It's been a busy week for me so I haven't had time to check out the
options for another news reader, so I'm going to have to use Google
groups until then.


http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/



Rob

On Jun 25, 10:15*pm, "R.H." wrote:
It's been a busy week for me so I haven't had time to check out the
options for another news reader, so I'm going to have to use Google
groups until then.

http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/

Rob

1339. jig for drawing dovetails for furniture making.

1342. I'm going to say it's for expanding muffler pipes.
Karl

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 01:15:54 -0700 (PDT), R.H. wrote:

It's been a busy week for me so I haven't had time to check out the
options for another news reader, so I'm going to have to use Google
groups until then.

#1343: Torture implement used by dentists of a previous generation. :-)

I have no idea on any of them this week. :-(

--
Ted S.
fedya at hughes dot net
Now blogging at http://justacineast.blogspot.com

1339 - Dovetail marker

1342 - Pipe expander (for automotive exhaust pipe?)

1343 - Overly complicated bottle opener?

On Jun 26, 4:15*am, "R.H." wrote:
It's been a busy week for me so I haven't had time to check out the
options for another news reader, so I'm going to have to use Google
groups until then.

http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/

Rob

1342 is definitely a tailpipe or muffler pipe expander for auto
exhaust systems(DAMHIKT)

1339. Looks to be some type of dovetail marking gauge.
1342. Tailpipe expander.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Nahmie" wrote in message
...
On Jun 26, 4:15 am, "R.H." wrote:
It's been a busy week for me so I haven't had time to check out
the
options for another news reader, so I'm going to have to use
Google
groups until then.

http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/

Rob

1342 is definitely a tailpipe or muffler pipe expander for auto
exhaust systems(DAMHIKT)

Rob,

1338: I think it's an electrometer. Applying static electricity or high
DC voltage to the side terminals should cause the hanging object to be
attracted to one side or the other.

Northe

Hi,

Item 238 looks a bit like an electroscope, but from the photo, there is
a lot that can not be seen. The foremost question is," is there a gold
leaf attached to the central hanging thing (or should there be)? What
is electrical isolated from what and how well? Do the side things slide
and are the hollow, with lenses? If the answers are yes to these
questions, this could be an electroscope used to measure ionizing
radiation. I have seen electroscopes mostly like this but with only one
side assembly.

Thanks
Roger Haar

R.H. wrote:
It's been a busy week for me so I haven't had time to check out the
options for another news reader, so I'm going to have to use Google
groups until then.


http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/



Rob

In article ,
R.H. wrote:
It's been a busy week for me so I haven't had time to check out the
options for another news reader, so I'm going to have to use Google
groups until then.


http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/

1338: thermostat

1339: a tool for drawing a particular truncated triangle?

1340: 90-degree rolling pin

1341: Worlds poorest fondue set

1342: Used for spreading pipe

1343: Elevator shaft key. (yeah, I always guess that)
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

On Jun 26, 11:52 am, Roger Haar wrote:
Hi,

Item 238 looks a bit like an electroscope, but from the photo, there is
a lot that can not be seen. The foremost question is," is there a gold
leaf attached to the central hanging thing (or should there be)? What
is electrical isolated from what and how well? Do the side things slide
and are the hollow, with lenses? If the answers are yes to these
questions, this could be an electroscope used to measure ionizing
radiation. I have seen electroscopes mostly like this but with only one
side assembly.

Thanks
Roger Haar



I sent some questions about this device to the owner but haven't heard
back yet, I'll let everyone know when I get a reply.

Another tough set this week, I still don't know for sure what three of
them are. The answer page can be seen he

http://pzphotosans238.blogspot.com/


Rob

R.H. wrote:
On Jun 26, 11:52 am, Roger Haar wrote:
Hi,

Item 238 looks a bit like an electroscope, but from the photo, there is
a lot that can not be seen. The foremost question is," is there a gold
leaf attached to the central hanging thing (or should there be)? What
is electrical isolated from what and how well? Do the side things slide
and are the hollow, with lenses? If the answers are yes to these
questions, this could be an electroscope used to measure ionizing
radiation. I have seen electroscopes mostly like this but with only one
side assembly.

