Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

http://porchmonkey.250free.com/2houses.jpg

I built this (see link below) for my kids a while back. At that time,
and against my better judgement, I took the advice from my local
lumberyard and did not concrete the 4"×6" posts into the post holes.
Gradually, it has begun to tilt to the left.
It is a very sturdy and heavy little building, and I think the
counterman did not fully grasp what I was up to when I asked him.

I designed it to match the dwelling. It has 2×4 stud walls and roof
trusses, asphalt shingle roof, walls insulated and wired, cedar lap
siding, OSB wall and roof sheathing, custom aluminum storm windows and
other features. All built on 8'×12' deck, using 2"×12" treated floor
joists on 2' spacing and 5/4 treated floor decking with 2" rigid foam
foiled floor insulation. 2"×6" double corner brace atall 4 corners.
Floor deck height is about 6' and peak of roof is about 17'. Sandbox
below and 2 swings at the back end.

Does anybody have ideas how to right and stabilize it? The soils here in
South Michigan are somewhat peaty/clay/swampy, so I don't think merely
jacking and re-fastening the bond joists to the uprights would be a
final solution. Or possibly splicing an arrangement of screw jacks? I
dunno.

I ended up with about $2000 US in it and really don't want to lose it,
as I have 2 smaller kids now that love it just as well as the oldest
girl, who is still sleeping in it with her gal pals occasionally.
Emails welcome.

http://porchmonkey.250free.com/2houses.jpg

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

"RM MS" wrote:

Does anybody have ideas how to right and stabilize it?

Yes, but you may not like my suggestion.

Basically, you are going to have to jack up the structure and put a
footer under it that extends below the frost line which is probably
30"-36" below grade for Michigan.

You will need a bunch of cribbing and either a house jack or at least
a couple of 20 ton hydraulic jacks.

Jack the building up about 12"-18", then cut existing legs off to get
at what is left in the ground.

Dig about a 12" dia hole below the grade level, then install 12"
SonoTube forms so they are about 6"-12" above grade.

Install a couple of "J" bolts (Typical way roadway lighting poles are
installed) that will be used to secure wooden corner posts on top of
concrete after cure.

Pour concrete and flush top surface to receive galvanized steel
bracket that will be bolted to the wooden post as well as the "J" bolt
anchor bolts in the concrete.

Once cured, lower house and complete installation.

SFWIW, find a boat mover around Detroit area.

They will have the cribbing and the jacks, and if done in off season,
may be a good deal for both of you.

PS: I wouldn't wish this job on any amateur without having some on
site PRO assistance available.

Lew

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

I'm not sure how to stabilize it, but in Pisa Italy there is a
building that has been similarly leaning for a long time. They
decided not to fix it, but rather charge people to come see it.

Just a thought... ;)
Mark

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

"DejaVoodoo" wrote

I'm not sure how to stabilize it, but in Pisa Italy there is a
building that has been similarly leaning for a long time. They
decided not to fix it, but rather charge people to come see it.

Just a thought... ;)

I know you are just a funnin'

But......, they did not ignore this leaning tower. They have spent a lot of
time and money to stabilize it. At the same time, they wanted to preserve
the "lean". After all, they did not want to "straighten" a major tourist
attraction.

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

On Nov 24, 3:21*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"RM MS" wrote:
Does anybody have ideas how to right and stabilize it?

Yes, but you may not like my suggestion.

Basically, you are going to have to jack up the structure and put a
footer under it that extends below the frost line which is probably
30"-36" below grade for Michigan.

You will need a bunch of cribbing and either a house jack or at least
a couple of 20 ton hydraulic jacks.

Jack the building up about 12"-18", then cut existing legs off to get
at what is left in the ground.

Dig about a 12" dia hole below the grade level, then install 12"
SonoTube forms so they are about 6"-12" above grade.

Install a couple of "J" bolts (Typical way roadway lighting poles are
installed) that will be used to secure wooden corner posts on top of
concrete after cure.

Pour concrete and flush top surface to receive galvanized steel
bracket that will be bolted to the wooden post as well as the "J" bolt
anchor bolts in the concrete.

Once cured, lower house and complete installation.

SFWIW, find a boat mover around Detroit area.

They will have the cribbing and the jacks, and if done in off season,
may be a good deal for both of you.

PS: I wouldn't wish this job on any amateur without having some on
site PRO assistance available.

Lew

I agree with Lew about the digging the holes and using the tubes with
concrete...However, if you could dig the holes offset to the current 4
x4, do the concrte first then jack it up and shift it over you may
find that easier.. Since you'd be doing the digging at your leisure
and can pour the concrete into the forms and get them all set up to go
without having to have the structure jacked up (and have you worrying
about it maybe collapsing on you). Unless you have a lot of cribbing
materials around and are comfortable in doing that type of work. When
ever I've seen it done, its alot of big timber (6 x 6") on top of each
other... That in itself may get in the way of digging the holes.
Also, when you raise it you got to worry about the stairs...

