I have looked on the Internet and cannot find the answer to this question:

If I get a plunge router will it do EVERYTHING that a fixed base router
will do if the base is locked up?

Sorry for the simple question, but I can't believe that I can't find the
answer on the web anywhere.

In rec.woodworking
Mark Dailey wrote:

If I get a plunge router will it do EVERYTHING that a fixed base router
will do if the base is locked up?

Yes, a plunge router is a SUPERset of a fixed base router.

Mark Dailey wrote:
I have looked on the Internet and cannot find the answer to this question:

If I get a plunge router will it do EVERYTHING that a fixed base router
will do if the base is locked up?

I think so. The difference is degree of precision of depth adjustment.
Fixed base is more precise. Get router combo pack, the one which comes
with both fixed base and plunge. For example see:
http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=prod...521-353-1617PK
You can attach fixed base to some simple improvised router table and
use plung base for a hand held use.

Dmitri

In article ,
Bruce wrote:
In rec.woodworking
Mark Dailey wrote:

If I get a plunge router will it do EVERYTHING that a fixed base router
will do if the base is locked up?

Yes, a plunge router is a SUPERset of a fixed base router.

It is also "SUPER" in the sense that it is larger (for the units I've
seen.) So if the size/height (which can affect handling) is important
to you, this may be a consideration.
--
--henry schaffer

No.
"Dmitri" wrote in message
...
..
Fixed base is more precise.

The plunge base is typically heavier, so if you're using one all
day you may prefer the fixed.

Art

"Mark Dailey" wrote in message
m...
I have looked on the Internet and cannot find the answer to this question:

If I get a plunge router will it do EVERYTHING that a fixed base router
will do if the base is locked up?

Sorry for the simple question, but I can't believe that I can't find the
answer on the web anywhere.

I wholly support your right to be WRONG!

--
Erik "Grumpa" Ahrens
Apprentice Termite
I'd much rather be hammered than nailed 8~)



"CW" wrote in message
news:KDzwb.295871$Tr4.937370@attbi_s03...
No.
"Dmitri" wrote in message
...
.
Fixed base is more precise.

I suppose it can, but to me a plunge router is not ideal often. It is not
ideal in a table application. It is larger and more cumbersome (given the
same size motor) for edge work on smaller pieces. In fact, I really only
use a plunge base in cases where I'm truely benefitting by the plunge
action - i.e. when I need to route material "inside" a piece without
starting from the edge, such as when mortising since I don't have a
mortiser.

Just my preferences, FWIW.

Brian.

"Mark Dailey" wrote in message
m...
I have looked on the Internet and cannot find the answer to this question:

If I get a plunge router will it do EVERYTHING that a fixed base router
will do if the base is locked up?

Sorry for the simple question, but I can't believe that I can't find the
answer on the web anywhere.

Which I would appreciate if I were but I'm not.


"Erik" erikl_nospam_at_nospam_syserco.com wrote in message
...
I wholly support your right to be WRONG!

--
Erik "Grumpa" Ahrens
Apprentice Termite
I'd much rather be hammered than nailed 8~)



"CW" wrote in message
news:KDzwb.295871$Tr4.937370@attbi_s03...
No.
"Dmitri" wrote in message
...
.
Fixed base is more precise.

Some plunge routers have more precise depth adjustments mechanisms than
others, some are not. For what I have, Bosh combo kit, fixed base is
more precise.

Dmitri

CW wrote:
No.
"Dmitri" wrote in message
...
.

Fixed base is more precise.

CW, I've learned from you in the past - How about explaining your position.

--
Erik "Grumpa" Ahrens
Apprentice Termite
I'd much rather be hammered than nailed 8~)


"CW" wrote in message
news:CXBwb.294726$HS4.2667195@attbi_s01...
Which I would appreciate if I were but I'm not.


"Erik" erikl_nospam_at_nospam_syserco.com wrote in message
...
I wholly support your right to be WRONG!

--
Erik "Grumpa" Ahrens
Apprentice Termite
I'd much rather be hammered than nailed 8~)



"CW" wrote in message
news:KDzwb.295871$Tr4.937370@attbi_s03...
No.
"Dmitri" wrote in message
...
.
Fixed base is more precise.

I have the porter cable combo. The plunge base has about the crudest depth
adjustment on any router I have seen. It is very possible however to get
very precise adjustments using gage blocks and the screws in the turret. It
is more trouble than a better fine adjustment would be but can be done just
as accurately and nearly as fast. I don't have any problem using it for
cutting dovetails (where depth is rather critical) though I prefer the fixed
base for this as it is easier to handle.


"Erik" erikl_nospam_at_nospam_syserco.com wrote in message
...
CW, I've learned from you in the past - How about explaining your
position.

--
Erik "Grumpa" Ahrens
Apprentice Termite
I'd much rather be hammered than nailed 8~)


"CW" wrote in message
news:CXBwb.294726$HS4.2667195@attbi_s01...
Which I would appreciate if I were but I'm not.


"Erik" erikl_nospam_at_nospam_syserco.com wrote in message
...
I wholly support your right to be WRONG!

