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#1
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Wasteful Packaging
I was talking to someone a little while ago about wasteful packaging. It
appears to be even worse than I imagined. I recently ordered a DeWalt D26453K random orbit sander, the one with that comes with the big, black, plastic case containing the sander and absolutely nothing else. Cost? $103.99. From the same company, I also priced the D26453 sander without the case. Cost? $114.99. Explain that to me? With marketing like that, it's no wonder we're being inundated with garbage. Future societies, if they do eventually come to exist, will certainly look on us as the garbage generations. I also predict that future space exploration will spend a good deal of it's time transporting garbage to dead planets or shooting garbage into suns for disposal. Maybe we'll get lucky and find a true method of matter/energy conversion. |
#2
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Wasteful Packaging
On Dec 21, 1:10*pm, "Upscale" wrote:
I was talking to someone a little while ago about wasteful packaging. It appears to be even worse than I imagined. I recently ordered a DeWalt D26453K random orbit sander, the one with that comes with the big, black, plastic case containing the sander and absolutely nothing else. Cost? $103.99. From the same company, I also priced the D26453 sander without the case. Cost? $114.99. *Explain that to me? With marketing like that, it's no wonder we're being inundated with garbage. Future societies, if they do eventually come to exist, will certainly look on us as the garbage generations. I also predict that future space exploration will spend a good deal of it's time transporting garbage to dead planets or shooting garbage into suns for disposal. Maybe we'll get lucky and find a true method of matter/energy conversion. I totally support throwing garbage into volcanos. |
#3
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Wasteful Packaging
"Robatoy" wrote in message I totally support throwing garbage into volcanos. Wouldn't that put up ash, the same as burning stuff now? |
#4
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Wasteful Packaging
"Upscale" wrote:
I recently ordered a DeWalt D26453K random orbit sander, the one with that comes with the big, black, plastic case containing the sander and absolutely nothing else. Cost? $103.99. From the same company, I also priced the D26453 sander without the case. Cost? $114.99. Explain that to me? Pretty straight forward, theft and volume. The oversize packaging helps to thwart retail theft, therefore increased cost of packaging is offset by reduction in theft. Since most of the sales are of product are with packaging, providing a product for sale without packaging represents a special which translates into lower volume, thus higher cost. Higher sales price will also make the special "go away". Lew |
#5
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Wasteful Packaging
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message Pretty straight forward, theft and volume. I guess that makes sense, but it sure seems screwed up. In any event, the sander case is doing duty for a kid who now proudly gets to display his new DeWalt lunch box. |
#6
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Wasteful Packaging
Upscale wrote: "Lew Hodgett" wrote in message Pretty straight forward, theft and volume. I guess that makes sense, but it sure seems screwed up. In any event, the sander case is doing duty for a kid who now proudly gets to display his new DeWalt lunch box. I saw a news item that Amazon is to start offering various products with minimal and bio-degradable packaging. No retail stores so no problems with shoplifting. John |
#7
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Wasteful Packaging
Bored Borg wrote:
Kreg Mini.. Kit is the jig, drill bit, stop collar. Retail £14.95 replacement drill bit £15.99 (no collar) replacement collar £2.99 Explain, please, someone? Many of these situations can be explained by the fact that the cost of the packaging materials and labor to make the package is worth more that the item being packaged. I have gone through the local hardware store and found many items where this is true. One way to check the cost of packaging is to look at an items where the package is essentially the same, and compare the cost of several sizes. One example I found was the cork pads to put on chairs so they don't damage the hardwood floors. You could buy packages of 4, 8, 12, and 16 piece. The cost was $2.20 $2.40 $2.60, and $2.80 projecting the cost back through zero the cost of the packaging was about $2.00, and the item was about a $0.05/piece. If you look you can find many examples of this. |
#8
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Wasteful Packaging
"Upscale" wrote in message With marketing like that, it's no wonder we're being inundated with garbage. Future societies, if they do eventually come to exist, will certainly look on us as the garbage generations. I also predict that future space exploration will spend a good deal of it's time transporting garbage to dead planets or shooting garbage into suns for disposal. Maybe we'll get lucky and find a true method of matter/energy conversion. Trash to energy plants. Not a perfect solution, but sure helps. |
#9
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Wasteful Packaging
Keith nuttle wrote:
