it is, we must retrain and reprogram ourselves...
We must persistently and convincingly tell ourselves that the fear is
here--with its gift of energy and heightened awareness--so we can do our
best and learn the most in the new situation.
Peter McWilliams, Life 101

Swingman wrote in
:

On 2/13/2012 3:08 PM, Han wrote:
Keith wrote in news:jhbpcv$hh3$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

On 2/13/2012 12:21 PM, Swingman wrote:
gs have changed since a ninth grade in 1957.


But they now graduate (at least those the graduate) have good self
esteem

English is my second language, can you please explain more clearly?
I really prefer Dutch, but that may be too much to ask ...

IOW, the idea in the education industry today that having "self
esteem" is more important in the current scheme of things than being
well educated, personally responsible, and achieving goals through
hard work and personal effort.

Often manifested by programs that include lowering testing standards
for certain groups, and the practice of rewarding everyone a prize,
instead of just those who excel because of an inherent talent and/or
hard work (like eliminating Valedictorians from high school
graduations) ... just a couple examples of the misguided nonsense of
the "self esteem" card being played in education today.

That is reprehensible, IMNSHO. If someone is smart and can learn easily,
that doesn't make him/her a good person. Everyone needs to get a chance,
and failure is something that should be taught too, if for nothing but a
little humility (DAMHIKT). BUT, and this is a big BUT, that doesn't mean
that good performance in any discipline or behavior shouldn't be
rewarded.


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 2/13/2012 6:38 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:15:39 -0600, Swingman wrote:

I'm pretty well convinced that two factors that were in greater supply
in those days are largely responsible for the current decline ...
discipline, and the quality of the teachers.

I agree on discipline, but I don't recall there being a plethora of good
teachers back in the '50s. Maybe one out of 5 of my HS teachers
qualified as good, 3 as mediocre, and 1 as horrible. I remember only one
really excellent teacher.

I hesitate to mention this because it's not P.C., but the rules now force
the teachers to teach the unteachable. Also known as the lowest common
denominator. In my day, if you couldn't keep up after as much extra help
as the teacher could give, you were eventually ignored and given a
failing grade. They can't do that anymore, it hurts the kiddies self
esteem.

It's quite possible that we were lucky in the school district I
attended. I was decidedly not a stellar student as far as grades, nor
that high in my class standings (to the point of having to submit to
"testing" for admission to a state college ... no SAT back in those
days), but, and based on the excellent _teaching_ I benefited from, I
"tested out" of most of my college freshman classes and started college
almost a sophomore, with +/- 18 credit hours.

My youngest daughter, who graduated from HS in 2002, in the same city,
had teachers that were arguably, and pointedly, illiterate ... there is
no other word to describe their condition. I have their attempts at
replying to my emails as proof ... 12 years of dealing with the ensuing
educational bureaucracy is well documented on my hard drive, ten years
later.

It took an inordinate amount of parental involvement to get a kid out of
basically a school district in the same city some 40 years later.
Especially considering that my parents never so much as interacted with
a single one of my teachers, and never once set foot on the school
grounds ... it simply wasn't necessary.

Pity the poor children who did not get the parental involvement that is
an absolute necessity today ... we will be dealing with them for as long
as they, and their children, and grandchildren, exist ... and they breed
like the good little, two party, political currency rabbits they were
raised to be, all entitled to one vote.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 16:36:05 -0600, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 2/13/2012 1:47 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 2/13/2012 12:21 PM, Swingman wrote:
gs have changed since a ninth grade in 1957.


But they now graduate (at least those the graduate) have good self esteem

everyone graduates. Stupid or not. No dummy left behind, remember?

Q: What do you call a guy who leaves med school with a D- grade level?

A: DOCTOR.


