There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

Curious Man

I thunk us conserbitives were da beer drinking, flag wavi'n, blindly
patriotic neanderthals and the liburuls were da smart edjumakated ones
who knows whats really best fur us.

On Jun 4, 3:12*pm, Curious Man wrote:
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

Curious Man

"Curious Man" wrote in message
...
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

Curious Man

If you want some interesting thoughts, you might want to ask conservatives
what they think a conservative is, and liberals what a liberal is. That
should be much more interesting than asking either group to consider what
the opposing ideology is.

To the degree that they're in opposition, their answers probably will have
nothing to do with the historical meanings of either idea, but it would be a
refreshing change from listening to them demonize each other. They might
even be surprised to learn that neither idea has much to do with the other,
or to opposing each other, but that's a lot to ask.

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 22:12:43 +0000 (UTC), Curious Man
wrote:

There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

Show us your data. IOW, you're talking out your a$$.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

Perhaps you should reconsider yours.

krw wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 22:12:43 +0000 (UTC), Curious Man
wrote:

There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

Show us your data. IOW, you're talking out your a$$.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

Perhaps you should reconsider yours.

i think what he is saying is that your stereotypes should be the
same as his...

"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
krw wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 22:12:43 +0000 (UTC), Curious Man
wrote:

There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

Show us your data. IOW, you're talking out your a$$.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

Perhaps you should reconsider yours.

i think what he is saying is that your stereotypes should be the
same as his...

More likely what he would have said, had he not been so polite, is that the
people who identify themselves at either end of the spectrum are out of
their minds. And, of course, he would be correct. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 22:12:43 +0000 (UTC), Curious Man
wrote:

There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

Curious Man


There are many degrees of conservatism and liberalism. It is easy to
stereotype incorrectly, though. Personally, I'm a mix of the two.

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
|
| "cavelamb" wrote in message
| m...
| krw wrote:
| On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 22:12:43 +0000 (UTC), Curious Man
| wrote:
|
| There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
| people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
| harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
| reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
| work ethic.
|
| And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
| supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
| people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
| people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
| attainment.
|
| Show us your data. IOW, you're talking out your a$$.
|
| If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
| stereotypes?
|
| Perhaps you should reconsider yours.
|
| i think what he is saying is that your stereotypes should be the
| same as his...
|
| More likely what he would have said, had he not been so polite, is that
the
| people who identify themselves at either end of the spectrum are out of
| their minds. And, of course, he would be correct. d8-)
|
| --
| Ed Huntress
|
Correct. There are many examples of stupidity and brilliance from both
sides.
However, grouped together there are possibly more stupidity than brilliance
committed throughout history of mankind.

On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:32:31 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

krw wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 22:12:43 +0000 (UTC), Curious Man
wrote:

There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

Show us your data. IOW, you're talking out your a$$.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

Perhaps you should reconsider yours.

i think what he is saying is that your stereotypes should be the
same as his...

Ah, yes. That is the leftist's way.

Ed Huntress wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
krw wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 22:12:43 +0000 (UTC), Curious Man
wrote:

There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.
Show us your data. IOW, you're talking out your a$$.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?
Perhaps you should reconsider yours.
i think what he is saying is that your stereotypes should be the
same as his...

More likely what he would have said, had he not been so polite, is that the
people who identify themselves at either end of the spectrum are out of
their minds. And, of course, he would be correct. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress



I'm glad you are back at it, Ed.
It's always refreshing to get your read on this stuff.

There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

Show us your data. IOW, you're talking out your a$$.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

Perhaps you should reconsider yours.

i think what he is saying is that your stereotypes should be the
same as his...

Ah, yes. That is the leftist's way.

At least that is what you think the leftist's way is. What people are
forgetting is that there are stereotypes, which do have some truth to them,
and then there is reality. There are concrete things that actually make
someone a liberal or a conservative. They each have their own ways and
beliefs. The problem is when one side makes claims about the other side
which are not true, which is usually the case. In this group, which is
filled with right wingers and republicans denigration of "liberals" are
posted constantly. That's because the "wingers" detest anyone who has views
that are different from theirs (a conservative trait). Proof of this is the
unending stream of criticism and invectives directed at liberals by them.

