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#41
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Sign of the times
PDQ wrote:
"Drew Lawson" wrote in message ... In article "J. Clarke" writes: Morris Dovey wrote: SNIP BTW, my first computer programming was in a US public school. I'm still finding that useful, as today's paycheck reminds me. -- Drew Lawson For it's not the fall, but landing, That will alter your social standing Must be nice to be so young. My grade school had no computers - they had not been invented yet. I saw my first computer in my last year of high school - you could walk inside it. The first computer I played with was a 360-50 - only needed half a room for it. Now I have a PC with more power than the 50 and it sits on my desk. Wanna have some fun, google "Hercules". Runs 360 code on a PC faster than any 360 ever did. I still need a bigger and faster playtoy. P D Q -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#42
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Sign of the times
jo4hn wrote:
J. Clarke wrote: Douglas Johnson wrote: "J. Clarke" wrote: The schools are a miserable experience that produce mediocre results. The argument that they are better than nothing doesn't wash. What did you personally learn in the public schools school other than to read and write and do sums that was of any real value in later life? [snip] It taught me how to characterize a problem and to employ logical thought processes in formulating a solution. Lucky you. The only kind of "problem" we were required to "characterize" was "what's going to be on the test". -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#43
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Sign of the times
jo4hn wrote:
J. Clarke wrote: Douglas Johnson wrote: "J. Clarke" wrote: Douglas Johnson wrote: "J. Clarke" wrote: The schools are a miserable experience that produce mediocre results. The argument that they are better than nothing doesn't wash. What did you personally learn in the public schools school other than to read and write and do sums that was of any real value in later life? [snip] Sounds to me like you went to an unusual school. The most important thing I got out of high school was _me_. You are right. School for you was of no real value. Well, it did teach me to resist boredom. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#44
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Sign of the times
PDQ wrote:
"Drew Lawson" wrote in message ... In article "J. Clarke" writes: Morris Dovey wrote: SNIP BTW, my first computer programming was in a US public school. I'm still finding that useful, as today's paycheck reminds me. -- Drew Lawson For it's not the fall, but landing, That will alter your social standing Must be nice to be so young. My grade school had no computers - they had not been invented yet. I saw my first computer in my last year of high school - you could walk inside it. The first computer I played with was a 360-50 - only needed half a room for it. Now I have a PC with more power than the 50 and it sits on my desk. I still need a bigger and faster playtoy. P D Q Reminds me of a Monty Python skit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo -- Free bad advice available here. To reply, eat the taco. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/ |
#45
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Sign of the times
"J. Clarke" wrote in message ... PDQ wrote: "Drew Lawson" wrote in message ... In article "J. Clarke" writes: Morris Dovey wrote: SNIP Now I have a PC with more power than the 50 and it sits on my desk. Wanna have some fun, google "Hercules". Runs 360 code on a PC faster than any 360 ever did. Back when the 50 was new we could get a day's work out of it in 36 hours. Wasn't until I got to use the 65 that I could get a day' work in a day. Later, in the 70 and 90 series, I could get 3 days work in 4 hours. Thank "whomever" for we had a total SNAFU (almost a FUBAR) that took us most of a week to recover. Took me 2 days to figure out how much had been screwed up (by whom) another day to convince the headshed what needed doing to recover and a 4th day implementing the requisite changes. Started at 6:00 one evening and by sunup I had managed to recover the whole week's throughput. I still need a bigger and faster playtoy. P D Q -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#46
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Sign of the times
In article
"J. Clarke" writes: Drew Lawson wrote: In article "J. Clarke" writes: Morris Dovey wrote: My public schools (1967-1980) sound a lot like Morris'. Where was this? Let's see: San Leandro, California Coronado, California Lemoore, California Newport, Rhode Island Springfield, Virginia Elementary in all, Jr High and High School in the last. Based on slightly removed observations, the selections are still similar here in Beavercreek, Ohio (Dayton area). Recent (2-3 years) feedback from Sterling, Virginia says the same. Of course, I started school in the heat of the space race when building the US school system to beat the Russians was a priority. If I were a decade older, thinks might not have been funded so well. (In TV terms, I'm the Brady Bunch generation. I get mixed stories from the Father Knows Best era.) BTW, my first computer programming was in a US public school. I'm still finding that useful, as today's paycheck reminds me. One presumes that that has changed since I was in school--at the time "computer" was something that cost millions of dollars and would have filled the gym handily. I'm thinking that you got taught a thing or three that worked into whatever your career was, but I don't expect you to agree. -- Drew Lawson | Radioactive cats have | 18 half-lives | |
#47
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Sign of the times
Drew Lawson wrote:
