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On Feb 20, 9:09*pm, "Rob H." wrote:
*What kind of baler years ago made 500 lb. bales for the use of the ( farm
tools #8 ) hay harpoon? Old square bales were under a 100 lbs. and big
round balers did not come out until about the 80s.
Thanks Ralph


That information was copied from my original answer for the hay harpoon that
was posted back in November of 2006, I don't remember where I found it. *The
link that I had in the answer was to an auction web site page which is no
longer there.

However I did find the link below, on page 15 it mentions an 1850 hay press
that is now in working order and produces bales up to 500 pounds:

http://www.cfcincorporated.com/CFCHistory.pdf

If I ever find where I got my original information I'll let you know.

Rob


Rob,
The hay harpoon was not for large bales. There were several types used
for unloading loose hay from a wagon, hoisting it into the hay mow.
Personally, I've used two types of them. First was a two pronged
harpoon. You used whatever measurew you could to punch it down into
the hay(jab, pull, jab again, etc.) until it was in as far as it would
physically go, then(at least on ours) pull up on a handle whic turened
the bottom 3 to 4" of the prongs 90 deg. to the inside, and the handle
latched there. The top of the harpoon had a rope sheave on it. The end
of the 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" rope was secured to the "trolley", came down
through the sheave on the harpoon, back up to the trolley, over a
sheave there, across the ridge of the barn roof to a pulley at the end
of the barn, then by whatever means necessary to get it outside the
barn where a team of horses or a tractor could pull on it. There was
an angle iron track the full length of the barn ridge(inside).
Directly above where the wagon would sit was what was called a "frog"
attached to the rail. The frog looked like a double ended arrowhead
with a gap between the points. The "trolley" would be pulled back with
the trip rope and would latch in the frog and release the harpoon so
you could pull it down to the wagon. After the harpoon was set, the
horses/tractor would pull on the main rope, lifting about 1/4 of the
load of hay off the wagon. When it was pulled all the way up to the
frog, the harpoon sheave would do 2 things, latch into the trolley AND
release the trolley from the frog, so the trolly and hay woiuld follow
the track toward the end of the barn. When the hay was where you
wanted it in the haymow, you stop letting the trip rope slide through
your hands and jerk it, which would trip the latch on the harpoon,
dropping the hay into the mow. After the horses/tractor have returned
and the main rope is pulled back(and coiled in our barn), you use the
trip rope to pull the trolley back so it will latch into the frog,
releasing the harpoon so you can start over again. In our barn, the
wagon was backed into the center of the barn, and you could send the
hay either direction by shifting the rope and pulleys to the other end
of the barn.

Instead of the single prong or two prong harpoon, another type was a
"grapple" that had either 4 or six largew curved hooks suspended by
chains. You pull them out to the four or six points of the compass and
work them into the hay one at a time. Same drill after that, the trip
rope would unlatch the grapp[les and let the hay drop where you wanted
it.

Norm
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wrote:
On Feb 20, 9:09 pm, "Rob H." wrote:

What kind of baler years ago made 500 lb. bales for the use of the ( farm
tools #8 ) hay harpoon? Old square bales were under a 100 lbs. and big
round balers did not come out until about the 80s.
Thanks Ralph


That information was copied from my original answer for the hay harpoon that
was posted back in November of 2006, I don't remember where I found it. The
link that I had in the answer was to an auction web site page which is no
longer there.

However I did find the link below, on page 15 it mentions an 1850 hay press
that is now in working order and produces bales up to 500 pounds:

http://www.cfcincorporated.com/CFCHistory.pdf

If I ever find where I got my original information I'll let you know.

