115V vs 220V
 

What are the advantages of a 220V connection vs a 115V connection for power
tools?

115V vs 220V
 

"Denis Caissie" wrote in message
...
What are the advantages of a 220V connection vs a 115V connection for
power
tools?



Generally you have less voltage drop with 220 which usually equates to not
straining your motor during tough operations.

115V vs 220V
 

Denis Caissie wrote:

What are the advantages of a 220V connection vs a 115V connection for power
tools?


Draws fewer amps on a given wire. Instead of say 15 amps @ 115V, the
load will draw 7.5 amps @ 220V, although it will draw it on two circuits
since to get 220 (actually 230) you would be using a pair of 115V circuits.

115V vs 220V
 

In article , "Denis Caissie" wrote:
What are the advantages of a 220V connection vs a 115V connection for power
tools?

It enables you to use 220V tools. g,d&r

Sorry.

OK, seriously: operating at the higher voltage, a tool draws less current, and
thus there's less power loss. Tools will start faster, and are less likely to
bog down under load.

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115V vs 220V
 

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:32:00 -0500, "Denis Caissie"
wrote:

What are the advantages of a 220V connection vs a 115V connection for power
tools?


A motor running on 220v will start up easier, run smoother/quieter,
last longer, run cooler, use less energy than the motor running on
120v. The differences are more pronounced with larger motors.

115V vs 220V
 

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 00:08:22 GMT, Phisherman wrote:

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:32:00 -0500, "Denis Caissie"
wrote:

What are the advantages of a 220V connection vs a 115V connection for power
tools?


A motor running on 220v will start up easier,

Maybe. It depends on the stiffness of the power source (a 115/20A
motor on a long 12 guage run won't "snap to" as nicely as when it's
sourced with 230V and only drawing 10A). I understand this to be due
mostly to the phase shift from the start capacitor, but I'm no
engineer. But it's also partly due to the high, yet short duration,
current draw (and associated I^2*R losses) at startup.

run smoother/quieter,

Nope. Supply voltage has zero effect on smoothness or quietness. See
dual voltage discussion below.

last longer,

Why? Most dual voltage motors run on windings wired series/parallel
(windings are in series with a source of 230V; parallel with a source
of 115V). In other words, regardless of how they are powered the
windings are always seeing 115V. So how would a motor running with
115V on its windings last any longer than a motor running with 115V on
its windings (or run any smoother/quieter)?

run cooler,

Same as above, except if the supply on 115V is marginal on capacity.
And in that case, the argument could be made that the heat developed
from the less than optimal voltage *might* contribute to shorter life.
However, that anomaly could as easily be remedied by stiffening the
supply as changing to 230V operation.

use less energy than the motor running on 120v.

Nonsense. Watts is watts. A motor running on 115V @ 20 amps uses
exactly the same amount of energy as a motor running on 230V @ 10
amps. P=IE.

The differences are more pronounced with larger motors.

Nope. Except in conjunction with a supply that is less than optimum
(15A circuit instead of 20A or 30A). In that case you're right if you
compare a 2hp motor with a ¼hp motor. But who uses those outside of
squirrel cage fans? That's not what we're talking about anyway.

It's all about the supply. If you had a typical 2hp dual voltage motor
and ran it on an 8 g, 40 amp circuit, you would likely see ZERO
difference in performance whether wired for 115V or 230V.

You won't usually see motors much larger than 2 hp that are capable of
being wired to run on 115V.


- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

115V vs 220V
 

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 01:22:05 +0100, LRod wrote:

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 00:08:22 GMT, Phisherman wrote:

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:32:00 -0500, "Denis Caissie"
wrote:

What are the advantages of a 220V connection vs a 115V connection for power
tools?


