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On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 21:33:15 -0500, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 14:29:39 -0500,
wrote:


On 11/30/2010 9:29 AM, Steve Turner wrote:

OMG, don't even think about NOT putting lights above the door, Bill!


You mean on the (thin strip of) "wall" rather than the overhead
ceiling, right?


I mean that you should put lights on the ceiling above the area the
door opens to. Just Do It!


Yes, I will. It's just that getting electricity to that precise spot
isn't as simple as it may seem on the Internet! : )


Wiremold is your friend - or condouit.

Unfortunately, I think even a good description of the mess involved
would pale in comparison to the actual mess...

Maybe there is an easier way...I need to investigate further and see.

Bill


--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck


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On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 21:33:15 -0500, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 14:29:39 -0500,
wrote:


On 11/30/2010 9:29 AM, Steve Turner wrote:

OMG, don't even think about NOT putting lights above the door, Bill!


You mean on the (thin strip of) "wall" rather than the overhead
ceiling, right?


I mean that you should put lights on the ceiling above the area the
door opens to. Just Do It!


Yes, I will. It's just that getting electricity to that precise spot
isn't as simple as it may seem on the Internet! : )


Pobrecito!


Unfortunately, I think even a good description of the mess involved
would pale in comparison to the actual mess...


All together now guys... AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!


Maybe there is an easier way...I need to investigate further and see.


Go fishin' lately?
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-16-in...kit-65327.html

Small holes, covered by the fixture the romex feeds to.


OK, maybe it's a -teensy- bit harder to do than to talk about.

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck


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On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 22:14:51 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net wrote:



"Bill" wrote

Yes, I will. It's just that getting electricity to that precise spot
isn't as simple as it may seem on the Internet! : )

You can always run some romex in metal conduit on the outside of the wall.
It doesn't look all that sexy. But is is often done in shops. Not much
mess with that approach. Just find the wood behind the drywall to attach
the conduit. Conduit attaches easily to the outlet boxes. Lights and
outlets can them be added to the outlet boxes.


There ya go, painting the conduit white to match. It will hide up
there fairly well. (Nah, I'd put it up behind the drywall.)

And branch the second light string from the first.

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck
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Larry Jaques wrote:

Unfortunately, I think even a good description of the mess involved
would pale in comparison to the actual mess...


All together now guys... AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!


Maybe there is an easier way...I need to investigate further and see.


Go fishin' lately?
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-16-in...kit-65327.html

Small holes, covered by the fixture the romex feeds to.


Aw.. now you haven't known me to be either a whiner, nor an impulse
person. I absorbed lots of ideas in the last day or two and I'll give
them there fair due. I appreciate the pushes in the right direction.
I have to go up in the attic again....it's been too long..lol.

Bill
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Larry Jaques wrote:

Go fishin' lately?
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-16-in...kit-65327.html

Small holes, covered by the fixture the romex feeds to.



The last few times I needed something like this, I used a couple coat
hangers straightened-out and connected together end-to-end and
electrical tape (to attach the romex to the end). Whatsa matter, you
made a money? : )

Bill
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Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 20:19:28 -0500, wrote:

I'd put in lots of light - but "split density" - half of each light,
or every second light, on one switch, the other half on another switch
so you can have enough light to move around and do non-vision-critical
stuff with reduced lighting cost, and full bright light when you need
it.


Yabbut, Bill doesn't want to tear up any fresh drywall and had only
planned on wiring half his shop ceiling to begin with! I'm hoping he
reconsiders both options as absolutely necessary to his eventual
happiness.


Yeah, the lights you suggested today--above the garage door, will
require a separate switch, as well as half of the others new ones (the
way I see it). I'm not afraid of cutting drywall. I'm just not going to
cut it in haste. The more I think about it, the more I think a little
cleverness in using my 1 new lighting cable that I have could go a long
way on this... Maybe the switch that it's on will become a "master"
switch. Unfortunately, my new insulation in the walls makes adding new
wall switches a "pain".

