On 3/23/2010 7:58 AM, Tom B wrote:


"LDosser" wrote in message
...
"Upscale" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:23:35 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

get Medicare.

Idiot. Medicare is not for the indigent. In fact it is for the
_wealthiest_ group.

Big deal, so I made a mistake between Medicare and Medicaid. The
question remains the same. How many of you assholes would happily go
through bankruptcy for health care? I can confidently say that no one
would.

Isn't it funny how almost everybody in the US that is against
universal health care is currently protected by some sort of medical
plan? What about all those literally millions and millions of US
citizens that aren't covered by anything? They're your people and they
are part of what makes the US such a great nation. Don't they deserve
some sort of health protection.

Illegal Aliens. They deserve a bus ride to the Mexican border.

Amen... twice before in our history, that's what they got. It's time for
a re-do!

I'd rather give the entire population of DC a bus ride to the Mexican
border.

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:02:47 -0500, the infamous Upscale
scrawled the following:

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 09:30:02 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:
If this holds up the "little guy" takes it in the ass. He's required to
buy something he can't afford or be fined an amount that he can't afford.
Not too bright are you clarke? If they're going to have trouble paying
for the universal medical insurance then they sure as hell are going
to have much more trouble paying for medical help when they need it.
Your half assed solution would be for them to declare bankruptcy to
get Medicare.

Exactly how many of you objectors to universal health insurance (alias
greedy, selfish assholes) are willing to say that you'd happily become
indigent to get Medicare?

Hey Uppy. Why am I suddenly a greedy, selfish asshole because I can't
afford healthcare insurance and am ****ed because my gov't just said
it will fine me for not having it? Where the hell do you get off?

I've spent roughly $200 per YEAR for my healthcare over the past
couple of decades. That includes chiropractic visits and the rare
doctor visit and very rare prescription. It doesn't include the
occasional massage or the expensive trips to the dentist every 5 years
or so.

Now the gov't says I'm going to have to pay about $600 a MONTH for a
benefit I won't receive and can't use for the next 5 years? If this
is the case, there's no way the public will stand for it. Bad ****'s
about to happen, methinks.

The "intended consequence" of the delay in bennys is to put the taxes
collected for those first four years into yet another "trust fund" so
there supposedly will be enough money to pay for the following six
years. Since we all know how federal trust funds work - take the cash
and place it in the general fund (and spend it on totally unrelated
things) and drop another bond (debt) into the trust fund. The cash gets
counted as revenue on the plus side but the bond doesn't get counted as
an expense - so it gives the appearance of reducing the deficit even
though the debt is increased dollar for dollar plus interest for
everything put in the trust fund. By this means, the Big O will try to
claim that this program reduced the deficit by hundreds of billions just
in time for 2012. After that, he doesn't give a **** as he can't run
again - unless he "deems" the presidential term limits null and void.
Anyway, after the first four years, they'll have to raise even more
taxes to buy back the bonds for this behemoth if they want to make ends
meet.



--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do, we
shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we cannot do.
-- Samuel Butler

Upscale wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:23:35 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

get Medicare.
Idiot. Medicare is not for the indigent. In fact it is for the
_wealthiest_ group.

Big deal, so I made a mistake between Medicare and Medicaid.

That's minor compared to the rest of your half-assed thoughts.

The
question remains the same. How many of you assholes would happily go
through bankruptcy for health care? I can confidently say that no one
would.

No one ever had to go bankrupt for great medical care in the US.

Isn't it funny how almost everybody in the US that is against
universal health care is currently protected by some sort of medical
plan?

Ain't it funny that everyone enjoying the best health care on earth has
been sharing that care with the few that can't enjoy it on their own dime?

What about all those literally millions and millions of US
citizens that aren't covered by anything? They're your people and they
are part of what makes the US such a great nation. Don't they deserve
some sort of health protection.

Not ONE person in the US has not been eligible for medical care in the
past. The US has free medical for the indigent. Not one indigent
person in the US cannot get Medicade.

If you were not indigent, but had no medical insurance, they had the
spend down medical program. That meant if you made $5,000 a month, and
had medical bill for say $10,000 in a month, you could get Medicade.
Even if you were a millionaire, you could still get Medicade if the
monthly expense minus your monthly income was less the poverty level
for income. This virtually made every single US citizen in need
eligible for free medical care, based on need.

I once stated that the most important human right was to be healthy.

Yeah, how's that working for you?

Mill jumped in and stated that it was freedom. The fact is that
illness and especially chronic illness without health care is a loss
of freedom that the healthy can never possibly comprehend.

Up your ass. In the US, everyone had medical care available to them,
and not just medical care, but the best medical care on earth, period.
This was made available by very healthy, very rich Americans.

The socialist *******s that took over the democratic party have just
reduced US medical to the arm pits of England and Canada, and the ONLY
reason is to empower the central government to enslave us. It has
NOTHING to do with free medical care.

--
Jack
Obama Care...Freedom not Included!
http://jbstein.com

On Mar 23, 12:32*pm, Upscale wrote:
On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 05:20:47 -0700 (PDT), busbus
wrote:

The bottom line is that for every example of somebody who is getting
screwed and losing everything because of medical problems, we can
probably find FIFTY or more examples of people who are abusing the
public assistance programs that are already in place. *Clean out the
garbage that is abusing the system that we have already established
and you will find more than enough money to fund this health care bill
AND to reduce taxes for every American.

Where are your statistics? Where are your factual records? How
*Exactly* does "probably find fifty more examples" turn into a proven
fact? All, I've heard from the "whiners" and "I'm being taxed to
death" is how the public assistance abusers are destroying the system.
Have ANY of you once mentioned the alternative? For every example of
somebody who is getting screwed and losing everything because of
medical problems, there are FIFTY or more example of greedy people
gutting the system for PROFIT. How many millions, billions and even
trillions of dollars have been stolen by people in positions of trust,
positions of managing huge amounts of money and places where lax
controls let people take what they want?