Thanks
Roger Haar



I sent some questions about this device to the owner but haven't heard
back yet, I'll let everyone know when I get a reply.

Another tough set this week, I still don't know for sure what three of
them are. The answer page can be seen he

http://pzphotosans238.blogspot.com/


Rob
1341: I didn't see the post saying it might be for religion, but it
looks like it could be for a bedside Communion service.

For simplicity and sanitation, a priest in the Catholic tradition might
take a wafer with a dried spot of wine to a hospital patient. For
sanitary considerations, Baptist deacons will carry trays of tiny
glasses of grape juice to the congregation.

This device could be for an elegant bedside Communion service. The top
cup would be for wafers. The little cups look protected in the rack and
somewhat spillproof when removed. Brass is unbreakable, easy to clean,
and unfriendly to pathogens.

"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
...
R.H. wrote:
On Jun 26, 11:52 am, Roger Haar wrote:
Hi,

Item 238 looks a bit like an electroscope, but from the photo, there is
a lot that can not be seen. The foremost question is," is there a gold
leaf attached to the central hanging thing (or should there be)? What
is electrical isolated from what and how well? Do the side things slide
and are the hollow, with lenses? If the answers are yes to these
questions, this could be an electroscope used to measure ionizing
radiation. I have seen electroscopes mostly like this but with only one
side assembly.

Thanks
Roger Haar



I sent some questions about this device to the owner but haven't heard
back yet, I'll let everyone know when I get a reply.

Another tough set this week, I still don't know for sure what three of
them are. The answer page can be seen he

http://pzphotosans238.blogspot.com/


Rob
1341: I didn't see the post saying it might be for religion,


I showed it to a few friends who are not connected with the newsgroups and a
couple of them said it looked religious in nature.


This device could be for an elegant bedside Communion service. The top
cup would be for wafers. The little cups look protected in the rack and
somewhat spillproof when removed. Brass is unbreakable, easy to clean,
and unfriendly to pathogens.


I couldn't find any like it on the web but this sounds like a reasonable
guess, I'll pass it on to the owner.


Rob

In article
,
"R.H." wrote:

I sent some questions about this device to the owner but haven't heard
back yet, I'll let everyone know when I get a reply.

Another tough set this week, I still don't know for sure what three of
them are. The answer page can be seen he

http://pzphotosans238.blogspot.com/


Rob

I was away out of town for the week, so didn't get a chance to guess
normally.

I wonder if 1343 might be some manner of steam whistle and/or relief
valve...possibly actuated by pulling a string tied onto the ring.

--
Andrew Erickson

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot
lose." -- Jim Elliot

The more I look at 1338, I wonder if it is indeed aa metal-foil
electroscope. Typically these have very thin pieces of metal foil
suspended from a central conductor. The center piece in this looks way too
thick to be an electroscope. Does the center piece move; can it pivot from
side to side? Are the two terminals on the sides adjustable? Is it
possible this is a tilt switch of some sort?

--
sm@ug dot ichorfang
at gmail dot com

Smaug Ichorfang wrote:
The more I look at 1338, I wonder if it is indeed aa metal-foil
electroscope. Typically these have very thin pieces of metal foil
suspended from a central conductor. The center piece in this looks way too
thick to be an electroscope. Does the center piece move; can it pivot from
side to side? Are the two terminals on the sides adjustable? Is it
possible this is a tilt switch of some sort?


(I hope this isn't a double post. There's server trouble.)

How about a line frequency monitor from a time when automated equipment
to keep a generator on frequency was not reliable.

The power-company supervisor keeps one of these near his desk or bed.
With its exposed terminals, it would probably be above head level.

The center element has the mass, length, and stiffness to resonate at
the desired frequency. It's connected to rectified voltage. The side
elements are connected to the two sides of the AC line. Sliding them in
or out adjusts the volume of the hum. For safety, maybe the knobs are
varnished wood and not metal.

If the device stops humming, the supervisor phones the power station to
adjust the generator's speed.

