Concerned that I was getting lazy, I went out and measured my ceiling
joists and other structure carefully and spent my evening with SketchUp!

I am concerned as to how many new 48" (10" wraparound) fixtures to add.
Please see my two jpeg's:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Putting another light above my virtual bench may make good sense.
However, If I regard my bench area as 10' by 8', then my new pics at my
web site already demonstrate 80 ft^2/6 bulbs = 13.3 ft^2 per bulb!
Don't want to blast my self out. I was thinking of using 32W, 5000K or
6000K fluorescent bulbs.

I would like to try to optimize my lighting? As drawn, the distances of
the lights from the walls are 36" and 24" respectively. Assume the
walls will be white (for decent reflectivity). The floor is concrete.
I'm going to keep the light in front of the subpanel 36" away from it to
satisfy relevant codes (regarding a "free workspace").

I never did this before and I hope to do it right the first time. What
would you change?

Thanks,
Bill

Bill wrote:


I would like to try to optimize my lighting? As drawn, the distances
of the lights from the walls are 36" and 24" respectively. Assume the
walls will be white (for decent reflectivity). The floor is concrete.
I'm going to keep the light in front of the subpanel 36" away from it
to satisfy relevant codes (regarding a "free workspace").


You don't need to worry about your shop lights being inside of the 36"
workspace around your panel. That workspace defines unobstructed floor and
wall space.

--

-Mike-

In article , says...

Concerned that I was getting lazy, I went out and measured my ceiling
joists and other structure carefully and spent my evening with SketchUp!

I am concerned as to how many new 48" (10" wraparound) fixtures to add.
Please see my two jpeg's:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Putting another light above my virtual bench may make good sense.
However, If I regard my bench area as 10' by 8', then my new pics at my
web site already demonstrate 80 ft^2/6 bulbs = 13.3 ft^2 per bulb!
Don't want to blast my self out. I was thinking of using 32W, 5000K or
6000K fluorescent bulbs.

I would like to try to optimize my lighting? As drawn, the distances of
the lights from the walls are 36" and 24" respectively. Assume the
walls will be white (for decent reflectivity). The floor is concrete.
I'm going to keep the light in front of the subpanel 36" away from it to
satisfy relevant codes (regarding a "free workspace").

There should be a light positioned to illuminate the guts of the panel--
for some reason I was under the impression that there was a code
requirement for that but it might be my mind playing tricks on me.

The "free workspace" requirement doesn't mean there can't be anything in
the ceiling--the idea is that there has to be room for a guy working on
the panel to stand in front of it and work on it without being in an
awkward posture.

I never did this before and I hope to do it right the first time. What
would you change?

Just a suggestion but check your local library and see if they have or
can get for you either the "IES Lighting Handbook" or "Time Saver
Standards for Architectural Design", or check the used book sites and
see if you can find older copies for cheap.

"Time Saver Standards for Architectural Design" has a good section on
lighting design, with illumination patterns for many common types of
fixture, the required illumination levels for a wide range of tasks, and
details of calculation methods. The IES Handbook has that and a
tremendous lot more--it's the "bible" of the lighting industry.

If you're dealing with straight tube fluorescents then any edition of
either published in the last 30 years or so should have what you need.

If I have time over the weekend and can find my copy of Time Saver
Standards I'll see if I can work out the numbers for you, but no
promises.

In article , Bill
wrote:
I would like to try to optimize my lighting? As drawn, the distances of
the lights from the walls are 36" and 24" respectively. Assume the
walls will be white (for decent reflectivity). The floor is concrete.
I'm going to keep the light in front of the subpanel 36" away from it to
satisfy relevant codes (regarding a "free workspace").

The longer workbench is in the space that should be kept clear. The
light is not a problem (actually, a light at the panel is a requirement,
as is an outlet at the panel - both to make working on the panel
civilized.)

Put the bench lights on a different switch, and more over the bench (and
move the bench to a different wall if it's not on wheels.) You can have
just those on for bench work, and just the others on for non-bench-work,
and both on for jobs that go back and forth. Or get more specific and
provide a light for each machine, with a switch for it, and turn it on
when working on that machine (depends how much you care about saving
electricity .vs. some added cost and complexity (not much) in wiring).
Not as much use if the shop is cold and the florescent lights take a
long time to come to full brightness. The light for the tablesaw should
be high-frequency ballast and/or include at least one incandescent
(often a spot pointed at the blade) that does not "flicker", to avoid
the "strobe effect" where the blade seems to stand still as it slows
down (while still spinning.)

People go with all sorts of options, and work under all sorts of
conditions. As you get older, you'll want more light to maintain acuity
as your eyes go to crap, unless you got really lucky in the eye lottery.
"Blasting yourself out" is almost impossible, given the amount of light
in full sun .vs. what we achieve with any indoor lighting. Providing
appropriate light for the task at hand is more like it (ie, if you are
not doing any fiddly work away from bench or machines, less light is
appropriate there, particularly if it's something like lumber storage -
OTOH, if you are finishing large projects away from the bench, you'll
want lights you can turn on for that process, at least.)

If you have any "shop lights" around the house, they are easy to hang
and move and get an idea of where you are putting permanent fixtures.
Sometimes real life is better than any computer model you can reasonably
expect to find for free.

Paint the floor white. It won't stay pristine white, but it will reflect
more light than a gray or red floor, and paint keeps the concrete dust
down.

This is what - 20 x 25 x 8 ft high? I'd guesstimate that you'd want at
least 6 fixtures for general work lighting, and more on the bench.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 02:34:08 -0500, Bill wrote:

Concerned that I was getting lazy, I went out and measured my ceiling
joists and other structure carefully and spent my evening with SketchUp!

I am concerned as to how many new 48" (10" wraparound) fixtures to add.

Are you -sure- you want wraparound covers (which are VERY good
collectors of dust) in your shop? And 9 (or 12 if you put in the
extra switching for them.)


Please see my two jpeg's:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Putting another light above my virtual bench may make good sense.
However, If I regard my bench area as 10' by 8', then my new pics at my
web site already demonstrate 80 ft^2/6 bulbs = 13.3 ft^2 per bulb!
Don't want to blast my self out. I was thinking of using 32W, 5000K or
6000K fluorescent bulbs.

The 5000K have a better CRI, but either is good in the shop. Check
the lumen output of the bulbs, too. They vary widely between brands.


I would like to try to optimize my lighting? As drawn, the distances of
the lights from the walls are 36" and 24" respectively. Assume the
walls will be white (for decent reflectivity). The floor is concrete.
I'm going to keep the light in front of the subpanel 36" away from it to
satisfy relevant codes (regarding a "free workspace").