You read about them everyday, the few who have actually been caught.
Then there's a flood of charges and court cases and the person is
sentenced. BUT, have you noticed that the money is almost always gone?

How MANY thousands of times have these thefts happened? Yet, all you
whining miscreants do is blame the indigent and welfare bums. The
people who don't have the skills or wherewith all to steal and hide
such large sums of money.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO BLAME SOME GROUP FOR GUTTING THE COUNTRY, THEN
YOU'D BETTER MAKE DAMNED SURE THAT YOU BLAME THE RIGHT PEOPLE.

ALL YOU'VE DONE SO FAR IS USE THE INDIGENT AS SCAPEGOATS WHILE THE
REAL THIEVES BASK IN OBSCENELY RICH OBSCURITY.

You "complainers" aren't men. You're whiney little boys crying that
you've been screwed by the system while you sit back and blame the
easiest target available. Grow up and consider which truth is more
likely, that the welfare bums of your nation have stolen all your
money or the people in positions of trust have been more greedy that
any one of you can comprehend?

Wow, 180-degrees to the other side.

I never said people didn't put their grimy little hands into the
coffers, did I? Geesh.

Are you saying that there is not a large portion of the population
that are not perpetually in a welfare state? Who have never given
back to society but have been takers all their lives? THOSE are the
people I have a problem with.

I know there are people who are in trouble financially because of
medical expenses. I work for a guy now whose wife has maxed out her
lifetime credit and he is responsible for all of her expenses for the
rest of her life, and she has not even reached 50 yet. She has a long
way to go. I understand.

Listen, you are getting unreasonable. You are more or less saying
that people who suck money out of the system and never give back do
not exist or only make up a small fraction of our society.

As far as the rich, tell me one member of our Senate or Congress who
is not obscenely rich? There is no way they understand what is going
on in the lives of middle class Americans let alone the lower class.

Tell me how the "rich people" have gutted the country? These rich
people are the ones who also own businesses and employ people. Of
course, that is lost on somebody who is so far over the edge that it
is scary.

The biggest thing I have a problem with is the fact that this bill has
more-or-less completely broken the back of our constitution and the
government our founding fathers created way back when. I want our
Republic back. I am sick and tired of people telling me what I can
do, should do, will do. But just because I don't want to have people
bully me around, like your screaming words above, doesn't mean I hate
people or mankind. Whenever you need to lower your standard of living
substantially so that you are on the same level as everybody else,
that is socialism. And if it keeps up, eventually the only "rich"
people will be the people in the government, then what do you have?

By the way, are you saying that the thoughts and opinions of somebody
who lived in public housing and received welfare are way off base
because his father had the audacity to lift himself by his bootstraps
and pull himself out of receiving charity and put himself and his
family in the position to provide charity to those who needed it (if
they so chose)? Because he thinks that there are too many people now
who are taking advantage of the situation and not using it as an
opportunity to get a firm foundation and take a step out of that
misery?

I personally think it is the goal of extreme progressives to put as
many people into the situation that they NEED the government to
survive. The more tax recipients that are there, the more they need
the government, and the longer these bozos stay in power.

Here is another quote from the guy Gordon quoted earlier. You can see
this and many others at this URL: http://www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3603


"Healthca Okay, you say, you´ve got me here. Everyone knows what
healthcare means, right? Sure. But what are the parameters? Any honest
economist will tell you that the cheaper a desired good or service is,
the more the demand for it is. And if it´s free, the demand goes way
up. (Why don´t teenagers turn off the TV and lights, or shut the door
when they come in? Because electricity and heat are a "free good" for
them—they aren´t paying the bills.")

As healthcare gets cheaper, people use more of it. Which is why
insurance companies want deductibles and co-payments.

I want my employer to have a doctor in our office, who will be
available at a moment´s notice if I feel ill, give me a physical once
a month, run a CT & MRI every three months and dispenses no-cost
prescriptions to me as needed—or as desired. Ridiculous, you say? Why
would you say that? It certainly qualifies as good "healthcare" and
did not candidate Obama say that "Healthcare is a Right"? So, I only
want my rights here. And I want it to be affordable—I want someone
else to pay for it.

With a nod to Maggie Thatcher, the problem with "affordable" is you
eventually run out of other people´s money to pay for everything you
want to be able to afford."



That last line is the best: "...the problem with "affordable" is you
eventually run out of other people´s money to pay for everything you
want to be able to afford."

On Mar 23, 11:55*am, Jack Stein wrote:
Upscale wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:23:35 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

get Medicare.
Idiot. *Medicare is not for the indigent. *In fact it is for the
_wealthiest_ group.

Big deal, so I made a mistake between Medicare and Medicaid.

That's minor compared to the rest of your half-assed thoughts.

The

question remains the same. How many of you assholes would happily go
through bankruptcy for health care? I can confidently say that no one
would.

No one ever had to go bankrupt for great medical care in the US.

Isn't it funny how almost everybody in the US that is against
universal health care is currently protected by some sort of medical
plan?

Ain't it funny that everyone enjoying the best health care on earth has
been sharing that care with the few that can't enjoy it on their own dime?

What about all those literally millions and millions of US
citizens that aren't covered by anything? They're your people and they
are part of what makes the US such a great nation. Don't they deserve
some sort of health protection.

Not ONE person in the US has not been eligible for medical care in the
past. * The US has free medical for the indigent. *Not one indigent
person in the US cannot get Medicade.