But how to shift it over? I don't have a good solution for
you...other than a crane.

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:37:18 -0500, (RM MS) wrote:

http://porchmonkey.250free.com/2houses.jpg

I built this (see link below) for my kids a while back. At that time,
and against my better judgement, I took the advice from my local
lumberyard and did not concrete the 4"×6" posts into the post holes.
Gradually, it has begun to tilt to the left.
It is a very sturdy and heavy little building, and I think the
counterman did not fully grasp what I was up to when I asked him.

I designed it to match the dwelling. It has 2×4 stud walls and roof
trusses, asphalt shingle roof, walls insulated and wired, cedar lap
siding, OSB wall and roof sheathing, custom aluminum storm windows and
other features. All built on 8'×12' deck, using 2"×12" treated floor
joists on 2' spacing and 5/4 treated floor decking with 2" rigid foam
foiled floor insulation. 2"×6" double corner brace atall 4 corners.
Floor deck height is about 6' and peak of roof is about 17'. Sandbox
below and 2 swings at the back end.

Does anybody have ideas how to right and stabilize it? The soils here in
South Michigan are somewhat peaty/clay/swampy, so I don't think merely
jacking and re-fastening the bond joists to the uprights would be a
final solution. Or possibly splicing an arrangement of screw jacks? I
dunno.

I ended up with about $2000 US in it and really don't want to lose it,
as I have 2 smaller kids now that love it just as well as the oldest
girl, who is still sleeping in it with her gal pals occasionally.
Emails welcome.

http://porchmonkey.250free.com/2houses.jpg


Dig down around the dropped post, jack it up and pour a concrete
footing under it like you knew you should have in the first place?

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:37:18 -0500, (RM MS) wrote:

Does anybody have ideas how to right and stabilize it?

Dig under the high side and wash away the soil, the building will
settle level. In a few years you'll be able to get rid of the stairs.
A compressor hose or burrowing rodent will probably work too but in
the case of the latter they will need to be well trained.


--

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message

But......, they did not ignore this leaning tower. They have spent a lot
of time and money to stabilize it. At the same time, they wanted to
preserve the "lean". After all, they did not want to "straighten" a major
tourist attraction.

Sure, that is the only draw that Pisa has. Next stop, Lucca.

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

Mike wrote in news:75lmi4hc5981b610kvpknkjrk9phg23j11@
4ax.com:

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:37:18 -0500, (RM MS) wrote:

Does anybody have ideas how to right and stabilize it?

Dig under the high side and wash away the soil, the building will
settle level. In a few years you'll be able to get rid of the stairs.
A compressor hose or burrowing rodent will probably work too but in
the case of the latter they will need to be well trained.



Want some burrowing rodents to train? You're welcome to as many as you can
catch. :-)

Puckdropper
--
On Usenet, no one can hear you laugh. That's a good thing, though, as some
writers are incorrigible.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

Build the correct foundation using sona tubes.

Hire somebody with a large LULL(BIG forklift)

Set it in place....done

This will require executing a new command
called SPENDMONEYAFTERASCREWUP

and be careful.
and don't tell anybody what you did.
and remember, your wife will NEVER forget this.


RM MS wrote:
http://porchmonkey.250free.com/2houses.jpg

I built this (see link below) for my kids a while back. At that time,
and against my better judgement, I took the advice from my local
lumberyard and did not concrete the 4"×6" posts into the post holes.
Gradually, it has begun to tilt to the left.

It is a very sturdy and heavy little building, and I think the
counterman did not fully grasp what I was up to when I asked him.

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

Lew, I had thought about some kind of industral lift or fork truck to
lift it while I do the jobs below. There is a good sized marina at the
end of my street. I wonder how mch they charge per hour and if there are
permits needed to drive it here?
I am most concerned about keeping the thing stable while above ground,
simple jacks won't work, without some sideways stabilization, it will
just fall over.
I appreciate your ideas, thanks,
-Bob-

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

The corner posts are 4"×6". The stairs will come off easily, they are
laying in hangers and screwed thru the bond joist, not a issue.
Mainly, the shifting phase is the big problem.

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

". . .like you knew you should have in the first place?"

Thanks, jackass.

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

RM MS wrote:
Lew, I had thought about some kind of industral lift or fork truck to
lift it while I do the jobs below. There is a good sized marina at the
end of my street. I wonder how mch they charge per hour and if there are
permits needed to drive it here?
I am most concerned about keeping the thing stable while above ground,
simple jacks won't work, without some sideways stabilization, it will
just fall over.

I'd go under each corner one at a time w/ large timber (looks like the
leg timbers used would be adequate material) inside the present corner
and block and cribbage there solidly w/ sufficient area to ensure stability.

Then that leg could be detached and the necessary depth of pilings
poured and replaced, moving on to the next.

Adequate cribbing and jacking from house- or boat-moving folks.