Rob



Rob,
The hay harpoon was not for large bales. There were several types used
for unloading loose hay from a wagon, hoisting it into the hay mow.
Personally, I've used two types of them. First was a two pronged
harpoon. You used whatever measurew you could to punch it down into
the hay(jab, pull, jab again, etc.) until it was in as far as it would
physically go, then(at least on ours) pull up on a handle whic turened
the bottom 3 to 4" of the prongs 90 deg. to the inside, and the handle
latched there. The top of the harpoon had a rope sheave on it. The end
of the 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" rope was secured to the "trolley", came down
through the sheave on the harpoon, back up to the trolley, over a
sheave there, across the ridge of the barn roof to a pulley at the end
of the barn, then by whatever means necessary to get it outside the
barn where a team of horses or a tractor could pull on it. There was
an angle iron track the full length of the barn ridge(inside).
Directly above where the wagon would sit was what was called a "frog"
attached to the rail. The frog looked like a double ended arrowhead
with a gap between the points. The "trolley" would be pulled back with
the trip rope and would latch in the frog and release the harpoon so
you could pull it down to the wagon. After the harpoon was set, the
horses/tractor would pull on the main rope, lifting about 1/4 of the
load of hay off the wagon. When it was pulled all the way up to the
frog, the harpoon sheave would do 2 things, latch into the trolley AND
release the trolley from the frog, so the trolly and hay woiuld follow
the track toward the end of the barn. When the hay was where you
wanted it in the haymow, you stop letting the trip rope slide through
your hands and jerk it, which would trip the latch on the harpoon,
dropping the hay into the mow. After the horses/tractor have returned
and the main rope is pulled back(and coiled in our barn), you use the
trip rope to pull the trolley back so it will latch into the frog,
releasing the harpoon so you can start over again. In our barn, the
wagon was backed into the center of the barn, and you could send the
hay either direction by shifting the rope and pulleys to the other end
of the barn.

Instead of the single prong or two prong harpoon, another type was a
"grapple" that had either 4 or six largew curved hooks suspended by
chains. You pull them out to the four or six points of the compass and
work them into the hay one at a time. Same drill after that, the trip
rope would unlatch the grapp[les and let the hay drop where you wanted
it.

Norm


Good job Norm, been there,done that, all correct.

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Thanks for the info, sounds like you've done your share of work with hay,
I've never worked on a farm so I'll take your word for it and go ahead and
modify my answer for the hay harpoon.

Rob

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Rob H. wrote:
Thanks for the info, sounds like you've done your share of work with
hay, I've never worked on a farm so I'll take your word for it and go
ahead and modify my answer for the hay harpoon.

Rob


Lucky you. Baling hay is a miserable job.

BTDT Couldn't wear the T-shirt due to the straw down my back.

Dave
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"David G. Nagel" writes:
Rob H. wrote:
Thanks for the info, sounds like you've done your share of work with
hay, I've never worked on a farm so I'll take your word for it and go
ahead and modify my answer for the hay harpoon.

Rob


Lucky you. Baling hay is a miserable job.

BTDT Couldn't wear the T-shirt due to the straw down my back.

Dave


Threshing grain is even worse. BTDT.

http://www.lurndal.org/images/thresh1-300.jpg
http://www.lurndal.org/images/thresh2-300.jpg

(That's a farmall M running the belt, and a farmall B hauling the bundles
and a Super C in the background).

scott


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On Feb 25, 10:20*am, (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
"David G. Nagel" writes:

Rob H. wrote:
Thanks for the info, sounds like you've done your share of work with
hay, I've never worked on a farm so I'll take your word for it and go
ahead and modify my answer for the hay harpoon.


Rob


Lucky you. Baling hay is a miserable job.


BTDT Couldn't wear the T-shirt due to the straw down my back.


Dave


Threshing grain is even worse. *BTDT.

http://www.lurndal.org/images/thresh...hresh2-300.jpg

(That's a farmall M running the belt, and a farmall B hauling the bundles
*and a Super C in the background).

scott


And a seriously nice 1951 Chevy parked in front. I was a tinkerer in
my youth; while my friends were getting big arms tossing bales, I was
under the hood keeping the trucks working.

Whatever happened to them olden days? Amongst the misery of working so
hard after school, for pennies if you were lucky, there was a real
health and vigor in that rural lifestyle. Its not all 'agrarian
mythology'.

I sometimes think of how much the world has changed since then. Not
only the material world, but I think of the stunning natural places
that were around then, but are gone now.

Getting older, I guess. Great pictures.