If you were not indigent, but had no medical insurance, they had the
spend down medical program. *That meant if you made $5,000 a month, and
had medical bill for say $10,000 in a month, you could get Medicade.
Even if you were a millionaire, *you could still get Medicade if the
monthly expense *minus your monthly income was less the poverty level
for income. *This virtually made every single US citizen in need
eligible for free medical care, based on need.

I once stated that the most important human right was to be healthy.

Yeah, how's that working for you?

Mill jumped in and stated that it was freedom. The fact is that
illness and especially chronic illness without health care is a loss
of freedom that the healthy can never possibly comprehend.

Up your ass. *In the US, everyone had medical care available to them,
and not just medical care, but the best medical care on earth, period.
This was made available by very healthy, very rich Americans.

The socialist *******s that took over the democratic party have just
reduced US medical to the arm pits of England and Canada, and the ONLY
reason is to empower the central government to enslave us. *It has
NOTHING to do with free medical care.

--
Jack
Obama Care...Freedom not Included!http://jbstein.com


Well said, Jack.

And the biggest problem that nobody is addressing is the fact that
NOTHING IS FREE!

Then liberals will say that is is only FAIR. We all want to be fair,
but what does fair mean?

Suppose four guys go out to lunch, and split the check four ways. Is
that fair? Suppose one had a tuna sandwich, and another had lobster?
Then maybe it would be fair to say that each pays for what he eats?
But suppose one of the guys makes $100,000 a year and the others make
only $50,000. Would it be fair to say the one who makes the big bucks
should pay twice what the others do, regardless of what he eats,
because he makes more? You probably wouldn´t think it was "fair" to
ask your friend to pay for your meal, though an increasing voting bloc
feels it is very fair to ask other people to pay for things they want.

Let´s take another example. Suppose 100 adults with jobs live on your
street. And you get together and decide that it would be wonderful if
you had a new playground that would cost about $10,000. So you vote
and the new playground wins.

Then you have to vote how much each person should chip in to buy the
playground, and the vote goes like this:

- Five of the adults are charged a total of $6,000 for the playground
everyone will use.

- Another 45 of the adults have to get together and chip in an
additional $3,700.

- And the last 50 adults have to pool their resources and come up
with $300 between them.

Is that fair? (That was the US tax code in 2006.)

Well, President Obama and his Social Democrat Party said no way is
that fair.

Those five people have to come up with a lot more money than just
$6,000, so the 45 pay less, and the 50 who were paying $300 now pay
nothing.

Under that help-the-rich guy George Bush and the Republicans in 2006,
5% of Americans—those with incomes over $153,000, paid 60% of the
taxes, while the bottom 50% of Americans paid 3%. (IRS figures.)

Once more than 50% of the public pay nothing, what is to stop them
from voting to take everything from those who pay more?

And all in the name of being fair.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 05:20:47 -0700 (PDT), busbus
wrote:

The bottom line is that for every example of somebody who is getting
screwed and losing everything because of medical problems, we can
probably find FIFTY or more examples of people who are abusing the
public assistance programs that are already in place. Clean out the
garbage that is abusing the system that we have already established
and you will find more than enough money to fund this health care bill
AND to reduce taxes for every American.

Where are your statistics? Where are your factual records? How
*Exactly* does "probably find fifty more examples" turn into a proven
fact? All, I've heard from the "whiners" and "I'm being taxed to
death" is how the public assistance abusers are destroying the system.
Have ANY of you once mentioned the alternative? For every example of
somebody who is getting screwed and losing everything because of
medical problems, there are FIFTY or more example of greedy people
gutting the system for PROFIT. How many millions, billions and even
trillions of dollars have been stolen by people in positions of trust,
positions of managing huge amounts of money and places where lax
controls let people take what they want?

You read about them everyday, the few who have actually been caught.
Then there's a flood of charges and court cases and the person is
sentenced. BUT, have you noticed that the money is almost always gone?

How MANY thousands of times have these thefts happened? Yet, all you
whining miscreants do is blame the indigent and welfare bums. The
people who don't have the skills or wherewith all to steal and hide
such large sums of money.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO BLAME SOME GROUP FOR GUTTING THE COUNTRY, THEN
YOU'D BETTER MAKE DAMNED SURE THAT YOU BLAME THE RIGHT PEOPLE.

ALL YOU'VE DONE SO FAR IS USE THE INDIGENT AS SCAPEGOATS WHILE THE
REAL THIEVES BASK IN OBSCENELY RICH OBSCURITY.

You "complainers" aren't men. You're whiney little boys crying that
you've been screwed by the system while you sit back and blame the
easiest target available. Grow up and consider which truth is more
likely, that the welfare bums of your nation have stolen all your
money or the people in positions of trust have been more greedy that
any one of you can comprehend?

On 3/23/2010 2:33 AM, Chris Friesen wrote:
On 03/22/2010 05:48 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:

As a Canadian I understand the problems of a socialized medical system.
The response from a specialist here today to someone close to me when
asked to book a colonoscopy was "Sure, we can put you on the list, but
don't hold your breath."

I'm a Canadian too. So far my own experiences and that of my family has
been pretty good.

My father-in-law had two hip replacements when his mobility was
impacted. My aging and diabetic aunt-in-law had what appears to be
excellent care after a heart attack and several follow-up incidents. My
brother had orthoscopic knee surgery when some cartilage came loose. I
had steel pins pulled out of my knuckles after an accident abroad. My
wife and I spent days in the hospital (many hours in a jacuzzi tub) for
our first child and are using a midwife (also covered) for our second.

To be fair, we had to wait months to see a pediatric
gastrointestinologist. My sister had quite a wait to see a
dermatologist. Both were non-life-threatening issues, though annoying.