My take on the NEC code leads me to define the workspace as the area
which extends from the top of the panel (or 6'6" min) to the floor,
and allowing a (large) person to get right up to the panel from the
front. I wouldn't build anything within a foot of either side of the
panel, but I wouldn't hesitate to roll something movable (router
station, unplugged welder?) into the access space. I don't read the
code as mentioning overhead access, but. What (as I suggested
earlier) did your local code inspector say about it? He's "god" for
all things electrical in your area and what any of us thinks has no
meaning there if he says something different.


I never did this before and I hope to do it right the first time. What
would you change?

Do yourself a favor and do temporary hangings of the lights to see for
yourself what light level you're comfortable with. _Then_ hang and
wire them permanently.

I'd hang them the other direction, 3 per column in 3 columns, 4'
between bulbs either way, centered in the room. (Lew would probably
want them every 2' for a total of 40 fixtures or so. Get checked for
cataracts, Lew! Lew's scenario would blow you out of the shop,
requiring #5 welding goggles to see through the glare.

Task lighting on each machine (where required) and over the benches
(if necessary) will fill in the gaps.

P.S: I forgot to ask if you put quad outlets everywhere. There's
always a third cord to go in whatever outlet you're near, y'know.

--
Happiness comes of the capacity to feel deeply, to enjoy
simply, to think freely, to risk life, to be needed.
-- Storm Jameson

On 11/29/2010 8:50 AM, Larry Kraus wrote:


Try to keep your bench lighting between you and the wall to prevent
shadows when leaning over your work.

That's a really good thought. Thank you. That may be a good argument
for an additional light "between me and the wall".

Bill

On 11/29/2010 8:08 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


I would like to try to optimize my lighting? As drawn, the distances
of the lights from the walls are 36" and 24" respectively. Assume the
walls will be white (for decent reflectivity). The floor is concrete.
I'm going to keep the light in front of the subpanel 36" away from it
to satisfy relevant codes (regarding a "free workspace").


You don't need to worry about your shop lights being inside of the 36"
workspace around your panel. That workspace defines unobstructed floor and
wall space.

That's helpful. Thank you. I thought I read "36" in front of ...and up
to the ceiling", but a light snug to the ceiling is not really an
obstruction (to me and you). I'll double-check.

Bill

Ecnerwal wrote:
In ,
wrote:
I would like to try to optimize my lighting? As drawn, the distances of
the lights from the walls are 36" and 24" respectively. Assume the
walls will be white (for decent reflectivity). The floor is concrete.
I'm going to keep the light in front of the subpanel 36" away from it to
satisfy relevant codes (regarding a "free workspace").

The longer workbench is in the space that should be kept clear. The
light is not a problem (actually, a light at the panel is a requirement,
as is an outlet at the panel - both to make working on the panel
civilized.)

Put the bench lights on a different switch, and more over the bench (and
move the bench to a different wall if it's not on wheels.) You can have
just those on for bench work, and just the others on for non-bench-work,
and both on for jobs that go back and forth. Or get more specific and
provide a light for each machine, with a switch for it, and turn it on
when working on that machine (depends how much you care about saving
electricity .vs. some added cost and complexity (not much) in wiring).
Not as much use if the shop is cold and the florescent lights take a
long time to come to full brightness. The light for the tablesaw should
be high-frequency ballast and/or include at least one incandescent
(often a spot pointed at the blade) that does not "flicker", to avoid
the "strobe effect" where the blade seems to stand still as it slows
down (while still spinning.)

People go with all sorts of options, and work under all sorts of
conditions. As you get older, you'll want more light to maintain acuity
as your eyes go to crap, unless you got really lucky in the eye lottery.
"Blasting yourself out" is almost impossible, given the amount of light
in full sun .vs. what we achieve with any indoor lighting. Providing
appropriate light for the task at hand is more like it (ie, if you are
not doing any fiddly work away from bench or machines, less light is
appropriate there, particularly if it's something like lumber storage -
OTOH, if you are finishing large projects away from the bench, you'll
want lights you can turn on for that process, at least.)

If you have any "shop lights" around the house, they are easy to hang
and move and get an idea of where you are putting permanent fixtures.
Sometimes real life is better than any computer model you can reasonably
expect to find for free.

Paint the floor white. It won't stay pristine white, but it will reflect
more light than a gray or red floor, and paint keeps the concrete dust
down.

This is what - 20 x 25 x 8 ft high? I'd guesstimate that you'd want at
least 6 fixtures for general work lighting, and more on the bench.

Thank you. The replies to my original post put new (and worthwhile)
ideas in my head:

1) Shadows
2) Mock-up lighting for testing purposes
3) Maybe I don't need "wrap-arounds" as much as I thought I did (they
are pretty though).
4) Further switch possibilities. BTW, my existing two lights are powered
by a separate panel (my main panel) which I like. But I only installed
one extra light switch this summer! Ahhhhh! There's more than one way to
switch a light though...I'm not ready to tear my new drywall down yet.
5)Further lighting references, etc.!

At least this time around, I know 6000K is not necessarily "Brighter
Than" 5000K! I'm getting there. : )

Bill

Nice drawing using skethup. Where did you get the bandsaw ,workbench and
tablesaw? Did you make them yourself or download a library?

As far as lights, I agree with quartering your layout.

I have boxes that have 3 bulbs. I put four in my hand tool area, None
directly over the bench.
I put them offset to both sides .. to eliminate shadows. I also use
swing lights on all my benches. I find it more helpful to have direct
light where I need it. I find these at garage sales and fix them up.
Sometimes you get a brand new one for $1... All my tools have mounts..
My sanding station, router table, workbench, sanders, scroll saw,

I try to avoid direct overhead lighting knowing my head will block out
the light when bending over. My tablesaw has 2 overhead boxes, one on
each side of the blade and toward the outfeed table to avoid my own shadow.



On 11/29/2010 2:34 AM, Bill wrote:
Concerned that I was getting lazy, I went out and measured my ceiling
joists and other structure carefully and spent my evening with SketchUp!

I am concerned as to how many new 48" (10" wraparound) fixtures to add.
Please see my two jpeg's:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Putting another light above my virtual bench may make good sense.
However, If I regard my bench area as 10' by 8', then my new pics at my
web site already demonstrate 80 ft^2/6 bulbs = 13.3 ft^2 per bulb! Don't
want to blast my self out. I was thinking of using 32W, 5000K or 6000K
fluorescent bulbs.

I would like to try to optimize my lighting? As drawn, the distances of
the lights from the walls are 36" and 24" respectively. Assume the walls
will be white (for decent reflectivity). The floor is concrete. I'm
going to keep the light in front of the subpanel 36" away from it to
satisfy relevant codes (regarding a "free workspace").

I never did this before and I hope to do it right the first time. What
would you change?