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:29:33 -0400, E Z Peaces
wrote:

Smaug Ichorfang wrote:
The more I look at 1338, I wonder if it is indeed aa metal-foil
electroscope. Typically these have very thin pieces of metal foil
suspended from a central conductor. The center piece in this looks way too
thick to be an electroscope. Does the center piece move; can it pivot from
side to side? Are the two terminals on the sides adjustable? Is it
possible this is a tilt switch of some sort?



How about a line frequency monitor from a time when automated equipment
to keep a generator on frequency was not reliable.

SNIP

Naw. Prior to the 40's, flyball governors were used to do that.

Brian Lawson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:29:33 -0400, E Z Peaces
wrote:

Smaug Ichorfang wrote:
The more I look at 1338, I wonder if it is indeed aa metal-foil
electroscope. Typically these have very thin pieces of metal foil
suspended from a central conductor. The center piece in this looks way too
thick to be an electroscope. Does the center piece move; can it pivot from
side to side? Are the two terminals on the sides adjustable? Is it
possible this is a tilt switch of some sort?


How about a line frequency monitor from a time when automated equipment
to keep a generator on frequency was not reliable.

SNIP

Naw. Prior to the 40's, flyball governors were used to do that.


A flyball governor can keep a motor running at a nearly constant speed,
but synchronous clocks, invented in 1916, require precise speed control
If the generator is 1% slow (59.4 Hz), clocks will lose about 15 minutes
a day.

Doesn't that point to the need for a tuning fork to monitor the
governor? A meter could provide the necessary information, but a man
might notice the absence of a hum before he would happen to look at the
meter.

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:17:24 -0400, E Z Peaces
wrote:

Brian Lawson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:29:33 -0400, E Z Peaces
wrote:

Smaug Ichorfang wrote:
The more I look at 1338, I wonder if it is indeed aa metal-foil
electroscope. Typically these have very thin pieces of metal foil
suspended from a central conductor. The center piece in this looks way too
thick to be an electroscope. Does the center piece move; can it pivot from
side to side? Are the two terminals on the sides adjustable? Is it
possible this is a tilt switch of some sort?


How about a line frequency monitor from a time when automated equipment
to keep a generator on frequency was not reliable.

SNIP

Naw. Prior to the 40's, flyball governors were used to do that.


A flyball governor can keep a motor running at a nearly constant speed,
but synchronous clocks, invented in 1916, require precise speed control
If the generator is 1% slow (59.4 Hz), clocks will lose about 15 minutes
a day.

Doesn't that point to the need for a tuning fork to monitor the
governor? A meter could provide the necessary information, but a man
might notice the absence of a hum before he would happen to look at the
meter.


All I know is what I see. 25 cycle power, using a BIIIIIIIGG brake to
govern the speed of the generator. Brake is operated by fly-ball
governor. Whether or not synchronous clocks were "invented" in 1916,
they sure were not in regular use is common practice. Heck, I still
do have a pendulum clock that keeps good time.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

Brian Lawson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:17:24 -0400, E Z Peaces
wrote:

Brian Lawson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:29:33 -0400, E Z Peaces
wrote:

Smaug Ichorfang wrote:
The more I look at 1338, I wonder if it is indeed aa metal-foil
electroscope. Typically these have very thin pieces of metal foil
suspended from a central conductor. The center piece in this looks way too
thick to be an electroscope. Does the center piece move; can it pivot from
side to side? Are the two terminals on the sides adjustable? Is it
possible this is a tilt switch of some sort?

How about a line frequency monitor from a time when automated equipment
to keep a generator on frequency was not reliable.

SNIP

Naw. Prior to the 40's, flyball governors were used to do that.

A flyball governor can keep a motor running at a nearly constant speed,
but synchronous clocks, invented in 1916, require precise speed control
If the generator is 1% slow (59.4 Hz), clocks will lose about 15 minutes
a day.

Doesn't that point to the need for a tuning fork to monitor the
governor? A meter could provide the necessary information, but a man
might notice the absence of a hum before he would happen to look at the
meter.


All I know is what I see. 25 cycle power, using a BIIIIIIIGG brake to
govern the speed of the generator. Brake is operated by fly-ball
governor. Whether or not synchronous clocks were "invented" in 1916,
they sure were not in regular use is common practice. Heck, I still
do have a pendulum clock that keeps good time.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

Wouldn't a power company regulate with a throttle and let the electrical
load serve as the brake?