In article "J. Clarke" writes: Drew Lawson wrote: In article "J. Clarke" writes: Morris Dovey wrote: My public schools (1967-1980) sound a lot like Morris'. Where was this? Let's see: San Leandro, California Coronado, California Lemoore, California Newport, Rhode Island Springfield, Virginia Elementary in all, Jr High and High School in the last. Based on slightly removed observations, the selections are still similar here in Beavercreek, Ohio (Dayton area). Recent (2-3 years) feedback from Sterling, Virginia says the same. Of course, I started school in the heat of the space race when building the US school system to beat the Russians was a priority. If I were a decade older, thinks might not have been funded so well. (In TV terms, I'm the Brady Bunch generation. I get mixed stories from the Father Knows Best era.) BTW, my first computer programming was in a US public school. I'm still finding that useful, as today's paycheck reminds me. One presumes that that has changed since I was in school--at the time "computer" was something that cost millions of dollars and would have filled the gym handily. I'm thinking that you got taught a thing or three that worked into whatever your career was, but I don't expect you to agree. Not really. Most of what I learned from 6-18 that was engineering related I learned on my own, which got me in trouble because on tests I would put down the right answer instead of the regurgitate the lecture answer. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#48
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Sign of the times
J. Clarke wrote:
Morris Dovey wrote: Not in the US, although the school program was modeled after New York State's curriculum. Don't kids in at least some NY and NJ public schools have the opportunity to learn other languages? I'd be astonished if kids in south FL, TX, AZ, and NM don't have the opportunity to take Spanish. The teacher for both languages was Lebanese (and the only non-American teacher in the school). The public schools in Florida, Virginia, Louisiana, and California, at least when I was there, offered _no_ languages until high school. The Louisiana Catholic parochial schools taught French from first grade on, but no Spanish. That's grim. I don't know about LA, but I'm fairly sure that languages other than English are now common (or at least not rare) in FL, VA, and CA. In high school the Spanish teachers were not native speakers and were marginally competent, which, combined with the starting in high school, meant that most of the students learned "Queiro ir al cuarto de bano" (should be a tilde on that n") and that was the end of it. New York and New Jersey might be better. They would have had to work at it to be much worse. Yeah - at some point along the way someone decided that it was more important for teachers to know about theories of education and how to handle administrivial paperwork than about the subject they were to teach. The results speak for themselves. We sat quietly and regurgitated whatever the teacher told us, no matter how stupid it might have been. I'm sitting here giving thanks that this didn't happen to me because I'd have been dead meat - I can learn, but I've never been able to memorize anything. I was blessed (although it didn't always seem that way at the time) with teachers who wanted their students to /think/ - who were always asking: "So where do we go with that?" or "When might that be useful?". I had an English teacher (not in public school) who regularly walked over in front of my desk, looked down at me, and smiled broadly just before he'd ask: "And what does The Dove think of /that/?" I'm sitting here laughing about it now, but in the beginning it absolutely terrified me. Well, you begin to see the problem. I don't deny that there must be _some_ decent public schools out there, but I never attended any. The two good teachers in the ones I attended were constantly battling the system. I /do/ see the problem. Somehow we need to replace indifferent instructors with _teachers_ who know their subject, the value of its knowledge, and who see that the future is in the hands of their students. It's the "somehow" that's the hard part. Good that you managed to hit on a field in which you could apply _something_. Most people need to know about potics like they need a hole in the head. Hmm. I was a math major who went into computer new product development (and who only rarely ever used any of the math) :-b I only tackled the solar technology because (at age 60) I decided it was important enough and potentially valuable enough to use up my last years demonstrating its potential. Think of it as an attempt to be worthy of the efforts of those Good Teachers, however lame that might seem. -- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/ |
#49
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Sign of the times
Morris Dovey wrote:
J. Clarke wrote: Morris Dovey wrote: Not in the US, although the school program was modeled after New York State's curriculum. Don't kids in at least some NY and NJ public schools have the opportunity to learn other languages? I'd be astonished if kids in south FL, TX, AZ, and NM don't have the opportunity to take Spanish. The teacher for both languages was Lebanese (and the only non-American teacher in the school). The public schools in Florida, Virginia, Louisiana, and California, at least when I was there, offered _no_ languages until high school. The Louisiana Catholic parochial schools taught French from first grade on, but no Spanish. That's grim. I don't know about LA, but I'm fairly sure that languages other than English are now common (or at least not rare) in FL, VA, and CA. But introduced at what level? If they don't start it until high school then most students are not going to develop any fluency. In high school the Spanish teachers were not native speakers and were marginally competent, which, combined with the starting in high school, meant that most of the students learned "Queiro ir al cuarto de bano" (should be a tilde on that n") and that was the end of it. New