--riverman
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On Feb 24, 6:01*pm, "Rob H." wrote:
Thanks for the info, sounds like you've done your share of work with hay,
I've never worked on a farm so I'll take your word for it and go ahead and
modify my answer for the hay harpoon.

Rob


You're welcome Rob. Yep, spent most of my youth on a western NY dairy
farm.
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On Feb 24, 6:16*pm, "David G. Nagel"
wrote:
Rob H. wrote:
Thanks for the info, sounds like you've done your share of work with
hay, I've never worked on a farm so I'll take your word for it and go
ahead and modify my answer for the hay harpoon.


Rob


Lucky you. Baling hay is a miserable job.

BTDT Couldn't wear the T-shirt due to the straw down my back.

Dave


Straw down your back wasn't bad. Old "hired man"(worked for room and
board and a little beer money on Sat. night) bunched some hay, put it
up over his head to put on wagon, big grass snake fell out of the hay,
right down his collar.

Norm
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On Feb 24, 8:20*pm, (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
"David G. Nagel" writes:

Rob H. wrote:
Thanks for the info, sounds like you've done your share of work with
hay, I've never worked on a farm so I'll take your word for it and go
ahead and modify my answer for the hay harpoon.


Rob


Lucky you. Baling hay is a miserable job.


BTDT Couldn't wear the T-shirt due to the straw down my back.


Dave


Threshing grain is even worse. *BTDT.

http://www.lurndal.org/images/thresh...hresh2-300.jpg

(That's a farmall M running the belt, and a farmall B hauling the bundles
*and a Super C in the background).

scott


C'mon guys! There are worse jobs than threshing, just can't think of
them at the moment. Done every threshing job EXCEPT working the straw
mow. Had dust allergies so bad I couldn't do it. Working in the field
loading bundles or building the load(one man on each field crew
climbed on the wagon to build back half of load) wasn't too bad.
Assistant unloader @ threshing machine wasn't hard, just noisy.
Bagging oats and taking them into grain bin wasn't bad some places,
Uncles farm had a "corn barn" with grain bins on both stories, but
first floor was about 5' up off ground and second floor was another 8'
up! Take a sack with 2 bushels of oats, prop it up on your shoulder
and hump it up 2 flights of stairs most of the day, you know you've
worked.

Don't get me started, I've got more farming "war stories" than you can
shake a stick at.

Norm
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On Feb 24, 11:47*pm, wrote:
On Feb 24, 6:01*pm, "Rob H." wrote:

Thanks for the info, sounds like you've done your share of work with hay,
I've never worked on a farm so I'll take your word for it and go ahead and
modify my answer for the hay harpoon.


Rob


You're welcome Rob. Yep, spent most of my youth on a western NY dairy
farm.


OK, I gotta ask, Where in WNY? I am in Niagara County.


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riverman writes:
On Feb 25, 10:20=A0am, (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
"David G. Nagel" writes:

Rob H. wrote:
Thanks for the info, sounds like you've done your share of work with
hay, I've never worked on a farm so I'll take your word for it and go
ahead and modify my answer for the hay harpoon.


Rob


Lucky you. Baling hay is a miserable job.


BTDT Couldn't wear the T-shirt due to the straw down my back.


Dave


Threshing grain is even worse. =A0BTDT.

http://www.lurndal.org/images/thresh...dal.org/image=

s/thresh2-300.jpg

(That's a farmall M running the belt, and a farmall B hauling the bundles
=A0and a Super C in the background).

scott


And a seriously nice 1951 Chevy parked in front. I was a tinkerer in
my youth; while my friends were getting big arms tossing bales, I was
under the hood keeping the trucks working.


I really liked that pickup truck. I thought it was better to let the
baler do the tossing: http://www.lurndal.org/images/baler.jpg (Massy 65)

scott
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On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 19:01:33 -0500, "Rob H."
wrote:

Thanks for the info, sounds like you've done your share of work with hay,
I've never worked on a farm so I'll take your word for it and go ahead and
modify my answer for the hay harpoon.

