Okay I am getting ready to make some sliding dovetails, or at least an
attempt at them. ( I am destructing a secretary desk modified for my
use as a humidor, and it calls for sliding dovetails.] Has anyone had
the pleasure of doing a sliding dovetail that is about 24 inches long?
Any suggestions on getting this done properly would be great. I do
have a Bench Dog 150 router table but am not sure that I could keep
the piece (shelf) steady enough to make a good clean route. The shelf
is 3/4 inch stock by about 36 long, by 24 inch wide, glued up of black
walnut. Is there a simple jig that can be made, or is it one
necessary?

Then again maybe I am not ready for this joint but just getting very
prepared.

Thanks for your assistance.

Mikie :-)

My first set of SDs were only 19" long and I was worried about them. Turned
out great tho. None of them were perfect, but when all 5 shelves were in
place, the whole unit (36" x 35" x 19") of heavy cherry was incredibly solid
and strong with no glue at all. Perhaps not being quite perfect was a good
thing - it contributes to the indestructibility of the unit.

I used a metal straight-edge for the slots and a home-made router table for
the shelves. An I am certainly no expert. Very happy with the results.

I say go for it.

-Bob F.

Feather boards and a steady hand

John

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:12:29 GMT, Micheal R. Frichette
wrote:

Okay I am getting ready to make some sliding dovetails, or at least an
attempt at them. ( I am destructing a secretary desk modified for my
use as a humidor, and it calls for sliding dovetails.] Has anyone had
the pleasure of doing a sliding dovetail that is about 24 inches long?
Any suggestions on getting this done properly would be great. I do
have a Bench Dog 150 router table but am not sure that I could keep
the piece (shelf) steady enough to make a good clean route. The shelf
is 3/4 inch stock by about 36 long, by 24 inch wide, glued up of black
walnut. Is there a simple jig that can be made, or is it one
necessary?

Then again maybe I am not ready for this joint but just getting very
prepared.

Thanks for your assistance.

Mikie :-)

Ever notice how many times we spend more time fretting over somthing, and when
we do it, we find it faster and easier than the fretting?

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:12:29 GMT, Micheal R. Frichette
wrote:

Okay I am getting ready to make some sliding dovetails, or at least an
attempt at them. ( I am destructing a secretary desk modified for my
use as a humidor, and it calls for sliding dovetails.] Has anyone had
the pleasure of doing a sliding dovetail that is about 24 inches long?
Any suggestions on getting this done properly would be great. I do
have a Bench Dog 150 router table but am not sure that I could keep
the piece (shelf) steady enough to make a good clean route. The shelf
is 3/4 inch stock by about 36 long, by 24 inch wide, glued up of black
walnut. Is there a simple jig that can be made, or is it one
necessary?

Then again maybe I am not ready for this joint but just getting very
prepared.

Thanks for your assistance.

Mikie :-)

Based on my experience, 24" is pushing the limits of sliding
dovetails. If you get a good fit the frictional resistance can be
quite large. I would have on hand some good pipe clamps as youy may
need all the clamping pressure you can get to pull it together. Also,
as you may know, there is no need to glue the full length. Partially
assemble the unit until you just hav an inch or 2 to go, then apply
glue to only the front of the socket and the back of the tail and then
clamp it home. A good fitting sliding DT can almost go glueless - it
is an incredibly stable/strong joint.

CUt the socket first and then fit the tail. It helps if the socket is
a few thou deeper than the tail so you can be sure the shoulder gets
pulled up tight. If you make the tail too tall then there is a
shoulder gap eventhough the 'fit' is perfect.

On pieces that large I tend to use tapered sliding dovetails which are
a bit more difficult and require a lot more fittting/testing to get
right but they go together easier.

Good luck and try a few test pieces first.

thats the story of my life. the things i think will be hard end up easy.
its the 'simple' little job that ends up in frustration. i think its
because you spend so much time thinking about the hard stuff you work it
out better.

this one should be easy. like john said, feather boards both on the side
and from above, and a steady hand should do the trick just fine.

randy

"DarylRos" wrote in message
...
Ever notice how many times we spend more time fretting over somthing, and
when
we do it, we find it faster and easier than the fretting?

As a sort of side question:

How would one go about doing sliding dovetails in neander world?

