I am doing my first project using mahogany. I am using a wood filler before
I apply an oil finish. I bought a wood filler product from Rockler. The
instructions say to sand after the filler has dried but not to sand too hard
or the filler would be removed from the wood pores. Can any one give me some
advice about what grit paper you have used to sand your mahogany after
filling? I would assume something light like 220 but I would like someone
with experience to confirm please.

Thanks.

Dick Snyder

"Dick Snyder" wrote in message
...
I am doing my first project using mahogany. I am using a wood filler before
I apply an oil finish. I bought a wood filler product from Rockler. The
instructions say to sand after the filler has dried but not to sand too
hard or the filler would be removed from the wood pores. Can any one give
me some advice about what grit paper you have used to sand your mahogany
after filling? I would assume something light like 220 but I would like
someone with experience to confirm please.

Thanks.

Dick Snyder


Sand only enough to resmooth the surface and remove excess build up.
Typically I only sand to 180 grit but what ever you use as a last grit
should be OK.

Dick Snyder wrote:
I am doing my first project using mahogany. I am using a wood filler before
I apply an oil finish. I bought a wood filler product from Rockler. The
instructions say to sand after the filler has dried but not to sand too hard
or the filler would be removed from the wood pores. Can any one give me some
advice about what grit paper you have used to sand your mahogany after
filling? I would assume something light like 220 but I would like someone
with experience to confirm please.

Thanks.

Dick Snyder

An oil finish as in tung oil or linseed oil, or as in varnish? I
wouldn't be too inclined to use any kind of filler with tung oil or
linseed oil; that would kinda defeats the purpose IMO.

If you're using oil varnish, will you be staining the wood? Some of
those fillers can look pretty damned ugly stuck in the pores of
perfectly good Mahogany, stain or no. I'd definitely test your methods
on scrap before committing anything to the final workpiece.

--
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"Steve Turner" wrote in message
...
Dick Snyder wrote:
I am doing my first project using mahogany. I am using a wood filler
before I apply an oil finish. I bought a wood filler product from
Rockler. The instructions say to sand after the filler has dried but not
to sand too hard or the filler would be removed from the wood pores. Can
any one give me some advice about what grit paper you have used to sand
your mahogany after filling? I would assume something light like 220 but
I would like someone with experience to confirm please.

Thanks.

Dick Snyder

An oil finish as in tung oil or linseed oil, or as in varnish? I wouldn't
be too inclined to use any kind of filler with tung oil or linseed oil;
that would kinda defeats the purpose IMO.

If you're using oil varnish, will you be staining the wood? Some of those
fillers can look pretty damned ugly stuck in the pores of perfectly good
Mahogany, stain or no. I'd definitely test your methods on scrap before
committing anything to the final workpiece.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

No stain. I will be using General Finishes Seal-A-Cell Clear (an oil and
urethane blend - David Marks uses this product) followed by several coats of
Arm-R-Seal, also from General Finishes. I have some left over mahogany so I
will try the filler on a piece followed by the Seal-A-Cell and then just the
Seal-A-Cell on another piece so I can see the difference.

I assume you are talking about a grain filler to try and get a piano
type surface. If so, an you haven't done this before, you need to
practice quite a bit to learn how. (p.s. don't practice on your
project) I've done grain filling a few times and still never got it
completly right.

Most people use burlap to buff it off after it flashes dry (hazy).
Then sand across the grain so you don't pull the filler out of the
grain lines and I would use a very light hand and 400 if you are
really trying for flat.

On Feb 23, 5:30*am, "Dick Snyder" wrote:
I am doing my first project using mahogany. I am using a wood filler before
I apply an oil finish. I bought a wood filler product from Rockler. The
instructions say to sand after the filler has dried but not to sand too hard
or the filler would be removed from the wood pores. Can any one give me some
advice about what grit paper you have used to sand your mahogany after
filling? I would assume something light like 220 but I would like someone
with experience to confirm please.

Thanks.

Dick Snyder

Dick Snyder wrote:
I am doing my first project using mahogany. I am using a wood filler before
I apply an oil finish. I bought a wood filler product from Rockler. The
instructions say to sand after the filler has dried but not to sand too hard
or the filler would be removed from the wood pores. Can any one give me some
advice about what grit paper you have used to sand your mahogany after
filling? I would assume something light like 220 but I would like someone
with experience to confirm please.