This just reinforces the notion that learning processes like this are
circular in nature.

I just happen to have 3 fluorescent fixtures on short chains (4100K
bulbs, I believe). One of them is portable. In the meantime I may
experiment with different bulbs and see what I can learn about light
density.

Bill
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On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 01:28:01 -0500, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Go fishin' lately?
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-16-in...kit-65327.html

Small holes, covered by the fixture the romex feeds to.



The last few times I needed something like this, I used a couple coat
hangers straightened-out and connected together end-to-end and
electrical tape (to attach the romex to the end). Whatsa matter, you
made a money? : )


If you use Lew's lighting density, you won't have money for the extra
romex OR this fishing kit, will ya?

Here I am, slaving over ways to save you some money and this is what I
get for my long and strenuous efforts?

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck


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On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 02:18:22 -0500, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 20:19:28 -0500, wrote:

I'd put in lots of light - but "split density" - half of each light,
or every second light, on one switch, the other half on another switch
so you can have enough light to move around and do non-vision-critical
stuff with reduced lighting cost, and full bright light when you need
it.


Yabbut, Bill doesn't want to tear up any fresh drywall and had only
planned on wiring half his shop ceiling to begin with! I'm hoping he
reconsiders both options as absolutely necessary to his eventual
happiness.


Yeah, the lights you suggested today--above the garage door, will
require a separate switch, as well as half of the others new ones (the
way I see it). I'm not afraid of cutting drywall. I'm just not going to
cut it in haste. The more I think about it, the more I think a little
cleverness in using my 1 new lighting cable that I have could go a long
way on this... Maybe the switch that it's on will become a "master"
switch. Unfortunately, my new insulation in the walls makes adding new
wall switches a "pain".


Not with a shiny new fishing kit, it doesn't.


This just reinforces the notion that learning processes like this are
circular in nature.


When in trouble or in doubt, run in circles scream and shout?


I just happen to have 3 fluorescent fixtures on short chains (4100K
bulbs, I believe).


Yeah, most are.


One of them is portable.


Zipcord and male connectors will make the others that way in a jiffy.


In the meantime I may
experiment with different bulbs and see what I can learn about light
density.


Goodonya, mate.

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck
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In article , Bill
wrote:

Maybe there is an easier way...I need to investigate further and see.


EMT and surface boxes get the job done, and are not too spendy. Added
plus - rodents can't chew those wires. I've come to a new appreciation
of the "Chicago code" approach (EVERYTHING in conduit, which may or may
not be _actual_ Chicago code) after finding some of the things mice have
chewed over the years. Having been raised in a state where it's still
legal (and certainly was very common) to simply staple romex (exposed)
in accessory buildings (barns, garages, shops) that's a major shift in
my thinking. Realizing that the fire department is mostly only able to
keep fires from spreading to other buildings by the time they arrive has
impacted that thought process.

Does mean I have a pile of plastic romex-only boxes I'm not going to
use, probably, but there you go.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
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Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 01:28:01 -0500, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Go fishin' lately?
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-16-in...kit-65327.html

Small holes, covered by the fixture the romex feeds to.



The last few times I needed something like this, I used a couple coat
hangers straightened-out and connected together end-to-end and
electrical tape (to attach the romex to the end). Whatsa matter, you
made a money? : )


If you use Lew's lighting density, you won't have money for the extra
romex OR this fishing kit, will ya?

Here I am, slaving over ways to save you some money and this is what I
get for my long and strenuous efforts?


I woke up this morning and realized my vision had been modified this
week. Thank you for your efforts to help me get it right and save me
money, and uh, uh, time! : ) The external wiremold cabling as has
been suggested would probably simplify my installation considerably too!

Bill



--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck


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Ecnerwal wrote:
In ,
wrote:

Maybe there is an easier way...I need to investigate further and see.