A motor running on 220v will start up easier,

Maybe. It depends on the stiffness of the power source (a 115/20A
motor on a long 12 guage run won't "snap to" as nicely as when it's
sourced with 230V and only drawing 10A). I understand this to be due
mostly to the phase shift from the start capacitor, but I'm no
engineer. But it's also partly due to the high, yet short duration,
current draw (and associated I^2*R losses) at startup.

Yup


run smoother/quieter,

Nope. Supply voltage has zero effect on smoothness or quietness. See
dual voltage discussion below.

Yup


last longer,

Why? Most dual voltage motors run on windings wired series/parallel
(windings are in series with a source of 230V; parallel with a source
of 115V). In other words, regardless of how they are powered the
windings are always seeing 115V. So how would a motor running with
115V on its windings last any longer than a motor running with 115V on
its windings (or run any smoother/quieter)?

Well, cuz of the old I^2*R effect in the windings, there will be only 1/4
as much heat generated in the windings and...


run cooler,

Same as above, except if the supply on 115V is marginal on capacity.
And in that case, the argument could be made that the heat developed
from the less than optimal voltage *might* contribute to shorter life.
However, that anomaly could as easily be remedied by stiffening the
supply as changing to 230V operation.

....it will run cooler.


use less energy than the motor running on 120v.

Nonsense. Watts is watts. A motor running on 115V @ 20 amps uses exactly
the same amount of energy as a motor running on 230V @ 10 amps. P=IE.

Yup (within a red one)


The differences are more pronounced with larger motors.

Nope. Except in conjunction with a supply that is less than optimum (15A
circuit instead of 20A or 30A). In that case you're right if you compare
a 2hp motor with a ¼hp motor. But who uses those outside of squirrel
cage fans? That's not what we're talking about anyway.

Yup


It's all about the supply. If you had a typical 2hp dual voltage motor
and ran it on an 8 g, 40 amp circuit, you would likely see ZERO
difference in performance whether wired for 115V or 230V.

Yup (within a red one)


You won't usually see motors much larger than 2 hp that are capable of
being wired to run on 115V.

Yup



- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

-Doug

--
"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always
depend on the support of Paul." - George Bernard Shaw

115V vs 220V
 

Glad to see your post: That last one was making me itch to refute all that
misinformation too, but you did it well. It's amazing sometimes how some
people can rationalize almost anything to whatever position they want.

115V vs 220V
 

"LRod" wrote in message
Why? Most dual voltage motors run on windings wired series/parallel
(windings are in series with a source of 230V; parallel with a source
of 115V). In other words, regardless of how they are powered the
windings are always seeing 115V. So how would a motor running with
115V on its windings last any longer than a motor running with 115V on
its windings (or run any smoother/quieter)?

Delta claims their contractor saw motor is 1.5 HP on 115V and 2 HP on 230V.
How does this figure into the series/parallel in the windings? Or whatever?
Ed

115V vs 220V
 

The biggest reason is current draw. There are less losses in the wires
from the panel to the motor with a 220 V moter drawing 7 amps than there are
with a 115 V motor drawing 14 amps. For the average guy with a shop in the
basement it doesn't mean much at all but if you have a long run of #14 wire
to the motor at 115V you may lose a few volts resulting in less torque.

Rick

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"Denis Caissie" wrote in message
...
What are the advantages of a 220V connection vs a 115V connection for
power
tools?

115V vs 220V
 

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 02:23:53 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"LRod" wrote in message
Why? Most dual voltage motors run on windings wired series/parallel
(windings are in series with a source of 230V; parallel with a source
of 115V). In other words, regardless of how they are powered the
windings are always seeing 115V. So how would a motor running with
115V on its windings last any longer than a motor running with 115V on
its windings (or run any smoother/quieter)?

Delta claims their contractor saw motor is 1.5 HP on 115V and 2 HP on 230V.
How does this figure into the series/parallel in the windings? Or whatever?
Ed

I've seen this claim discussed before. I'll have to plead "ignorant by
internet" on this. All of my motor knowledge (what little of it there
is) has been gleaned from people who I have confidence in who have
posted in various fora. I believe them when they tell me about
series/parallel windings. And although I'm no engineer, I do have a
fairly robust knowledge of electricity, and it makes perfect sense.