Thanks.

Dick Snyder

I never used filler with mahogany. I used spar varnish, cut 50% for the
first coat. San flat. Then apply full strength, sanding well between
coats. After 3 or 4 coats, the grain should be pretty well sealed and
smooth. If not, sand well and apply again. You should be able to get a
very smooth surface this way, though much depends on your sanding
technique.

Harvey

Dick Snyder wrote:
No stain.

Good. :-) Life is so much easier that way, and Mahogany doesn't need
stain to look fabulous. However, I'm curious as to what the filler is
going to look like without any colorizing...

I will be using General Finishes Seal-A-Cell Clear (an oil and
urethane blend - David Marks uses this product) followed by several
coats of Arm-R-Seal, also from General Finishes.

I've not tried that combination, but it sounds like a reasonable
approach; General Finishes makes a quality product.

I have some left over mahogany so I will try the filler
on a piece followed by the Seal-A-Cell and then just the
Seal-A-Cell on another piece so I can see the difference.

Do report back with your findings.

BTW, is the workpiece relatively "flat" or do you have a lot of contours
to contend with (as with a complex molding or turned legs)? Going for
the "piano" finish (as Sonoma described it) is exponentially more
difficult if you have to deal with all kinds of nooks and crannies...
Case in point: have a look at my "amoire" project if you want to see
the "piano" finish from hell:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboye...7603972580761/

It took me longer to do the finish than it did to construct the dang
thing (complicated *considerably* by the presence of stain), and it's
still nowhere *near* perfect...

--
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To reply, eat the taco.
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Wow. Nice work.


On Feb 23, 10:44*am, Steve Turner wrote:
Dick Snyder wrote:
No stain.

Good. :-) *Life is so much easier that way, and Mahogany doesn't need
stain to look fabulous. *However, I'm curious as to what the filler is
going to look like without any colorizing...

I will be using General Finishes Seal-A-Cell Clear (an oil and
urethane blend - David Marks uses this product) followed by several
coats of Arm-R-Seal, also from General Finishes.

I've not tried that combination, but it sounds like a reasonable
approach; General Finishes makes a quality product.

I have some left over mahogany so I will try the filler
on a piece followed by the Seal-A-Cell and then just the
Seal-A-Cell on another piece so I can see the difference.

Do report back with your findings.

BTW, is the workpiece relatively "flat" or do you have a lot of contours
to contend with (as with a complex molding or turned legs)? *Going for
the "piano" finish (as Sonoma described it) is exponentially more
difficult if you have to deal with all kinds of nooks and crannies...
Case in point: *have a look at my "amoire" project if you want to see
the "piano" finish from hell:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboye...7603972580761/

It took me longer to do the finish than it did to construct the dang
thing (complicated *considerably* by the presence of stain), and it's
still nowhere *near* perfect...

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
Wow. Nice work.

Thank you, sir. That Mahogany is just beautiful and the finish is as
deep as the ocean. You should see it radiate when the light hits it!
Makes me forget all the work I put into it... Almost. :-)

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
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Steve Turner wrote:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboye...7603972580761/


I forgot how much I hate you, until just now. :-p


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Thanks for the tips about filling. I am building three stacking tables. The
tops are a rectangle of curly maple veneer on a baltic birch substrate that
is surrounded by 2 1/2" wide mitered mahogany edges. The legs are rather
thin pieces of mahogany (so that the second and third tables fit inside the
preceeding table without losing a lot of space to leg thickness). I mostly
care about getting a nice finish on the table tops rather than the skinny
legs. I was advised by Rockler to use burlap but I didn't really have any
idea about how to sand it. Your advice is very helpful. I have a top I
messed up with which I am doing experiments.

Thanks again.

Dick


"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
...
I assume you are talking about a grain filler to try and get a piano
type surface. If so, an you haven't done this before, you need to
practice quite a bit to learn how. (p.s. don't practice on your
project) I've done grain filling a few times and still never got it
completly right.