EMT and surface boxes get the job done, and are not too spendy. Added
plus - rodents can't chew those wires. I've come to a new appreciation
of the "Chicago code" approach (EVERYTHING in conduit, which may or may
not be _actual_ Chicago code).



Your comments on EMT are well-taken. Sounds like a smart approach.
It's time for me to draw a new model.

I have a small black "shop mole" I run into from time to time. I
wondered what he was doing for food. I learned he evidentally ate a 5
pound bag of dog biscuits last winter, all through a hole no larger than
a nickle near the bottom. My wife said she isn't going to feed him this
year.

Bill
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On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 12:20:44 -0500, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 01:28:01 -0500, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Go fishin' lately?
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-16-in...kit-65327.html

Small holes, covered by the fixture the romex feeds to.


The last few times I needed something like this, I used a couple coat
hangers straightened-out and connected together end-to-end and
electrical tape (to attach the romex to the end). Whatsa matter, you
made a money? : )


If you use Lew's lighting density, you won't have money for the extra
romex OR this fishing kit, will ya?

Here I am, slaving over ways to save you some money and this is what I
get for my long and strenuous efforts?


I woke up this morning and realized my vision had been modified this
week. Thank you for your efforts to help me get it right and save me
money, and uh, uh, time! : ) The external wiremold cabling as has
been suggested would probably simplify my installation considerably too!


Bill,, maybe you should run it directly over of the lovely bevel you
created when installing thinner drywall on the bottom. /rimshot

--
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!


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Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 12:20:44 -0500, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 01:28:01 -0500, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Go fishin' lately?
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-16-in...kit-65327.html

Small holes, covered by the fixture the romex feeds to.


The last few times I needed something like this, I used a couple coat
hangers straightened-out and connected together end-to-end and
electrical tape (to attach the romex to the end). Whatsa matter, you
made a money? : )

If you use Lew's lighting density, you won't have money for the extra
romex OR this fishing kit, will ya?

Here I am, slaving over ways to save you some money and this is what I
get for my long and strenuous efforts?


I woke up this morning and realized my vision had been modified this
week. Thank you for your efforts to help me get it right and save me
money, and uh, uh, time! : ) The external wiremold cabling as has
been suggested would probably simplify my installation considerably too!


Bill,, maybe you should run it directly over of the lovely bevel you
created when installing thinner drywall on the bottom./rimshot



Thanks! I'm not even sure how it would look across my aging imitation
stucco'd ceiling. BTW, at this point, no bevel is evident; it was nice
of you to remember though.

Here's the idea I came up with during lunch.

Think of the shop in thirds: Left End/ Middle / Right End(door).

I think I'd usually want light on the Left End, near the benches,
anytime I was in the shop, and the rest too if I was using the TS or
other power tools in the middle or doing anything near the door.
Anything less could create a hazard (for the pedestrian).

So, I could use my new already installed "master light switch" to
control all of the lighting and then think figure out how to add a new
switch for the latter 2/3 of the lights. The latter switch would also be
dependent, of course, on the master switch.

The "master light switch" is right next to the door, so it is just where
one would want it.

I still have my existing two fluorescent fixtures, powered by a separate
electrical panel, as back-up for some types of emergencies.

Task lighting, extra!

Bill


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you can always mount your wires externally to sheetrock. Depending on
code you may require a conduit, or you may not.

On 11/30/2010 9:33 PM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 14:29:39 -0500,
wrote:


On 11/30/2010 9:29 AM, Steve Turner wrote:

OMG, don't even think about NOT putting lights above the door, Bill!


You mean on the (thin strip of) "wall" rather than the overhead
ceiling, right?


I mean that you should put lights on the ceiling above the area the
door opens to. Just Do It!


Yes, I will. It's just that getting electricity to that precise spot
isn't as simple as it may seem on the Internet! : )

Unfortunately, I think even a good description of the mess involved
would pale in comparison to the actual mess...

Maybe there is an easier way...I need to investigate further and see.

Bill


--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck


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you never run romex in conduit!!!
You run multistrand wires in conduit.