Having said that, I cannot fathom the economics of building a motor
that will run on both 115V and 230V yet develop different levels of
power at those two voltages. But then I'm still fascinated by how
toilets flush, so it might not take all that much to stump me.

Frankly, I don't believe Delta's claim. But I'm not a motor guy.
However, I'll ask someone who is. He's a regular poster on a couple of
the woodworking fora and probably the smartes person I know on this
subject.


- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

115V vs 220V
 

snip


last longer,

Why? Most dual voltage motors run on windings wired series/parallel
(windings are in series with a source of 230V; parallel with a source
of 115V). In other words, regardless of how they are powered the
windings are always seeing 115V. So how would a motor running with
115V on its windings last any longer than a motor running with 115V on
its windings (or run any smoother/quieter)?

Well, cuz of the old I^2*R effect in the windings, there will be only 1/4
as much heat generated in the windings and...


I think you are mistaken about the I^2*R effect in the windings. As I
understand it, each winding sees the same voltage and has the same current
flowing through it whether wired in series or parallel, so the power
dissipated by the windings will be the same in either case. The issue of
only needing 1/2 the current when using twice the voltage applies to the
wiring going to the motor.
For example, assume a motor has two windings where each winding draws 8 amps
with 120 volts across it. There are two options on how to supply the power
to the motor:
(1) Connect the windings in parallel; in this case you need to run a 120V
supply to the motor and the total current through the supply wires would be
16 amps (each winding sees a 120V drop and has 8 amps flowing through it).
(2) Connect the windings in series; in this case you need to run a 240V
supply to the motor and the total current through the supply wires will be 8
amps (each winding sees a 120V drop and has 8 amps flowing through it).

BadgerDog

115V vs 220V
 

What else? Will it smell lemony fresh, too?


"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:32:00 -0500, "Denis Caissie"
wrote:

What are the advantages of a 220V connection vs a 115V connection for
power
tools?


A motor running on 220v will start up easier, run smoother/quieter,
last longer, run cooler, use less energy than the motor running on
120v. The differences are more pronounced with larger motors.

115V vs 220V
 

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 04:33:45 +0100, LRod
wrote:

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 02:23:53 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"LRod" wrote in message
Why? Most dual voltage motors run on windings wired series/parallel
(windings are in series with a source of 230V; parallel with a source
of 115V). In other words, regardless of how they are powered the
windings are always seeing 115V. So how would a motor running with
115V on its windings last any longer than a motor running with 115V on
its windings (or run any smoother/quieter)?

Delta claims their contractor saw motor is 1.5 HP on 115V and 2 HP on 230V.
How does this figure into the series/parallel in the windings? Or whatever?
Ed

Frankly, I don't believe Delta's claim. But I'm not a motor guy.
However, I'll ask someone who is. He's a regular poster on a couple of
the woodworking fora and probably the smartes person I know on this
subject.

I did some more checking around. First there was an article following
up an article in Popular Woodworking. Although there's still some
misinformation in it, at the very bottom there is a reference to the
Delta conundrum: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/240V.html
Basically, Delta says there is no performance difference between 115V
and 230V, although they didn't specifically address the different
horsepower claims.

My friend replied with an entirely different perspective that I think
hits the nail on the head:

A NEMA 5-15 duplex single phase 115 Volt wall outlet is rated for 15
amps. The max electrcial power a single phase induction motor can draw
from a 15 Amp 115 Volt outlet is equivalent to the demand of a 1 1/2
HP honestly rated induction motor.

An honestly rated single phase 2 HP motor on 230 volt power typically
draws 11.5 Amps full load current. If connected for 115 Volt, the max
current the motor can be rated to draw from a NEMA 5-15 duplex is 15
Amps. However the motor run to full load ratings could draw 23 Amps.