--
To use fear as the friend it is, we must retrain and reprogram ourselves...
We must persistently and convincingly tell ourselves that the fear is
here--with its gift of energy and heightened awareness--so we can do our
best and learn the most in the new situation.
Peter McWilliams, Life 101

On 2/13/2012 9:28 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/13/2012 8:39 AM, Norvin Gordon wrote:
Han wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

That cool air hitting the warm iron results in almost instant
condensation on the iron.

Generally, warm and moist air hitting a cool surface is what cuases
condensation on the cool object. Cool air hitting a warm surface does
NOT give condensation.

So, when it is zero outside and 70 inside my house with 70% humidity,
the wet stuff on my windows (inside) is NOT condensation???

Han is correct.

What you describe is the result of the warmer air inside the building
hitting the colder surface of a cold window, not the reverse.

Condensation generally happens when warm, moisture laden air hits a
cooler service.

When is the last time you saw condensation forming on a mug of hot
coffee on a cold day?


Do you remember the day you and I were working in your garage and a cold
front blew in at the end of the day. You Iron had condensation all over
it before we quit. We had to dry it off and you ended having lite rust.

On 2/13/2012 7:50 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/13/2012 7:12 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

That cool air hitting the warm iron results in almost instant
condensation on the iron.

Generally, warm and moist air hitting a cool surface is what cuases
condensation on the cool object. Cool air hitting a warm surface does NOT
give condensation.


Bull ****!

Sorry Han, To explain my response, and where I have witnessed your
second statement being not true "all of the time" is in Swingman's shop.

I understand how the condensation principal works.

BUT a few years ago Swingman and I were working in his shop, it had been
quite warm. We had a cold front blow in suddenly at the end of the day
and the temperature dropped quickly. "Heavy" Condensation formed on the
iron machine surfaces with in minutes, something we do not often see.

Why? I have no idea.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Do you remember the day you and I were working in your garage and a cold
front blew in at the end of the day. You Iron had condensation all over
it before we quit. We had to dry it off and you ended having lite rust.

Sorry, Leon. That still means the "iron" had cooled down, and the air was
warmer and more moist. Seems like the equipment was outside, cooled down,
and then was brought into a warm, humid room.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 2/13/2012 7:50 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/13/2012 7:12 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

That cool air hitting the warm iron results in almost instant
condensation on the iron.

Generally, warm and moist air hitting a cool surface is what cuases
condensation on the cool object. Cool air hitting a warm surface
does NOT give condensation.


Bull ****!

Sorry Han, To explain my response, and where I have witnessed your
second statement being not true "all of the time" is in Swingman's
shop.

I understand how the condensation principal works.

BUT a few years ago Swingman and I were working in his shop, it had
been quite warm. We had a cold front blow in suddenly at the end of
the day and the temperature dropped quickly. "Heavy" Condensation
formed on the iron machine surfaces with in minutes, something we do
not often see.

Why? I have no idea.

Did you have the windows open, it got cold (and the iron cooled down),
then you shut the windows and opened the doors to the rest of the humid,
warm house?

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 2/14/2012 6:54 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 2/13/2012 7:50 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/13/2012 7:12 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

That cool air hitting the warm iron results in almost instant
condensation on the iron.

Generally, warm and moist air hitting a cool surface is what cuases
condensation on the cool object. Cool air hitting a warm surface
does NOT give condensation.


Bull ****!

Sorry Han, To explain my response, and where I have witnessed your
second statement being not true "all of the time" is in Swingman's
shop.

I understand how the condensation principal works.

BUT a few years ago Swingman and I were working in his shop, it had
been quite warm. We had a cold front blow in suddenly at the end of
the day and the temperature dropped quickly. "Heavy" Condensation
formed on the iron machine surfaces with in minutes, something we do
not often see.

Why? I have no idea.

Did you have the windows open, it got cold (and the iron cooled down),
then you shut the windows and opened the doors to the rest of the humid,
warm house?