Take one trait that is common among liberals; tolerance. This same trait is
not shared or highly regarded by conservatives. A trait they like a lot more
is authority or hierarchy. Each group has it's own group of attributes and
they are not shared much by the other group. Both groups have a low opinion
of the other group. But if you want to know the facts about one group or the
other you don't ask the other side because most of what they think is wrong.
Anyone can find the truth about liberals or conservatives if they want but
for most people it's a lot easier to simply call the other group names and
say nasty things about them. On this group, most of the people doing that
are conservatives. That's is not an opinion. It's a fact.

Hawke

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
:
: "cavelamb" wrote in message
: m...
: krw wrote:
: On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 22:12:43 +0000 (UTC), Curious Man
: wrote:
:
: There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts
of
: people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
: harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
: reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance
and
: work ethic.
:
: And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
: supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off,
accomplished
: people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and
interesting
: people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
: attainment.
:
: Show us your data. IOW, you're talking out your a$$.
:
: If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
: stereotypes?
:
: Perhaps you should reconsider yours.
:
: i think what he is saying is that your stereotypes should be the
: same as his...
:
: More likely what he would have said, had he not been so polite, is
that the
: people who identify themselves at either end of the spectrum are out
of
: their minds. And, of course, he would be correct. d8-)

I thought he was just being a conservative.

Dave in Houston

On Jun 4, 5:12*pm, Curious Man wrote:
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

Curious Man

FYI....

TMT

Conservatives Are More Easily Disgusted
Robert Roy Britt

LiveScience.com robert Roy Britt

People who squirm at the sight of bugs or are grossed out by blood and
guts are more likely to be politically conservative, new studies find.

In particular, the squeamish are more apt to have conservative
attitudes about gays and lesbians.

Lots of other research has tied politics to biology and behavior. Some
quick background:

* A study last year found that when people feel physically clean,
they are less judgmental.
* Another study found that political conservatives tend to be
tidy, with organized offices, but liberals favor colorful, more
stylish but cluttered spaces.
* Political views are driven by religion, culture and even
biology, other research has shown.
* A large, global study in 2007 concluded that political
preference is 50 percent genetic.

The new studies

In one of the new studies, Cornell University psychology professor
David Pizarro and colleagues surveyed 181 U.S. adults from politically
mixed swing states. They used a Disgust Sensitivity Scale (DSS), which
offers various scenarios to assess disgust sensitivity, as well as a
political ideology scale. They found a correlation between being more
easily disgusted and political conservatism.

Then they surveyed 91 Cornell undergraduates with the DSS, as well as
with questions about their positions on issues including gay marriage,
abortion, gun control, labor unions, tax cuts and affirmative action.
Participants who rated higher in disgust sensitivity were more likely
to oppose gay marriage and abortion, issues that are related to
notions of morality or purity.

The results are detailed in the journal Cognition & Emotion.

In a separate study in the current issue of the journal Emotion,
Pizarro and colleagues found a link between higher disgust sensitivity
and disapproval of gays and lesbians. In this research, they used
implicit measures, which assess attitudes people may be unwilling to
report explicitly or that they may not even know they possess. The
studies were funded by the university.

Morals and disgust

Morals and disgust are intertwined. Research earlier this year found
that people react similarly to disgusting photographs by curling the
upper lip and wrinkling the nose. When judging behavior, our disgust
can actually make us feel physically sick.

Pizarro explains that disgust is evolution's way of protecting us from
disease. Unfortunately, in his view, disgust is now used to make moral
judgments.

Liberals and conservatives disagree about whether disgust has a valid
place in making moral judgments, Pizarro argues. Some conservatives
think there is inherent wisdom in repugnance, that feeling disgusted
about something - gay sex between consenting adults, for example - is
cause enough to judge it wrong or immoral, even lacking a concrete
reason, Pizarro explains. Liberals tend to disagree, and are more
likely to base judgments on whether an action or a thing causes actual
harm, he said.

Studying the link between disgust and moral judgment could help
explain the strong differences in people's moral opinions, Pizarro
figures. And it could offer strategies for persuading some to change
their views.

"People have pointed out for a long time that a lot of our moral
values seem driven by emotion, and in particular, disgust appears to
be one of those emotions that seems to be recruited for moral
judgments," Pizarro said.

An interesting related aside to chew on: Research published in 2007 in
the Journal of Applied Psychology found that people who think of
themselves as having high moral standards often become the worst
cheats because they pursue what they believe to be a moral end at all
cost.

On Jun 4, 11:13*pm, "Hawke" wrote:
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

Show us your data. *IOW, you're talking out your a$$.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

Perhaps you should reconsider yours.

i think what he is saying is that your stereotypes should be the
same as his...

