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Silly Question about Jigs - --
"PM6564" wrote in
.com: "CW" wrote in message news:pymDb.399643$275.1266973@attbi_s53... What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was jig (as used as an ethnic slur) It's root word is jigaboo. Kind of like yank and yankee. I suggest you check your facts on this one. There is nothing in Websters' Unabridged to suggest this. The ethnic slang is a missappropriation of the word jig. I suppose if racist started calling dark skinned people ding- dongs that hostess should rename their product. -- Mule-Tracks Two for the board and one for the nail. |
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Silly Question about Jigs - --
don't forget me: the supposed "village idiot".
dave Larry Blanchard wrote: In article , says... I don't use the phrase "Call a spade a spade" nor would I ever use the word "niggardly" even though they both have legitimate meanings. I suppose Nigeria should change its name as well :-). C'mon. There's no relationship between "niggardly" and the dreaded "n" word, which is a corruption of "negro" which is derived from "negroid". And "negroid" has no more actual negative meaning than "caucasion"(sp?) or "oriental". Reminds me of the progression from "moron/idiot" to "feeble minded" to "retarded" to "mentally deficient" to "differently abled". They all develop negative connotations over time and are replaced with a new term - usually a longer one. Aren't we a strange species? |
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Quite true and I would most appreciate it if you would clip to show who
actually wrote this. "Tom" wrote in message . 4... "PM6564" wrote in .com: "CW" wrote in message news:pymDb.399643$275.1266973@attbi_s53... What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was jig (as used as an ethnic slur) It's root word is jigaboo. Kind of like yank and yankee. I suggest you check your facts on this one. There is nothing in Websters' Unabridged to suggest this. The ethnic slang is a missappropriation of the word jig. I suppose if racist started calling dark skinned people ding- dongs that hostess should rename their product. -- Mule-Tracks Two for the board and one for the nail. |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message .com...
PM6564 wrote: What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was jig (as used as an ethnic slur) It's root word is jigaboo. Kind of like yank and yankee. Main Entry: 1jig snip From http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary Main Entry: (3)jig Function: noun Etymology: short for jigaboo black person Date: 1927 |
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Tom wrote in message .4...
snip I suggest you check your facts on this one. There is nothing in Websters' Unabridged to suggest this. The ethnic slang is a missappropriation of the word jig. I suppose if racist started calling dark skinned people ding- dongs that hostess should rename their product. Both Webster's and the OED (much more helpful in this as in most things) attribute the use of either jig or jigaboo as a derogatory racial slang word to the early half of the 20th century. I used the Webster's online version. It seems obvious to me that the term came from 19th/20th century white preoccupation with black dancing forms, "jig" being a common word for certain dance forms. I suspect that quickly, owing to broader cultural forces, the term took on a derogatory tone. The ethnic slang is not a "misappropriation", at least not in the way that historical linguists view semantics: that's precisely how many words have acquired their meanings--in just the way you imagine unimaginable ("ding-dong"). Negro and gay immediately come to mind. If "ding-dong" were to become a slur I would bet money that Hostess would rename. I sympathize if you think that the names for foods (or whatever) should be straightforward, but that's not how words have, historically, acquired meaning. For food specifically, check out Louisville author Martha Barnette's book, "Ladyfingers and Nun's Tummies" for an interesting look at cuisine etymologies. I'm careful to note that you say "should", which indicates your favor of prescriptive definitions--to which I too am partial--but at some point you have to allow that many if not most words acquire meanings indepent of prescriptive reasoning. H. |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
"Tom" wrote in message . 4... "PM6564" wrote in .com: "CW" wrote in message news:pymDb.399643$275.1266973@attbi_s53... What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was jig (as used as an ethnic slur) It's root word is jigaboo. Kind of like yank and yankee. I suggest you check your facts on this one. There is nothing in Websters' Unabridged to suggest this. The ethnic slang is a missappropriation of the word jig. I suppose if racist started calling dark skinned people ding- dongs that hostess should rename their product. -- Mule-Tracks Two for the board and one for the nail. As noted previously: From http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary Main Entry: (3)jig Function: noun Etymology: short for jigaboo black person Date: 1927 |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
wrote in message ... Jig: A trolling bait, consisting of a bright spoon and a hook attached fits, eh? Nope, no troll involved. Tried helping out and the dip**** brigade showed up in force. |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
On 13 Dec 2003, CW spake unto rec.woodworking:
I've lived in the heart of Red-neckville for twenty years and never heard the term. As it is a long standing legitimate term with no racist overtones, I can only guess that it is one of those things that people think long and hard to find a way to be offended by it. I was at the local Agway last Sunday, and noticed that the birdseed used in thistle feeders is now known as Nyjer seed. Used to be Niger seed. I doubt that the complaints came from the chickadees. The titmice have their own issues to deal with. |
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Larry Blanchard wrote in message ...