Given that financial resources are limited, nothing is ever going to be
perfect. You can lean towards providing coverage for everyone but maybe
not the best (especially in remote communities). Alternately you can
provide really great (but really expensive) coverage for a smaller
number of people. Or maybe there's a third way where we take a long
hard look at the system and try and figure out better ways of doing
it--neither the USA nor Canada does very well in the
health-care-results-per-dollar-spent charts. I suspect there's some
sort of asymptotic curve going on.

Where I think it's going to get interesting all over is as the baby
boomers get older and us genX and genY folks get left holding the bag.

Chris

Why does limited resource mean you have to wait. When I realized that I
was passing blood, I went to the Doctor that day and had a colonoscopy a
couple of days later. But this was in the United States with what we
are told is our "horrible" health care system. Any body regardless of
economic condition can go into a hospital and recieve treatment.

You have to wait months for procedures because there are significantly
less doctors per 1000 people in Canada than in the US.

"Keith Nuttle" wrote

Why does limited resource mean you have to wait. When I realized that I
was passing blood, I went to the Doctor that day and had a colonoscopy a
couple of days later. But this was in the United States with what we are
told is our "horrible" health care system. Any body regardless of
economic condition can go into a hospital and recieve treatment.

You have to wait months for procedures because there are significantly
less doctors per 1000 people in Canada than in the US.


Passing blood is the key word here. A routine checkup can have a wait of a
few months here. Of course, that is not a big deal for the 5 or 10 year
exam.

Same with an MRI. I had a choice of a time weeks away during "normal "
hours, or I could go at 3 AM the next day.

Upscale wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:23:17 -0400, vonKevin

Feeble attempt at putting words in my mouth. I'm saying that there
should be a basic level of medicine available to everybody who needs
it no matter what wage they earn.

So you like the system we had in the US?

After that, if someone wants
something more than the basic standard then they're free to go buy it.

What if they don't have any money?

AND, that is exactly the system that many countries operate under,
including Canada.

The more we learn of your ****ed up system, and England's, and Italy's
and on and on, the more wonderment at the excellence of the US health
care system.

Should someone want additional aid not covered under
the existing Canadian standard, then they can and often do head down
to the US to buy it.

Those days are about gone. 18 - 24 months should about do it. The good
news is Robocop will be stuck with his own ****ed up system. More good
news is with the death of robust US medical research and development,
the socialist governments of Canada and the US will not have to do much
to keep up with rapid advancement in medical care.

That is NOT what currently exists in the US since there are millions
without ANY medical protection whatsoever.

You know this how?

People should be treated equally under the law, naturally - but people
are NOT equal, and never will be, and artificial methods to force them
to be equal have been repeadedly proven ineffective.

You're right, people are not treated equally. But money and power are
poor tools to differentiate equality.

You mean like the money that rich Canadians use to run on down to the US
to PAY for timely, or advanced medical care?

It's a travesty to even believe that.

The Canadian system is indeed a travesty.

Thousands of your young, less affluent people go off in your
armed services and are killed regularly. The rich and powerful sit
back and benefit from this sacrifice.

Your right, but they also die for the handicapped, sick, poor and yes,
****ed up Canadians....

What exactly makes the rich and powerful more deserving of life?
I'm kind of dumb so I'd appreciate if you explained that one to me.

Very difficult to explain something so simple to someone so, in your
words, "dumb"

If I had more money than you, does that make me better than you? I
might be a thief and a mass murderer, but I'm better than you because
I can buy more than you can? Ridiculous assumption, but that's
essentially what you're saying to me. Being able to pay for something
is not and never will be the defining benchmark for equality or being
more equal or more deserving ~ not in a civilized society anyway.

Get it through your thick head, nobody is equal. Everyone is different.
The fact you are a cripple, unable to do much of anything, or that
I'm an old fart, unable to do much does not make me or you equal to
Leon, who can whip out a deluxe bedroom set for his wife, in his spare
time.
Perhaps you think Leon should be forced to build your wife the same
thing? Or Swingman should build you a new house out of hay bales?

--
Jack
The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.
http://jbstein.com

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:55:57 -0400, Jack Stein
wrote:


The socialist *******s that took over the democratic party have just
reduced US medical to the arm pits of England and Canada, and the ONLY
reason is to empower the central government to enslave us. It has
NOTHING to do with free medical care.

Not surprisingly, you're one of the most practiced whiners of all.
How's that working out for you Jack-ass?

Robatoy wrote:
On Mar 22, 5:23 pm, vonKevin wrote:

You be sure & let me know when you feel the need to go see a Cardiac
Surgeon who gets paid the same as the moron flipping burgers down at
McFood, Comrade.

Sounds to me you already have been misdiagnosed at the mental health
clinic.

Sounds like a typical Robocop bull**** attack.

NOBODY is denying anybody the right to upgrade their basic health
package.

What sort of free government health care can you Canuks upgrade if you
have a pocketful of cash? Slithering down to the US for the worlds best
health care doesn't count as that will soon be as ****ed up as yours.

Your premise is so ****ed as to be laughable, Kevin in Indy.

You laugh at the dumbest things.

But I will tell you something, that moron flipping burgers is likely
to have a better moral outlook than your bigoted version thereof.

And this is based on what, your delusions of grandeur?

You, sir, are an asshole.

Well said Robocop. Perhaps if he chooses to make you look even more
foolish, he will progress to "douche nozzle"

When you are capable of rational thought, please come visit again.

More vitriolic drivel.

In
the meantime, the burger flipper probably has more right to his/her
paycheck than you do to yours.

Probably, but you know this how? I think you just like talking out of
your ass...

--
Jack
The Problem with Socialism is you eventually run out of Other Peoples Money!

If You Think Health Care is Expensive now, Wait Until it's FREE!
http://jbstein.com

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:06:07 -0700 (PDT), busbus
wrote:
Listen, you are getting unreasonable. You are more or less saying
that people who suck money out of the system and never give back do
not exist or only make up a small fraction of our society.