The balls of a fly-ball governor move out to reduce the throttle.
Farther out, centrifugal force is greater. Without compensation such as
springs, the generator would spin slower with lighter loads. How are
you going to design compensation that will keep the speed within .006%
(necessary to keep a clock within 5 seconds a day), under all loads and
in all temperatures?

The lack of precise speed control would explain why from 1888 to 1916,
an electric clock was a self-winding pendulum clock. By 1919,
synchronous electric clocks had taken over. I think the speed control
of power companies must have become more precise.

I think consumer synchronous clocks weren't sold until 1931, so the 1919
revolution must have been in business clocks. Clocks told employees and
customers when to come and go. They established when someone was due at
a meeting. If the electric company could keep everybody's clock on
time, that would have been popular for businesses. It would have been a
reason for those without electricity to get electricity.

E Z Peaces wrote:
Brian Lawson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:17:24 -0400, E Z Peaces

wrote:

Brian Lawson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:29:33 -0400, E Z Peaces
wrote:

Smaug Ichorfang wrote:
The more I look at 1338, I wonder if it is indeed aa metal-foil
electroscope. Typically these have very thin pieces of metal
foil suspended from a central conductor. The center piece in
this looks way too thick to be an electroscope. Does the
center
piece move; can it pivot from side to side? Are the two
terminals on the sides adjustable? Is it possible this is a
tilt switch of some sort?

How about a line frequency monitor from a time when automated
equipment to keep a generator on frequency was not reliable.

SNIP

Naw. Prior to the 40's, flyball governors were used to do that.

A flyball governor can keep a motor running at a nearly constant
speed, but synchronous clocks, invented in 1916, require precise
speed control If the generator is 1% slow (59.4 Hz), clocks will
lose about 15 minutes a day.

Doesn't that point to the need for a tuning fork to monitor the
governor? A meter could provide the necessary information, but a
man might notice the absence of a hum before he would happen to
look at the meter.


All I know is what I see. 25 cycle power, using a BIIIIIIIGG brake
to govern the speed of the generator. Brake is operated by
fly-ball
governor. Whether or not synchronous clocks were "invented" in
1916,
they sure were not in regular use is common practice. Heck, I
still
do have a pendulum clock that keeps good time.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

Wouldn't a power company regulate with a throttle and let the
electrical
load serve as the brake?

The balls of a fly-ball governor move out to reduce the throttle.
Farther out, centrifugal force is greater. Without compensation
such
as
springs, the generator would spin slower with lighter loads. How
are
you going to design compensation that will keep the speed within
.006%
(necessary to keep a clock within 5 seconds a day), under all loads
and
in all temperatures?

He wouldn't design one, he'd buy one from Telechron, which in 1918
patented a governor system specifically for that purpose.

The lack of precise speed control would explain why from 1888 to
1916,
an electric clock was a self-winding pendulum clock. By 1919,
synchronous electric clocks had taken over.

I'd like to see a source to support that assertion.

I think the speed control
of power companies must have become more precise.

Not until a device to allow it became available in 1918.

I think consumer synchronous clocks weren't sold until 1931, so the
1919
revolution must have been in business clocks. Clocks told employees
and
customers when to come and go. They established when someone was
due
at
a meeting. If the electric company could keep everybody's clock on
time, that would have been popular for businesses. It would have
been a
reason for those without electricity to get electricity.

I think you've missed the key advantage of synchronous clocks--with
synchronous clocks all the clocks on a given power grid keep the same
time. Even if they're inaccurate they're all inaccurate by the same
amount.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Brian Lawson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:17:24 -0400, E Z Peaces
wrote:

Brian Lawson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:29:33 -0400, E Z Peaces
wrote:

Smaug Ichorfang wrote:
The more I look at 1338, I wonder if it is indeed aa metal-foil
electroscope. Typically these have very thin pieces of metal foil
suspended from a central conductor. The center piece in this looks
way too thick to be an electroscope. Does the center piece move;
can it pivot from side to side? Are the two terminals on the sides
adjustable? Is it possible this is a tilt switch of some sort?