Bored Borg wrote: Kreg Mini.. Kit is the jig, drill bit, stop collar. Retail £14.95 replacement drill bit £15.99 (no collar) replacement collar £2.99 Explain, please, someone? Many of these situations can be explained by the fact that the cost of the packaging materials and labor to make the package is worth more that the item being packaged. I have gone through the local hardware store and found many items where this is true. One way to check the cost of packaging is to look at an items where the package is essentially the same, and compare the cost of several sizes. One example I found was the cork pads to put on chairs so they don't damage the hardwood floors. You could buy packages of 4, 8, 12, and 16 piece. The cost was $2.20 $2.40 $2.60, and $2.80 projecting the cost back through zero the cost of the packaging was about $2.00, and the item was about a $0.05/piece. If you look you can find many examples of this. I'm guessing pricing has a lot more to do with supply and demand and many other marketing factors than the actual price of the materials in the product/package. I've seen the same package of "stuff" in several different home stores for roughly the same price. The same identical package of "stuff' will be at several different craft stores for a different price. The only difference (when there is any) is the printing on the cardboard insert. Maybe a different font or coloring, to appeal to frumpy middle aged woman, rather than macho middle aged men. The bean counters have figured out the market value of the "stuff" to that particular market and demographic and they price it for maximum profit. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#10
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Wasteful Packaging
-MIKE- wrote:
Keith nuttle wrote: Bored Borg wrote: Kreg Mini.. Kit is the jig, drill bit, stop collar. Retail £14.95 replacement drill bit £15.99 (no collar) replacement collar £2.99 Explain, please, someone? Many of these situations can be explained by the fact that the cost of the packaging materials and labor to make the package is worth more that the item being packaged. I have gone through the local hardware store and found many items where this is true. One way to check the cost of packaging is to look at an items where the package is essentially the same, and compare the cost of several sizes. One example I found was the cork pads to put on chairs so they don't damage the hardwood floors. You could buy packages of 4, 8, 12, and 16 piece. The cost was $2.20 $2.40 $2.60, and $2.80 projecting the cost back through zero the cost of the packaging was about $2.00, and the item was about a $0.05/piece. If you look you can find many examples of this. I'm guessing pricing has a lot more to do with supply and demand and many other marketing factors than the actual price of the materials in the product/package. I've seen the same package of "stuff" in several different home stores for roughly the same price. The same identical package of "stuff' will be at several different craft stores for a different price. The only difference (when there is any) is the printing on the cardboard insert. Maybe a different font or coloring, to appeal to frumpy middle aged woman, rather than macho middle aged men. The bean counters have figured out the market value of the "stuff" to that particular market and demographic and they price it for maximum profit. Word that will place a premium price on any item are to call it Scientific, (or a variation), Marine, or Organic. |
#11
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Wasteful Packaging
Keith nuttle wrote:
-MIKE- wrote: Keith nuttle wrote: Bored Borg wrote: Kreg Mini.. .... snip The bean counters have figured out the market value of the "stuff" to that particular market and demographic and they price it for maximum profit. Word that will place a premium price on any item are to call it Scientific, (or a variation), Marine, or Organic. Add to that, "Green" -- If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Wasteful Packaging
Lew Hodgett wrote:
The oversize packaging helps to thwart retail theft, therefore increased cost of packaging is offset by reduction in theft. We live in a world of very cheap RFID... Large packaging is no longer an excuse. |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Wasteful Packaging
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"Upscale" wrote in message With marketing like that, it's no wonder we're being inundated with garbage. Future societies, if they do eventually come to exist, will certainly look on us as the garbage generations. I also predict that future space exploration will spend a good deal of it's time transporting garbage to dead planets or shooting garbage into suns for disposal. Maybe we'll get lucky and find a true method of matter/energy conversion. Trash to energy plants. Not a perfect solution, but sure helps. Helps in reducing trash but compared to conventional plants they're expensive to run, especially if they also have to be clean. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#14
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Wasteful Packaging
Keith nuttle wrote:
-MIKE- wrote: Keith nuttle wrote: Bored Borg wrote: Kreg Mini.. Kit is the jig, drill bit, stop collar. Retail £14.95 replacement drill bit £15.99 (no collar) replacement collar £2.99 Explain, please, someone? Many of these situations can be explained by the fact that the cost of the packaging materials and labor to make the package is worth more that the item being packaged. I have gone through the local hardware store and found many items where this is true. One way to check the cost of packaging is to look at an items where the package is essentially the same, and compare the cost of several sizes. One example I found was the cork pads to put on chairs so they don't damage the hardwood floors. You could buy packages of 4, 8, 12, and 16 piece. The cost was $2.20 $2.40 $2.60, and $2.80 projecting the cost back through zero the cost of the packaging was about $2.00, and the item was about a $0.05/piece. If you look you can find many examples of this. I'm guessing pricing has a lot more to do with supply and demand and many other marketing factors than the actual price of the materials in the product/package. I've seen the same package of "stuff" in several different home stores for roughly the same price. The same identical package of "stuff' will be at several different craft stores for a different price. The only difference (when there is any) is the printing on the cardboard insert. Maybe a different font or coloring, to appeal to frumpy middle aged woman, rather than macho middle aged men. The bean counters have figured out the market value of the "stuff" to that particular market and demographic and they price it for maximum profit. Word that will place a premium price on any item are to call it Scientific, (or a variation), Marine, or Organic. Or any word that suggests that it is for us on aircraft. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Wasteful Packaging