I didn't even come close to saying that they didn't exist. What I was
saying was that corporate greed and the scramble for profit outdo the
cost of welfare bums by an immense margin.

How many times have you read about a company being bailed out while at
the same time, their senior staff have been paid a golden handshake of
some type numbering in the millions of dollars?

How many times has the same thing happened when a company goes into
bankruptcy, senior staff get their "performance" bonuses and thousands
are laid off without a cent?

Hell, it happens up here in Canada too. Look at Nortel. Huge
performance bonuses get paid out, the company closes it's doors and
thousands are out on their butt with no job and less chance of finding
one.

Explain to me how all these things are allowed to happen and then the
logic of blaming it all on welfare cheats. Then maybe we can attempt
some type of logical conversation.

Robatoy wrote:
On Mar 22, 8:00 pm, "
wrote:

You are a moron. I
understand uppity, he wants something for nothing.

OOooooooooo clever stuff there Skippy...

Skippy? Rather weak coming from you... He pointed out you're a moron,
least you could do is call him an "asshole" or a douche bag, not quite
"douche nozzle" level but you're expected to perform at even your low
level of ability.

Perhaps you could find a spelling error or typo?

--
Jack
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity!
http://jbstein.com

Mark & Juanita wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:

, so hang on and enjoy the ride.

Nyet, comrade.


Those legislators who have decided to govern against the will of the
people (anywhere from 60 to 80% opposition depending upon the poll) have
sown the wind. They can expect to reap the whirlwind come November.

Depends on how many fake voter registrations ACORN can get going so the
votes don't exceed the number of registered voters., and if the
socialist *******s can get the illegal alien vote legalized... well,
it's over.

--
Jack
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong
enough to take everything you have".
-- Thomas Jefferson
http://jbstein.com

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:18:50 -0400, Jack Stein
wrote:
The fact you are a cripple, unable to do much of anything, or that
I'm an old fart, unable to do much does not make me or you equal to
Leon, who can whip out a deluxe bedroom set for his wife, in his spare
time.

No dip****. That fact that I'm a cripple as you've chosen to phrase
it, means that EVERY DAY, I do MORE than you just to be considered on
par with assholes like you. I do more and I have to spend more money
to even approach what you mistakenly think that you deserve.

Only difference is that I don't spend my time complaining about it
whereas you spend most of your time whining that you're being cheated
or ripped off.

Perhaps you think Leon should be forced to build your wife the same
thing? Or Swingman should build you a new house out of hay bales?

Well, considering the skills that Leon and Swingman have, I need to
work three times as hard with my woodworking just to feel that I can
talk to them on an equal footing. That's also something that is not
within your grasp to comprehend. Like some of your country men, you're
arrogant based solely on a mistaken sense of entitlement.

Bob Martin wrote:
Should someone want additional aid not covered under
the existing Canadian standard, then they can and often do head down
to the US to buy it.

I just don't understand why Canadians should need to go to the USA.

There are a number of reasons. One is they don't want to wait months
for a CAT scan when you can get one yesterday in the US.

Another might be that, according to Dr. Anne Doig, president of the
Canadian Medical Association, said her country’s health care system is
“sick” and “imploding,”.

Socialism just doesn't work very well.

--
Jack
“My grandfather always said that living is like licking honey off a thorn.”
http://jbstein.com

Han wrote:

I'm also in favor of teaching birth control to kids.

You're not allowed to teach your kids birth control?

Where *do* you live?

--
Jack
Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.
http://jbstein.com

busbus wrote:
His
father got steady work and while they were never what you could ever
call rich, they got out of public housing into an apartment and,
eventually, into a small house on Pittsburgh's North Side.

They were very, very lucky. The black family has been decimated by the
socialist *******s in this country, and ironically, the blacks have been
solidly in support of the very *******s that has screwed with them to
such an extent. Actually, not very ironic as those who enslave you are
eventually and quickly held in places of honor. That's just how it is.

He indicated that all public assistant programs were based upon the
theory that the people who receive the assistance will receive it
TEMPORARILY but an unintended consequence was that people started to
think they were ENTITLED to this assistance and used it as a crutch
and now several generations deep, these families are still sucking
from the system and giving absolutely nothing back to it.

I know you might think this was an *unintended consequence* of the
welfare state, but you would be wrong. This was, and is, very much
intended. Learn something about Cloward and Piven and you will find out
some of what this great society bull**** was all about. It's not about
helping anyone, and, just like ObamaCare, it is all about control, not
about helping anyone, other than those in control.

There were a lot more things we talked about and he opened my eyes a
lot to a time before I was born and a time when I was just a little
kid who knew nothing about the adult world. If my money were used to
fund people who could not afford to pay for one reason or another,
okay. I have no problem with that, as long as that person is
appreciative and it helps them become a contributing member of OUR
society.

Nice of you, but mostly, as administered by the socialist *******s, all
it does is enslave people, making them more, and more dependent on the
controllers (big government)

The bottom line is that for every example of somebody who is getting
screwed and losing everything because of medical problems, we can
probably find FIFTY or more examples of people who are abusing the
public assistance programs that are already in place. Clean out the
garbage that is abusing the system that we have already established
and you will find more than enough money to fund this health care bill
AND to reduce taxes for every American.

Not a chance in hell.

--
Jack
Got Change: More Government, More Taxes, Less Freedom!
http://jbstein.com

busbus wrote:
On Mar 23, 12:32 pm, Upscale wrote:

Listen, you are getting unreasonable.

You are talking to Upscale.... why so surprised?

As far as the rich, tell me one member of our Senate or Congress who
is not obscenely rich? There is no way they understand what is going
on in the lives of middle class Americans let alone the lower class.