Let's say some damn lying marketer seeking any conceivable competitive
advantage and an ethical electrical engineer and a tort lawyer had a
meeting to hash out just what claims could be made for a motor U prong
NEMA 5-15 duplex walloutlet. They had to hash out just what could be
safely claimed for their dual voltage cord connected machine and still
satisfy their recent class action suit judgement.

Their decision could be to rate the motor as 2 HP at 230 Volts and
de-rate it to 1 1/2 HP to meet the UL limits of the Wall outlet. Dumb
but bureaucratic.


I'd wager lots of money that's the answer. They're not claiming MORE
hp at 230V; they're claiming LESS at 115V. Tricky.


- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

115V vs 220V
 

In article ,
LRod wrote:

An honestly rated single phase 2 HP motor on 230 volt power typically
draws 11.5 Amps full load current. If connected for 115 Volt, the max
current the motor can be rated to draw from a NEMA 5-15 duplex is 15
Amps. However the motor run to full load ratings could draw 23 Amps.

Been looking at lathes, specifically 3/4HP, all 1-phase induction, 110V.
One claims 6.6A. One claims 9A. One claims 9.8A and another claims 15A.
Some don't bother to list an amperage rating at all. Although there
maybe some efficiency differences, obviously some of these guys are
being really optimistic.

My 2HP TS is 9A@220 or 18A@110.

Lets not even get started on router HP claims or Shop-vacs.

I believe more and more that in this specific instance, the government
should lay down the lay with respect to advertising claims for HP. The
consumer has almost no way to compare machines.

115V vs 220V
 

"Paul Kierstead" wrote in message
rs.com...
In article ,
LRod wrote:

An honestly rated single phase 2 HP motor on 230 volt power typically
draws 11.5 Amps full load current. If connected for 115 Volt, the max
current the motor can be rated to draw from a NEMA 5-15 duplex is 15
Amps. However the motor run to full load ratings could draw 23 Amps.

Been looking at lathes, specifically 3/4HP, all 1-phase induction, 110V.
One claims 6.6A. One claims 9A. One claims 9.8A and another claims 15A.
Some don't bother to list an amperage rating at all. Although there
maybe some efficiency differences, obviously some of these guys are
being really optimistic.

My 2HP TS is 9A@220 or 18A@110.

Lets not even get started on router HP claims or Shop-vacs.

I believe more and more that in this specific instance, the government
should lay down the lay with respect to advertising claims for HP. The
consumer has almost no way to compare machines.

Boy, did you hit on one of my pet peeves!! You're absolutely right to
question the intentions of larks like that. The one that's highest on my
list though is the way they rate vacuum cleaners the last few years: HP was
bad enough, but now they've switched to AMPS as an indication of a machine's
power and abilities. Totally bogus.

Pop

115V vs 220V
 

"LRod" wrote in message


Basically, Delta says there is no performance difference between 115V
and 230V, although they didn't specifically address the different
horsepower claims.

Thee seems to be an implication though, that on 230V you'd be getting more
power. Facts aside, 2 sounds better than 1.5



Let's say some damn lying marketer seeking any conceivable competitive
advantage and an ethical electrical engineer and a tort lawyer had a
meeting

OMIGOSH, I'd skip that dinner party!

to hash out just what claims could be made for a motor U prong
NEMA 5-15 duplex walloutlet. They had to hash out just what could be
safely claimed for their dual voltage cord connected machine and still
satisfy their recent class action suit judgement.

Their decision could be to rate the motor as 2 HP at 230 Volts and
de-rate it to 1 1/2 HP to meet the UL limits of the Wall outlet. Dumb
but bureaucratic.


I'd wager lots of money that's the answer. They're not claiming MORE
hp at 230V; they're claiming LESS at 115V. Tricky.


Yes, interesting and your friend is probably be right. Thanks for the info.
Ed