On 11/30/2010 10:14 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"Bill" wrote

Yes, I will. It's just that getting electricity to that precise spot
isn't as simple as it may seem on the Internet! : )

You can always run some romex in metal conduit on the outside of the
wall. It doesn't look all that sexy. But is is often done in shops. Not
much mess with that approach. Just find the wood behind the drywall to
attach the conduit. Conduit attaches easily to the outlet boxes. Lights
and outlets can them be added to the outlet boxes.





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On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 14:20:38 -0500, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 12:20:44 -0500, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 01:28:01 -0500, wrote:


Bill,, maybe you should run it directly over of the lovely bevel you
created when installing thinner drywall on the bottom./rimshot



Thanks! I'm not even sure how it would look across my aging imitation
stucco'd ceiling. BTW, at this point, no bevel is evident; it was nice
of you to remember though.


You're very welcome, sir.


Here's the idea I came up with during lunch.


Uh, oh!


Think of the shop in thirds: Left End/ Middle / Right End(door).

I think I'd usually want light on the Left End, near the benches,
anytime I was in the shop, and the rest too if I was using the TS or
other power tools in the middle or doing anything near the door.
Anything less could create a hazard (for the pedestrian).


"Too complicated" is my first thought.


So, I could use my new already installed "master light switch" to
control all of the lighting and then think figure out how to add a new
switch for the latter 2/3 of the lights. The latter switch would also be
dependent, of course, on the master switch.


OK.


The "master light switch" is right next to the door, so it is just where
one would want it.


Right.


I still have my existing two fluorescent fixtures, powered by a separate
electrical panel, as back-up for some types of emergencies.


shrug


Task lighting, extra!


Always.

--
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!
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In article , tiredofspam
says...

you never run romex in conduit!!!
You run multistrand wires in conduit.


Instead, you run Romex in a chase made out of EMT.


On 11/30/2010 10:14 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"Bill" wrote

Yes, I will. It's just that getting electricity to that precise spot
isn't as simple as it may seem on the Internet! : )

You can always run some romex in metal conduit on the outside of the
wall. It doesn't look all that sexy. But is is often done in shops. Not
much mess with that approach. Just find the wood behind the drywall to
attach the conduit. Conduit attaches easily to the outlet boxes. Lights
and outlets can them be added to the outlet boxes.







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On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 16:34:59 -0500, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com
wrote:

you never run romex in conduit!!!
You run multistrand wires in conduit.



Never say never - in industry everything in conduit is separate
conductors, but NMS cable in conduit for protection is rather common
in residential applications. And it DOES meet code.


On 11/30/2010 10:14 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"Bill" wrote

Yes, I will. It's just that getting electricity to that precise spot
isn't as simple as it may seem on the Internet! : )

You can always run some romex in metal conduit on the outside of the
wall. It doesn't look all that sexy. But is is often done in shops. Not
much mess with that approach. Just find the wood behind the drywall to
attach the conduit. Conduit attaches easily to the outlet boxes. Lights
and outlets can them be added to the outlet boxes.






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On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 22:54:05 -0500, Bill wrote:

wrote:

Yes, I will. It's just that getting electricity to that precise spot
isn't as simple as it may seem on the Internet! : )


Wiremold is your friend - or condouit.


Wiremold Metal Raceway?

Bill

Wiremould surface mount raceway -half inch - PN03L08V

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On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 02:18:22 -0500, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 20:19:28 -0500, wrote:

I'd put in lots of light - but "split density" - half of each light,
or every second light, on one switch, the other half on another switch
so you can have enough light to move around and do non-vision-critical
stuff with reduced lighting cost, and full bright light when you need
it.


Yabbut, Bill doesn't want to tear up any fresh drywall and had only
planned on wiring half his shop ceiling to begin with! I'm hoping he
reconsiders both options as absolutely necessary to his eventual
happiness.