In article , says... I don't use the phrase "Call a spade a spade" nor would I ever use the word "niggardly" even though they both have legitimate meanings. C'mon. There's no relationship between "niggardly" and the dreaded "n" word, which is a corruption of "negro" which is derived from "negroid". And "negroid" has no more actual negative meaning than "caucasion"(sp?) or "oriental". Maybe not. Just not a word I would feel comfortble using in conversation (for several reasons - one of which is the racial conotation). BTW it's "asian" not "oriental" :-) Reminds me of the progression from "moron/idiot" to "feeble minded" to "retarded" to "mentally deficient" to "differently abled". They all develop negative connotations over time and are replaced with a new term - usually a longer one. And so it goes, as each new term is applied it developes some type of negative connotation over time, and thus must be replaced with a new term. Some may be offended by "handicapped" but personally I find "handicapable" even worse because it is sooo condescending. Aren't we a strange species? Yes. But we all knew that before this thread was started, right? -Chris |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
Chris wrote:
Maybe not. Just not a word I would feel comfortble using in conversation (for several reasons - one of which is the racial conotation). BTW it's "asian" not "oriental" :-) I've heard this the last few years but I'll be damned if I can figure where it came from. I was born in Japan almost 50 years ago and back then Japan was part of the Orient. In any case, I never thought "Oriental" was a degoatory phrase but merely an acknowledgement of origin. -- Mortimer Schnerd, RN http://www.mortimerschnerd.com |
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"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" writes:
Chris wrote: Maybe not. Just not a word I would feel comfortble using in conversation (for several reasons - one of which is the racial conotation). BTW it's "asian" not "oriental" :-) I've heard this the last few years but I'll be damned if I can figure where it came from. I was born in Japan almost 50 years ago and back then Japan was part of the Orient. In any case, I never thought "Oriental" was a degoatory phrase but merely an acknowledgement of origin. You must consider that given the original meaning of "Orient" as "here the sun rises" in contrast to "Occident" (where it sets) from a japanese point of view America would be "the Orient" while Asia would be the Occident.... -- Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869 Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23 |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
Tom Watson wrote in message ws.com...
snip BTW: The guy who mentioned the differentiation in nomenclature - he's called an "asshole". Oh, man, you gotta watch that--some people find that word offensive. Trying not to laugh, H |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
was part of the Orient. In any case, I never thought "Oriental" was a degoatory phrase but merely an acknowledgement of origin. It's one of the dumber ones IMHO. In all the languages I know anything about, the word (identical, or very similiar) "oriental" just means "eastern." I forget the etymology here. I think it's from Latin. "From the direction of the sunrise" or something like that. I'll leave it for someone else to go look it up. I'm too lazy ATM. -- Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/ |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
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Silly Question about Jigs - --
The definition has been given in this thread and that was not it.
"golfmyball" wrote in message m... My guess is that a jig and a fixture are one and the same except a jig is a one time thing and a fixture is a jig that is used all the time, hench a fixture in the shop. |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
"CW" wrote in message news:x07Eb.573614$HS4.4311484@attbi_s01...
The definition has been given in this thread and that was not it. "golfmyball" wrote in message m... My guess is that a jig and a fixture are one and the same except a jig is a one time thing and a fixture is a jig that is used all the time, hench a fixture in the shop. Oh ya? Why not? |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
Are you really that stupid? No need to reply, the answer is obvious.