Ah, yes. *That is the leftist's way.

At least that is what you think the leftist's way is. What people are
forgetting is that there are stereotypes, which do have some truth to them,
and then there is reality. There are concrete things that actually make
someone a liberal or a conservative. They each have their own ways and
beliefs. The problem is when one side makes claims about the other side
which are not true, which is usually the case. In this group, which is
filled with right wingers and republicans denigration of "liberals" are
posted constantly. That's because the "wingers" detest anyone who has views
that are different from theirs (a conservative trait). Proof of this is the
unending stream of criticism and invectives directed at liberals by them.

Take one trait that is common among liberals; tolerance. This same trait is
not shared or highly regarded by conservatives. A trait they like a lot more
is authority or hierarchy. Each group has it's own group of attributes and
they are not shared much by the other group. Both groups have a low opinion
of the other group. But if you want to know the facts about one group or the
other you don't ask the other side because most of what they think is wrong.
Anyone can find the truth about liberals or conservatives if they want but
for most people it's a lot easier to simply call the other group names and
say nasty things about them. On this group, most of the people doing that
are conservatives. That's is not an opinion. It's a fact.

Hawke

Well said.

TMT

On Jun 4, 5:12*pm, Curious Man wrote:
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

Curious Man

Yes...that is the case.

TMT

Curious Man wrote:
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

I've always thought that "conservative" meant "not in favor of changing
some established norm"; and that "liberal" indicated a willingness to
try new approaches...

I had a seventh grade teacher who gave my class some interesting
guidance: "I don't want you to have closed minds, nor do I want you to
have open minds," he said, "I want you to have /openable/ minds - to
hold to what you know to be true, and to be prepared to replace the old
ideas when you gave good reason to /decide/ that something is more true
or works better."

Does that make one a conservative liberal or a liberal conservative?

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Morris Dovey wrote:
Curious Man wrote:
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

I've always thought that "conservative" meant "not in favor of changing
some established norm"; and that "liberal" indicated a willingness to
try new approaches...

I had a seventh grade teacher who gave my class some interesting
guidance: "I don't want you to have closed minds, nor do I want you to
have open minds," he said, "I want you to have /openable/ minds - to
hold to what you know to be true, and to be prepared to replace the old
ideas when you gave good reason to /decide/ that something is more true
or works better."

Does that make one a conservative liberal or a liberal conservative?

a difference in the meaning of "equality" - equal opportunity vs equal
outcome.

"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
...
Morris Dovey wrote:
Curious Man wrote:
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

I've always thought that "conservative" meant "not in favor of changing
some established norm"; and that "liberal" indicated a willingness to
try new approaches...

I had a seventh grade teacher who gave my class some interesting
guidance: "I don't want you to have closed minds, nor do I want you to
have open minds," he said, "I want you to have /openable/ minds - to
hold to what you know to be true, and to be prepared to replace the old
ideas when you gave good reason to /decide/ that something is more true
or works better."

Does that make one a conservative liberal or a liberal conservative?

a difference in the meaning of "equality" - equal opportunity vs equal
outcome.

As should be clear from the last half-century of debates about human rights,
that's a false dichotomy. It's another 18th-century Enlightenment conceit
that sounds good in theory, and that helps maintain the logic of (classical)
liberal thought, but it falls apart in practice.

I liked the analogy made by someone back when affirmative action was first
being discussed, around 1970 or so. He said that breaking down legal
barriers to employment opportunity was like telling someone who had been
chained up for 20 years that, now that his chains were removed, he is
expected to compete in a 100-yard dash on an equal basis. "Now, go run, and
no more complaints from you," it says.

--
Ed Huntress

In article
Morris Dovey writes:

Does that make one a conservative liberal or a liberal conservative?


I've long prefered the phrase from a comic strip (maybe B.C.) that
was reprinted in one of my textbooks:
a radical middle-of-the-roader


--
Drew Lawson | Broke my mind
| Had no spare
|

"Drew Lawson" wrote in message
...
In article
Morris Dovey writes:

Does that make one a conservative liberal or a liberal conservative?


I've long prefered the phrase from a comic strip (maybe B.C.) that
was reprinted in one of my textbooks:
a radical middle-of-the-roader

"Radical centrist" and the "radical middle" are developing political ideas
that show up in all sorts of contexts. It's part of the "Third Way" group of
political philosophies but it largely rejects the idea of the center as a
compromise position. It works more as a synthesis than a compromise, to the
degree that it does work.