Yeah, the lights you suggested today--above the garage door, will
require a separate switch, as well as half of the others new ones (the
way I see it). I'm not afraid of cutting drywall. I'm just not going to
cut it in haste. The more I think about it, the more I think a little
cleverness in using my 1 new lighting cable that I have could go a long
way on this... Maybe the switch that it's on will become a "master"
switch. Unfortunately, my new insulation in the walls makes adding new
wall switches a "pain".


As long as there are no "firestops" or crossbraces the insulation is
only a minor inconvenience. I pull comm cable into insulated steel
studded walls quite often. A lighted fish-tape makes it a lot easier,
I'll have to admit. (red LED on the end so you can see which side of
the hole it goes past when you shove it down the wall, )

This just reinforces the notion that learning processes like this are
circular in nature.

I just happen to have 3 fluorescent fixtures on short chains (4100K
bulbs, I believe). One of them is portable. In the meantime I may
experiment with different bulbs and see what I can learn about light
density.

Bill




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tiredofspam wrote:

you can always mount your wires externally to sheetrock. Depending on
code you may require a conduit, or you may not.


Huh?

--

-Mike-



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Bill wrote:


I still have my existing two fluorescent fixtures, powered by a
separate electrical panel, as back-up for some types of emergencies.


No you don't. Your "separate electrical panel" is a sub panel off of the
main. Nothing "back-up" about that.

--

-Mike-



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Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


I still have my existing two fluorescent fixtures, powered by a
separate electrical panel, as back-up for some types of emergencies.


No you don't. Your "separate electrical panel" is a sub panel off of the
main. Nothing "back-up" about that.


Maybe you misunderstood? My existing two fluorescent fixtures are power
off of the main. "Everything else" in the shop is powered by the
subpanel. If the C'Breaker corresponding to the sub-panel trips, my 2
fluorescent lights will still be shining. So they are a backup system, no?

Bill
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Larry Jaques wrote:

Ayup, it's time to start cuttin' into that drywall if you didn't wire
for the entire ceiling. Add that switch while you're at it. 3 rows of
3 fixtures with 2 rows of 2 in between them, switched for even and odd
rows. 3' spacing between rows instead of 4', or go 2' from walls and
keep the 4' row spacing.

---- ---- ----
---- ---- (door side)
---- ---- ----
---- ----
---- ---- ----

It's closer to Lew's modeling (way too much, IMHO) but it's switchable
to avoid the need for sunglasses. Pure white EGGSHELL paint is the
perfect mix for reflection without glare or thrown shadows.


Larry,
Here are 2 more views of your vision implemented in SketchUp in case
anyone would like to see:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

I had to move a few bit to accommodate obstacles (like garage door
opener). The luminaires with electronic ballasts featuring "instant
start" and than 10% THD are about $40 each--lamps extra.

Bill


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Bill wrote:


Maybe you misunderstood? My existing two fluorescent fixtures are
power off of the main. "Everything else" in the shop is powered by the
subpanel. If the C'Breaker corresponding to the sub-panel trips, my 2
fluorescent lights will still be shining. So they are a backup
system, no?


Correct - I misunderstood. Hate it when that happens...

--

-Mike-



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On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 00:53:03 -0500, Bill wrote:

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


I still have my existing two fluorescent fixtures, powered by a
separate electrical panel, as back-up for some types of emergencies.


No you don't. Your "separate electrical panel" is a sub panel off of the
main. Nothing "back-up" about that.


Maybe you misunderstood? My existing two fluorescent fixtures are power
off of the main. "Everything else" in the shop is powered by the
subpanel. If the C'Breaker corresponding to the sub-panel trips, my 2
fluorescent lights will still be shining. So they are a backup system, no?


Only if you had them turned on when the others blew.

--
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!
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Bill wrote:


I had to move a few bit to accommodate obstacles (like garage door
opener). The luminaires with electronic ballasts featuring "instant
start" and than 10% THD are about $40 each--lamps extra.