"golfmyball" wrote in message om... "CW" wrote in message news:x07Eb.573614$HS4.4311484@attbi_s01... The definition has been given in this thread and that was not it. "golfmyball" wrote in message m... My guess is that a jig and a fixture are one and the same except a jig is a one time thing and a fixture is a jig that is used all the time, hench a fixture in the shop. Oh ya? Why not? |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
"golfmyball" wrote in message om... "CW" wrote in message news:x07Eb.573614$HS4.4311484@attbi_s01... The definition has been given in this thread and that was not it. "golfmyball" wrote in message m... My guess is that a jig and a fixture are one and the same except a jig is a one time thing and a fixture is a jig that is used all the time, hench a fixture in the shop. Oh ya? Why not? Don't bother. CW's a tool. |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
"CW" wrote in message news:uiHEb.402082$Dw6.1250007@attbi_s02...
Are you really that stupid? No need to reply, the answer is obvious. "golfmyball" wrote in message om... "CW" wrote in message news:x07Eb.573614$HS4.4311484@attbi_s01... The definition has been given in this thread and that was not it. "golfmyball" wrote in message m... My guess is that a jig and a fixture are one and the same except a jig is a one time thing and a fixture is a jig that is used all the time, hench a fixture in the shop. Oh ya? Why not? Then why reply? The definition given in this thread is nebulous, contradictory and uncertain at best, **** head. |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
No, no, this really is a good change, as Juergen tried to point out.
The basis for the change is geographic, not political: it's not a "political correctness" issue in other words. Orient is Latin for the present active participle of orior ("to rise"), which came to mean even in Roman times "The East". That geographic definition worked well for as long as Westerners communicated pretty much only with themselves. If we wish to include the East in our global communications now, as we do, then we can't really refer to Asians with a word meaning "Easterners"--which doesn't make sense to them. Unless, of course, you don't mind being referred to as a South American by Canadians.... H. Silvan wrote in message ... Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote: was part of the Orient. In any case, I never thought "Oriental" was a degoatory phrase but merely an acknowledgement of origin. It's one of the dumber ones IMHO. In all the languages I know anything about, the word (identical, or very similiar) "oriental" just means "eastern." I forget the etymology here. I think it's from Latin. "From the direction of the sunrise" or something like that. I'll leave it for someone else to go look it up. I'm too lazy ATM. |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
Wed, Dec 17, 2003, 8:00am (EST-3) (Chris)
claims: snip BTW it's "asian" not "oriental" snip Then, how come I see the signs that say Oriental resturaunt and Oriental food store? JOAT Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance. - Unknown Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT Web Page Update 19 Dec 2003. Some tunes I like. http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/ |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
Hey JofT,
This is a good example of a change that is *not* owing to political correctness, so the perceived "victims" of this usage are not personally offended and usually won't rake you over the coals for it. They leave that to the rich guilty pampered northern white chicks (oops, did I say something wrong?). It's just a geocentric term. Asians who want to make a buck here could give a ****... H. (T.) wrote in message ... Wed, Dec 17, 2003, 8:00am (EST-3) (Chris) claims: snip BTW it's "asian" not "oriental" snip Then, how come I see the signs that say Oriental resturaunt and Oriental food store? JOAT Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance. - Unknown Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT Web Page Update 19 Dec 2003. Some tunes I like. http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/ |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
T. wrote:
Then, how come I see the signs that say Oriental resturaunt and Oriental food store? Because you live in North Cackalacky. -- Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/ |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
In article ,
PM6564 wrote: ... What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was jig (as used as an ethnic slur) The word in question was jig (as used in shop/tool work.) It's root word is jigaboo. Kind of like yank and yankee. According to Unabridged Random House Dictionary it is a variation of gauge. The OED gives a bunch of different meanings - and here is one of the examples of the use in shop work: "e. 1894 W. L. LINEHAM Text-bk. Mech. Engin. vi. 274 Jigs are an extension of the template principle. Instead of thin plates, castings of an inch or so in thickness are used, supplied with holes where needed, the object being to guide the drill to its proper place on the work without the necessity of lining-out. 1903 W. H. VAN DERVOORT Mod. Machine Shop Tools xxvii. 410 Jigs are manufacturing tools of, as a rule, high first cost and their economy depends very largely on the number of pieces to be drilled. 1912 R. W. A. BREWER Motor Car Construction ii. 13 Modern competition has made jig work absolutely essential. 1942 B. A. SHIELDS Princ. Flight iii. 91 The airplane fuselage is built in a jig. 1947 BRYANT & DICKINSON Jigs & Fixtures for Mass Production i. 4 In the machine shop, a jig is usually an appliance which guides a cutting tool... In the automotive industry, a jig is a work-holding device wherein all positions for assembly or fabrication operations are prelocated. 1967 M. CHANDLER Ceramics in Mod. World iv. 127 (caption) Assembling a large post insulator in a jig." I just find it unbelieveable that all of those machine shop authors were making ethnic slurs in their writing. -- --henry schaffer |