How about a line frequency monitor from a time when automated
equipment to keep a generator on frequency was not reliable.

SNIP

Naw. Prior to the 40's, flyball governors were used to do that.


A flyball governor can keep a motor running at a nearly constant speed,
but synchronous clocks, invented in 1916, require precise speed control
If the generator is 1% slow (59.4 Hz), clocks will lose about 15 minutes
a day.

Doesn't that point to the need for a tuning fork to monitor the
governor? A meter could provide the necessary information, but a man
might notice the absence of a hum before he would happen to look at the
meter.

The way to regulate it accurately is to drive a clock with the current and
compare the time of the clock to an accurate time source (like the sun).

For the clock problem, the short term frequency is not as important as the
long term average frequency. So when the clock is running behind, you just
speed up the system a bit until it catches up. The fact that the frequency
is only accurate to 5% is not important if you can keep the long term
average accurate which is easy enough to do just by driving a synchronous
clock from the power.

I was once told that the above is what power companies actually did (at
some point in history). Don't have a clue if it's true however.

--
Curt Welch http://CurtWelch.Com/
http://NewsReader.Com/

J. Clarke wrote:
E Z Peaces wrote:
Brian Lawson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:17:24 -0400, E Z Peaces

wrote:

Brian Lawson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:29:33 -0400, E Z Peaces
wrote:

Smaug Ichorfang wrote:
The more I look at 1338, I wonder if it is indeed aa metal-foil
electroscope. Typically these have very thin pieces of metal
foil suspended from a central conductor. The center piece in
this looks way too thick to be an electroscope. Does the
center
piece move; can it pivot from side to side? Are the two
terminals on the sides adjustable? Is it possible this is a
tilt switch of some sort?

How about a line frequency monitor from a time when automated
equipment to keep a generator on frequency was not reliable.

SNIP

Naw. Prior to the 40's, flyball governors were used to do that.
A flyball governor can keep a motor running at a nearly constant
speed, but synchronous clocks, invented in 1916, require precise
speed control If the generator is 1% slow (59.4 Hz), clocks will
lose about 15 minutes a day.

Doesn't that point to the need for a tuning fork to monitor the
governor? A meter could provide the necessary information, but a
man might notice the absence of a hum before he would happen to
look at the meter.

All I know is what I see. 25 cycle power, using a BIIIIIIIGG brake
to govern the speed of the generator. Brake is operated by
fly-ball
governor. Whether or not synchronous clocks were "invented" in
1916,
they sure were not in regular use is common practice. Heck, I
still
do have a pendulum clock that keeps good time.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
Wouldn't a power company regulate with a throttle and let the
electrical
load serve as the brake?

The balls of a fly-ball governor move out to reduce the throttle.
Farther out, centrifugal force is greater. Without compensation
such
as
springs, the generator would spin slower with lighter loads. How
are
you going to design compensation that will keep the speed within
.006%
(necessary to keep a clock within 5 seconds a day), under all loads
and
in all temperatures?

He wouldn't design one, he'd buy one from Telechron, which in 1918
patented a governor system specifically for that purpose.

Can you tell me more about the patent? The earliest Telechron governor
patents I know were originally filed by Henry Warren January 8, 1929.
1,963,727 had 5 pages of drawings and 11,000 words. 1,953,750 had 5
pages of drawings and 13,700 words. The applications were renewed
several times until patents were granted in 1934.

That's also the first reference I've found to Telechron. It used to be
the Warren Clock Company.

In 1916, Warren installed a manual system at Boston Edison. The
pendulum of a mechanical clock would be adjusted twice a day, according
to Naval Observatory time. An electric clock sat beside the mechanical
one. If it got ahead of the mechanical clock, the generator would be
slowed until the clocks were even. If the electric clock was behind,
the generator would be sped up.

I imagine the engineer monitoring the clocks would want an electric
"tuning fork" so he would be warned the moment the generator frequency
was more than a tiny bit off.



The lack of precise speed control would explain why from 1888 to
1916,
an electric clock was a self-winding pendulum clock. By 1919,
synchronous electric clocks had taken over.

I'd like to see a source to support that assertion.