York and New Jersey might be better. They would have had to work at it to be much worse. Yeah - at some point along the way someone decided that it was more important for teachers to know about theories of education and how to handle administrivial paperwork than about the subject they were to teach. The results speak for themselves. And now they're loaded down with paperwork to satisfy the bureaucrats besides. We sat quietly and regurgitated whatever the teacher told us, no matter how stupid it might have been. I'm sitting here giving thanks that this didn't happen to me because I'd have been dead meat - I can learn, but I've never been able to memorize anything. I was blessed (although it didn't always seem that way at the time) with teachers who wanted their students to /think/ - who were always asking: "So where do we go with that?" or "When might that be useful?". I had an English teacher (not in public school) who regularly walked over in front of my desk, looked down at me, and smiled broadly just before he'd ask: "And what does The Dove think of /that/?" I'm sitting here laughing about it now, but in the beginning it absolutely terrified me. Well, you begin to see the problem. I don't deny that there must be _some_ decent public schools out there, but I never attended any. The two good teachers in the ones I attended were constantly battling the system. I /do/ see the problem. Somehow we need to replace indifferent instructors with _teachers_ who know their subject, And we have to get off the backs of the ones who do. I have a friend who has a PhD in education and is a retired teacher. Every time I see him he has another horror story passed on to him by one of the many teachers with whom he has contact. Idiocy like being disciplined for answering a student's question with anything other than "look it up" on the basis that they're "supposed to be teaching studends how to learn" for example. I don't know how widespread that sort of thing is--he seems to think it's pretty commonplace. The last teacher I dated was good with the kids and good with dealing with the administration, but quite frankly outside of work she was NUTS (not going to go into anecdotes) and I suspect that the work had done it to her. the value of its knowledge, and who see that the future is in the hands of their students. It's the "somehow" that's the hard part. Good that you managed to hit on a field in which you could apply _something_. Most people need to know about potics like they need a hole in the head. Hmm. I was a math major who went into computer new product development (and who only rarely ever used any of the math) :-b I only tackled the solar technology because (at age 60) I decided it was important enough and potentially valuable enough to use up my last years demonstrating its potential. Think of it as an attempt to be worthy of the efforts of those Good Teachers, however lame that might seem. Good thought. The thing is if I was going to do something worhty of my Good Teachers I'd be an author, and in that area, well, I have seen talent and it is something that I lack. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#50
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Sign of the times
"jo4hn" wrote in message It taught me how to characterize a problem and to employ logical thought processes in formulating a solution. mahalo, jo4hn Old fashioned. Nobody does that any more. |
#51
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Sign of the times
J. Clarke wrote:
Morris Dovey wrote: I don't know about LA, but I'm fairly sure that languages other than English are now common (or at least not rare) in FL, VA, and CA. But introduced at what level? If they don't start it until high school then most students are not going to develop any fluency. I suspect that about the best that can be hoped for is /preparation/ for fluency. For most of us, real fluency probably only comes with actual use of a language. AFAICT, the most effective route to fluency is a total immersion - and that's difficult to do in a school setting. I /do/ see the problem. Somehow we need to replace indifferent instructors with _teachers_ who know their subject, And we have to get off the backs of the ones who do. I have a friend who has a PhD in education and is a retired teacher. Every time I see him he has another horror story passed on to him by one of the many teachers with whom he has contact. Idiocy like being disciplined for answering a student's question with anything other than "look it up" on the basis that they're "supposed to be teaching students how to learn" for example. I don't know how widespread that sort of thing is--he seems to think it's pretty commonplace. From what I've heard, it's at least not unusual. The last teacher I dated was good with the kids and good with dealing with the administration, but quite frankly outside of work she was NUTS (not going to go into anecdotes) and I suspect that the work had done it to her. The thing is if I was going to do something worhty of my Good Teachers I'd be an author, and in that area, well, I have seen talent and it is something that I lack. -- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/ |
#52
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Sign of the times
Morris Dovey wrote:
Not in the US, although the school program was modeled after New York State's curriculum. Just for grins, I looked to see if the school is still there (it is). This online satellite imagery stuff just boggles my mind - there's a bird's eye view of the school, my home, and the rec center where I spent a lot of my time at http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Misc/AbqaiqSatAn.jpg And you can get a look at the "moonscape" around the town by going to Google maps and specifying 'Abqaiq, Saudi Arabia'. Any green you see outside the town is /not/ vegetation. -- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/ |
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