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 00:20:07 +0000 (UTC), (Henry E
Schaffer) wrote: I just find it unbelieveable that all of those machine shop authors were making ethnic slurs in their writing. Of course you realize that we are going to have to change the title and lyrics of "White Christmas". Of course, when you remember that it was written by a guy named Irving Berlin, you realize that there was already an inherent irony. Regards, Tom Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
"Henry E Schaffer" wrote in message ... In article , PM6564 wrote: ... What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was jig (as used as an ethnic slur) The word in question was jig (as used in shop/tool work.) Here's a newsflash - some words have more than one meaning. If you would bother to look at the entire thread before opening your pie hole, you would see what we were talking about. Try not to be a dip **** in the future. Thanks, The Management. |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
In article ,
PM6564 wrote: "Henry E Schaffer" wrote in message ... In article , PM6564 wrote: ... What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was jig (as used as an ethnic slur) The word in question was jig (as used in shop/tool work.) Here's a newsflash - some words have more than one meaning. Right. If you would bother to look at the entire thread before opening your pie hole, you would see what we were talking about. We were talking about jigs vs. fixtures as used in shop (woodworking) work. (Go back and review the thread - it was about whether the woodworking use of the word should be avoided because of an alternate racist meaning.) Furthermore, if you would bother to read the post to which you were responding, you would see that I was responding to a particular sentence in a particular post (and even gave the origin.) Try not to be a dip **** in the future. I'll try to avoid following your example. -- --henry schaffer |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
In article , Tom Watson wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 00:20:07 +0000 (UTC), (Henry E Schaffer) wrote: I just find it unbelieveable that all of those machine shop authors were making ethnic slurs in their writing. Of course you realize that we are going to have to change the title and lyrics of "White Christmas". FWIW, I used to work with a dark-skinned guy who sometimes sang "I'm dreaming of an African-American Christmas...". -- Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America? |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
"Henry E Schaffer" wrote in message ... In article , PM6564 wrote: "Henry E Schaffer" wrote in message ... In article , PM6564 wrote: ... What do you think the root of the word is? The word in question was jig (as used as an ethnic slur) The word in question was jig (as used in shop/tool work.) Here's a newsflash - some words have more than one meaning. Right. If you would bother to look at the entire thread before opening your pie hole, you would see what we were talking about. We were talking about jigs vs. fixtures as used in shop (woodworking) work. (Go back and review the thread - it was about whether the woodworking use of the word should be avoided because of an alternate racist meaning.) As I said before, If you would bother to read the entire thread before opening your pie hole, you would see that the discussion was about the use of jig as derived from jigaboo. To use my previous example: calling someone a yank (american) . Yank is shortened from yankee. It has nothing to do with the definition of yank used in pulling. The person in question (CW) said that they had never heard of the word "jig" used as an ethnic slur. That was when I posted the definition for "jigaboo" from which jig is derived. Furthermore, if you would bother to read the post to which you were responding, you would see that I was responding to a particular sentence in a particular post (and even gave the origin.) Try not to be a dip **** in the future. I'll try to avoid following your example. BWAHAHAHA - I see what you did -- you turned that around! You are soooo clever. However, if you were to follow my example, you would only post about things that you knew about and provide backup for that posting. You however, can't seem to grasp that concept and use a faulty argument in your posting; i.e. "I just find it unbelieveable that all of those machine shop authors were making ethnic slurs in their writing." You fail to understand that certain words have multiple meanings. such as "nip" (Nip being derived from Nippon, the americanization of the pronunciation of Japan) as a racial slur and as "a small drink" or "a small cut" among others.. With your line of logic, I certainly hope that the .edu in your address owes itself to you getting an email address becuase you sweep the floors or clean toilets and not becuase you try and educate anybody. |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