The National Clock and Watch Museum says so.

http://www.nawcc.org/museum/nwcm/gal...c/electric.htm

I think the speed control
of power companies must have become more precise.

Not until a device to allow it became available in 1918.

I think consumer synchronous clocks weren't sold until 1931, so the
1919
revolution must have been in business clocks. Clocks told employees
and
customers when to come and go. They established when someone was
due
at
a meeting. If the electric company could keep everybody's clock on
time, that would have been popular for businesses. It would have
been a
reason for those without electricity to get electricity.

I think you've missed the key advantage of synchronous clocks--with
synchronous clocks all the clocks on a given power grid keep the same
time. Even if they're inaccurate they're all inaccurate by the same
amount.

If Henry Warren had believed that, he wouldn't have invented his master
clock system.

In 1975, Ketchikan's power wasn't connected to any grid, so its
frequency came from equipment at the generator. Our shop had an
expensive grandfather clock, which I often checked against the Naval
Observatory.

I don't remember seeing an electric clock. If all of us had depended on
electric clocks, we could have missed boats, planes, and TV programs.
If some had depended on electric clocks, they would have been early for
work one day and late the next. That's what Warren eliminated.

"Smaug Ichorfang" wrote in message
...
The more I look at 1338, I wonder if it is indeed aa metal-foil
electroscope. Typically these have very thin pieces of metal foil
suspended from a central conductor. The center piece in this looks way
too
thick to be an electroscope. Does the center piece move; can it pivot
from
side to side? Are the two terminals on the sides adjustable? Is it
possible this is a tilt switch of some sort?


I sent some similar questions to the guy who emailed the photo to me, but
never got a reply. I think that the device belongs to a friend of his and
it's not available for him to take a closer look.


Rob

I wonder if 1343 might be some manner of steam whistle and/or relief
valve...possibly actuated by pulling a string tied onto the ring.


The owner got this device a long time ago and has forgotten exactly where it
came from, he is a licensed ammunition collector so it may have been in a
box of things given to him at one stage. He tried blowing through it but it
didn't make any noise.

I sent an email to a steam whistle collector to get his opinion but haven't
heard back yet. I'll let you know if he confirms this guess.


Rob

Curt Welch wrote:
Brian Lawson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:17:24 -0400, E Z Peaces
wrote:

Brian Lawson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:29:33 -0400, E Z Peaces
wrote:

Smaug Ichorfang wrote:
The more I look at 1338, I wonder if it is indeed aa metal-foil
electroscope. Typically these have very thin pieces of metal foil
suspended from a central conductor. The center piece in this looks
way too thick to be an electroscope. Does the center piece move;
can it pivot from side to side? Are the two terminals on the sides
adjustable? Is it possible this is a tilt switch of some sort?

How about a line frequency monitor from a time when automated
equipment to keep a generator on frequency was not reliable.

SNIP

Naw. Prior to the 40's, flyball governors were used to do that.

A flyball governor can keep a motor running at a nearly constant speed,
but synchronous clocks, invented in 1916, require precise speed control
If the generator is 1% slow (59.4 Hz), clocks will lose about 15 minutes
a day.

Doesn't that point to the need for a tuning fork to monitor the
governor? A meter could provide the necessary information, but a man
might notice the absence of a hum before he would happen to look at the
meter.

The way to regulate it accurately is to drive a clock with the current and
compare the time of the clock to an accurate time source (like the sun).

For the clock problem, the short term frequency is not as important as the
long term average frequency. So when the clock is running behind, you just
speed up the system a bit until it catches up. The fact that the frequency
is only accurate to 5% is not important if you can keep the long term
average accurate which is easy enough to do just by driving a synchronous
clock from the power.

I was once told that the above is what power companies actually did (at
some point in history). Don't have a clue if it's true however.

Here's Henry Warren's patent showing the state of the art in the early
1920s: 1502494.

The device would count up the difference in rotations between a pendulum
clock mechanism and a synchronous electric clock motor. I think it
registered in seconds. The patent shows the generator engine throttled
by a flywheel governor in parallel with a manual valve. The governor
was intended to keep the speed nearly constant, and the attendant would
make adjustments with the manual valve.

Here's a Warren patent showing the state of the art in 1916: 1283431.