Some people would consider Clinton to be a Third Way politician who
triangulates conflicts to arrive at a balance that mollifies conflict. By
that light Obama is more of a radical centrist, a pragmatist who is focused
more on what should work rather than what will satisfy conflicts, which is
why he ****es off the left almost as often as he ****es off the right. He's
trying to glue it all together by means of rhetorical skill and sharp
political maneuvering.

--
Ed Huntress

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jun 4, 11:13 pm, "Hawke" wrote:
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.
And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.
Show us your data. IOW, you're talking out your a$$.
If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?
Perhaps you should reconsider yours.
i think what he is saying is that your stereotypes should be the
same as his...
Ah, yes. That is the leftist's way.
At least that is what you think the leftist's way is. What people are
forgetting is that there are stereotypes, which do have some truth to them,
and then there is reality. There are concrete things that actually make
someone a liberal or a conservative. They each have their own ways and
beliefs. The problem is when one side makes claims about the other side
which are not true, which is usually the case. In this group, which is
filled with right wingers and republicans denigration of "liberals" are
posted constantly. That's because the "wingers" detest anyone who has views
that are different from theirs (a conservative trait). Proof of this is the
unending stream of criticism and invectives directed at liberals by them.

Take one trait that is common among liberals; tolerance. This same trait is
not shared or highly regarded by conservatives. A trait they like a lot more
is authority or hierarchy. Each group has it's own group of attributes and
they are not shared much by the other group. Both groups have a low opinion
of the other group. But if you want to know the facts about one group or the
other you don't ask the other side because most of what they think is wrong.
Anyone can find the truth about liberals or conservatives if they want but
for most people it's a lot easier to simply call the other group names and
say nasty things about them. On this group, most of the people doing that
are conservatives. That's is not an opinion. It's a fact.

Hawke

Well said.

I beg to differ; I thought what he said was a load of ****.

--
Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Morris Dovey wrote:
Curious Man wrote:
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

I've always thought that "conservative" meant "not in favor of changing
some established norm"; and that "liberal" indicated a willingness to
try new approaches...

I had a seventh grade teacher who gave my class some interesting
guidance: "I don't want you to have closed minds, nor do I want you to
have open minds," he said, "I want you to have /openable/ minds - to
hold to what you know to be true, and to be prepared to replace the old
ideas when you gave good reason to /decide/ that something is more true
or works better."

Does that make one a conservative liberal or a liberal conservative?

Whatever it is, I'm one of 'em. :-)

--
Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On Jun 5, 2:39*pm, Steve Turner wrote:
Morris Dovey wrote:
Curious Man wrote:
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

I've always thought that "conservative" meant "not in favor of changing
some established norm"; and that "liberal" indicated a willingness to
try new approaches...

I had a seventh grade teacher who gave my class some interesting
guidance: "I don't want you to have closed minds, nor do I want you to
have open minds," he said, "I want you to have /openable/ minds - to
hold to what you know to be true, and to be prepared to replace the old
ideas when you gave good reason to /decide/ that something is more true
or works better."

Does that make one a conservative liberal or a liberal conservative?

Whatever it is, I'm one of 'em. *:-)

--
Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Yup. Me too. From a business perspective I'm a conservative. Small
government, low taxes, yadda, yadda. I'm anti abortion, but pro-
choice. I defend the right to own weapons. I think there should be a
central health-care system open to all, but more open to those who can
afford it, as long as it doesn't displace somebody from a list who
needs care. Cancer treatment is one thing, cancer treatment at a
country-club should be an option if you have the money.
I saw what you Americans can do when my sister needed the best of
care, and my hat is off to you for that kind of quality.
I am also aware of the bankruptcies caused by basic old-age care in
your fine country.
So I guess I'm a pinko-commie-librul when it comes to taking care of
those old people who built the countries we get to enjoy.
I was originally taken in by Bush's rhetoric on 'compassionate
conservatives' just to find out he was lying warmongering megalomaniac
who had an inferiority complex to the point that all he wanted to do
was please his daddy...how sick was that?
Bush did more to set back the concept conservatism than anybody I can
think of.

Put me in the middle, but don't call me a moderate-anything, because
that ****es me off. I'm quite vehement about those things I think are
right. I try to advance the technology in work-surface products and
now teach the skills at a local college to those who also think this
can be a real business. Now... here comes the funny part. The college
wanted to pay me. I passed. Not because I was feeling particularly
benevolent, but I would have to spend more money for somebody to fill
out the paperwork for the current government than I stood to make from
the whole project. WHICH makes me a non-liberal.