Rob


As long as we are beating this item to death, I'll pile on
too

I believe this may be the patent that goes along with the
tripping/catch mechanism. That is if indeed the Nellis name
is accurate:

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=143775

Some discussion in the text about "penetrating" the hay to
lift.

This patent diagram illustrates actual hay being lifted with
a similar hay-fork:

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=82485

This patent illustrates a similar design to the one on Rob's
page, showing the whole fork:

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=98711

They all discuss in various ways penetrating/thrusting into
the load/hay/wad...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email
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On Feb 25, 8:02*am, Jesse wrote:
On Feb 24, 11:47*pm, wrote:

On Feb 24, 6:01*pm, "Rob H." wrote:


Thanks for the info, sounds like you've done your share of work with hay,
I've never worked on a farm so I'll take your word for it and go ahead and
modify my answer for the hay harpoon.


Rob


You're welcome Rob. Yep, spent most of my youth on a western NY dairy
farm.


OK, I gotta ask, Where in WNY? *I am in Niagara County.


Chautauqua County near Jamestown, little village of Frewsburg.

Norm
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David G. Nagel wrote:
....

Lucky you. Baling hay is a miserable job.


What's so miserable? You drive the baler down the row keeping the
dimension monitor even between the two sides by moving the pickup
from one side of the windrow to the other and when the "Wrap" beeper
blasts, stop, let it wrap and when done, drop the bale. Repeat...

I'll post some pic's from last fall after we had had a nice rain not
long after we had swathed...right now not signed up at any of the free
hosting sites...

BTDT Couldn't wear the T-shirt due to the straw down my back.

....

"Straw" and "hay" are two different things...

Didn't do much hay when young; we were almost all production grain
(wheat, milo) but did always bind and shock a fair amount of dry feed.
I'll take handling square bales over shocking from my experience.

The hay fork in the mow hasn't been used for loose hay since before I
can remember; when we did the re-roof and renovations I intended to get
it out and exercise it just for the experience but got sidetracked and
haven't. I'll add a barn picture or two showing it as well...

SW KS...

--


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On Feb 26, 12:50*am, (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
riverman writes:
On Feb 25, 10:20=A0am, (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
"David G. Nagel" writes:


Rob H. wrote:
Thanks for the info, sounds like you've done your share of work with
hay, I've never worked on a farm so I'll take your word for it and go
ahead and modify my answer for the hay harpoon.


Rob


Lucky you. Baling hay is a miserable job.


BTDT Couldn't wear the T-shirt due to the straw down my back.


Dave


Threshing grain is even worse. =A0BTDT.


http://www.lurndal.org/images/thresh....lurndal.org/i....

s/thresh2-300.jpg


(That's a farmall M running the belt, and a farmall B hauling the bundles
=A0and a Super C in the background).


scott


And a seriously nice 1951 Chevy parked in front. I was a tinkerer in
my youth; while my friends were getting big arms tossing bales, I was
under the hood keeping the trucks working.


I really liked that pickup truck. * I thought it was better to let the
baler do the tossing: *http://www.lurndal.org/images/baler.jpg(Massy 65)

scott- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Lucky you. The community hay farmers used to hire us HS kids to toss
bales onto the trucks, then they'd run the bales up to the hayloft
with a conveyor and the best kids would stack them in the barn. To be
a stacker, you needed to be small, wiry, extremely strong, fast and
able to stack bales strategically so there were air channels flowing
through to prevent them from rotting or burning. The kids who worked
in the hot, claustrophobic barns got paid an extra dollar an hour, and
they could tell you how many bales each barn in town took, and how
many they got in there last year and the year before.

I think of how cityfolk used to sneer at those of us from the deep
rural woods of Maine as being a bit out of time, but I tell you...the
things we knew back then. Some of the local kids who stacked bales
were as adept at spatial reasoning and mental math as anyone on this
newsgroup.

--riverman
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wrote:

On Feb 24, 8:20Â*pm, (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
"David G. Nagel" writes:

Rob H. wrote:
Thanks for the info, sounds like you've done your share of work with
hay, I've never worked on a farm so I'll take your word for it and go
ahead and modify my answer for the hay harpoon.


