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Default Wasteful Packaging

I was talking to someone a little while ago about wasteful packaging. It
appears to be even worse than I imagined.

I recently ordered a DeWalt D26453K random orbit sander, the one with that
comes with the big, black, plastic case containing the sander and absolutely
nothing else. Cost? $103.99. From the same company, I also priced the D26453
sander without the case. Cost? $114.99. Explain that to me?

With marketing like that, it's no wonder we're being inundated with garbage.
Future societies, if they do eventually come to exist, will certainly look
on us as the garbage generations. I also predict that future space
exploration will spend a good deal of it's time transporting garbage to dead
planets or shooting garbage into suns for disposal. Maybe we'll get lucky
and find a true method of matter/energy conversion.


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On Dec 21, 1:10*pm, "Upscale" wrote:
I was talking to someone a little while ago about wasteful packaging. It
appears to be even worse than I imagined.

I recently ordered a DeWalt D26453K random orbit sander, the one with that
comes with the big, black, plastic case containing the sander and absolutely
nothing else. Cost? $103.99. From the same company, I also priced the D26453
sander without the case. Cost? $114.99. *Explain that to me?

With marketing like that, it's no wonder we're being inundated with garbage.
Future societies, if they do eventually come to exist, will certainly look
on us as the garbage generations. I also predict that future space
exploration will spend a good deal of it's time transporting garbage to dead
planets or shooting garbage into suns for disposal. Maybe we'll get lucky
and find a true method of matter/energy conversion.


I totally support throwing garbage into volcanos.
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"Robatoy" wrote in message
I totally support throwing garbage into volcanos.


Wouldn't that put up ash, the same as burning stuff now?


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"Upscale" wrote:

I recently ordered a DeWalt D26453K random orbit sander, the one
with that
comes with the big, black, plastic case containing the sander and
absolutely
nothing else. Cost? $103.99. From the same company, I also priced
the D26453
sander without the case. Cost? $114.99. Explain that to me?


Pretty straight forward, theft and volume.

The oversize packaging helps to thwart retail theft, therefore
increased cost of packaging is offset by reduction in theft.

Since most of the sales are of product are with packaging, providing a
product for sale without packaging represents a special which
translates into lower volume, thus higher cost.

Higher sales price will also make the special "go away".

Lew


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"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
Pretty straight forward, theft and volume.


I guess that makes sense, but it sure seems screwed up. In any event, the
sander case is doing duty for a kid who now proudly gets to display his new
DeWalt lunch box.




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Default Wasteful Packaging



Upscale wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message

Pretty straight forward, theft and volume.



I guess that makes sense, but it sure seems screwed up. In any event, the
sander case is doing duty for a kid who now proudly gets to display his new
DeWalt lunch box.


I saw a news item that Amazon is to start offering various products with
minimal and bio-degradable packaging.
No retail stores so no problems with shoplifting.
John

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Bored Borg wrote:
Kreg Mini..

Kit is the jig, drill bit, stop collar.

Retail £14.95



replacement drill bit £15.99 (no collar)
replacement collar £2.99


Explain, please, someone?

Many of these situations can be explained by the fact that the cost of
the packaging materials and labor to make the package is worth more that
the item being packaged. I have gone through the local hardware store
and found many items where this is true.

One way to check the cost of packaging is to look at an items where the
package is essentially the same, and compare the cost of several sizes.
One example I found was the cork pads to put on chairs so they don't
damage the hardwood floors. You could buy packages of 4, 8, 12, and 16
piece. The cost was $2.20 $2.40 $2.60, and $2.80 projecting the cost
back through zero the cost of the packaging was about $2.00, and the
item was about a $0.05/piece.

If you look you can find many examples of this.

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"Upscale" wrote in message

With marketing like that, it's no wonder we're being inundated with
garbage.
Future societies, if they do eventually come to exist, will certainly look
on us as the garbage generations. I also predict that future space
exploration will spend a good deal of it's time transporting garbage to
dead
planets or shooting garbage into suns for disposal. Maybe we'll get lucky
and find a true method of matter/energy conversion.



Trash to energy plants. Not a perfect solution, but sure helps.


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Keith nuttle wrote:
Bored Borg wrote:
Kreg Mini..

Kit is the jig, drill bit, stop collar.

Retail £14.95



replacement drill bit £15.99 (no collar)
replacement collar £2.99


Explain, please, someone?

Many of these situations can be explained by the fact that the cost of
the packaging materials and labor to make the package is worth more that
the item being packaged. I have gone through the local hardware store
and found many items where this is true.