Ha!!

In article
"Hawke" writes:

Take one trait that is common among liberals; tolerance. This same trait is
not shared or highly regarded by conservatives. A trait they like a lot more

I must call bull**** on that one.
I find tolerance to be about equally practiced by liberals and
conservatives, though you may find it preached more frequently by
(political) liberals.

It is a trait I rarely see displayed by pundits of either side.

--
|Drew Lawson | Of all the things I've lost |
| | I miss my mind the most |

On Jun 5, 2:18*pm, Robatoy wrote:
On Jun 5, 2:39*pm, Steve Turner wrote:



Morris Dovey wrote:
Curious Man wrote:
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

I've always thought that "conservative" meant "not in favor of changing
some established norm"; and that "liberal" indicated a willingness to
try new approaches...

I had a seventh grade teacher who gave my class some interesting
guidance: "I don't want you to have closed minds, nor do I want you to
have open minds," he said, "I want you to have /openable/ minds - to
hold to what you know to be true, and to be prepared to replace the old
ideas when you gave good reason to /decide/ that something is more true
or works better."

Does that make one a conservative liberal or a liberal conservative?

Whatever it is, I'm one of 'em. *:-)

--
Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Yup. Me too. From a business perspective I'm a conservative. Small
government, low taxes, yadda, yadda. I'm anti abortion, but pro-
choice. I defend the right to own weapons. I think there should be a
central health-care system open to all, but more open to those who can
afford it, as long as it doesn't displace somebody from a list who
needs care. Cancer treatment is one thing, cancer treatment at a
country-club should be an option if you have the money.
I saw what you Americans can do when my sister needed the best of
care, and my hat is off to you for that kind of quality.
I am also aware of the bankruptcies caused by basic old-age care in
your fine country.
So I guess I'm a pinko-commie-librul when it comes to taking care of
those old people who built the countries we get to enjoy.
I was originally taken in by Bush's rhetoric on 'compassionate
conservatives' just to find out he was lying warmongering megalomaniac
who had an inferiority complex to the point that all he wanted to do
was please his daddy...how sick was that?
Bush did more to set back the concept conservatism than anybody I can
think of.

Put me in the middle, but don't call me a moderate-anything, because
that ****es me off. I'm quite vehement about those things I think are
right. I try to advance the technology in work-surface products and
now teach the skills at a local college to those who also think this
can be a real business. Now... here comes the funny part. The college
wanted to pay me. I passed. Not because I was feeling particularly
benevolent, but I would have to spend more money for somebody to fill
out the paperwork for the current government than I stood to make from
the whole project. WHICH makes me a non-liberal.

Ha!!

Good post.

FYI...it was recently noted that 60% of the personal bankruptcies are
due to medical costs.

TMT

Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
"Hawke" writes:
Take one trait that is common among liberals; tolerance. This same trait is
not shared or highly regarded by conservatives. A trait they like a lot more

I must call bull**** on that one.
I find tolerance to be about equally practiced by liberals and
conservatives, though you may find it preached more frequently by
(political) liberals.

It is a trait I rarely see displayed by pundits of either side.

That's one of the reasons I said Hawke's post was a load of ****. Most
of the most vehemently intolerant people I know are liberals. Of
course, that depends on what your definition of "intolerant" is... If
it's aimed in the right direction, it's somehow "justified".

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Curious Man wrote:
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

Curious Man

Liberals tend to provide for the common welfare through the treasury;
Conservative tend to promote the general welfare through the economy.

Your observations have some merit. But the people who post here, who
genuinely want to help others, yet express "liberal" tendencies, are merely
proto-conservatives. As they age and accumulate wisdom, they'll change.

On Jun 5, 6:40*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Curious Man wrote:
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

Curious Man

Liberals tend to provide for the common welfare through the treasury;
Conservative tend to promote the general welfare through the economy.

Your observations have some merit. But the people who post here, who
genuinely want to help others, yet express "liberal" tendencies, are merely
proto-conservatives. As they age and accumulate wisdom, they'll change.

Into what?

On Jun 5, 4:04*pm, Steve Turner wrote:
Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
* *"Hawke" writes:
Take one trait that is common among liberals; tolerance. This same trait is
not shared or highly regarded by conservatives. A trait they like a lot more

I must call bull**** on that one.
I find tolerance to be about equally practiced by liberals and
conservatives, though you may find it preached more frequently by
(political) liberals.