Thanks,
Bill

Stuart wrote:
In ,
wrote:
Don't want to blast my self out.

Hmmm, don't think that's likely :-)

I have a 16ft x 8ft garage as my workshop, main lighting is four 48", 58W
fluorescent fittings running lengthwise. Walls and ceiling are all painted
white. In addition there's a 100W incandescent spot in an adjustable
fitting aimed at my vice.

The other end of the bench there's a large circular, illuminated,
magnifying lamp on an "anglepoise" type arrangement. Apart from it's use
when critical marking out (metalwork mainly) when raised up it can provide
more general "Task lighting". This has a "G" clamp like fixing and can be
moved from its present position, clamped to the end of the bench towards
the back.

Fixed to the underside of the 12" wide shelf, which runs the full length
of the wall, over the bench, at this same end of the bench, is a 20W
halogen spotlight in an adjustable fitting. This can either be positioned
to throw light forward onto the end of the bench or swivelled through 90
deg to direct light onto my X1 milling machine.

If I turn round from facing my bench, I find myself facing my C3 minilathe
against the other wall, which has a 60W incandescent spotlight in an
anglepoise fitting clamped to the tailstock end of its bench. This lamp,
when rotated through 180 deg will throw additional light on my router
table.

In addition to all this I have a 60W incandescent spot in a "lead lamp".
This has a strong spring clip and can be used anywhere in the shop, though
it is normally positioned to aim light at the table of my drill press -
which is next to my mill and also throws some light on that.

In your situation, I'd certainly be adding a lot more 4ft fluorescents

I enjoyed the "tour" of your shop! From your post, and others, it's
apparent that "systems" of lighting evolve. I don't want to be an energy
hog, so I'd prefer lighting systems that I can use in a discretionary
way (compared to ::INSTANT-ON:. I think I'll begin by illuminating
what I regard as the main part of my work area and take it from there.
I intend to power the lights using ordinary plugs into new 2 duplex
outlets (which will be subservient to 1 wall switch), so my
configuration will be reasonably adjustable. Some of my virtual
furnishings (i.e. cabinet and workbenches) are waiting to be built!

It wasn't until today did I really thought of lighting *systems* as
such. At some point though, one has to make a few trade-offs to get
some work done! No doubt, there are more systems ahead (DC, HVLP,
plumbing, ...). Using Hemmingway's words, I just want "a clean
well-lighted place...". I'm glad to see that my h.s. literature
class is finally paying a dividend!

Bill

tiredofspam wrote:
Nice drawing using skethup. Where did you get the bandsaw ,workbench and
tablesaw? Did you make them yourself or download a library?

Thank you. I downloaded the drillpress, bandsaw and tablesaw models
from the SketchUP 3D Warehouse. I modeled the benches after looking at a
design published by FWW which was presented by Garrett Hack in "Tools &
Shops" (Winter 2009). His bench also has a tool-trough, and other
niceties. I downloaded the vises from 3D Warehouse.




As far as lights, I agree with quartering your layout.

I have boxes that have 3 bulbs. I put four in my hand tool area, None
directly over the bench.
I put them offset to both sides .. to eliminate shadows.

Hmm...At this point I was thinking of putting ceiling lights in front of
me and behind me, to eliminate shadows. Same idea? Perhaps I would be
wasting light illuminating the wall.

I will think more about "quartering" my layout, but I have a garage door
over 1/3 of the space (up to the existing lights), an overhead access
door, and a "medium traffic route" used to help unload groceries, that
doesn't require further illumination. Your comments below about direct
lighting are well-taken.

Thanks,
Bill


I also use
swing lights on all my benches. I find it more helpful to have direct
light where I need it. I find these at garage sales and fix them up.
Sometimes you get a brand new one for $1... All my tools have mounts..
My sanding station, router table, workbench, sanders, scroll saw,

I try to avoid direct overhead lighting knowing my head will block out
the light when bending over. My tablesaw has 2 overhead boxes, one on
each side of the blade and toward the outfeed table to avoid my own shadow.



On 11/29/2010 2:34 AM, Bill wrote:
Concerned that I was getting lazy, I went out and measured my ceiling
joists and other structure carefully and spent my evening with SketchUp!

I am concerned as to how many new 48" (10" wraparound) fixtures to add.
Please see my two jpeg's:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Putting another light above my virtual bench may make good sense.
However, If I regard my bench area as 10' by 8', then my new pics at my
web site already demonstrate 80 ft^2/6 bulbs = 13.3 ft^2 per bulb! Don't
want to blast my self out. I was thinking of using 32W, 5000K or 6000K
fluorescent bulbs.

I would like to try to optimize my lighting? As drawn, the distances of
the lights from the walls are 36" and 24" respectively. Assume the walls
will be white (for decent reflectivity). The floor is concrete. I'm
going to keep the light in front of the subpanel 36" away from it to
satisfy relevant codes (regarding a "free workspace").

I never did this before and I hope to do it right the first time. What
would you change?

Thanks,
Bill

On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 18:26:45 -0500, Bill wrote:

Ecnerwal wrote:
In ,
wrote:
I would like to try to optimize my lighting? As drawn, the distances of
the lights from the walls are 36" and 24" respectively. Assume the
walls will be white (for decent reflectivity). The floor is concrete.
I'm going to keep the light in front of the subpanel 36" away from it to
satisfy relevant codes (regarding a "free workspace").

The longer workbench is in the space that should be kept clear. The
light is not a problem (actually, a light at the panel is a requirement,
as is an outlet at the panel - both to make working on the panel
civilized.)

Put the bench lights on a different switch, and more over the bench (and
move the bench to a different wall if it's not on wheels.) You can have
just those on for bench work, and just the others on for non-bench-work,
and both on for jobs that go back and forth. Or get more specific and
provide a light for each machine, with a switch for it, and turn it on
when working on that machine (depends how much you care about saving
electricity .vs. some added cost and complexity (not much) in wiring).
Not as much use if the shop is cold and the florescent lights take a
long time to come to full brightness. The light for the tablesaw should
be high-frequency ballast and/or include at least one incandescent
(often a spot pointed at the blade) that does not "flicker", to avoid
the "strobe effect" where the blade seems to stand still as it slows
down (while still spinning.)

People go with all sorts of options, and work under all sorts of
conditions. As you get older, you'll want more light to maintain acuity
as your eyes go to crap, unless you got really lucky in the eye lottery.
"Blasting yourself out" is almost impossible, given the amount of light
in full sun .vs. what we achieve with any indoor lighting. Providing
appropriate light for the task at hand is more like it (ie, if you are
not doing any fiddly work away from bench or machines, less light is
appropriate there, particularly if it's something like lumber storage -
OTOH, if you are finishing large projects away from the bench, you'll
want lights you can turn on for that process, at least.)