One way to check the cost of packaging is to look at an items where the
package is essentially the same, and compare the cost of several sizes.
One example I found was the cork pads to put on chairs so they don't
damage the hardwood floors. You could buy packages of 4, 8, 12, and 16
piece. The cost was $2.20 $2.40 $2.60, and $2.80 projecting the cost
back through zero the cost of the packaging was about $2.00, and the
item was about a $0.05/piece.

If you look you can find many examples of this.


I'm guessing pricing has a lot more to do with supply and demand and
many other marketing factors than the actual price of the materials in
the product/package.

I've seen the same package of "stuff" in several different home stores
for roughly the same price.
The same identical package of "stuff' will be at several different craft
stores for a different price.
The only difference (when there is any) is the printing on the cardboard
insert. Maybe a different font or coloring, to appeal to frumpy middle
aged woman, rather than macho middle aged men.

The bean counters have figured out the market value of the "stuff" to
that particular market and demographic and they price it for maximum
profit.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
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-MIKE- wrote:
Keith nuttle wrote:
Bored Borg wrote:
Kreg Mini..

Kit is the jig, drill bit, stop collar.

Retail £14.95



replacement drill bit £15.99 (no collar)
replacement collar £2.99


Explain, please, someone?

Many of these situations can be explained by the fact that the cost of
the packaging materials and labor to make the package is worth more
that the item being packaged. I have gone through the local hardware
store and found many items where this is true.

One way to check the cost of packaging is to look at an items where
the package is essentially the same, and compare the cost of several
sizes. One example I found was the cork pads to put on chairs so
they don't damage the hardwood floors. You could buy packages of 4,
8, 12, and 16 piece. The cost was $2.20 $2.40 $2.60, and $2.80
projecting the cost back through zero the cost of the packaging was
about $2.00, and the item was about a $0.05/piece.

If you look you can find many examples of this.


I'm guessing pricing has a lot more to do with supply and demand and
many other marketing factors than the actual price of the materials in
the product/package.

I've seen the same package of "stuff" in several different home stores
for roughly the same price.
The same identical package of "stuff' will be at several different craft
stores for a different price.
The only difference (when there is any) is the printing on the cardboard
insert. Maybe a different font or coloring, to appeal to frumpy middle
aged woman, rather than macho middle aged men.

The bean counters have figured out the market value of the "stuff" to
that particular market and demographic and they price it for maximum
profit.


Word that will place a premium price on any item are to call it
Scientific, (or a variation), Marine, or Organic.


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Keith nuttle wrote:

-MIKE- wrote:
Keith nuttle wrote:
Bored Borg wrote:
Kreg Mini..

.... snip
The bean counters have figured out the market value of the "stuff" to
that particular market and demographic and they price it for maximum
profit.


Word that will place a premium price on any item are to call it
Scientific, (or a variation), Marine, or Organic.


Add to that, "Green"

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

The oversize packaging helps to thwart retail theft, therefore
increased cost of packaging is offset by reduction in theft.


We live in a world of very cheap RFID...

Large packaging is no longer an excuse.
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Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"Upscale" wrote in message

With marketing like that, it's no wonder we're being inundated with
garbage.
Future societies, if they do eventually come to exist, will
certainly look on us as the garbage generations. I also predict
that
future space exploration will spend a good deal of it's time
transporting garbage to dead
planets or shooting garbage into suns for disposal. Maybe we'll get
lucky and find a true method of matter/energy conversion.



Trash to energy plants. Not a perfect solution, but sure helps.


Helps in reducing trash but compared to conventional plants they're
expensive to run, especially if they also have to be clean.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


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Keith nuttle wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
Keith nuttle wrote:
Bored Borg wrote:
Kreg Mini..

Kit is the jig, drill bit, stop collar.

Retail £14.95



replacement drill bit £15.99 (no collar)
replacement collar £2.99


Explain, please, someone?

Many of these situations can be explained by the fact that the
cost
of the packaging materials and labor to make the package is worth
more that the item being packaged. I have gone through the local
hardware store and found many items where this is true.

One way to check the cost of packaging is to look at an items
where
the package is essentially the same, and compare the cost of
several
sizes. One example I found was the cork pads to put on chairs so
they don't damage the hardwood floors. You could buy packages of
4,
8, 12, and 16 piece. The cost was $2.20 $2.40 $2.60, and $2.80
projecting the cost back through zero the cost of the packaging
was
about $2.00, and the item was about a $0.05/piece.

If you look you can find many examples of this.


I'm guessing pricing has a lot more to do with supply and demand
and
many other marketing factors than the actual price of the materials
in the product/package.