It is a trait I rarely see displayed by pundits of either side.

That's one of the reasons I said Hawke's post was a load of ****. *Most
of the most vehemently intolerant people I know are liberals. *Of
course, that depends on what your definition of "intolerant" is... *If
it's aimed in the right direction, it's somehow "justified".

--
See Nad. *See Nad go. *Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

I think there are "intolerant" people of both political persuasions.

In my experience the conservatives are the ones who win the SOB Award.

But the OP noted...and I agree...that many of the postings we see here
are from conservatives ranting and stamping their feet about the
latest "injustice".

Read the responses to this discussion...and note that the
conservatives are the ones bitching.

TMT

On Jun 5, 5:40*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Curious Man wrote:
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

Curious Man

Liberals tend to provide for the common welfare through the treasury;
Conservative tend to promote the general welfare through the economy.

Your observations have some merit. But the people who post here, who
genuinely want to help others, yet express "liberal" tendencies, are merely
proto-conservatives. As they age and accumulate wisdom, they'll change.

LOL...I used to be a conservative but as I get older I find myself
becoming much more liberal.

That liberalism comes from acquiring wisdom.

And if you haven't noticed, the Country just slapped the conservative
movement into the next decade after enjoying its "benefits" under
Bush.

As those voters who voted for Obama age, they will be liberal leaning
for decades.

TMT

On Jun 5, 11:40*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message

...





Morris Dovey wrote:
Curious Man wrote:
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?

I've always thought that "conservative" meant "not in favor of changing
some established norm"; and that "liberal" indicated a willingness to
try new approaches...

I had a seventh grade teacher who gave my class some interesting
guidance: "I don't want you to have closed minds, nor do I want you to
have open minds," he said, "I want you to have /openable/ minds - to
hold to what you know to be true, and to be prepared to replace the old
ideas when you gave good reason to /decide/ that something is more true
or works better."

Does that make one a conservative liberal or a liberal conservative?

a difference in the meaning of "equality" - equal opportunity vs equal
outcome.

As should be clear from the last half-century of debates about human rights,
that's a false dichotomy. It's another 18th-century Enlightenment conceit
that sounds good in theory, and that helps maintain the logic of (classical)
liberal thought, but it falls apart in practice.

I liked the analogy made by someone back when affirmative action was first
being discussed, around 1970 or so. He said that breaking down legal
barriers to employment opportunity was like telling someone who had been
chained up for 20 years that, now that his chains were removed, he is
expected to compete in a 100-yard dash on an equal basis. "Now, go run, and
no more complaints from you," it says.

--
Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you believe in "reverse racism", then you believe in racism.

wrote in message

If you believe in "reverse racism", then you believe in racism.

Both exist

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
I liked the analogy made by someone back when affirmative action was first
being discussed, around 1970 or so. He said that breaking down legal
barriers to employment opportunity was like telling someone who had been
chained up for 20 years that, now that his chains were removed, he is
expected to compete in a 100-yard dash on an equal basis. "Now, go run,
and no more complaints from you," it says.

IMO, the proper approach it to allow that person to compete and, if he
fails, to help him so that he can do better in the future. You don't tell
the other competitors to slow down, nor do you ignore the fact that they did
the best of their ability. .

Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
Morris Dovey writes:

Does that make one a conservative liberal or a liberal conservative?



I've long prefered the phrase from a comic strip (maybe B.C.) that
was reprinted in one of my textbooks:
a radical middle-of-the-roader

FWIW, Mack Reynolds wrote a story in 1967 entitled "Radical Center". I
can't remember anything about it other than the title, but the title was
memorable enough.

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jun 5, 4:04 pm, Steve Turner wrote:
Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
"Hawke" writes:
Take one trait that is common among liberals; tolerance. This same trait is
not shared or highly regarded by conservatives. A trait they like a lot more
I must call bull**** on that one.
I find tolerance to be about equally practiced by liberals and
conservatives, though you may find it preached more frequently by
(political) liberals.
It is a trait I rarely see displayed by pundits of either side.
That's one of the reasons I said Hawke's post was a load of ****. Most
of the most vehemently intolerant people I know are liberals. Of
course, that depends on what your definition of "intolerant" is... If
it's aimed in the right direction, it's somehow "justified".

I think there are "intolerant" people of both political persuasions.

I wouldn't disagree with that.

In my experience the conservatives are the ones who win the SOB Award.