If you have any "shop lights" around the house, they are easy to hang
and move and get an idea of where you are putting permanent fixtures.
Sometimes real life is better than any computer model you can reasonably
expect to find for free.

Paint the floor white. It won't stay pristine white, but it will reflect
more light than a gray or red floor, and paint keeps the concrete dust
down.

This is what - 20 x 25 x 8 ft high? I'd guesstimate that you'd want at
least 6 fixtures for general work lighting, and more on the bench.

Thank you. The replies to my original post put new (and worthwhile)
ideas in my head:

1) Shadows

With the lights running perpendicular to the benches, that'll be less
of a problem, too.


2) Mock-up lighting for testing purposes

Not mockup, but temporary installations.


3) Maybe I don't need "wrap-arounds" as much as I thought I did (they
are pretty though).

You'll waste less time replacing bulbs down the road if you don't have
them on there, too. And you can dust bulbs when they're open.


4) Further switch possibilities. BTW, my existing two lights are powered
by a separate panel (my main panel) which I like. But I only installed
one extra light switch this summer! Ahhhhh! There's more than one way to
switch a light though...I'm not ready to tear my new drywall down yet.

This is a good time to learn how to successfully install a patch into
a sheet of drywall.


5)Further lighting references, etc.!

At least this time around, I know 6000K is not necessarily "Brighter
Than" 5000K! I'm getting there. : )

Hell, Bill. In just six to ten more months, you'll likely have the
answer!

--
Happiness comes of the capacity to feel deeply, to enjoy
simply, to think freely, to risk life, to be needed.
-- Storm Jameson

On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 02:34:08 -0500, Bill wrote:

Concerned that I was getting lazy, I went out and measured my ceiling
joists and other structure carefully and spent my evening with SketchUp!

I am concerned as to how many new 48" (10" wraparound) fixtures to add.
Please see my two jpeg's:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Putting another light above my virtual bench may make good sense.
However, If I regard my bench area as 10' by 8', then my new pics at my
web site already demonstrate 80 ft^2/6 bulbs = 13.3 ft^2 per bulb!
Don't want to blast my self out. I was thinking of using 32W, 5000K or
6000K fluorescent bulbs.

I would like to try to optimize my lighting? As drawn, the distances of
the lights from the walls are 36" and 24" respectively. Assume the
walls will be white (for decent reflectivity). The floor is concrete.
I'm going to keep the light in front of the subpanel 36" away from it to
satisfy relevant codes (regarding a "free workspace").

I never did this before and I hope to do it right the first time. What
would you change?

Thanks,
Bill

Well task lighting is nice but it doesn't make for a nice work
environment. Get a decent light level for the entire shop then take
on the task lighting.

Mike M

On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:04:56 -0800, Mike M
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 02:34:08 -0500, Bill wrote:

Concerned that I was getting lazy, I went out and measured my ceiling
joists and other structure carefully and spent my evening with SketchUp!

I am concerned as to how many new 48" (10" wraparound) fixtures to add.
Please see my two jpeg's:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Putting another light above my virtual bench may make good sense.
However, If I regard my bench area as 10' by 8', then my new pics at my
web site already demonstrate 80 ft^2/6 bulbs = 13.3 ft^2 per bulb!
Don't want to blast my self out. I was thinking of using 32W, 5000K or
6000K fluorescent bulbs.

I would like to try to optimize my lighting? As drawn, the distances of
the lights from the walls are 36" and 24" respectively. Assume the
walls will be white (for decent reflectivity). The floor is concrete.
I'm going to keep the light in front of the subpanel 36" away from it to
satisfy relevant codes (regarding a "free workspace").

I never did this before and I hope to do it right the first time. What
would you change?

Thanks,
Bill

Well task lighting is nice but it doesn't make for a nice work
environment. Get a decent light level for the entire shop then take
on the task lighting.

Don't you feel that NINE dual 4' fluors would decently light up that
20x25' shop space? If not, fall in behind Lew. I'm doing OK with 5
of 'em in a 20x24' double car shop (w/ attached home.)

--
Happiness comes of the capacity to feel deeply, to enjoy
simply, to think freely, to risk life, to be needed.
-- Storm Jameson

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:04:56 -0800, Mike M
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 02:34:08 -0500, wrote:

Concerned that I was getting lazy, I went out and measured my ceiling
joists and other structure carefully and spent my evening with SketchUp!

I am concerned as to how many new 48" (10" wraparound) fixtures to add.
Please see my two jpeg's:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Putting another light above my virtual bench may make good sense.
However, If I regard my bench area as 10' by 8', then my new pics at my
web site already demonstrate 80 ft^2/6 bulbs = 13.3 ft^2 per bulb!
Don't want to blast my self out. I was thinking of using 32W, 5000K or
6000K fluorescent bulbs.

I would like to try to optimize my lighting? As drawn, the distances of
the lights from the walls are 36" and 24" respectively. Assume the
walls will be white (for decent reflectivity). The floor is concrete.
I'm going to keep the light in front of the subpanel 36" away from it to
satisfy relevant codes (regarding a "free workspace").

I never did this before and I hope to do it right the first time. What
would you change?

Thanks,
Bill

Well task lighting is nice but it doesn't make for a nice work
environment. Get a decent light level for the entire shop then take
on the task lighting.

Don't you feel that NINE dual 4' fluors would decently light up that
20x25' shop space? If not, fall in behind Lew. I'm doing OK with 5
of 'em in a 20x24' double car shop (w/ attached home.)

Mine is 20'x 24' too. Almost exactly 1/2 of the ceiling is basically
occupied by the electric "garage door". Although putting lights above
it may be possible, I am not interested in considering it at this time.
I'll do some more modeling in a few days based upon recent input folks
have generously provided to me.

Good thoughtful comments on the task lighting above. Not exactly sure
how to take them into consideration, but doing so seems like the right
thing to do. Still homework to do on this..more modeling. One good
thing that is the price of my fixtures may have went down since I set
aside the deluxe wrap-arounds so I should be able to buy a few more.

Bill

Bill wrote in :

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:04:56 -0800, Mike M
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 02:34:08 -0500, wrote:

Concerned that I was getting lazy, I went out and measured my
ceiling joists and other structure carefully and spent my evening
with SketchUp!

I am concerned as to how many new 48" (10" wraparound) fixtures to
add. Please see my two jpeg's:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Putting another light above my virtual bench may make good sense.
However, If I regard my bench area as 10' by 8', then my new pics
at my web site already demonstrate 80 ft^2/6 bulbs = 13.3 ft^2 per
bulb! Don't want to blast my self out. I was thinking of using
32W, 5000K or 6000K fluorescent bulbs.