Bored Borg wrote:
Kreg Mini.. Kit is the jig, drill bit, stop collar. Retail £14.95 replacement drill bit £15.99 (no collar) replacement collar £2.99 Explain, please, someone? They might have figured out that anybody who buys the kit is likely to buy additional bits later and thus it's profitable to sell the bits for more. Who is going to toss the jig just because they lost or broke the bit? |
#16
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Wasteful Packaging
Bored Borg wrote:
Kreg Mini.. Kit is the jig, drill bit, stop collar. Retail £14.95 replacement drill bit £15.99 (no collar) replacement collar £2.99 Explain, please, someone? As PT Barnum is credited with saying, "there is a sucker born every minute." Lew |
#17
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Wasteful Packaging
J. Clarke wrote:
Or any word that suggests that it is for us on aircraft. You are NOT kidding! I pay $50 for a wheelbarrow inner tube! |
#18
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Wasteful Packaging
On Dec 21, 6:50*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
Bored Borg wrote: Kreg Mini.. Kit is the jig, drill bit, stop collar. Retail £14.95 replacement drill bit *£15.99 (no collar) replacement collar *£2.99 Explain, please, someone? As PT Barnum is credited with saying, "there is a sucker born every minute." Lew Sorry. Barnum was way off. It's more like 5,000 a second. |
#19
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Wasteful Packaging
Stuart wrote:
They might have figured out that anybody who buys the kit is likely to buy additional bits later and thus it's profitable to sell the bits for more. Who is going to toss the jig just because they lost or broke the bit? Bit like the inkjet printer scenario. You buy the cartridges, the printer comes free :-) I think that gimmick came into being back in February 1900 when Kodak introduced the Brownie camera. -- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA |
#20
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Wasteful Packaging
"Stuart" wrote:
I wonder who much goes missing directly from their warehouse. AKA: Internal shrinkage Not much is said about it, but "Internal shrinkage" has been a major problem at Home Depot for years. Lew |
#21
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Wasteful Packaging
B A R R Y wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote: The oversize packaging helps to thwart retail theft, therefore increased cost of packaging is offset by reduction in theft. We live in a world of very cheap RFID... Large packaging is no longer an excuse. The packaging may take up a good deal of volume due to air space, but how much actual material is in that plastic box? I suspect that if one were to compress it to a flat object (i.e., flatten, not compress the actual material), it's not all that outrageous. -- If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough |
#22
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Wasteful Packaging
Nova wrote:
Stuart wrote: They might have figured out that anybody who buys the kit is likely to buy additional bits later and thus it's profitable to sell the bits for more. Who is going to toss the jig just because they lost or broke the bit? Bit like the inkjet printer scenario. You buy the cartridges, the printer comes free :-) I think that gimmick came into being back in February 1900 when Kodak introduced the Brownie camera. Or when Gillette marketed their first safety razor. |
#23
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Wasteful Packaging
jo4hn wrote:
Nova wrote: Stuart wrote: Bit like the inkjet printer scenario. You buy the cartridges, the printer comes free :-) I think that gimmick came into being back in February 1900 when Kodak introduced the Brownie camera. Or when Gillette marketed their first safety razor. The Gillette Safety Razor came shortly after the "Brownie" as the razor was patented in November 1904. -- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA |
#24
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Wasteful Packaging
"J. Clarke" wrote in message Trash to energy plants. Not a perfect solution, but sure helps. Helps in reducing trash but compared to conventional plants they're expensive to run, especially if they also have to be clean. -- -- --John It may be more costly, but with more built they can eventually engineer some cost out or improve efficiency. At some point we will no longer have the luxury of digging holes and burying trash. Or it will be very costly to ship the trash to holes a long way away. Remember the NYC garbage barge? |
#25
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Wasteful Packaging
Somebody wrote:
Trash to energy plants. Not a perfect solution, but sure helps. The court of last resort. Recycling is not only more efficient, but less costly. Lew |
#26
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Wasteful Packaging