Rob


Lucky you. Baling hay is a miserable job.


BTDT Couldn't wear the T-shirt due to the straw down my back.


Dave


Threshing grain is even worse. Â*BTDT.


http://www.lurndal.org/images/thresh...hresh2-300.jpg

(That's a farmall M running the belt, and a farmall B hauling the bundles
and a Super C in the background).

scott


C'mon guys! There are worse jobs than threshing, just can't think of
them at the moment.


Worst grain was milo -- I used to feed the stuff and it was the only grain
that I had to wear a bandana to keep from breathing the dust when unloading
or grinding it.

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
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dpb writes:
BTDT Couldn't wear the T-shirt due to the straw down my back.

...

"Straw" and "hay" are two different things...


To some people they may be, but to other people they
are not. Do not think that your chosen argot defines
everyone's language.

Phil, who really doesn't care about the presence or
absense of ******** hanging off any cows he sees.
--
I tried the Vista speech recognition by running the tutorial. I was
amazed, it was awesome, recognised every word I said. Then I said the
wrong word ... and it typed the right one. It was actually just
detecting a sound and printing the expected word! -- pbhj on /.
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"Phil Carmody" wrote in message
...
dpb writes:
BTDT Couldn't wear the T-shirt due to the straw down my back.

...

"Straw" and "hay" are two different things...


To some people they may be, but to other people they
are not. Do not think that your chosen argot defines
everyone's language.

Phil, who really doesn't care about the presence or
absense of ******** hanging off any cows he sees.


May not make any difference in your life but it's still standard English and
not "argot". If you kid is going to do a craft project requiring straw and
you bring him or her hay then it's not going to work out very well. If said
kid has a pet rabbit and you bring it straw to eat instead of hay that's not
going to work out all that well either. And do take your camera to the hat
shop to record the expression on the hatter's face when you ask for a "hay
hat". And I'd like to see you drink soda through a hay.

It's not a fine point of distinction--hay is animal fodder, straw is what's
left over after everything with significant nutritional value has been
removed from the grain plant.



--
I tried the Vista speech recognition by running the tutorial. I was
amazed, it was awesome, recognised every word I said. Then I said the
wrong word ... and it typed the right one. It was actually just
detecting a sound and printing the expected word! -- pbhj on /.


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On Feb 26, 9:22*pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
"Phil Carmody" wrote in message

...

dpb writes:
BTDT Couldn't wear the T-shirt due to the straw down my back.
...


"Straw" and "hay" are two different things...


To some people they may be, but to other people they
are not. Do not think that your chosen argot defines
everyone's language.


Phil, who really doesn't care about the presence or
absense of ******** hanging off any cows he sees.


May not make any difference in your life but it's still standard English and
not "argot". *If you kid is going to do a craft project requiring straw and
you bring him or her hay then it's not going to work out very well. *If said
kid has a pet rabbit and you bring it straw to eat instead of hay that's not
going to work out all that well either. *And do take your camera to the hat
shop to record the expression on the hatter's face when you ask for a *"hay
hat". *And I'd like to see you drink soda through a hay.

It's not a fine point of distinction--hay is animal fodder, straw is what's
left over after everything with significant nutritional value has been
removed from the grain plant.


Which doesn't invalidate the statement that he had 'straw down his
back'. Typically hay bales have both in them. In fact, IIRC, the straw
is more brittle and most of the bale chaff is straw, not hay.

--riverman


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dpb wrote:
....
I'll post some pic's from last fall...


http://dpb.fileave.com/

Not great pictures but indicative of area. Didn't think to take any of
the equipment; I was so enamored by the green as we had been _so_ dry so
long (and are again, unfortunately) was focused on that to the exclusion
of almost everything else at the time. We totaled something over 2000
round bales of roughly 12-1300 lb.

The barn includes one taken in early '20s; it was begun in 1917-18 but
wasn't completed until rationing was lifted after WW I armistice.

This is SW KS...