I think they understand a little, but they sure as hell don't care. They
are mostly freaking lawyers don'tcha know.

Tell me how the "rich people" have gutted the country? These rich
people are the ones who also own businesses and employ people. Of
course, that is lost on somebody who is so far over the edge that it
is scary.

Again, Upscale.... mostly hot air and babble...

The biggest thing I have a problem with is the fact that this bill has
more-or-less completely broken the back of our constitution and the
government our founding fathers created way back when.

This has been going on for the last 100 years, accelerated quite a bit
by our recent and current socialist/communist administrations.

I want our Republic back. I am sick and tired of people telling me what I can
do, should do, will do.

How do you feel about gestapo road blocks (aka DUI checks)? How about
banning smoking from privately owned bars and pool halls and businesses?
How about government owned sports stadiums, government owned car
companies (one of which was stolen right out of my greedy little hands
not to mention my retirement funds hands) or government owned transit
systems and parking lots.... Most of this socialist crap has occurred
in the last few years, but I doubt the government will ever give any of
it up w/o lots and lots and lots and lots of bloodshed. There are
almost no Americans willing to die for freedom anymore, so it's more
than likely over. Welcome to government control, wave goodbye to
freedom.... well, perhaps one more chance in November, but don't hold
your breath.

But just because I don't want to have people
bully me around, like your screaming words above, doesn't mean I hate
people or mankind.

Hate is the common ground of the socialist *******s you are talking
with. Socialists have killed 100's of millions of people, mostly their
own, in the last century. The US has managed to keep them off our soil
(and Canada and Mexico) until recently, but that is about over, so no
one will be left to stomp on their nasty little hearts.

Whenever you need to lower your standard of living
substantially so that you are on the same level as everybody else,
that is socialism. And if it keeps up, eventually the only "rich"
people will be the people in the government, then what do you have?

Once they run out of other peoples money to steal, the killing starts...

By the way, are you saying that the thoughts and opinions of somebody
who lived in public housing and received welfare are way off base
because his father had the audacity to lift himself by his bootstraps
and pull himself out of receiving charity and put himself and his
family in the position to provide charity to those who needed it (if
they so chose)? Because he thinks that there are too many people now
who are taking advantage of the situation and not using it as an
opportunity to get a firm foundation and take a step out of that
misery?

He's not smart enough to say any of that, but it's not so easy to run
against the current. When the government turns entire communities into
dependents, the dependents tend to get antsy when anyone tries to
interfere with the freebees they've grown accustom too getting. It's
human nature and has worked wonders for the socialists (democrats) that
control the country.

I personally think it is the goal of extreme progressives to put as
many people into the situation that they NEED the government to
survive. The more tax recipients that are there, the more they need
the government, and the longer these bozos stay in power.

I see you didn't need my last post to you. This is exactly right, other
than the "extreme" adjective. Progressives are simply "progressing"
towards something and that is communism, and extreme is understood:-)

--
Jack
If You Think Health Care is Expensive now, Wait Until it's FREE!
http://jbstein.com

Upscale wrote:

Not surprisingly, you're one of the most practiced whiners of all.
How's that working out for you Jack-ass?

Working well. I suggest you ring up your blow hard partner, robocop and
find some better responses. He came up with some good ones you might
use... douche nozzle was a good one, Skippy, not so much....

--
Jack
Somewhere In Kenya, a Village is Missing it's IDIOT!
http://jbstein.com

Jack Stein wrote:

No one ever had to go bankrupt for great medical care in the US.

There's a lot of people that filed for bankruptcy needlessly. 60% of
bankruptcies in the US are due to medical bills according to:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/06/05...medical.bills/

Not ONE person in the US has not been eligible for medical care in the
past. The US has free medical for the indigent. Not one indigent
person in the US cannot get Medicade.

From: http://assets.aarp.org/rgcenter/heal...r_medicaid.pdf

"Medicaid eligibility is limited to
individuals who fall into specified
categories. Although federal law
identifies over 25 different eligibility
categories, these can be grouped into five
broad coverage categories: children;
pregnant women; adults in families with
dependent children; individuals with
disabilities; and the elderly. In addition to
categorical eligibility, persons must also
meet income and asset requirements, as
well as immigration and residency
requirements"

The way I read that is that only five groups of people are eligible for
Medicaid. That's a long way from everyone.

If you were not indigent, but had no medical insurance, they had the
spend down medical program. That meant if you made $5,000 a month, and
had medical bill for say $10,000 in a month, you could get Medicade.
Even if you were a millionaire, you could still get Medicade if the
monthly expense minus your monthly income was less the poverty level
for income. This virtually made every single US citizen in need
eligible for free medical care, based on need.

Do you have a reference for this?

-- Doug

On Mar 23, 4:22*pm, Jack Stein wrote:
I personally think it is the goal of extreme progressives to put as
many people into the situation that they NEED the government to
survive. *The more tax recipients that are there, the more they need
the government, and the longer these bozos stay in power.

I see you didn't need my last post to you. *This is exactly right, other
than the "extreme" adjective. *Progressives are simply "progressing"
towards something and that is communism, and extreme is understood:-)


Yup! You are right: I didn't need that post! LOL!!

I think the progressives play into the emotions of people. Hell, it
is terrible seeing people who are down and out but, WTF? That will go
on and on forevermore. We will always have the poor and needy among
us. We will always have the widow and the orphan, so to speak. And,
yes, in these extreme cases, a little help is necessary but only
enough to get these people into the position to add to society, not
suck from others. All of the liberals I talk to are so damn myopic
and cling to the terrible things they see and hear and read about from
the media in this country. Dontcha know that stuff SELLS??

Like i have been opining: I want to go back to our real form of
government--a REPUBLIC. People think we are a democracy and we are
NOT. The founding fathers did not want a democracy. Thomas Jefferson
aid this about democracies: "A democracy is nothing more than mob
rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights
of the other forty-nine." And he was right and IS right!