I would like to try to optimize my lighting? As drawn, the
distances of the lights from the walls are 36" and 24"
respectively. Assume the walls will be white (for decent
reflectivity). The floor is concrete. I'm going to keep the light
in front of the subpanel 36" away from it to satisfy relevant codes
(regarding a "free workspace").

I never did this before and I hope to do it right the first time.
What would you change?

Thanks,
Bill

Well task lighting is nice but it doesn't make for a nice work
environment. Get a decent light level for the entire shop then take
on the task lighting.

Don't you feel that NINE dual 4' fluors would decently light up that
20x25' shop space? If not, fall in behind Lew. I'm doing OK with 5
of 'em in a 20x24' double car shop (w/ attached home.)

Mine is 20'x 24' too. Almost exactly 1/2 of the ceiling is basically
occupied by the electric "garage door". Although putting lights above
it may be possible, I am not interested in considering it at this
time.
I'll do some more modeling in a few days based upon recent input
folks
have generously provided to me.

Good thoughtful comments on the task lighting above. Not exactly sure
how to take them into consideration, but doing so seems like the right
thing to do. Still homework to do on this..more modeling. One good
thing that is the price of my fixtures may have went down since I set
aside the deluxe wrap-arounds so I should be able to buy a few more.

Bill


Bill,

I have the same situation in my garage/shop with the overhead door.
During the day with the garage door open I get plenty of light through
the opening. But at night and when it is too cool outside to keep the
door open, I have two 2-light 48" florescents over where the door opens.
Sure allows me more room to work with good lighting. Just a thought.
YMMV.

Steve

In article ,
Bill wrote:
I enjoyed the "tour" of your shop! From your post, and others, it's
apparent that "systems" of lighting evolve. I don't want to be an energy
hog, so I'd prefer lighting systems that I can use in a discretionary
way (compared to ::INSTANT-ON:.

Well, in my case, only the fluorescents are normally switched on, all the
other lights have individual, local, switches and are used as and when
needed. The two fixed spotlights I mentioned are ultimately controlled by
the main lighting switch but the anglepoise lamps are all plugged into
wall sockets.

I think I'll begin by illuminating what I regard as the main part of my
work area and take it from there. I intend to power the lights using
ordinary plugs into new 2 duplex outlets (which will be subservient to
1 wall switch), so my configuration will be reasonably adjustable.

Ah yes, outlets, you'll need lots of those - always more than you think.
In addition to the ones round the wall I have several fixed to the ceiling
down the centre which are useful for portable power tools. If you can
reach them, these would be useful in your situation as you have a bigger
area to cover and parts would be further from the wall requiring long
leads which you could trip over.

--
Stuart Winsor

Midland RISC OS show - Sat July 9th 2011

In article ,
Stuart wrote:

In addition to the ones round the wall I have several fixed to the ceiling
down the centre which are useful for portable power tools. If you can
reach them, these would be useful in your situation as you have a bigger
area to cover and parts would be further from the wall requiring long
leads which you could trip over.

And if you can't reach them, you hang cords (with proper strain reliefs)
that are higher than your head, but in reach of your arms. Very useful.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 01:56:22 -0500, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:04:56 -0800, Mike M wrote:

Well task lighting is nice but it doesn't make for a nice work
environment. Get a decent light level for the entire shop then take
on the task lighting.

Don't you feel that NINE dual 4' fluors would decently light up that
20x25' shop space? If not, fall in behind Lew. I'm doing OK with 5
of 'em in a 20x24' double car shop (w/ attached home.)

Mine is 20'x 24' too. Almost exactly 1/2 of the ceiling is basically
occupied by the electric "garage door". Although putting lights above
it may be possible, I am not interested in considering it at this time.
I'll do some more modeling in a few days based upon recent input folks
have generously provided to me.

OMG, don't even think about NOT putting lights above the door, Bill!
It will be closed 99% of the time (keeping noise from your neighbors
if nothing else) and you'll want that light without heat, cold, or
gusts of wind, on dark days, early in the morning (layout/glueups and
assembly only?), and after sundown.

Ayup, it's time to start cuttin' into that drywall if you didn't wire
for the entire ceiling. Add that switch while you're at it. 3 rows of
3 fixtures with 2 rows of 2 in between them, switched for even and odd
rows. 3' spacing between rows instead of 4', or go 2' from walls and
keep the 4' row spacing.

---- ---- ----
---- ---- (door side)
---- ---- ----
---- ----
---- ---- ----

It's closer to Lew's modeling (way too much, IMHO) but it's switchable
to avoid the need for sunglasses. Pure white EGGSHELL paint is the
perfect mix for reflection without glare or thrown shadows.


Good thoughtful comments on the task lighting above. Not exactly sure
how to take them into consideration, but doing so seems like the right
thing to do. Still homework to do on this..more modeling. One good
thing that is the price of my fixtures may have went down since I set
aside the deluxe wrap-arounds so I should be able to buy a few more.

You'll intuitively know when and where to add task lighting. Drill
presses are notoriously lacking in light, so that's one area. Mills
are, too. Extra light is needed inside a bowl when you're on a lathe,
etc. A strip light over the back of the bench can be handy for
assembly and markup. Your eyes, your call.

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

On 11/30/2010 7:57 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 01:56:22 -0500, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:04:56 -0800, Mike M wrote:

Well task lighting is nice but it doesn't make for a nice work
environment. Get a decent light level for the entire shop then take
on the task lighting.

Don't you feel that NINE dual 4' fluors would decently light up that
20x25' shop space? If not, fall in behind Lew. I'm doing OK with 5
of 'em in a 20x24' double car shop (w/ attached home.)

Mine is 20'x 24' too. Almost exactly 1/2 of the ceiling is basically
occupied by the electric "garage door". Although putting lights above
it may be possible, I am not interested in considering it at this time.
I'll do some more modeling in a few days based upon recent input folks
have generously provided to me.

OMG, don't even think about NOT putting lights above the door, Bill!
It will be closed 99% of the time (keeping noise from your neighbors
if nothing else) and you'll want that light without heat, cold, or
gusts of wind, on dark days, early in the morning (layout/glueups and
assembly only?), and after sundown.

Ed Zachary! I have lights above my door as well, and I use them all the time
(when the door is shut). Just be sure to put them on a separate switch so you
can turn them off when the door is open.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 11/30/2010 9:29 AM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 11/30/2010 7:57 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 01:56:22 -0500, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:04:56 -0800, Mike M wrote:

Well task lighting is nice but it doesn't make for a nice work
environment. Get a decent light level for the entire shop then take
on the task lighting.

Don't you feel that NINE dual 4' fluors would decently light up that
20x25' shop space? If not, fall in behind Lew. I'm doing OK with 5
of 'em in a 20x24' double car shop (w/ attached home.)