Bill


I don't remember the size of your garage Bill, but mine is 36 X 26 and I
have 15 4' flourescent fixtures with 2 bulbs each in it. They are
configured as 6 in each car bay, and 3 in the third bay which is where
things like my table saw, compound mitre, etc. sleep when I'm not using
them. As well, there is a workbench across the back of the third bay that
has an additional flourescent hung under a shelf.

That's ton of light - and I paint cars in my garage, as well as woodworking,
butchering the occassional deer, and assorted other things. I can't imagine
what yours is going to look like! Expect to hear the Halleluiah Choir when
you hit the switch!

--

-Mike-



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On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 02:02:06 -0500, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Ayup, it's time to start cuttin' into that drywall if you didn't wire
for the entire ceiling. Add that switch while you're at it. 3 rows of
3 fixtures with 2 rows of 2 in between them, switched for even and odd
rows. 3' spacing between rows instead of 4', or go 2' from walls and
keep the 4' row spacing.

---- ---- ----
---- ---- (door side)
---- ---- ----
---- ----
---- ---- ----

It's closer to Lew's modeling (way too much, IMHO) but it's switchable
to avoid the need for sunglasses. Pure white EGGSHELL paint is the
perfect mix for reflection without glare or thrown shadows.


Larry,
Here are 2 more views of your vision implemented in SketchUp in case
anyone would like to see:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/


Cool! I assume that the two wrong-way lights are the existing backups?


I had to move a few bit to accommodate obstacles (like garage door
opener). The luminaires with electronic ballasts featuring "instant
start" and than 10% THD are about $40 each--lamps extra.


Total harmonic distortion in fluors? New one on me.

See if you can buy lamps and fixtures by the case from the electrical
distributor for a better price.

--
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!


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tiredofspam wrote:
I know it is up to code, but it is not standard. The flexibility of
romex in conduit is ridiculous. It just doesn't make the turns real
well. Have plenty of lube on hand and a helper.

Romex is for installations outside conduit. It doesn't make sense to
use this type of wire in a conduit.


I concur. I wouldn't consider running NM through a conduit unless it was
just to protect a short stretch of it. Bill would be far better off to pick
up some THHN at the local Home Depot if he wants to run in conduit. It's
much easier to push/pull than fighting with NM, and you can pack more
conductors (with THHN) into any given diameter of conduit than you can with
NM. If one is getting elaborate with switching, that starts to become a
consideration very quickly. Hang a piece of 3/4" conduit up on the ceiling
and you can run 16 12ga wires through it. Or... one piece of 12/2 NM. Put
a bend in that conduit and you'll wish you had used THHN before long.

--

-Mike-



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In article , tiredofspam
says...

I know it is up to code, but it is not standard. The flexibility of
romex in conduit is ridiculous. It just doesn't make the turns real
well. Have plenty of lube on hand and a helper.

Romex is for installations outside conduit. It doesn't make sense to use
this type of wire in a conduit.


If you're pulling it around corners in a chase then you should turn the
chase into a conduit and use separate conductors. But it makes plenty
of sense to use an EMT chase if the code requires that there be no
exposed wiring in a particular area and you have a straight shot from
where you need a fixture to a location where exposed wiring is OK--then
you just run a straight piece of Romex through a chase to wherever you
need the receptacle or switch or whatever.





On 12/1/2010 6:11 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 16:34:59 -0500, tiredofspamnospam.nospam.com
wrote:

you never run romex in conduit!!!
You run multistrand wires in conduit.



Never say never - in industry everything in conduit is separate
conductors, but NMS cable in conduit for protection is rather common
in residential applications. And it DOES meet code.


On 11/30/2010 10:14 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:


wrote

Yes, I will. It's just that getting electricity to that precise spot
isn't as simple as it may seem on the Internet! : )

You can always run some romex in metal conduit on the outside of the
wall. It doesn't look all that sexy. But is is often done in shops. Not
much mess with that approach. Just find the wood behind the drywall to
attach the conduit. Conduit attaches easily to the outlet boxes. Lights
and outlets can them be added to the outlet boxes.