I've seen the same package of "stuff" in several different home
stores for roughly the same price.
The same identical package of "stuff' will be at several different
craft stores for a different price.
The only difference (when there is any) is the printing on the
cardboard insert. Maybe a different font or coloring, to appeal to
frumpy middle aged woman, rather than macho middle aged men.

The bean counters have figured out the market value of the "stuff"
to
that particular market and demographic and they price it for
maximum
profit.


Word that will place a premium price on any item are to call it
Scientific, (or a variation), Marine, or Organic.


Or any word that suggests that it is for us on aircraft.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


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Bored Borg wrote:

Kreg Mini..

Kit is the jig, drill bit, stop collar.

Retail £14.95



replacement drill bit £15.99 (no collar)
replacement collar £2.99


Explain, please, someone?


They might have figured out that anybody who buys the kit is likely to buy
additional bits later and thus it's profitable to sell the bits for more.
Who is going to toss the jig just because they lost or broke the bit?




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Bored Borg wrote:

Kreg Mini..

Kit is the jig, drill bit, stop collar.

Retail £14.95



replacement drill bit £15.99 (no collar)
replacement collar £2.99


Explain, please, someone?


As PT Barnum is credited with saying, "there is a sucker born every
minute."

Lew


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J. Clarke wrote:

Or any word that suggests that it is for us on aircraft.


You are NOT kidding!

I pay $50 for a wheelbarrow inner tube!
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On Dec 21, 6:50*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
Bored Borg wrote:
Kreg Mini..


Kit is the jig, drill bit, stop collar.


Retail £14.95


replacement drill bit *£15.99 (no collar)
replacement collar *£2.99


Explain, please, someone?


As PT Barnum is credited with saying, "there is a sucker born every
minute."

Lew


Sorry. Barnum was way off. It's more like 5,000 a second.
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Stuart wrote:


They might have figured out that anybody who buys the kit is likely to buy
additional bits later and thus it's profitable to sell the bits for more.
Who is going to toss the jig just because they lost or broke the bit?



Bit like the inkjet printer scenario. You buy the cartridges, the printer
comes free :-)


I think that gimmick came into being back in February 1900 when Kodak
introduced the Brownie camera.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

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"Stuart" wrote:

I wonder who much goes missing directly from their warehouse.



AKA: Internal shrinkage

Not much is said about it, but "Internal shrinkage" has been a major
problem at Home Depot for years.

Lew





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B A R R Y wrote:

Lew Hodgett wrote:

The oversize packaging helps to thwart retail theft, therefore
increased cost of packaging is offset by reduction in theft.


We live in a world of very cheap RFID...

Large packaging is no longer an excuse.


The packaging may take up a good deal of volume due to air space, but how
much actual material is in that plastic box? I suspect that if one were to
compress it to a flat object (i.e., flatten, not compress the actual
material), it's not all that outrageous.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
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Nova wrote:
Stuart wrote:


They might have figured out that anybody who buys the kit is likely
to buy additional bits later and thus it's profitable to sell the
bits for more. Who is going to toss the jig just because they lost or
broke the bit?



Bit like the inkjet printer scenario. You buy the cartridges, the printer
comes free :-)


I think that gimmick came into being back in February 1900 when Kodak
introduced the Brownie camera.

Or when Gillette marketed their first safety razor.
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jo4hn wrote:
Nova wrote:

Stuart wrote:


Bit like the inkjet printer scenario. You buy the cartridges, the
printer
comes free :-)


I think that gimmick came into being back in February 1900 when Kodak
introduced the Brownie camera.

Or when Gillette marketed their first safety razor.


The Gillette Safety Razor came shortly after the "Brownie" as the razor
was patented in November 1904.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

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"J. Clarke" wrote in message

Trash to energy plants. Not a perfect solution, but sure helps.


Helps in reducing trash but compared to conventional plants they're
expensive to run, especially if they also have to be clean.

--
--
--John


It may be more costly, but with more built they can eventually engineer some
cost out or improve efficiency. At some point we will no longer have the
luxury of digging holes and burying trash. Or it will be very costly to
ship the trash to holes a long way away. Remember the NYC garbage barge?


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Somebody wrote:

Trash to energy plants. Not a perfect solution, but sure helps.


The court of last resort.

Recycling is not only more efficient, but less costly.

Lew





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Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message

Trash to energy plants. Not a perfect solution, but sure helps.


Helps in reducing trash but compared to conventional plants they're
expensive to run, especially if they also have to be clean.