John Adams said this about a democracy: "Democracy... while it lasts
is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember,
democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders
itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide."

And as for what happened on Sunday and this morning, with the
Democrats ramming something down the throats of the American people
even thought we did not want it, Jefferson said this: "Every
government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone.
The people themselves are its only safe depositories."

And Adams would have had this to say: "Power always thinks... that it
is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws."

Ugh. I am sick of this debate. But I am not going to roll over and
play dead and let the progressives take away this country of mine
without a fight.

On Mar 23, 1:44*pm, Jack Stein wrote:
Robatoy wrote:
On Mar 22, 5:23 pm, vonKevin wrote:
You be sure & let me know when you feel the need to go see a Cardiac
Surgeon who gets paid the same as the moron flipping burgers down at
McFood, Comrade.
Sounds to me you already have been misdiagnosed at the mental health
clinic.

Sounds like a typical Robocop bull**** attack.

NOBODY is denying anybody the right to upgrade their basic health
package.

What sort of free government health care can you Canuks upgrade if you
have a pocketful of cash? *Slithering down to the US for the worlds best
health care doesn't count as that will soon be as ****ed up as yours.

Your premise is so ****ed as to be laughable, Kevin in Indy.

You laugh at the dumbest things.

But I will tell you something, that moron flipping burgers is likely
to have a better moral outlook than your bigoted version thereof.

And this is based on what, your delusions of grandeur?

You, sir, are an asshole.

Well said Robocop. *Perhaps if he chooses to make you look even more
foolish, he will progress to "douche nozzle"

When you are capable of rational thought, please come visit again.

More vitriolic drivel.

In
the meantime, the burger flipper probably has more right to his/her
paycheck than you do to yours.

Probably, but you know this how? *I think you just like talking out of
your ass...

--
Jack
The Problem with Socialism is you eventually run out of Other Peoples Money!

If You Think Health Care is Expensive now, Wait Until it's FREE!http://jbstein.com

Step away from that bottle, Jack. You are making a fool out of
yourself.

On Mar 23, 4:22*pm, Jack Stein wrote:

[snipped incoherent hate babble]

It's always a hoot when Jack falls off the wagon.

Upscale wrote:
On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:18:50 -0400, Jack Stein
wrote:
The fact you are a cripple, unable to do much of anything, or that
I'm an old fart, unable to do much does not make me or you equal to
Leon, who can whip out a deluxe bedroom set for his wife, in his spare
time.

No dip****. That fact that I'm a cripple as you've chosen to phrase
it, means that EVERY DAY, I do MORE than you just to be considered on
par with assholes like you.

I'm more of a douche-nozzle but whatever flicks your bic.

I do more and I have to spend more money
to even approach what you mistakenly think that you deserve.

What do I think I deserve? Please enlighten me.

Only difference is that I don't spend my time complaining about it
whereas you spend most of your time whining that you're being cheated
or ripped off.

I'm the last one on earth that thinks he's being cheated or ripped off.
You just make **** up as you go....

Perhaps you think Leon should be forced to build your wife the same
thing? Or Swingman should build you a new house out of hay bales?

Well, considering the skills that Leon and Swingman have, I need to
work three times as hard with my woodworking just to feel that I can
talk to them on an equal footing.

You can't, but that's another issue. Do you think it's fair that you
have to work 3 times as hard to be on equal footing with those two? All
you seem to do is whine endlessly about your handicap, and how everyone
should feel happy to support you. I never minded helping people that
can't help themselves, but I have no use for people that expect it, and
think its some sort of god given right.

That's also something that is not within your grasp to comprehend.

You're right, I can't comprehend how someone can expect others to
support him, and have no appreciation for those that do.

Like some of your country men, you're
arrogant based solely on a mistaken sense of entitlement.

Damn are you ever dumb....

--
Jack
What one person receives without working for, another person must work
for without receiving.
http://jbstein.com

Robatoy wrote:

Step away from that bottle, Jack. You are making a fool out of
yourself.

Nice reply, Skippy!

Weaker than normal, but still worthless.
--
Jack
"I'm not as dumb as you look."
http://jbstein.com

Robatoy wrote:

[snipped incoherent hate babble]

It's always a hoot when Jack falls off the wagon.

Translation: Robocop is too freaking dumb to muster a meaningful
response. Which in his case means he ran out of childish, vitriolic
invective.

Also, my spell checker must be working...

--
Jack
Somewhere In Kenya, a Village is Missing it's IDIOT!
http://jbstein.com

busbus wrote:

Like i have been opining: I want to go back to our real form of
government--a REPUBLIC. People think we are a democracy and we are
NOT.

Could you explain the difference to me? Are you saying we are not a
representative democracy? Thanks -- Doug

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

Fact is, I'm experienced dealing with prejudiced, bigoted crybabies
like you on a regular basis.

Case in point.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:53:40 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:

In article , Keith Nuttle
wrote:

You have to wait months for procedures because there are significantly
less doctors per 1000 people in Canada than in the US.

I suggest you do a little research before you blindingly jump on
Nuttle's incorrect bandwagon.

The current number of physicians per people in Canada is NOT
significantly different. Despite spending more per capita, the U.S.
does not deliver better medical care than many other countries.

26 Number of physicians per 10,000 people in the United States
19 Number of physicians per 10,000 people in Canada

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/story.html?id=1894853

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
On 3/23/2010 1:54 AM, LDosser wrote:
"CW" wrote in message
...

"LDosser" wrote in message
...

Illegal Aliens. They deserve a bus ride to the Mexican border.


It's been tried. They generally beat the bus back.


Razor wire backed by an electric fence - the kind the Gestapo used.