Most people use burlap to buff it off after it flashes dry (hazy).
Then sand across the grain so you don't pull the filler out of the
grain lines and I would use a very light hand and 400 if you are
really trying for flat.

On Feb 23, 5:30 am, "Dick Snyder" wrote:
I am doing my first project using mahogany. I am using a wood filler
before
I apply an oil finish. I bought a wood filler product from Rockler. The
instructions say to sand after the filler has dried but not to sand too
hard
or the filler would be removed from the wood pores. Can any one give me
some
advice about what grit paper you have used to sand your mahogany after
filling? I would assume something light like 220 but I would like someone
with experience to confirm please.

Thanks.

Dick Snyder

WOW! Great work.

"Steve Turner" wrote in message
...
Dick Snyder wrote:
No stain.

Good. :-) Life is so much easier that way, and Mahogany doesn't need
stain to look fabulous. However, I'm curious as to what the filler is
going to look like without any colorizing...

I will be using General Finishes Seal-A-Cell Clear (an oil and
urethane blend - David Marks uses this product) followed by several
coats of Arm-R-Seal, also from General Finishes.

I've not tried that combination, but it sounds like a reasonable approach;
General Finishes makes a quality product.

I have some left over mahogany so I will try the filler
on a piece followed by the Seal-A-Cell and then just the Seal-A-Cell on
another piece so I can see the difference.

Do report back with your findings.

BTW, is the workpiece relatively "flat" or do you have a lot of contours
to contend with (as with a complex molding or turned legs)? Going for the
"piano" finish (as Sonoma described it) is exponentially more difficult if
you have to deal with all kinds of nooks and crannies... Case in point:
have a look at my "amoire" project if you want to see the "piano" finish
from hell:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboye...7603972580761/

It took me longer to do the finish than it did to construct the dang thing
(complicated *considerably* by the presence of stain), and it's still
nowhere *near* perfect...

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

-MIKE- wrote:
Steve Turner wrote:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboye...7603972580761/


I forgot how much I hate you, until just now. :-p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz8ul-gmLyA

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Steve Turner wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
Steve Turner wrote:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboye...7603972580761/


I forgot how much I hate you, until just now. :-p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz8ul-gmLyA


You probably spent half an hour looking that up. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:20:28 -0800, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

I assume you are talking about a grain filler to try and get a piano
type surface. If so, an you haven't done this before, you need to
practice quite a bit to learn how. (p.s. don't practice on your project)
I've done grain filling a few times and still never got it completly
right.

I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but I've read that mixing pumice
with some shellac makes a good grain filler. Apparently the pumice
becomes transparent in the shellac. If anyone here has tried it, how did
it work?



--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

FWIW, am using a product called Bartley paste wood filler. It is natural so
that one could add tinting if desired which I do not. I have filled a
couple of test areas and it is quite transparent. When I put my oil finish
on over it and a neighboring area that had no filler, there is no difference
in color between the filled and unfilled areas.

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
om...
On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:20:28 -0800, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

I assume you are talking about a grain filler to try and get a piano
type surface. If so, an you haven't done this before, you need to
practice quite a bit to learn how. (p.s. don't practice on your project)
I've done grain filling a few times and still never got it completly
right.

I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but I've read that mixing pumice
with some shellac makes a good grain filler. Apparently the pumice
becomes transparent in the shellac. If anyone here has tried it, how did
it work?



--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

You asked for a report back Steve. I have put Bartley wood filler on two
different parts of my project (table top and table legs). After I apply the
oil finish, my eye detects no change in color between the filled and
unfilled table top and same on the leg. The only difference of course is
that the filled areas are smoother.

"Steve Turner" wrote in message
...
Dick Snyder wrote:
No stain.

Good. :-) Life is so much easier that way, and Mahogany doesn't need
stain to look fabulous. However, I'm curious as to what the filler is
going to look like without any colorizing...

I will be using General Finishes Seal-A-Cell Clear (an oil and
urethane blend - David Marks uses this product) followed by several
coats of Arm-R-Seal, also from General Finishes.

I've not tried that combination, but it sounds like a reasonable approach;
General Finishes makes a quality product.

I have some left over mahogany so I will try the filler
on a piece followed by the Seal-A-Cell and then just the Seal-A-Cell on
another piece so I can see the difference.