Do you saw the tail then clean with a neander router (or dado plane)
and chisel?



--- Gregg

My woodworking projects:


Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html

Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm

Steambending FAQ with photos:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm


"Improvise, adapt, overcome."

Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
Phone: (617) 496-1558

On 23 Mar 2004 07:49:56 -0500, Gregg Germain
wrote:

As a sort of side question:

How would one go about doing sliding dovetails in neander world?

Do you saw the tail then clean with a neander router (or dado plane)
and chisel?



--- Gregg

My woodworking projects:


Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html

Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm

Steambending FAQ with photos:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm


"Improvise, adapt, overcome."

Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
Phone: (617) 496-1558

Use a dovetail plane
http://www.knight-toolworks.com/speciality.htm#Dovetail

Greetings and Salutations....

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:12:29 GMT, Micheal R. Frichette
wrote:

Okay I am getting ready to make some sliding dovetails, or at least an
attempt at them. ( I am destructing a secretary desk modified for my
use as a humidor, and it calls for sliding dovetails.] Has anyone had
the pleasure of doing a sliding dovetail that is about 24 inches long?
Any suggestions on getting this done properly would be great. I do
have a Bench Dog 150 router table but am not sure that I could keep
the piece (shelf) steady enough to make a good clean route. The shelf
is 3/4 inch stock by about 36 long, by 24 inch wide, glued up of black
walnut. Is there a simple jig that can be made, or is it one
necessary?

Well, I hope you can take the router out of the table, as this
is one of those cases where it is easier to move the router than it is
to move the stock.
In the spirit of True Woodworking...I would suggest getting
either the Porter Cable or Leigh (I think) jig with the sliding
dovetail attachment. That will be the quickest way to get to cutting
the joints.
Alternatively, you can make the jigs you need. It will
require a bit of testing and fitting, but, can go ok. use 3/4"
plywood (decent quality stuff) for the jigs.
1) you will need a jig to cut the dovetail on the end of the
board. This consists of an "L" shaped platform with legs about 6"
long. Re-enforce the joint with triangular Glue blocks for
strength and stability. One leg is used to clamp the jig to the
stock. ON the OTHER leg, attach a guide rail such that
when the router base slides along it, the dovetail
bit will cut the OUTSIDE edge of the dovetail on the end
of the stock. (I *really* hope that makes sense...).
To use the jig...clamp it to the stock, with the top edge
flush with the edge to be tailed. Set the depth of the bit to
the appropriate amount. Fire up the router and cut one side of the
joint. Swap the jig to the OTHER side of the stock, and cut the
OTHER side of the dovetail.
Now...we run into the problem of the socket. There is more
than one way to do this, but, I am going to describe the SIMPLIST
way...or at least the way that requires the simplist jig. This
kind of assumes that your dovetail bit is the width
of the tail...although it is quite possible to do it with one
that is a smaller width.
First off...get a good, known straight edge. Clamp it
to the surface that is to receive the socket, so that the dove
tail bit will cut the FAR side of the socket in the correct place.
Make VERY sure that the straight edge is perpendicular to the
side of the piece. Cut the dovetail slot. (the "far" side of
the socket is the edge AWAY from the straight edge).
If your bit is the same width as the dovetail you made
on the end of the board, you are, essentially, done. If it is
smaller, you will have to carefully move the straight edge over
away from the slot you just cut enough to cut the near side
of the socket. Now...if you want to make it easier to get this
puppy together...kick out one end of the straight edge about
a 32d or so further away from the slot when you move it. This
will taper one side of the slot slightly but not so much that
it will become sloppy.
Of course...when gluing up this thing, remember to only
put glue on the last couple of inches of the socket that the
tail slides into, and, on the last couple of inches of tail
to slide into the socket. If you glue the entire slot, the
likelyhood of ending up with a side stuck halfway into the slot
goes up exponentially.

Then again maybe I am not ready for this joint but just getting very
prepared.

Thanks for your assistance.