He says a large power station normally kept the frequency between 59 and
61 cycles, and a larger deviation shouldn't last more than 20 seconds.

I think it would take an audio signal(in a quiet office in a brick
station) to ensure such a quick response. For example, the price of my
neighbor's favorite stock scrolls across the screen every few minutes,
but he misses it almost every time because he's not paying attention
during the few seconds it's visible. If the sound stopped, that would
catch his attention immediately.

The attendant would need an indicator to adjust the valve when the clock
device showed the generator had lost or gained time. He couldn't just
open the valve a quarter of a turn, for example, because the engine's
response would depend on the load on the generator. Perhaps tuning by
ear, listening to the hum of a mechanical resonator, was more reliable
than a visual frequency indicator.

E Z Peaces wrote:
Curt Welch wrote:
Brian Lawson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:17:24 -0400, E Z Peaces
wrote:

Brian Lawson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:29:33 -0400, E Z Peaces
wrote:

Smaug Ichorfang wrote:
The more I look at 1338, I wonder if it is indeed aa
metal-foil
electroscope. Typically these have very thin pieces of metal
foil suspended from a central conductor. The center piece in
this looks way too thick to be an electroscope. Does the
center piece move; can it pivot from side to side? Are the
two
terminals on the sides adjustable? Is it possible this is a
tilt switch of some sort?

How about a line frequency monitor from a time when automated
equipment to keep a generator on frequency was not reliable.

SNIP

Naw. Prior to the 40's, flyball governors were used to do that.

A flyball governor can keep a motor running at a nearly constant
speed, but synchronous clocks, invented in 1916, require precise
speed control If the generator is 1% slow (59.4 Hz), clocks will
lose about 15 minutes a day.

Doesn't that point to the need for a tuning fork to monitor the
governor? A meter could provide the necessary information, but a
man might notice the absence of a hum before he would happen to
look at the meter.

The way to regulate it accurately is to drive a clock with the
current and compare the time of the clock to an accurate time
source
(like the sun).

For the clock problem, the short term frequency is not as important
as the long term average frequency. So when the clock is running
behind, you just speed up the system a bit until it catches up.
The
fact that the frequency is only accurate to 5% is not important if
you can keep the long term average accurate which is easy enough to
do just by driving a synchronous clock from the power.

I was once told that the above is what power companies actually did
(at some point in history). Don't have a clue if it's true
however.

Here's Henry Warren's patent showing the state of the art in the
early
1920s: 1502494.

The device would count up the difference in rotations between a
pendulum clock mechanism and a synchronous electric clock motor. I
think it registered in seconds. The patent shows the generator
engine throttled by a flywheel governor in parallel with a manual
valve. The governor was intended to keep the speed nearly constant,
and the attendant would make adjustments with the manual valve.

Here's a Warren patent showing the state of the art in 1916:
1283431.

He says a large power station normally kept the frequency between 59
and 61 cycles, and a larger deviation shouldn't last more than 20
seconds.

I think it would take an audio signal(in a quiet office in a brick
station) to ensure such a quick response. For example, the price of
my neighbor's favorite stock scrolls across the screen every few
minutes, but he misses it almost every time because he's not paying
attention during the few seconds it's visible. If the sound
stopped,
that would catch his attention immediately.

The attendant would need an indicator to adjust the valve when the
clock device showed the generator had lost or gained time. He
couldn't just open the valve a quarter of a turn, for example,
because the engine's response would depend on the load on the
generator. Perhaps tuning by ear, listening to the hum of a
mechanical resonator, was more reliable than a visual frequency
indicator.

How about just using a mechanical governor?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

I wonder if 1343 might be some manner of steam whistle and/or relief
valve...possibly actuated by pulling a string tied onto the ring.


Someone sent in this answer for number 1343:

"This is a rifle barrel inspection device; the 45 degree mirror is missing
from in the aperture in the side of the tube. I have one identical to this.
I was told that all soldiers were issued one as part of their kit."

Similar to patent number 7180587:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=dvp...BAJ&dq=7180587


As I mentioned previously, the owner is an ammunition collector, so it makes
sense that he would have one of these devices.


Rob