You sound intolerant of conservatives.

But the OP noted...and I agree...that many of the postings we see here
are from conservatives ranting and stamping their feet about the
latest "injustice".

I normally steer completely clear of political discussions, and I try to
stay as neutral and open as possible, but every once in a while a
bull**** statement like that just gets my goat. I've been in and out of
here (rec.woodworking, that is) many times over the last eight to ten
years, but for the past six months or so it's been regular enough to
form a fairly solid opinion of the current overall "climate". My
10-second summary from a 50-foot view? Both sides get a big charge out
of stirring up ****, but as soon as a debate starts up it's the liberals
who are so quick to shout insults and foam at the mouth, and that just
rubs me wrong (in a totally non-partisan way). I don't know *what*
forum you're referring to when you say it's the conservatives who are
"ranting and stamping their feet", but it's not the same one I'm
reading. Trust me, I'm just about the most impartial observer one could
hope to find, but if I was going to hand out a "calm and collected"
award it would go the conservatives, hands down.

Read the responses to this discussion...

I have, several times.

and note that the conservatives are the ones bitching.

I drew no such conclusion.

--
If it ain't perfect, improve it...
But don't break it while you're fixin' it!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jun 5, 5:40 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Curious Man wrote:
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.
And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.
If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?
Curious Man
Liberals tend to provide for the common welfare through the treasury;
Conservative tend to promote the general welfare through the economy.

Your observations have some merit. But the people who post here, who
genuinely want to help others, yet express "liberal" tendencies, are merely
proto-conservatives. As they age and accumulate wisdom, they'll change.

LOL...I used to be a conservative but as I get older I find myself
becoming much more liberal.

That liberalism comes from acquiring wisdom.

And if you haven't noticed, the Country just slapped the conservative
movement into the next decade after enjoying its "benefits" under
Bush.

As those voters who voted for Obama age, they will be liberal leaning
for decades.

TMT

As my dear old departed mum told me almost 50 years ago - "When you're
young, you're idealistic and liberal, then you got to work and start
paying taxes and become a conservative, then you get old and start
looking for help because you didn't plan ahead and you become liberal
again".

On Jun 5, 10:35*pm, Steve Turner wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jun 5, 4:04 pm, Steve Turner wrote:
Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
* *"Hawke" writes:
Take one trait that is common among liberals; tolerance. This same trait is
not shared or highly regarded by conservatives. A trait they like a lot more
I must call bull**** on that one.
I find tolerance to be about equally practiced by liberals and
conservatives, though you may find it preached more frequently by
(political) liberals.
It is a trait I rarely see displayed by pundits of either side.
That's one of the reasons I said Hawke's post was a load of ****. *Most
of the most vehemently intolerant people I know are liberals. *Of
course, that depends on what your definition of "intolerant" is... *If
it's aimed in the right direction, it's somehow "justified".

I think there are "intolerant" people of both political persuasions.

I wouldn't disagree with that.

In my experience the conservatives are the ones who win the SOB Award.

You sound intolerant of conservatives.

But the OP noted...and I agree...that many of the postings we see here
are from conservatives ranting and stamping their feet about the
latest "injustice".

I normally steer completely clear of political discussions, and I try to
stay as neutral and open as possible, but every once in a while a
bull**** statement like that just gets my goat. *I've been in and out of
here (rec.woodworking, that is) many times over the last eight to ten
years, but for the past six months or so it's been regular enough to
form a fairly solid opinion of the current overall "climate". *My
10-second summary from a 50-foot view? *Both sides get a big charge out
of stirring up ****, but as soon as a debate starts up it's the liberals
who are so quick to shout insults and foam at the mouth, and that just
rubs me wrong (in a totally non-partisan way). *I don't know *what*
forum you're referring to when you say it's the conservatives who are
"ranting and stamping their feet", but it's not the same one I'm
reading. *Trust me, I'm just about the most impartial observer one could
hope to find, but if I was going to hand out a "calm and collected"
award it would go the conservatives, hands down.

Read the responses to this discussion...

I have, several times.

and note that the conservatives are the ones bitching.

I drew no such conclusion.

--
If it ain't perfect, improve it...
But don't break it while you're fixin' it!
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

You need to get out more...rec.woodworking is one of the more
civilized groups.

Cruise some of the other groups and you will see conservatives doing
as I said.

Try googling "Gunner" and be prepared for a year's worth of ranting.

There are many more.