Mine is 20'x 24' too. Almost exactly 1/2 of the ceiling is basically
occupied by the electric "garage door". Although putting lights above
it may be possible, I am not interested in considering it at this time.
I'll do some more modeling in a few days based upon recent input folks
have generously provided to me.

OMG, don't even think about NOT putting lights above the door, Bill!
It will be closed 99% of the time (keeping noise from your neighbors
if nothing else) and you'll want that light without heat, cold, or
gusts of wind, on dark days, early in the morning (layout/glueups and
assembly only?), and after sundown.

Ed Zachary! I have lights above my door as well, and I use them all the
time (when the door is shut). Just be sure to put them on a separate
switch so you can turn them off when the door is open.


Does any one no of a switch that could be put in the garage door opener
that would allow the lights to work on the normal switch when the door
is down, but turn them off the lights above the door when the door goes up?

If so how would it be wired?

On 11/30/2010 2:47 AM, Steve wrote:
wrote in :

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:04:56 -0800, Mike M
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 02:34:08 -0500, wrote:

Concerned that I was getting lazy, I went out and measured my
ceiling joists and other structure carefully and spent my evening
with SketchUp!

I am concerned as to how many new 48" (10" wraparound) fixtures to
add. Please see my two jpeg's:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Putting another light above my virtual bench may make good sense.
However, If I regard my bench area as 10' by 8', then my new pics
at my web site already demonstrate 80 ft^2/6 bulbs = 13.3 ft^2 per
bulb! Don't want to blast my self out. I was thinking of using
32W, 5000K or 6000K fluorescent bulbs.

I would like to try to optimize my lighting? As drawn, the
distances of the lights from the walls are 36" and 24"
respectively. Assume the walls will be white (for decent
reflectivity). The floor is concrete. I'm going to keep the light
in front of the subpanel 36" away from it to satisfy relevant codes
(regarding a "free workspace").

I never did this before and I hope to do it right the first time.
What would you change?

Thanks,
Bill

Well task lighting is nice but it doesn't make for a nice work
environment. Get a decent light level for the entire shop then take
on the task lighting.

Don't you feel that NINE dual 4' fluors would decently light up that
20x25' shop space? If not, fall in behind Lew. I'm doing OK with 5
of 'em in a 20x24' double car shop (w/ attached home.)

Mine is 20'x 24' too. Almost exactly 1/2 of the ceiling is basically
occupied by the electric "garage door". Although putting lights above
it may be possible, I am not interested in considering it at this
time.
I'll do some more modeling in a few days based upon recent input
folks
have generously provided to me.

Good thoughtful comments on the task lighting above. Not exactly sure
how to take them into consideration, but doing so seems like the right
thing to do. Still homework to do on this..more modeling. One good
thing that is the price of my fixtures may have went down since I set
aside the deluxe wrap-arounds so I should be able to buy a few more.

Bill


Bill,

I have the same situation in my garage/shop with the overhead door.
During the day with the garage door open I get plenty of light through
the opening. But at night and when it is too cool outside to keep the
door open, I have two 2-light 48" florescents over where the door opens.
Sure allows me more room to work with good lighting. Just a thought.
YMMV.

Steve

Nice idea. Sounds like a whole nuther circuit. For me, it will have to
wait until the next round!

Thank you,
Bill

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 10:53:48 -0500, knuttle
wrote:

On 11/30/2010 9:29 AM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 11/30/2010 7:57 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 01:56:22 -0500, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:04:56 -0800, Mike M wrote:

Well task lighting is nice but it doesn't make for a nice work
environment. Get a decent light level for the entire shop then take
on the task lighting.

Don't you feel that NINE dual 4' fluors would decently light up that
20x25' shop space? If not, fall in behind Lew. I'm doing OK with 5
of 'em in a 20x24' double car shop (w/ attached home.)

Mine is 20'x 24' too. Almost exactly 1/2 of the ceiling is basically
occupied by the electric "garage door". Although putting lights above
it may be possible, I am not interested in considering it at this time.
I'll do some more modeling in a few days based upon recent input folks
have generously provided to me.

OMG, don't even think about NOT putting lights above the door, Bill!
It will be closed 99% of the time (keeping noise from your neighbors
if nothing else) and you'll want that light without heat, cold, or
gusts of wind, on dark days, early in the morning (layout/glueups and
assembly only?), and after sundown.

Ed Zachary! I have lights above my door as well, and I use them all the
time (when the door is shut). Just be sure to put them on a separate
switch so you can turn them off when the door is open.


Does any one no of a switch that could be put in the garage door opener
that would allow the lights to work on the normal switch when the door
is down, but turn them off the lights above the door when the door goes up?

If so how would it be wired?

You could rig up a relay and microswitch which will cut power to that
circuit when the door is all the way up, bumping the microswitch. Add
it after the switch so normal switch action is uninterrupted.


--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

On 11/30/2010 9:33 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Bill wrote: One good
thing that is the price of my fixtures may have went down since I set
aside the deluxe wrap-arounds so I should be able to buy a few more.

Good move. The cheapo, open, shop type fixtures work just fine.


You mean the ones with the reflectors/wings?

Bill

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 10:53:48 -0500, knuttle
wrote:

On 11/30/2010 9:29 AM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 11/30/2010 7:57 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 01:56:22 -0500, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:04:56 -0800, Mike M wrote:

Well task lighting is nice but it doesn't make for a nice work
environment. Get a decent light level for the entire shop then take
on the task lighting.

Don't you feel that NINE dual 4' fluors would decently light up that
20x25' shop space? If not, fall in behind Lew. I'm doing OK with 5
of 'em in a 20x24' double car shop (w/ attached home.)

Mine is 20'x 24' too. Almost exactly 1/2 of the ceiling is basically
occupied by the electric "garage door". Although putting lights above
it may be possible, I am not interested in considering it at this time.
I'll do some more modeling in a few days based upon recent input folks
have generously provided to me.

OMG, don't even think about NOT putting lights above the door, Bill!
It will be closed 99% of the time (keeping noise from your neighbors
if nothing else) and you'll want that light without heat, cold, or
gusts of wind, on dark days, early in the morning (layout/glueups and
assembly only?), and after sundown.

Ed Zachary! I have lights above my door as well, and I use them all the
time (when the door is shut). Just be sure to put them on a separate
switch so you can turn them off when the door is open.


Does any one no of a switch that could be put in the garage door opener
that would allow the lights to work on the normal switch when the door
is down, but turn them off the lights above the door when the door goes up?

If so how would it be wired?

I forgot to ask: How often do you want both the door open -and- the
lights on? It wouldn't seem to be necessary very often.

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

On 11/29/2010 10:16 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

At least this time around, I know 6000K is not necessarily "Brighter
Than" 5000K! I'm getting there. : )

Hell, Bill. In just six to ten more months, you'll likely have the
answer!