No windows, detached uninsulated garage, just a 16' garage door that had
been open all day and a rear side door that was open for the 3' fan to
create a breeze through the shop. At the end of the day the front blew
in and almost immediately, 10 minutes, "puddles" ow water formed on the
cast iron surfaces. I started wiping the water off of the first casulty,
;~) before Swingman noticed what was happening, he was still finishing
up with something on the TS. We both had to stop what we were doing to
wipe the surfaces off.

Now the iron might have gotten cold but this all happened in a matter of
a few minutes and the the whole shop cooled down before closing the doors.

It all was a bit freaky, I had never seen condensation form that quickly
in such a great quantity.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Do you remember the day you and I were working in your garage and a cold
front blew in at the end of the day. You Iron had condensation all over
it before we quit. We had to dry it off and you ended having lite rust.

Yep, I remember the incident, well. LOL. It was at Ruskin, and I remember
the cause was opening the shop door, when it had been cooler the day
before, onto a foggy, relatively warmer morning. I also remember being
****ed because I had not covered the tools the night before with those
special covers that I have for that exact situation, a weather report that
calls for much warmer, foggy conditions the next morning.

--
www.ewoodshop.com

On 2/14/2012 6:52 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Do you remember the day you and I were working in your garage and a cold
front blew in at the end of the day. You Iron had condensation all over
it before we quit. We had to dry it off and you ended having lite rust.

Sorry, Leon. That still means the "iron" had cooled down, and the air was
warmer and more moist. Seems like the equipment was outside, cooled down,
and then was brought into a warm, humid room.



I agree Han this does not sound right but the equipment was in side the
shop, it never comes outside. The inside temperature was the outside
temperature. All doors wide open all day even when the front blew in.

Basically the temperature in the shop dropped before the equipment
cooled down.

There was something strange going on.

His 16' door which was open faced south. The colder air did not
directly enter the shop except through the small back side door. And
the iron did not feel cool when I was wiping it down, IIRC. We
literally watched this going on just before we quit for the day.


Now may be I have my seasons wrong, but the 16' was wide open all day
and we normally don't stay cool/cold all day long and have a warm front
change the temperature that fast. Our cold fronts bring a much more
sudden and drastic temperature change than out warm fronts do, and to
state again, this all happened with in a matter of a few minutes.

On 2/14/2012 7:28 AM, Swingman wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Do you remember the day you and I were working in your garage and a cold
front blew in at the end of the day. You Iron had condensation all over
it before we quit. We had to dry it off and you ended having lite rust.

Yep, I remember the incident, well. LOL. It was at Ruskin, and I remember
the cause was opening the shop door, when it had been cooler the day
before, onto a foggy, relatively warmer morning. I also remember being
****ed because I had not covered the tools the night before with those
special covers that I have for that exact situation, a weather report that
calls for much warmer, foggy conditions the next morning.


That all happened at the end of the day, you and I had been working
together. You stayed late to finish drying and protecting the surfaces.
And IIRC you bought the covers after that when I pointed to the HTC
clearance sale.

On 2/14/2012 7:34 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/14/2012 7:28 AM, Swingman wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Do you remember the day you and I were working in your garage and a cold
front blew in at the end of the day. You Iron had condensation all over
it before we quit. We had to dry it off and you ended having lite rust.

Yep, I remember the incident, well. LOL. It was at Ruskin, and I remember
the cause was opening the shop door, when it had been cooler the day
before, onto a foggy, relatively warmer morning. I also remember being
****ed because I had not covered the tools the night before with those
special covers that I have for that exact situation, a weather report
that
calls for much warmer, foggy conditions the next morning.


That all happened at the end of the day, you and I had been working
together. You stayed late to finish drying and protecting the surfaces.
And IIRC you bought the covers after that when I pointed to the HTC
clearance sale.

Maybe you had that happen again but IIRC you had no such covers when we
saw it happen at the end of the day.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
On 2/14/2012 6:54 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 2/13/2012 7:50 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/13/2012 7:12 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

That cool air hitting the warm iron results in almost instant
condensation on the iron.