--
--
--John


It may be more costly, but with more built they can eventually
engineer some cost out or improve efficiency. At some point we will
no longer have the luxury of digging holes and burying trash. Or it
will be very costly to ship the trash to holes a long way away.
Remember the NYC garbage barge?


The problem is that trash isn't consistent and contains many
components that don't burn. There's no way that a trash-fueled plant
will _ever_ be cost competitive with a conventional plant.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


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Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
Trash to energy plants. Not a perfect solution, but sure helps.

Helps in reducing trash but compared to conventional plants they're
expensive to run, especially if they also have to be clean.

--
--
--John


It may be more costly, but with more built they can eventually engineer some
cost out or improve efficiency. At some point we will no longer have the
luxury of digging holes and burying trash. Or it will be very costly to
ship the trash to holes a long way away. Remember the NYC garbage barge?



It will be a very long time before we run out out room for trash dumps.
They really are very small in comparison to other land uses. For example
how big is the average NFL stadium or MLB park. You could pack a lot of
garbage and trash in one. No one complains about a football or baseball
stadium. I wonder why that is?

I do agree about the packaging though. I have a hole in my hand from
where the knife slipped when I was trying to open a plastic package. It
still hurts.

Dave
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Lew Hodgett wrote:
Somebody wrote:

Trash to energy plants. Not a perfect solution, but sure helps.


The court of last resort.

Recycling is not only more efficient, but less costly.

Lew




As long as the price paid is high enough. Recycling is the perfect
example of There being no such thing as a free lunch.
The current economic down turn has pretty much sent the recycling
programs to the dump.

Dave
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"J. Clarke" wrote

The problem is that trash isn't consistent and contains many
components that don't burn. There's no way that a trash-fueled plant
will _ever_ be cost competitive with a conventional plant.

And trash contains many toxic elements as well. I read of one proposal that
would burn so hot, that little toxicity would remain. The catch?? It would
require a lot of fuel to burn up the toxic components. Which may be a way
to to take care of toxins, but a lousy way to generate power.



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Lee Michaels wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote

The problem is that trash isn't consistent and contains many
components that don't burn. There's no way that a trash-fueled
plant
will _ever_ be cost competitive with a conventional plant.

And trash contains many toxic elements as well. I read of one
proposal that would burn so hot, that little toxicity would remain.
The catch?? It would require a lot of fuel to burn up the toxic
components. Which may be a way to to take care of toxins, but a
lousy way to generate power.


Yup.

And meanwhile, is the government doing anything about junk mail?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)




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"J. Clarke" wrote

And meanwhile, is the government doing anything about junk mail?

Using it to subsidize the regular mail. Which is a losing propositiion.
Most of the mail that is used by the consumer is used to pay bills. And
that function is rapidly being taken over by digital bill paying services
that is offered by almost all banks now.



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Lee Michaels wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote

And meanwhile, is the government doing anything about junk mail?

Using it to subsidize the regular mail. Which is a losing
propositiion. Most of the mail that is used by the consumer is used
to pay bills. And that function is rapidly being taken over by
digital bill paying services that is offered by almost all banks
now.


And meanwhile the landfills fill up with unrecyclable junk mail.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


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"Lee Michaels" wrote:

And trash contains many toxic elements as well. I read of one
proposal that would burn so hot, that little toxicity would remain.
The catch?? It would require a lot of fuel to burn up the toxic
components. Which may be a way to to take care of toxins, but a
lousy way to generate power.


To get rid of the really nasty stuff, it gets sent to the cement
plant.

Cement kilns operate at very high temps on a sustained basis.

Here in SoCal, have at least 6 cement plants, they all process waste.

Lew



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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:10:46 -0500, "Upscale" wrote:

I was talking to someone a little while ago about wasteful packaging. It
appears to be even worse than I imagined.

I recently ordered a DeWalt D26453K random orbit sander, the one with that
comes with the big, black, plastic case containing the sander and absolutely
nothing else. Cost? $103.99. From the same company, I also priced the D26453
sander without the case. Cost? $114.99. Explain that to me?

With marketing like that, it's no wonder we're being inundated with garbage.
Future societies, if they do eventually come to exist, will certainly look
on us as the garbage generations. I also predict that future space
exploration will spend a good deal of it's time transporting garbage to dead
planets or shooting garbage into suns for disposal. Maybe we'll get lucky
and find a true method of matter/energy conversion.

Yep.. one of my long-standing "peeves"..
Buy a kid a small toy and spend 10 minutes cutting away the packaging...

Buy a part and it comes in a cardboard box with packing material inside to
protect a metal part in plastic armor.. What a waste..
Wrap the sucker in yesterdays newspaper and put it in a small box..