Don't need the whole thing at one time--just to be able to get to one at
a time (or at most one end if want to do it that way).

Other than the height, did 38x66 barn w/ 40-ft to loft ridge to replace
sill plates and repair rotted stud ends same way -- work from one corner
around about half the length/width at a time.

--

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

"RM MS" wrote:

Lew, I had thought about some kind of industral lift or fork truck
to
lift it while I do the jobs below. There is a good sized marina at
the
end of my street. I wonder how mch they charge per hour and if there
are
permits needed to drive it here?
I am most concerned about keeping the thing stable while above
ground,
simple jacks won't work, without some sideways stabilization, it
will
just fall over.

What you need is a boat mover who has a hydraulic trailer.

The marina probably won't have one, but should be able to put you in
touch.

Been to the movie:

Game goes as follows:

Boat mover will have cribbing and house jacks.

Cut legs, jack up house, drive trailer under, then position trailer
cross beams using on board trailer hydraulics, then finish lifting
house.

Once on trailer, move house fwd to clear area.

Rent a gasoline powered auger to drill holes.

The rest as previously as described.

If you don't move house off property, permits not req'd to move
trailer over the road.

Have done this a few times moving a 55 ft sail boat.

Your house is a piece of cake to move; however, it is NOT a DIY
project.

Nobody in their right mind would rent their equipment because of the
liability issues for starters.

Where are you located?

BTW, you do realize this is a $5-$10K project which is based on you
being a grunt assistant?


Lew

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

BTW, you do realize this is a $5-$10K project which is based on you
being a grunt assistant?

Got to thinking about cost estimate.

Boat mover should do the job for less than $1K, especially if it is a
cash transaction.

$500/hole should give you a reasonable estimate.

$10K seems a little much on 2nd thought.

Lew

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

dpb wrote:
....

Adequate cribbing and jacking from house- or boat-moving folks.

....

Actually, depending on where you are -- the cheap source of cribbing,
etc., in VA where used to be was the small sawmills cutting timbers for
the mines and/or ties for the N&W. They always had end cuts for cheap.

If something like that's not an option, as Les says, may pay to simply
have a housemover come do the jacking for you, let you do the pilings
work then come set it back down.

Given the open space I see no reason why they couldn't do that in a
manner that would leave the corners unobstructed w/o actually moving the
building.

BTW, I guess you know that one-side-open staircase isn't code-compliant? :)

It's a nice looking little playhouse altho "play" is probably too
diminutive an adjective.

--

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

If you could Jack it up to level and add pt 4.6 beams across the soil
tied to each corner post, that should stabilize it, no?

You could also dig a trench between each pait of posts and pour an
after the fact footer upon which to rest the horizontal support beams,
but I think the wood would do.

When we redid our home in Fl, the floor joists needed repair work and
my wife and I jacked up the back side of the addition with the jacks
from her Ford Aspire and my Pontiac Grand Am!

Another approach might be to dig eight holes just (2ft ?) outside the
perimeter at the corners, fill those with Concrete and use them to
support vertical (6x6 ?) members that would support horizontal (4x6)
members :"latticed" under the existing structure after it was leveled.
THen, add a "walk" (with railing) around the new perimeter as if
intended all along.

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

PS: Nice looking structure.

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

(One corner at a time)
Yes, I think that is the key to it--

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

Lew, that is the ideal answer. Except for the 5 grand :)
I was also wondering about the tubes for new pilings, why are they
better than an augered hole with a small 2×4 leveling form at the top
of each? Seems like they are smooth, and a auger hole is nice and rough
to lock the concrete to the soil better?

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

(1 sided Staircase)

Yes, I always wondered about that, but inspectors have come and gone
here for other things I built and never said a word

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

RM MS wrote:
Lew, that is the ideal answer. Except for the 5 grand :)
I was also wondering about the tubes for new pilings, why are they
better than an augered hole with a small 2×4 leveling form at the top
of each? Seems like they are smooth, and a auger hole is nice and rough
to lock the concrete to the soil better?


It's not a matter of locking the concrete in the soil. It's preventing
frost from heaving the pier. A smooth surface reduces this chance
provided the base is below the frost line.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

"RM MS" wrote:

Lew, that is the ideal answer. Except for the 5 grand :)
I was also wondering about the tubes for new pilings, why are they
better than an augered hole with a small 2×4 leveling form at the top
of each? Seems like they are smooth, and a auger hole is nice and
rough
to lock the concrete to the soil better?

Tubes used for above ground form, augered hole portion below grade is
a bonus.

When you are done, it will look better in the showergrin

Lew

Need help from an experienced builder/carpenter
 

Tubes:
". . . base is below the frost line. "
Makes sense to me: thanks, Jack.
I am leaning towards a crossbeam, maybe double 2"×12"s bolted thru
and sandwiching 2 corner posts and a new concrete footing or piling
trenched and leveled below them, and then, finally, extend the sandbox
to incorporate it all.