Mikie :-)
The only way to prepare is to do it. Of course, I would
STRONGLY suggest that you get some poplar and make a few test
joints first...so you are comfortable with the process and understand
what is going on. One never wants to practice on the REAL project.
Remember..the project we see Norm build on the show is the THIRD
one he has built (which is one reason it goes so smoothly).
Dave Mundt

Dave Mundt writes:


Well, I hope you can take the router out of the table, as this
is one of those cases where it is easier to move the router than it is
to move the stock.
In the spirit of True Woodworking...I would suggest getting
either the Porter Cable or Leigh (I think) jig with the sliding
dovetail attachment. That will be the quickest way to get to cutting
the joints.

I know the Porter-Cable has a sliding dovetail template. IIRC, it fits the 24"
jig.

Charlie Self
"Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made." Otto von
Bismarck

SNIP
What the olden-days cabinetmakers did was to cut a full-width dado on
the carcase, and make just the first few inches (where it shows, on
the edge) a sliding dovetail. The dovetail locks the carcase together
from side-to-side, and the tongue-and-dado gives great support for the
shelf or other horizontal surface.

This method has worked more easily for me.

tt
There is no need to glue the entire length as the joint itself, when
properly made is very rigid. Simply assemble the pieces sliding them
together until only an inch or so to go then apply glue to the front
of the socket(the part still not filled by the tail) and the rear of
the tail piece (the part not yet in the socket). Now slide that last
inch or so together and be sure to have some clamps ready if that
piece starts to sieze.

Test Tickle wrote:


: Sliding dovetails that long can be a bear to fit, and a major problem
: comes when you add glue - the moisture swells the joint, and it can
: lock up when you are only partway assembled.

: What the olden-days cabinetmakers did was to cut a full-width dado on
: the carcase, and make just the first few inches (where it shows, on
: the edge) a sliding dovetail. The dovetail locks the carcase together
: from side-to-side, and the tongue-and-dado gives great support for the
: shelf or other horizontal surface.

: This method has worked more easily for me.

I can see where the short dovetail - at the front of the carcase I
presume - would hold the sides onto the shelf.

But what about the back of the carcase? What keeps that from
separating?

I suppose that if the back of the carcase is planked with poplar in a
rabbet then that would do it.



--- Gregg
"Improvise, adapt, overcome."

Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
Phone: (617) 496-1558

you could also put a dovetail in the back of the dado -- one at the front,
one at the back. I'd tend to go with securing the shelf to the back
though.... A lot easier...

--JD

"Gregg Germain" wrote in message
...
Test Tickle wrote:


: Sliding dovetails that long can be a bear to fit, and a major problem
: comes when you add glue - the moisture swells the joint, and it can
: lock up when you are only partway assembled.

: What the olden-days cabinetmakers did was to cut a full-width dado on
: the carcase, and make just the first few inches (where it shows, on
: the edge) a sliding dovetail. The dovetail locks the carcase together
: from side-to-side, and the tongue-and-dado gives great support for the
: shelf or other horizontal surface.

: This method has worked more easily for me.

I can see where the short dovetail - at the front of the carcase I
presume - would hold the sides onto the shelf.

But what about the back of the carcase? What keeps that from
separating?

I suppose that if the back of the carcase is planked with poplar in a
rabbet then that would do it.



--- Gregg
"Improvise, adapt, overcome."

Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
Phone: (617) 496-1558

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:12:29 GMT, Micheal R. Frichette
wrote:

Okay I am getting ready to make some sliding dovetails, or at least an
attempt at them. ( I am destructing a secretary desk modified for my
use as a humidor, and it calls for sliding dovetails.] Has anyone had
the pleasure of doing a sliding dovetail that is about 24 inches long?
Any suggestions on getting this done properly would be great. I do
have a Bench Dog 150 router table but am not sure that I could keep
the piece (shelf) steady enough to make a good clean route. The shelf
is 3/4 inch stock by about 36 long, by 24 inch wide, glued up of black
walnut. Is there a simple jig that can be made, or is it one
necessary?

Then again maybe I am not ready for this joint but just getting very
prepared.

Thanks for your assistance.

Mikie :-)


Hey fellow WW thanks for the advice and encouragement. I have cut the
slots and have done a couple of test cuts for the dovetails to see how
they fit. My first set up was great and then I thought I could tweak
it just a littlebit, ugh!! ended up back at the first set up.
Hopefully I can get the shelves cut to size and the slides router on.

Again thanks.

Mikie :-)