Generally, warm and moist air hitting a cool surface is what cuases
condensation on the cool object. Cool air hitting a warm surface
does NOT give condensation.


Bull ****!

Sorry Han, To explain my response, and where I have witnessed your
second statement being not true "all of the time" is in Swingman's
shop.

I understand how the condensation principal works.

BUT a few years ago Swingman and I were working in his shop, it had
been quite warm. We had a cold front blow in suddenly at the end of
the day and the temperature dropped quickly. "Heavy" Condensation
formed on the iron machine surfaces with in minutes, something we do
not often see.

Why? I have no idea.

Did you have the windows open, it got cold (and the iron cooled down),
then you shut the windows and opened the doors to the rest of the humid,
warm house?


No windows, detached uninsulated garage, just a 16' garage door that had
been open all day and a rear side door that was open for the 3' fan to
create a breeze through the shop. At the end of the day the front blew
in and almost immediately, 10 minutes, "puddles" ow water formed on the
cast iron surfaces. I started wiping the water off of the first casulty,
;~) before Swingman noticed what was happening, he was still finishing up
with something on the TS. We both had to stop what we were doing to wipe the surfaces off.

Now the iron might have gotten cold but this all happened in a matter of
a few minutes and the the whole shop cooled down before closing the doors.

It all was a bit freaky, I had never seen condensation form that quickly
in such a great quantity.

Wow. All I can say is this must be another example of why eyewitness
testimony is often considered suspect ... two totally different
recollections.

--
www.ewoodshop.com

On 2/14/2012 7:46 AM, Swingman wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
On 2/14/2012 6:54 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 2/13/2012 7:50 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/13/2012 7:12 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

That cool air hitting the warm iron results in almost instant
condensation on the iron.

Generally, warm and moist air hitting a cool surface is what cuases
condensation on the cool object. Cool air hitting a warm surface
does NOT give condensation.


Bull ****!

Sorry Han, To explain my response, and where I have witnessed your
second statement being not true "all of the time" is in Swingman's
shop.

I understand how the condensation principal works.

BUT a few years ago Swingman and I were working in his shop, it had
been quite warm. We had a cold front blow in suddenly at the end of
the day and the temperature dropped quickly. "Heavy" Condensation
formed on the iron machine surfaces with in minutes, something we do
not often see.

Why? I have no idea.

Did you have the windows open, it got cold (and the iron cooled down),
then you shut the windows and opened the doors to the rest of the humid,
warm house?


No windows, detached uninsulated garage, just a 16' garage door that had
been open all day and a rear side door that was open for the 3' fan to
create a breeze through the shop. At the end of the day the front blew
in and almost immediately, 10 minutes, "puddles" ow water formed on the
cast iron surfaces. I started wiping the water off of the first casulty,
;~) before Swingman noticed what was happening, he was still finishing up
with something on the TS. We both had to stop what we were doing to wipe the surfaces off.

Now the iron might have gotten cold but this all happened in a matter of
a few minutes and the the whole shop cooled down before closing the doors.

It all was a bit freaky, I had never seen condensation form that quickly
in such a great quantity.

Wow. All I can say is this must be another example of why eyewitness
testimony is often considered suspect ... two totally different
recollections.


Perhaps but do you remember me being there? I remember you staying
later, after I left for the day, to apply WD40. I distinctly remember
the band saw being the first thing I noticed, then the jointer.
And Yeah I know cold surface warm humid air. But I am pretty sure
that because the doors were open all day long it was not cold in the
shop, and then the front blew in and we had a drop what you are doing,
problem to address.

Oh well..... LOL

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Maybe you had that happen again but IIRC you had no such covers when we
saw it happen at the end of the day.

Hey guys, it's Valentine's day, and I love you both grin!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Swingman wrote:


Wow. All I can say is this must be another example of why eyewitness
testimony is often considered suspect ... two totally different
recollections.

What is this recollection thing of which you speak...?

--

-Mike-