I year and a half ago, my wife and I moved into our house and so I
finally have the chance to "build my shop". She says all she wants me
to make for her is a birdhouse (but I've got her waiting on furniture).

And I have to tell her that I need a drill press, band saw, table saw,
router, fluorescent and task lighting, and new electrical sub-panel
panel to make this birdhouse.

Reminds me of the cute story that ends with the question: How much did
it cost you to make that little table (birdhouse)? $100k. : )

My numbers are smaller of course, but it still makes me smile.

Another antique metal-cutting lathe showed up at the local auction this
week. More petite than the monster that showed up a few months ago.
I'm either becoming more particular or becoming a conniseur. It's
cheaper and easier to be a conniseur than a collector!

Bill

On 11/30/2010 9:29 AM, Steve Turner wrote:

OMG, don't even think about NOT putting lights above the door, Bill!


You mean on the (thin strip of) "wall" rather than the overhead
ceiling, right?

Bill

On 11/30/2010 1:29 PM, Bill wrote:

On 11/30/2010 9:29 AM, Steve Turner wrote:

OMG, don't even think about NOT putting lights above the door, Bill!


You mean on the (thin strip of) "wall" rather than the overhead ceiling, right?

Mine are on the ceiling, not the wall.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 11/30/2010 3:06 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 11/30/2010 1:29 PM, Bill wrote:

On 11/30/2010 9:29 AM, Steve Turner wrote:

OMG, don't even think about NOT putting lights above the door, Bill!


You mean on the (thin strip of) "wall" rather than the overhead
ceiling, right?

Mine are on the ceiling, not the wall.


Thank you.
Bill

On Nov 29, 11:14*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:04:56 -0800, Mike M





wrote:
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 02:34:08 -0500, Bill wrote:

Concerned that I was getting lazy, I went out and measured my ceiling
joists and other structure carefully and spent my evening with SketchUp!

I am concerned as to how many new 48" (10" wraparound) fixtures to add.
Please see my two jpeg's:

* * * * * * * *http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Putting another light above my virtual bench may make good sense.
However, If I regard my bench area as 10' by 8', then my new pics at my
web site already demonstrate 80 ft^2/6 bulbs = 13.3 ft^2 per bulb!
Don't want to blast my self out. *I was thinking of using 32W, 5000K or
6000K fluorescent bulbs.

I would like to try to optimize my lighting? As drawn, the distances of
the lights from the walls are 36" and 24" respectively. *Assume the
walls will be white (for decent reflectivity). The floor is concrete.
I'm going to keep the light in front of the subpanel 36" away from it to
satisfy relevant codes (regarding a "free workspace").

I never did this before and I hope to do it right the first time. *What
would you change?

Thanks,
Bill

Well task lighting is nice but it doesn't make for a nice work
environment. *Get a decent light level for the entire shop then take
on the task lighting.

Don't you feel that NINE dual 4' fluors would decently light up that
20x25' shop space? *If not, fall in behind Lew. *I'm doing OK with 5
of 'em in a 20x24' double car shop (w/ attached home.)

Nine dual 4 foot 40 watt fluorescent fixtures is pretty good. It will
seem pretty bright, but could be better. I would put 12 or 15
fixtures in for overall lighting. The 9 fixtures will not be enough
to really light up the room. You will be able to see everything, but
it won't shine. You would still need task lighting to see. With 12
or better, 15, fixtures, you could eliminate the inconvenience of
turning on and off task lighting every time you move around the work
area. What an inconvenience.

My basement is split into two rooms. One about 19x29 and the other
25x32. About 550 and 800 square feet. The 550 side has 19 two bulb 4
foot 40 watt fluorescent fixtures. About 2.7 watts per square foot.
The 800 side has 18 two bulb 4 foot 40 watt fluorescent fixtures.
About 1.8 watts per square foot. Both rooms are bright. All walls
and floor are painted white. Until now I never realized one side was
so under lit compared to the other side. The way the room is setup
with the furnace and ductwork and supporting beam, I'm not sure I
could have squeezed in another row of lights. So it will have to do.

The question asker has 500 square feet lit by 9 lights so about 1.44
watts per square foot. Good but could easily be better. Your room is
480 square feet lit by 5 fixtures. Only 0.83 watts per square foot.
Not enough.

If the original question asker is putting in lights, I don't
understand why he would not put in plenty of lights. It takes minimal
extra work to install a few more. And if having light bothers you,
its easy to just remove the bulb. Less light, less electricity used,
and you still have the option of putting the bulb back in and getting
adequate light.




--
Happiness comes of the capacity to feel deeply, to enjoy
simply, to think freely, to risk life, to be needed.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Storm Jameson- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

wrote:

If the original question asker is putting in lights, I don't
understand why he would not put in plenty of lights. It takes minimal
extra work to install a few more. And if having light bothers you,
its easy to just remove the bulb. Less light, less electricity used,
and you still have the option of putting the bulb back in and getting
adequate light.



Thanks for sharing your thoughts and your calculations.

Bill

Larry Jaques wrote:

Ayup, it's time to start cuttin' into that drywall if you didn't wire
for the entire ceiling. Add that switch while you're at it. 3 rows of
3 fixtures with 2 rows of 2 in between them, switched for even and odd
rows. 3' spacing between rows instead of 4', or go 2' from walls and
keep the 4' row spacing.

---- ---- ----
---- ---- (door side)
---- ---- ----
---- ----
---- ---- ----

It's closer to Lew's modeling (way too much, IMHO) but it's switchable
to avoid the need for sunglasses. Pure white EGGSHELL paint is the
perfect mix for reflection without glare or thrown shadows.

Hmm.. 480 ft^2/13 luminaires = 30 ft^2. IIRC, that's exactly what Lew
suggested. Getting wires close to the (door side) may be
difficult/impossible without going through the imitation stucco ceiling.
I will investigate further. With that many lights, I might feel like
I'm in Las Vegas!

Bill

Bill wrote in :


Mine is 20'x 24' too. Almost exactly 1/2 of the ceiling is basically
occupied by the electric "garage door". Although putting lights above
it may be possible, I am not interested in considering it at this
time.
I'll do some more modeling in a few days based upon recent input
folks
have generously provided to me.


*snip*

What you need is a new garage door with windows in it. Put your lights
above the windows and they'll shine through! :-)

You can also cover the windows with blinds hinged at the top. When the
door opens, the blinds will uncover the windows and the light still can
shine through. :-)

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 13:22:51 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Nov 29, 11:14Â*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:04:56 -0800, Mike M





wrote:
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 02:34:08 -0500, Bill wrote:

Concerned that I was getting lazy, I went out and measured my ceiling
joists and other structure carefully and spent my evening with SketchUp!