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J. Clarke wrote:
In article , tiredofspam
says...

I know it is up to code, but it is not standard. The flexibility of
romex in conduit is ridiculous. It just doesn't make the turns real
well. Have plenty of lube on hand and a helper.

Romex is for installations outside conduit. It doesn't make sense to
use this type of wire in a conduit.


If you're pulling it around corners in a chase then you should turn
the chase into a conduit and use separate conductors. But it makes
plenty of sense to use an EMT chase if the code requires that there
be no exposed wiring in a particular area and you have a straight
shot from where you need a fixture to a location where exposed wiring
is OK--then you just run a straight piece of Romex through a chase to
wherever you need the receptacle or switch or whatever.



Well - holes in floor joists are condidered a chase, so it's not really safe
to say that if you're pulling around corners in a chase you should use
conduit. It's better to just stick with one kind of wiring as much as
possible. If conduit proves to be the best solution for the most of the
run, then go with it all the way on that circuit. In Bill's case - from the
switchbox throughout the lighting run - or at least to a minimum number of
J-boxes in which to switch over to NM, assuming the required protection for
NM.

--

-Mike-



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On 12/2/2010 8:19 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


I had to move a few bit to accommodate obstacles (like garage door
opener). The luminaires with electronic ballasts featuring "instant
start" and than 10% THD are about $40 each--lamps extra.

Bill


I don't remember the size of your garage Bill, but mine is 36 X 26 and I
have 15 4' flourescent fixtures with 2 bulbs each in it. They are
configured as 6 in each car bay, and 3 in the third bay which is where
things like my table saw, compound mitre, etc. sleep when I'm not using
them. As well, there is a workbench across the back of the third bay that
has an additional flourescent hung under a shelf.

That's ton of light - and I paint cars in my garage, as well as woodworking,
butchering the occassional deer, and assorted other things. I can't imagine
what yours is going to look like! Expect to hear the Halleluiah Choir when
you hit the switch!


Mine is 24' x 20'. I may tone it back near the door--like your 3rd bay.
There are 2 houses on my on quite unlit street where people regularly
work in their garages in the evening (one of them is a Harley motorcycle
dealer/seller) and it is easy to see "who's working" if you look down
the street at night. I was thinking it might draw some attention if I
implemented the configuration above.

Let's see the math:
36*26/15 = 62.4 ft^2/luminaire
20*24/13 = 36.9 ft^2/luminaire (not counting "back up 2).

I'm still in the thinking phase.

Bill
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On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 07:54:13 -0500, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com
wrote:

I know it is up to code, but it is not standard. The flexibility of
romex in conduit is ridiculous. It just doesn't make the turns real
well. Have plenty of lube on hand and a helper.

Romex is for installations outside conduit. It doesn't make sense to use
this type of wire in a conduit.


When Dad, an electrician, had to do it he pulled the wire through the
conduit before installing it - goes through the bends and LBs a lot
easier that way. Using stranded wire involves junction boxes and
joints when transitioning from "protected by conduit" to "not
requiring protection" or "protected by existing structure"


On 12/1/2010 6:11 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 16:34:59 -0500, tiredofspamnospam.nospam.com
wrote:

you never run romex in conduit!!!
You run multistrand wires in conduit.



Never say never - in industry everything in conduit is separate
conductors, but NMS cable in conduit for protection is rather common
in residential applications. And it DOES meet code.


On 11/30/2010 10:14 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:


wrote

Yes, I will. It's just that getting electricity to that precise spot
isn't as simple as it may seem on the Internet! : )

You can always run some romex in metal conduit on the outside of the
wall. It doesn't look all that sexy. But is is often done in shops. Not
much mess with that approach. Just find the wood behind the drywall to
attach the conduit. Conduit attaches easily to the outlet boxes. Lights
and outlets can them be added to the outlet boxes.







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