And yet somehow Chuck Yeager and thousands of other downed airmen managed
to walk out of occupied Europe. Their "razor wire backed by an electric
fence" wasn't even effective in keeping people inside a prison.





Apples and Oranges

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
On 3/23/2010 7:58 AM, Tom B wrote:


"LDosser" wrote in message
...
"Upscale" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:23:35 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

get Medicare.

Idiot. Medicare is not for the indigent. In fact it is for the
_wealthiest_ group.

Big deal, so I made a mistake between Medicare and Medicaid. The
question remains the same. How many of you assholes would happily go
through bankruptcy for health care? I can confidently say that no one
would.

Isn't it funny how almost everybody in the US that is against
universal health care is currently protected by some sort of medical
plan? What about all those literally millions and millions of US
citizens that aren't covered by anything? They're your people and they
are part of what makes the US such a great nation. Don't they deserve
some sort of health protection.

Illegal Aliens. They deserve a bus ride to the Mexican border.

Amen... twice before in our history, that's what they got. It's time for
a re-do!

I'd rather give the entire population of DC a bus ride to the Mexican
border.



While Congress is in session!

But someone will call you a racist, as 90% or so of the DC population is
Black.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:53:40 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:

In article , Keith Nuttle
wrote:

You have to wait months for procedures because there are significantly
less doctors per 1000 people in Canada than in the US.

I suggest you do a little research before you blindingly jump on
Nuttle's incorrect bandwagon.

The current number of physicians per people in Canada is NOT
significantly different. Despite spending more per capita, the U.S.
does not deliver better medical care than many other countries.

26 Number of physicians per 10,000 people in the United States
19 Number of physicians per 10,000 people in Canada

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/story.html?id=1894853


So the US has 37% MORE doctors per capita than Canada! Sounds pretty
significant.

On Mar 23, 5:25*pm, Jack Stein wrote:
Robatoy wrote:
[snipped incoherent hate babble]
It's always a hoot when Jack falls off the wagon.

Translation: *Robocop is too freaking dumb to muster a meaningful
response. *Which in his case means he ran out of childish, vitriolic
invective.

Also, my spell checker must be working...

--
Jack
Somewhere In Kenya, a Village is Missing it's IDIOT!http://jbstein.com

Jack, please read this when you're sober again:

WHY would I muster a meaningful response to your posts, eh? What would
be the point?
For openers, my Mac doesn't have the Crayon font, and I really, truly
have nothing to say to you.
You have blatantly exposed yourself to what you are and aren't.
What really makes me happy is that you keep mentioning the 'douche-
nozzle' label I gave you.
I must have cut you a little, eh?

"Jack Stein" wrote in message
...
Mark & Juanita wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:

, so hang on and enjoy the ride.

Nyet, comrade.


Those legislators who have decided to govern against the will of the
people (anywhere from 60 to 80% opposition depending upon the poll) have
sown the wind. They can expect to reap the whirlwind come November.

Depends on how many fake voter registrations ACORN can get going so the
votes don't exceed the number of registered voters., and if the socialist
*******s can get the illegal alien vote legalized... well, it's over.

ACORN is Folding.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:07:55 -0400, Jack Stein
wrote:

you seem to do is whine endlessly about your handicap, and how everyone
should feel happy to support you. I never minded helping people that

So when you're argument flops completely, you resort to lying. Hardly
surprising. Guess that's what myopic little men like you do to have a
life.

And, a truly feeble attempt to get some type of angry reply out of me.
Fact is, I'm experienced dealing with prejudiced, bigoted crybabies
like you on a regular basis. You seem to enjoy playing the fool in
front of everybody and I really do appreciate the opportunity of
pointing it out.

Thanks.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:06:07 -0700, busbus wrote:

The biggest thing I have a problem with is the fact that this bill has
more-or-less completely broken the back of our constitution and the
government our founding fathers created way back when.

I'm getting a little tired of this specious argument. When the
Constitution was written, medical care consisted of setting bones,
amputating gangrenous limbs, and bloodletting. Everything else was home
remedies. And I forgot, treating STDs with mercury. They didn't even
know what bacteria were. And sterilizing instruments? Hah!

Of course there was no provision for helth care - it didn't exist.

And if they had put something in it would only have applied to white male
property owners.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:48:20 -0700, "CW"
wrote:

"Upscale" wrote in message
.. .

Fact is, I'm experienced dealing with prejudiced, bigoted crybabies
like you on a regular basis.

Case in point.

Maybe. But when another word doesn't immediately come to mind that's
as suited to say the same thing, then you work with what you've got.
And, it still doesn't suggest for one second that the original
connotation of the word does not apply to Jack-ass Stein. It's so
obvious that he's a home grown bigot of the worst kind that it's
almost not necessary to say it. He reeks of the smell of the word.

On 3/22/2010 11:47 AM, Robatoy wrote:
On Mar 22, 11:47 am, wrote:


Liberals ... just as long as it's not their money!

Come on now Karl, the Libtards don't have an exclusive on that.

These particular folks wouldn't eat the right wing on a fried chicken if
they were starving to death.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 3/23/2010 7:53 PM, Upscale wrote:

60 Percent of personal bankruptcies caused by health-care costs,
according to the American Journal of Medicine

47 million Number of uninsured people in the United States

15.8 Percentage of Americans without health insurance

11.7 Percentage of American children without health insurance

22 Percent increase in the number of uninsured Americans in 2006 as
compared to 2000

Courtesy of the National Post, U.S. health care by the numbers.
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/story.html?id=1894853


That equals an increase in the national debt of about 2trillion dollars
per year. With the obama plan for the economy the national debt will be
greater that the gross national product and we will all live like the
third world countries whose leaders obama idolizes.

If you do not have a job now forget it.