I am concerned as to how many new 48" (10" wraparound) fixtures to add.
Please see my two jpeg's:

Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Putting another light above my virtual bench may make good sense.
However, If I regard my bench area as 10' by 8', then my new pics at my
web site already demonstrate 80 ft^2/6 bulbs = 13.3 ft^2 per bulb!
Don't want to blast my self out. Â*I was thinking of using 32W, 5000K or
6000K fluorescent bulbs.

I would like to try to optimize my lighting? As drawn, the distances of
the lights from the walls are 36" and 24" respectively. Â*Assume the
walls will be white (for decent reflectivity). The floor is concrete.
I'm going to keep the light in front of the subpanel 36" away from it to
satisfy relevant codes (regarding a "free workspace").

I never did this before and I hope to do it right the first time. Â*What
would you change?

Thanks,
Bill

Well task lighting is nice but it doesn't make for a nice work
environment. Â*Get a decent light level for the entire shop then take
on the task lighting.

Don't you feel that NINE dual 4' fluors would decently light up that
20x25' shop space? Â*If not, fall in behind Lew. Â*I'm doing OK with 5
of 'em in a 20x24' double car shop (w/ attached home.)

Nine dual 4 foot 40 watt fluorescent fixtures is pretty good. It will
seem pretty bright, but could be better. I would put 12 or 15
fixtures in for overall lighting. The 9 fixtures will not be enough
to really light up the room. You will be able to see everything, but
it won't shine. You would still need task lighting to see. With 12
or better, 15, fixtures, you could eliminate the inconvenience of
turning on and off task lighting every time you move around the work
area. What an inconvenience.

My basement is split into two rooms. One about 19x29 and the other
25x32. About 550 and 800 square feet. The 550 side has 19 two bulb 4
foot 40 watt fluorescent fixtures. About 2.7 watts per square foot.
The 800 side has 18 two bulb 4 foot 40 watt fluorescent fixtures.
About 1.8 watts per square foot. Both rooms are bright. All walls
and floor are painted white. Until now I never realized one side was
so under lit compared to the other side. The way the room is setup
with the furnace and ductwork and supporting beam, I'm not sure I
could have squeezed in another row of lights. So it will have to do.

The question asker has 500 square feet lit by 9 lights so about 1.44
watts per square foot. Good but could easily be better. Your room is
480 square feet lit by 5 fixtures. Only 0.83 watts per square foot.
Not enough.

If the original question asker is putting in lights, I don't
understand why he would not put in plenty of lights. It takes minimal
extra work to install a few more. And if having light bothers you,
its easy to just remove the bulb. Less light, less electricity used,
and you still have the option of putting the bulb back in and getting
adequate light.




--
Happiness comes of the capacity to feel deeply, to enjoy
simply, to think freely, to risk life, to be needed.
Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* -- Storm Jameson- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
I'd put in lots of light - but "split density" - half of each light,
or every second light, on one switch, the other half on another switch
so you can have enough light to move around and do non-vision-critical
stuff with reduced lighting cost, and full bright light when you need
it.
With dual ballast 4 lampers put the inners on one ballast (and
switch) and the outers on the second. Primary lighting would use the
outer tubes, full lighting all 4.

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 12:07:07 -0500, Bill
wrote:

On 11/30/2010 9:33 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Bill wrote: One good
thing that is the price of my fixtures may have went down since I set
aside the deluxe wrap-arounds so I should be able to buy a few more.

Good move. The cheapo, open, shop type fixtures work just fine.


You mean the ones with the reflectors/wings?

With or without, it makes little difference. White paint ceilings and
walls will act as reflectors.

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 12:50:09 -0500, Bill
wrote:

On 11/29/2010 10:16 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

At least this time around, I know 6000K is not necessarily "Brighter
Than" 5000K! I'm getting there. : )

Hell, Bill. In just six to ten more months, you'll likely have the
answer!


I year and a half ago, my wife and I moved into our house and so I
finally have the chance to "build my shop". She says all she wants me
to make for her is a birdhouse (but I've got her waiting on furniture).

Good going.


And I have to tell her that I need a drill press, band saw, table saw,
router, fluorescent and task lighting, and new electrical sub-panel
panel to make this birdhouse.

That is trickier, as I understand it from a bachelor's point of view.


Reminds me of the cute story that ends with the question: How much did
it cost you to make that little table (birdhouse)? $100k. : )

Sounds about right.


My numbers are smaller of course, but it still makes me smile.

One would hope.


Another antique metal-cutting lathe showed up at the local auction this
week. More petite than the monster that showed up a few months ago.
I'm either becoming more particular or becoming a conniseur. It's
cheaper and easier to be a conniseur than a collector!

Indeed!

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 14:29:39 -0500, Bill
wrote:


On 11/30/2010 9:29 AM, Steve Turner wrote:

OMG, don't even think about NOT putting lights above the door, Bill!


You mean on the (thin strip of) "wall" rather than the overhead
ceiling, right?

I mean that you should put lights on the ceiling above the area the
door opens to. Just Do It!

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 14:29:39 -0500, Bill
wrote:
You mean on the (thin strip of) "wall" rather than the overhead
ceiling, right?

I mean that you should put lights on the ceiling above the area the
door opens to. Just Do It!

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

Typical garage door needs a significant amount of clearance from the
ceiling - there should be plenty of room for lights there - climb up a
ladder and measure it. You can also mount them on the garage door tracks
if you are capable of a little metalwork and pay attention to where you
can attach stuff without mucking up door operation. Those would not be
blocked by the door (but they will be its full width apart.) Fairly rare
for most of us to have lights on and door open at same time, in practice
(even if the weather is nice, the bugs fly into the lights, and
garage-door-size screen doors are a significant hassle/project.)

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 14:29:39 -0500,
wrote:


On 11/30/2010 9:29 AM, Steve Turner wrote:

OMG, don't even think about NOT putting lights above the door, Bill!


You mean on the (thin strip of) "wall" rather than the overhead
ceiling, right?

I mean that you should put lights on the ceiling above the area the
door opens to. Just Do It!

Yes, I will. It's just that getting electricity to that precise spot
isn't as simple as it may seem on the Internet! : )

Unfortunately, I think even a good description of the mess involved
would pale in comparison to the actual mess...

Maybe there is an easier way...I need to investigate further and see.

Bill


--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

"Bill" wrote

Yes, I will. It's just that getting electricity to that precise spot
isn't as simple as it may seem on the Internet! : )

You can always run some romex in metal conduit on the outside of the wall.
It doesn't look all that sexy. But is is often done in shops. Not much
mess with that approach. Just find the wood behind the drywall to attach
the conduit. Conduit attaches easily to the outlet boxes. Lights and
outlets can them be added to the outlet boxes.