In article ,
PM6564 wrote: ... However, if you were to follow my example, you would only post about things that you knew about and provide backup for that posting. I did provide backup (or don't you know what the OED is?) You however, can't seem to grasp that concept and use a faulty argument in your posting; i.e. "I just find it unbelieveable that all of those machine shop authors were making ethnic slurs in their writing." You fail to understand that certain words have multiple meanings. such as "nip" (Nip being derived from Nippon, the americanization of the pronunciation of Japan) as a racial slur and as "a small drink" or "a small cut" among others.. You are having trouble assimilating the entire post I made - and focusing only on the last line and taking it quite out of context. The entire point of my post was that there was a long-standing non-racist meaning of "jig". That last line was a sarcastic way of pointing out that all of those authors were *not* using an ethnic slur. You then came in and informed us all that words can have multiple meanings. Duh. With your line of logic, I certainly hope that the .edu in your address owes itself to you getting an email address becuase you sweep the floors or clean toilets and not becuase you try and educate anybody. Wow - you just discovered that I post from an .edu address, and thought up a way to be insulting. How impressive. -- --henry schaffer |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
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Silly Question about Jigs - --
I believe SOME people have been
reading WAY TOO MUCH Noam Chomsky "literature". "MHaseltine" wrote in message ... Last Saturday I was at an auction and was looking at the tools which happened to be inside . Another person was also broswing. The owner had made a number of wodden jigs for his table saw ranging from a miter sled to a tennoning jig. Just to make conversation with the other person, I stated that the owner and been rather prolific and had a lot of jigs to go with the saw. The person gave me that knowing look and said "their fixtures - you need to be careful and not call fixtures jigs" Well, my response was I'm a bit of a newbie at his (which is true) but everything I have read and heard refers to these things as jigs - fixtures is a new way of naming these things" Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?" Michael |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
Jigs hold or guide a tool - ie: kreg pocket hole jig, router templates.
Fixtures hold or guide work, therefore, the miter sled and tennoning 'jig' are fixtures. Ian "netnews.comcast.net" wrote in message news:mKuJb.38451$I07.128846@attbi_s53... I believe SOME people have been reading WAY TOO MUCH Noam Chomsky "literature". "MHaseltine" wrote in message ... Last Saturday I was at an auction and was looking at the tools which happened to be inside . Another person was also broswing. The owner had made a number of wodden jigs for his table saw ranging from a miter sled to a tennoning jig. Just to make conversation with the other person, I stated that the owner and been rather prolific and had a lot of jigs to go with the saw. The person gave me that knowing look and said "their fixtures - you need to be careful and not call fixtures jigs" Well, my response was I'm a bit of a newbie at his (which is true) but everything I have read and heard refers to these things as jigs - fixtures is a new way of naming these things" Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?" Michael |
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netnews.comcast.net wrote: I believe SOME people have been reading WAY TOO MUCH Noam Chomsky "literature". Who? ;) -- Mark N.E. Ohio Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens, A.K.A. Mark Twain) When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the suspense. (Gaz, r.moto) |
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Honestly, your all wrong,
anyone who's anyone knows their thingmummybobs ;-) Signal "netnews.comcast.net" wrote in message news:mKuJb.38451$I07.128846@attbi_s53... I believe SOME people have been reading WAY TOO MUCH Noam Chomsky "literature". "MHaseltine" wrote in message ... Last Saturday I was at an auction and was looking at the tools which happened to be inside . Another person was also broswing. The owner had made a number of wodden jigs for his table saw ranging from a miter sled to a tennoning jig. Just to make conversation with the other person, I stated that the owner and been rather prolific and had a lot of jigs to go with the saw. The person gave me that knowing look and said "their fixtures - you need to be careful and not call fixtures jigs" Well, my response was I'm a bit of a newbie at his (which is true) but everything I have read and heard refers to these things as jigs - fixtures is a new way of naming these things" Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?" Michael |
Silly Question about Jigs - --
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 19:06:22 +0000, MHaseltine wrote:
Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?" What's in a name? Does it really matter? Whatever these devices are, will it change their function or productivity? |
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