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message Trash to energy plants. Not a perfect solution, but sure helps. Helps in reducing trash but compared to conventional plants they're expensive to run, especially if they also have to be clean. -- -- --John It may be more costly, but with more built they can eventually engineer some cost out or improve efficiency. At some point we will no longer have the luxury of digging holes and burying trash. Or it will be very costly to ship the trash to holes a long way away. Remember the NYC garbage barge? The problem is that trash isn't consistent and contains many components that don't burn. There's no way that a trash-fueled plant will _ever_ be cost competitive with a conventional plant. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#27
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Wasteful Packaging
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message Trash to energy plants. Not a perfect solution, but sure helps. Helps in reducing trash but compared to conventional plants they're expensive to run, especially if they also have to be clean. -- -- --John It may be more costly, but with more built they can eventually engineer some cost out or improve efficiency. At some point we will no longer have the luxury of digging holes and burying trash. Or it will be very costly to ship the trash to holes a long way away. Remember the NYC garbage barge? It will be a very long time before we run out out room for trash dumps. They really are very small in comparison to other land uses. For example how big is the average NFL stadium or MLB park. You could pack a lot of garbage and trash in one. No one complains about a football or baseball stadium. I wonder why that is? I do agree about the packaging though. I have a hole in my hand from where the knife slipped when I was trying to open a plastic package. It still hurts. Dave |
#28
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Wasteful Packaging
Lew Hodgett wrote:
Somebody wrote: Trash to energy plants. Not a perfect solution, but sure helps. The court of last resort. Recycling is not only more efficient, but less costly. Lew As long as the price paid is high enough. Recycling is the perfect example of There being no such thing as a free lunch. The current economic down turn has pretty much sent the recycling programs to the dump. Dave |
#29
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Wasteful Packaging
"J. Clarke" wrote The problem is that trash isn't consistent and contains many components that don't burn. There's no way that a trash-fueled plant will _ever_ be cost competitive with a conventional plant. And trash contains many toxic elements as well. I read of one proposal that would burn so hot, that little toxicity would remain. The catch?? It would require a lot of fuel to burn up the toxic components. Which may be a way to to take care of toxins, but a lousy way to generate power. |
#30
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Wasteful Packaging
Lee Michaels wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote The problem is that trash isn't consistent and contains many components that don't burn. There's no way that a trash-fueled plant will _ever_ be cost competitive with a conventional plant. And trash contains many toxic elements as well. I read of one proposal that would burn so hot, that little toxicity would remain. The catch?? It would require a lot of fuel to burn up the toxic components. Which may be a way to to take care of toxins, but a lousy way to generate power. Yup. And meanwhile, is the government doing anything about junk mail? -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#31
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Wasteful Packaging
"J. Clarke" wrote And meanwhile, is the government doing anything about junk mail? Using it to subsidize the regular mail. Which is a losing propositiion. Most of the mail that is used by the consumer is used to pay bills. And that function is rapidly being taken over by digital bill paying services that is offered by almost all banks now. |
#32
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Wasteful Packaging
Lee Michaels wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote And meanwhile, is the government doing anything about junk mail? Using it to subsidize the regular mail. Which is a losing propositiion. Most of the mail that is used by the consumer is used to pay bills. And that function is rapidly being taken over by digital bill paying services that is offered by almost all banks now. And meanwhile the landfills fill up with unrecyclable junk mail. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#33
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Wasteful Packaging
"Lee Michaels" wrote:
And trash contains many toxic elements as well. I read of one proposal that would burn so hot, that little toxicity would remain. The catch?? It would require a lot of fuel to burn up the toxic components. Which may be a way to to take care of toxins, but a lousy way to generate power. To get rid of the really nasty stuff, it gets sent to the cement plant. Cement kilns operate at very high temps on a sustained basis. Here in SoCal, have at least 6 cement plants, they all process waste. Lew |
#34
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Wasteful Packaging
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:10:46 -0500, "Upscale" wrote:
I was talking to someone a little while ago about wasteful packaging. It appears to be even worse than I imagined. I recently ordered a DeWalt D26453K random orbit sander, the one with that comes with the big, black, plastic case containing the sander and absolutely nothing else. Cost? $103.99. From the same company, I also priced the D26453 sander without the case. Cost? $114.99. Explain that to me? With marketing like that, it's no wonder we're being inundated with garbage. Future societies, if they do eventually come to exist, will certainly look on us as the garbage generations. I also predict that future space exploration will spend a good deal of it's time transporting garbage to dead planets or shooting garbage into suns for disposal. Maybe we'll get lucky and find a true method of matter/energy conversion. Yep.. one of my long-standing "peeves".. Buy a kid a small toy and spend 10 minutes cutting away the packaging... Buy a part and it comes in a cardboard box with packing material inside to protect a metal part in plastic armor.. What a waste.. Wrap the sucker in yesterdays newspaper and put it in a small box.. When we moved a couple of years ago, I sent about a dozen new, unused "blow molded" tool cases to the recyclers... Does anyone that uses the tools ever put them back in the case, unless they're using them out of the shop? mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