TMT

On Jun 5, 11:25*pm, Doug Winterburn wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jun 5, 5:40 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Curious Man wrote:
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.
And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.
If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?
Curious Man
Liberals tend to provide for the common welfare through the treasury;
Conservative tend to promote the general welfare through the economy.

Your observations have some merit. But the people who post here, who
genuinely want to help others, yet express "liberal" tendencies, are merely
proto-conservatives. As they age and accumulate wisdom, they'll change..

LOL...I used to be a conservative but as I get older I find myself
becoming much more liberal.

That liberalism comes from acquiring wisdom.

And if you haven't noticed, the Country just slapped the conservative
movement into the next decade after enjoying its "benefits" under
Bush.

As those voters who voted for Obama age, they will be liberal leaning
for decades.

TMT

As my dear old departed mum told me almost 50 years ago - "When you're
young, you're idealistic and liberal, then you got to work and start
paying taxes and become a conservative, then you get old and start
looking for help because you didn't plan ahead and you become liberal
again".

LOL...tell me...what will the millions of Americans do in the next few
years for retirement when their 401Ks are worth nothing, their houses
are worth much, much less and with millions living off what savings
they might have?

Or the damning fact that 60% of bankruptcies are medical related...and
you incur most of your medical costs after retirement.

And you do realize that this deep, deep recession has a long way to go
yet. Best estimates that the economy MAY bottom out late next year. So
how deep of pockets do you have..especially if government payments are
cut?

The truth in life is that you can do everything right and still arrive
at retirement penniless.

TMT

On Jun 5, 7:28*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
wrote in message
If you believe in "reverse racism", then you believe in racism.

Both exist

I should have been more clear. Neither should. They are both based
on the same principle -- racial collectivism -- treating groups based
upon race or ethnicity. People who believe that affirmative action is
a redress for the racism of the past only justify it in principle.
But pragmatists don't believe in principles, only results -- the ends
justify the means. In practice, they end up creating more racism by
practicing a version of their own. Pragmatist mix good and bad
principles indifferently. The bad ones always end up being more
expedient and take over the show.

Pragmatism vs. ideology:
A guy carries a briefcase into a bar, walks up to the prettiest girl,
opens the briefcase to reveal one million dollars, and asks the girl
if she will sleep with him for the million dollars. She thnks,
"Hmmm...For a million dollars? O.k.!". He then closes the briefcase
and pulls out a one dollar bill and says, "Will you sleep with me for
one dollar?" The girl immediately slaps him in the face and asks,
"What kind of girl do you think I am?" and he says, "We've figured out
what you are, now we're just negotiating the price!"

Hawke wrote:
There seems to be a stereotype that "liberals" are the lazy sorts of
people who interrupt TV viewing only to go to soup lines, or smoke
harmful substances, whereas "conservatives" are hard working, self
reliant people who are very well off due to their own perseverance and
work ethic.

And yet, the few self proclaimed or suspected liberals and Obama
supporters of this newsgroup, seem to be very well off, accomplished
people, whereas many conservatives, while intelligent and interesting
people on many levels, are not exactly above that kind of level of
attainment.
Show us your data. IOW, you're talking out your a$$.

If that is the case, is that perhaps the time to reconsider our
stereotypes?
Perhaps you should reconsider yours.
i think what he is saying is that your stereotypes should be the
same as his...
Ah, yes. That is the leftist's way.

At least that is what you think the leftist's way is. What people are
forgetting is that there are stereotypes, which do have some truth to them,
and then there is reality. There are concrete things that actually make
someone a liberal or a conservative. They each have their own ways and
beliefs. The problem is when one side makes claims about the other side
which are not true, which is usually the case. In this group, which is
filled with right wingers and republicans denigration of "liberals" are
posted constantly. That's because the "wingers" detest anyone who has views
that are different from theirs (a conservative trait). Proof of this is the
unending stream of criticism and invectives directed at liberals by them.

Take one trait that is common among liberals; tolerance. This same trait is
not shared or highly regarded by conservatives. A trait they like a lot more
is authority or hierarchy. Each group has it's own group of attributes and
they are not shared much by the other group. Both groups have a low opinion
of the other group. But if you want to know the facts about one group or the
other you don't ask the other side because most of what they think is wrong.
Anyone can find the truth about liberals or conservatives if they want but
for most people it's a lot easier to simply call the other group names and
say nasty things about them. On this group, most of the people doing that
are conservatives. That's is not an opinion. It's a fact.

Hawke


speaking of stereotypes..... /mark