When we moved a couple of years ago, I sent about a dozen new, unused "blow
molded" tool cases to the recyclers...
Does anyone that uses the tools ever put them back in the case, unless they're
using them out of the shop?


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing
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On Dec 21, 1:10 pm, "Upscale" wrote:
I was talking to someone a little while ago about wasteful packaging. It
appears to be even worse than I imagined.

I recently ordered a DeWalt D26453K random orbit sander, the one with that
comes with the big, black, plastic case containing the sander and absolutely
nothing else. Cost? $103.99. From the same company, I also priced the D26453
sander without the case. Cost? $114.99. Explain that to me?


Take a look at the prices of the ubiquitous 2-1/4 hp router kits with
fixed and plunge bases, two collets, wrench(es), maybe even a starter
set of 1/4" bits or other accessories, and of course a giant case to
hold it all. Then price out just getting a replacement motor, which
will cost more. Which just tells you the competition is keeping the
margins down on the kits.


-Kevin


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J. Clarke wrote:

And meanwhile the landfills fill up with unrecyclable junk mail.


My town recycles it, window envelopes and all.
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:44:45 GMT, Lew Hodgett cast forth these pearls of
wisdom...:

"Stuart" wrote:

I wonder who much goes missing directly from their warehouse.



AKA: Internal shrinkage

Not much is said about it, but "Internal shrinkage" has been a major
problem at Home Depot for years.


Actually, internal shrink at HD is not much of a problem. The much bigger
shrink problem at HD is outright theft (people walk out with nice new power
tools and nobody can stop them), product damage ("normal" shipping and
handling damage, sub-contractor damage, etc.). If you could see the
biggest shrink items by department at HD, you'd quickly see that it is not
stuff employees walk off with.


--

-Mike-

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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:05:48 +0000 (GMT), Stuart cast forth these pearls of
wisdom...:

In article ,
John Siegel wrote:
I saw a news item that Amazon is to start offering various products with
minimal and bio-degradable packaging.
No retail stores so no problems with shoplifting.


They employ people don't they?

I wonder who much goes missing directly from their warehouse.

Back in the good (bad?) old days when Coventry made cars, you could, if so
inclined, buy whole engines that had somehow managed to find their way out
of the manufacturing plant without being noticed.


It's a 60, 61, 62, 63, custom automobile. I got it one piece at a time.
You might say I went right to the factory and picked it up - it's cheaper
that way...

--

-Mike-

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Default Wasteful Packaging


"Mike Marlow" wrote:

Actually, internal shrink at HD is not much of a problem. The much
bigger
shrink problem at HD is outright theft (people walk out with nice
new power
tools and nobody can stop them), product damage ("normal" shipping
and
handling damage, sub-contractor damage, etc.). If you could see the
biggest shrink items by department at HD, you'd quickly see that it
is not
stuff employees walk off with.


Since I know some HD employees who are in a position to have knowledge
of the situation, I'll stand by the comment that internal shrinkage is
a real problem.

That's not to say that customers are not a major problem when it comes
to "5 finger discount" activity, but when employees are taken into
custody and handcuffed while on the sales floor, on a regular basis,
you have to wonder.

BTW, this is not isolated to one store.

I won't go into detail here, but there are some amazing schemes
attempted to steal from HD.

I'm sure other retailers have there own problems.

Lew


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"Lew Hodgett" wrote

"Mike Marlow" wrote:

Actually, internal shrink at HD is not much of a problem. The much
bigger
shrink problem at HD is outright theft (people walk out with nice new
power
tools and nobody can stop them), product damage ("normal" shipping and
handling damage, sub-contractor damage, etc.). If you could see the
biggest shrink items by department at HD, you'd quickly see that it is
not
stuff employees walk off with.


Since I know some HD employees who are in a position to have knowledge of
the situation, I'll stand by the comment that internal shrinkage is a real
problem.

That's not to say that customers are not a major problem when it comes to
"5 finger discount" activity, but when employees are taken into custody
and handcuffed while on the sales floor, on a regular basis, you have to
wonder.

BTW, this is not isolated to one store.

I won't go into detail here, but there are some amazing schemes attempted
to steal from HD.

There was a theft ring that targeted Home Depot here years ago. They had
somebody from the inside supply information as to when certain items,
including appliances, were delivered at night. The theives than just waited
and loaded up the items onto their own truck. The big boxes of merchandise
never even entered the store. They were snatched from the back lot. It
went on for several months before they figured out what was happening.

And yes, it was an inside job.



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