#35
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Wasteful Packaging
On Dec 21, 1:10 pm, "Upscale" wrote:
I was talking to someone a little while ago about wasteful packaging. It appears to be even worse than I imagined. I recently ordered a DeWalt D26453K random orbit sander, the one with that comes with the big, black, plastic case containing the sander and absolutely nothing else. Cost? $103.99. From the same company, I also priced the D26453 sander without the case. Cost? $114.99. Explain that to me? Take a look at the prices of the ubiquitous 2-1/4 hp router kits with fixed and plunge bases, two collets, wrench(es), maybe even a starter set of 1/4" bits or other accessories, and of course a giant case to hold it all. Then price out just getting a replacement motor, which will cost more. Which just tells you the competition is keeping the margins down on the kits. -Kevin |
#36
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Wasteful Packaging
J. Clarke wrote:
And meanwhile the landfills fill up with unrecyclable junk mail. My town recycles it, window envelopes and all. |
#37
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Wasteful Packaging
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:44:45 GMT, Lew Hodgett cast forth these pearls of
wisdom...: "Stuart" wrote: I wonder who much goes missing directly from their warehouse. AKA: Internal shrinkage Not much is said about it, but "Internal shrinkage" has been a major problem at Home Depot for years. Actually, internal shrink at HD is not much of a problem. The much bigger shrink problem at HD is outright theft (people walk out with nice new power tools and nobody can stop them), product damage ("normal" shipping and handling damage, sub-contractor damage, etc.). If you could see the biggest shrink items by department at HD, you'd quickly see that it is not stuff employees walk off with. -- -Mike- |
#38
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Wasteful Packaging
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:05:48 +0000 (GMT), Stuart cast forth these pearls of
wisdom...: In article , John Siegel wrote: I saw a news item that Amazon is to start offering various products with minimal and bio-degradable packaging. No retail stores so no problems with shoplifting. They employ people don't they? I wonder who much goes missing directly from their warehouse. Back in the good (bad?) old days when Coventry made cars, you could, if so inclined, buy whole engines that had somehow managed to find their way out of the manufacturing plant without being noticed. It's a 60, 61, 62, 63, custom automobile. I got it one piece at a time. You might say I went right to the factory and picked it up - it's cheaper that way... -- -Mike- |
#39
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Wasteful Packaging
"Mike Marlow" wrote: Actually, internal shrink at HD is not much of a problem. The much bigger shrink problem at HD is outright theft (people walk out with nice new power tools and nobody can stop them), product damage ("normal" shipping and handling damage, sub-contractor damage, etc.). If you could see the biggest shrink items by department at HD, you'd quickly see that it is not stuff employees walk off with. Since I know some HD employees who are in a position to have knowledge of the situation, I'll stand by the comment that internal shrinkage is a real problem. That's not to say that customers are not a major problem when it comes to "5 finger discount" activity, but when employees are taken into custody and handcuffed while on the sales floor, on a regular basis, you have to wonder. BTW, this is not isolated to one store. I won't go into detail here, but there are some amazing schemes attempted to steal from HD. I'm sure other retailers have there own problems. Lew |
#40
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Wasteful Packaging
"Lew Hodgett" wrote "Mike Marlow" wrote: Actually, internal shrink at HD is not much of a problem. The much bigger shrink problem at HD is outright theft (people walk out with nice new power tools and nobody can stop them), product damage ("normal" shipping and handling damage, sub-contractor damage, etc.). If you could see the biggest shrink items by department at HD, you'd quickly see that it is not stuff employees walk off with. Since I know some HD employees who are in a position to have knowledge of the situation, I'll stand by the comment that internal shrinkage is a real problem. That's not to say that customers are not a major problem when it comes to "5 finger discount" activity, but when employees are taken into custody and handcuffed while on the sales floor, on a regular basis, you have to wonder. BTW, this is not isolated to one store. I won't go into detail here, but there are some amazing schemes attempted to steal from HD. There was a theft ring that targeted Home Depot here years ago. They had somebody from the inside supply information as to when certain items, including appliances, were delivered at night. The theives than just waited and loaded up the items onto their own truck. The big boxes of merchandise never even entered the store. They were snatched from the back lot. It went on for several months before they figured out what was happening. And yes, it was an inside job. |
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