Do report back with your findings.

BTW, is the workpiece relatively "flat" or do you have a lot of contours
to contend with (as with a complex molding or turned legs)? Going for the
"piano" finish (as Sonoma described it) is exponentially more difficult if
you have to deal with all kinds of nooks and crannies... Case in point:
have a look at my "amoire" project if you want to see the "piano" finish
from hell:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboye...7603972580761/

It took me longer to do the finish than it did to construct the dang thing
(complicated *considerably* by the presence of stain), and it's still
nowhere *near* perfect...

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Dick Snyder wrote:
You asked for a report back Steve. I have put Bartley wood filler on two
different parts of my project (table top and table legs). After I apply the
oil finish, my eye detects no change in color between the filled and
unfilled table top and same on the leg. The only difference of course is
that the filled areas are smoother.

Can't remember if I've ever tried Bartley wood filler, but they make
good stuff so it's not surprising that it gave good results. And if
you're happy with it that's all that matters. :-)

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:20:28 -0800, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

I assume you are talking about a grain filler to try and get a piano
type surface. If so, an you haven't done this before, you need to
practice quite a bit to learn how. (p.s. don't practice on your project)
I've done grain filling a few times and still never got it completly
right.

I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but I've read that mixing pumice
with some shellac makes a good grain filler. Apparently the pumice
becomes transparent in the shellac. If anyone here has tried it, how did
it work?

I have, and once leveled out it looks quite nice. However, for my
armoire project I decided not to go with that approach because the
pumice made the surface very difficult to sand smooth, and it wore out
my sandpaper almost as fast as I could tear off a new piece!

For that project I tried just about every filler approach known to man,
gravitating in the end towards various solids mixed with shellac (I even
tried SALT, which worked surprisingly well but I was afraid it might
react with the wood or have negative effects on the longevity of the
shellac). I was very interested in that "piano" smooth finish, but I
didn't want to see any kind of opaque "filler" in the pores of the wood.
Plus, the fact that stain was involved (water soluble dye) complicated
the process; breaking through the stain when leveling with sandpaper is
*going* to happen, and many of the otherwise successful approaches I
tried broke down when a repair was involved. In the end, I abandoned
solids altogether.

Perhaps the obvious approach would have been a traditional French
polish, and I tried that but my skill level was laughable. The process
I finally used was to stain with dye, followed by coat after coat of
garnet shellac slapped on without any regard for getting it smooth or
level; I was simply going for buildup. Once sufficiently thick, I would
level it with a sharp card scraper (MUCH faster, cleaner, and easier
than sandpaper!), taking almost all of the shellac back off (you can
save the shavings and reuse them by tossing them back into a jar of
alcohol) until the pores were filled. Any time I broke through the
stain, I simply restained that area and repeated the process. Shellac
is a solvent based finish, so there are no witness lines and the repairs
are invisible. Eventually, I got enough buildup to where I could switch
to wet sanding with 400 and 600 grit sandpaper until the surface was
baby-butt smooth, and the final step was to spray on a nice wet coat of
satin lacquer. Done!

I still have most of the twenty or so pieces of scrap Mahogany with the
various failed experiments in finishing, and none can compare with that
simple layer of translucent garnet shellac lying deep within the pores
of the wood. It's purty!

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On Feb 24, 7:20*am, Steve Turner wrote:
Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:20:28 -0800, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

I assume you are talking about a grain filler to try and get a piano
type surface. If so, an you haven't done this before, you need to
practice quite a bit to learn how. (p.s. don't practice on your project)
I've done grain filling a few times and still never got it completly
right.

I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but I've read that mixing pumice
with some shellac makes a good grain filler. *Apparently the pumice
becomes transparent in the shellac. *If anyone here has tried it, how did
it work?

I have, and once leveled out it looks quite nice. *However, for my
armoire project I decided not to go with that approach because the
pumice made the surface very difficult to sand smooth, and it wore out
my sandpaper almost as fast as I could tear off a new piece!