--
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"J. Clarke" writes:
"Phil Carmody" wrote in message
...
dpb writes:
BTDT Couldn't wear the T-shirt due to the straw down my back.
...

"Straw" and "hay" are two different things...


To some people they may be, but to other people they
are not. Do not think that your chosen argot defines
everyone's language.

Phil, who really doesn't care about the presence or
absense of ******** hanging off any cows he sees.


May not make any difference in your life but it's still standard
English


Well there's your argument blown out of the water.

Phil
--
I tried the Vista speech recognition by running the tutorial. I was
amazed, it was awesome, recognised every word I said. Then I said the
wrong word ... and it typed the right one. It was actually just
detecting a sound and printing the expected word! -- pbhj on /.
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Phil Carmody wrote:
"J. Clarke" writes:
"Phil Carmody" wrote in message
...
dpb writes:
BTDT Couldn't wear the T-shirt due to the straw down my back. ...

"Straw" and "hay" are two different things...

To some people they may be, but to other people they
are not. Do not think that your chosen argot defines
everyone's language.

Phil, who really doesn't care about the presence or
absense of ******** hanging off any cows he sees.


May not make any difference in your life but it's still standard
English


Well there's your argument blown out of the water.


7 posts to this newsgroup, half of them smartassed, none on topic.

plonk

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Default What is it? Set 272

dpb wrote:
....
The barn includes one taken in early '20s; ...


FWIW (not much, granted ), that's my grandfather on the wagon; I'm
the even less distinct blob in the tractor in the other.

Wife took that one; we had just finished knocking down the two old silos
behind the barn (ca 1914-'15) and was picking up and loading debris on
truck. County took it as riprap for side of road along bridge abutment
for erosion control which saved quite sizable disposal bill if had had
to haul to county landfill.

--
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Default What is it? Set 272

On Feb 27, 5:48*am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
Phil Carmody wrote:
"J. Clarke" writes:
"Phil Carmody" wrote in message
...
dpb writes:
BTDT Couldn't wear the T-shirt due to the straw down my back. ...


"Straw" and "hay" are two different things...


To some people they may be, but to other people they
are not. Do not think that your chosen argot defines
everyone's language.


Phil, who really doesn't care about the presence or
absense of ******** hanging off any cows he sees.


May not make any difference in your life but it's still standard
English


Well there's your argument blown out of the water.


7 posts to this newsgroup, half of them smartassed, none on topic.

plonk- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


obPuzzle: What's half of 7?

:-)


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Default What is it? Set 272

Oh shucky darns; you got me going:

Seems like I read somewhere that to teach the draftees during WWI to march
they ran into the problem that a large number did not know left from right.
So they put straw in the privates left foot, and hay in the right. Then the
Sargent would call out Straw foot, Hay foot, Straw foot...... I do not have
a reference, but that seems about right that they woud definitely know the
difference fo staw and hay, even if they did not know left and right.

Oh, and hay was the largest export from the US during WWI. It was the
petroleum of the day.
Bert


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

"Phil Carmody" wrote in message
...
dpb writes:
BTDT Couldn't wear the T-shirt due to the straw down my back.
...

"Straw" and "hay" are two different things...


To some people they may be, but to other people they
are not. Do not think that your chosen argot defines
everyone's language.

Phil, who really doesn't care about the presence or
absense of ******** hanging off any cows he sees.


May not make any difference in your life but it's still standard English
and not "argot". If you kid is going to do a craft project requiring
straw and you bring him or her hay then it's not going to work out very
well. If said kid has a pet rabbit and you bring it straw to eat instead
of hay that's not going to work out all that well either. And do take
your camera to the hat shop to record the expression on the hatter's face
when you ask for a "hay hat". And I'd like to see you drink soda through
a hay.

It's not a fine point of distinction--hay is animal fodder, straw is
what's left over after everything with significant nutritional value has
been removed from the grain plant.



--
I tried the Vista speech recognition by running the tutorial. I was
amazed, it was awesome, recognised every word I said. Then I said the
wrong word ... and it typed the right one. It was actually just
detecting a sound and printing the expected word! -- pbhj on /.




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