For that project I tried just about every filler approach known to man,
gravitating in the end towards various solids mixed with shellac (I even
tried SALT, which worked surprisingly well but I was afraid it might
react with the wood or have negative effects on the longevity of the
shellac). *I was very interested in that "piano" smooth finish, but I
didn't want to see any kind of opaque "filler" in the pores of the wood.
* Plus, the fact that stain was involved (water soluble dye) complicated
the process; breaking through the stain when leveling with sandpaper is
*going* to happen, and many of the otherwise successful approaches I
tried broke down when a repair was involved. *In the end, I abandoned
solids altogether.

Perhaps the obvious approach would have been a traditional French
polish, and I tried that but my skill level was laughable. *The process
I finally used was to stain with dye, followed by coat after coat of
garnet shellac slapped on without any regard for getting it smooth or
level; I was simply going for buildup. *Once sufficiently thick, I would
level it with a sharp card scraper (MUCH faster, cleaner, and easier
than sandpaper!), taking almost all of the shellac back off (you can
save the shavings and reuse them by tossing them back into a jar of
alcohol) until the pores were filled. *Any time I broke through the
stain, I simply restained that area and repeated the process. *Shellac
is a solvent based finish, so there are no witness lines and the repairs
are invisible. *Eventually, I got enough buildup to where I could switch
to wet sanding with 400 and 600 grit sandpaper until the surface was
baby-butt smooth, and the final step was to spray on a nice wet coat of
satin lacquer. *Done!

I still have most of the twenty or so pieces of scrap Mahogany with the
various failed experiments in finishing, and none can compare with that
simple layer of translucent garnet shellac lying deep within the pores
of the wood. *It's purty!

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Well... if you have a spray rig and can lay down enough lacquer, it
will flatten close to glass all on it's own and a little wet 400
brings it to the piano status pretty easy. Here is an example on a red
oak piece. Granted only the top was coated unitl plastic flat but if
you can do it with rough oak... http://www.sonomaproducts.com/Graphics/JL-ET-large4.gif

On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 09:20:04 -0600, Steve Turner wrote:

Plus, the fact that stain was involved (water soluble dye) complicated
the process; breaking through the stain when leveling with sandpaper is
*going* to happen, and many of the otherwise successful approaches I
tried broke down when a repair was involved. In the end, I abandoned
solids altogether.

Something I've done quite a bit to minimize splotching is to wipe on a
couple of coats of clear shellac, then a coat with alcohol soluble dye
mixed in, and finally a couple more clear coats.

If you filled first and then dyed, it might make leveling the filler less
dangerous.

Thanks for the info on the pumice method. I'll try it next time I want
to fill the pores on something.



--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
Well... if you have a spray rig and can lay down enough lacquer, it
will flatten close to glass all on it's own and a little wet 400
brings it to the piano status pretty easy. Here is an example on a red
oak piece. Granted only the top was coated unitl plastic flat but if
you can do it with rough oak... http://www.sonomaproducts.com/Graphics/JL-ET-large4.gif

Been there and done that; the problem with lacquer is that it shrinks
something terrible. You need to let it cure for several weeks before
you sand it, otherwise it *will* shrink into the pores and will no
longer be glassy smooth. Also, you'd better be dang sure you don't
break through to the wood and/or stain while sanding, or you'll have to
respray the area (which *unshrinks* the surrounding cured lacquer) and
wait all over again. I found the shellac approach to be much more
forgiving.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 09:20:04 -0600, Steve Turner wrote:

Plus, the fact that stain was involved (water soluble dye) complicated
the process; breaking through the stain when leveling with sandpaper is
*going* to happen, and many of the otherwise successful approaches I
tried broke down when a repair was involved. In the end, I abandoned
solids altogether.

Something I've done quite a bit to minimize splotching is to wipe on a
couple of coats of clear shellac, then a coat with alcohol soluble dye
mixed in, and finally a couple more clear coats.

I started off trying to use SolarLux and it's nice stuff, but it has
some sort of (glucose?) binder that made it hard to deal with during
repairs. I didn't try a straight alcohol soluble dye; that might have
played much better together with shellac.

If you filled first and then dyed, it might make leveling the filler less
dangerous.

I tried that (with probably three different brands and types of filler)
and didn't like the look.

Thanks for the info on the pumice method. I'll try it next time I want
to fill the pores on something.

Stock up on sandpaper first! :-)

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/