--
Erik "Grumpa" Ahrens
Apprentice Termite
I'd much rather be hammered than nailed 8~)



"CW" wrote in message
news:KDzwb.295871$Tr4.937370@attbi_s03...
No.
"Dmitri" wrote in message
...
.
Fixed base is more precise.

"Brian" wrote in message
...
I suppose it can, but to me a plunge router is not ideal often. It is not
ideal in a table application. It is larger and more cumbersome (given the
same size motor) for edge work on smaller pieces. In fact, I really only
use a plunge base in cases where I'm truely benefitting by the plunge
action - i.e. when I need to route material "inside" a piece without
starting from the edge, such as when mortising since I don't have a
mortiser.

Just my preferences, FWIW.

Brian.
==========================
I share Brians opinions ...

If I had ONLY one router then I would have to own a Plunge...because when
you need that feature you DO NEED IT... but I rarely NEED the ability to
make a Plunge cut...

I have routers that are dedicated for table use (a couple of regular tables,
an overhead Pin router table and a horizontal table...all these tables have
routers that never leave them... And I have one router that sits next to my
plunge router that I use for 90 percent of my hand held operations... The
Plunge router gets very little use..BUT like I said when I need that feature
I can pull the plunge router off the shelf...

Bob Griffiths

I have a combo set and it is nice to have the plunge base when I need but 9
times out of 10 I use the fixed base.

"Bob G" wrote in message
t...

"Brian" wrote in message
...
I suppose it can, but to me a plunge router is not ideal often. It is
not
ideal in a table application. It is larger and more cumbersome (given
the
same size motor) for edge work on smaller pieces. In fact, I really
only
use a plunge base in cases where I'm truely benefitting by the plunge
action - i.e. when I need to route material "inside" a piece without
starting from the edge, such as when mortising since I don't have a
mortiser.

Just my preferences, FWIW.

Brian.
==========================
I share Brians opinions ...

If I had ONLY one router then I would have to own a Plunge...because when
you need that feature you DO NEED IT... but I rarely NEED the ability to
make a Plunge cut...

I have routers that are dedicated for table use (a couple of regular
tables,
an overhead Pin router table and a horizontal table...all these tables
have
routers that never leave them... And I have one router that sits next to
my
plunge router that I use for 90 percent of my hand held operations... The
Plunge router gets very little use..BUT like I said when I need that
feature
I can pull the plunge router off the shelf...

Bob Griffiths

The DW 621 might.
See http//www.patwarner.com/621_offset.html link for some evidence
***********************************************
I have looked on the Internet and cannot find the answer to this question:

If I get a plunge router will it do EVERYTHING that a fixed base router
will do if the base is locked up?

Sorry for the simple question, but I can't believe that I can't find the
answer on the web anywhere.

Hey Mark,
I'd listen to Pat here. He's definitely the expert. You should also check
out his website and his books. I have no affiliation but I am a fan of Mr.
Warner.

"Routerman P. Warner" wrote in message
om...
The DW 621 might.
See http//www.patwarner.com/621_offset.html link for some evidence
***********************************************
I have looked on the Internet and cannot find the answer to this
question:

If I get a plunge router will it do EVERYTHING that a fixed base router
will do if the base is locked up?

Sorry for the simple question, but I can't believe that I can't find the
answer on the web anywhere.

Basically, I will want to be able to do things that both types can do
and for now if I can get a plunge router to do what a fixed base can do
(even if it's not as easy) that's what I want. I'll be in an apartment
on a smaller budget for at least 2 more years so I'd rather have one
tool that can do both even if it limps along at fixed base stuff.

I've looked at combo kits, but I read somewhere that for heavy-duty work
like panel making one should get a router with at least 2.75 HP; I
haven't seen any combos that are that size - at least not Porter Cable.
I figure that once you get to the $250+ range they are all the same,
but I've got my mind set on a Porter Cable.

Actually for now I just want to be able to 'dress' the edges of shelves
and maybe do some moulding/trim work so all I would need for now is a
fixed base, but would rather get one tool if I can get away with it --
thinking ahead. The truth of the matter is that I will probably be able
to afford another really good router by the time I'm advanced enough to
do plunge stuff, but I'd rather have a 2-in-1 if I can.

Another question: I have one of those Black & Decker folding Workmates
- is it possible to rig a mount in it to hold a router?

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:21:37 GMT, Mark Dailey
wrote:

If I get a plunge router will it do EVERYTHING that a fixed base router
will do if the base is locked up?

Depends on your router. IMHO the only plunge router worth having is
one (like my Freud) that has a good screw-adjust depth adjuster. Many
of them, especially the smaller ones, don't have this. If you have
depth adjust, then you've pretty much got the lot.

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

One of the many B&D Workmate router tables
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/fe...ea.asp?id=1108

Google search for workmate router tables
http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...outer+table%22

I have two 3+HP plunge routers, one is fixed speed and the other is variable
speed. The plunge router will do everything a fixed base router will do and
just as easily. I use my router daily hand held or in a table with no
problems.
My advice is to get a quality large variable speed plunge router.

While you are looking at routers you might want to have a look at the Triton
router very innovative, an excellent router.
http://www.triton.net.au/products/router_2.html
Review here
http://cerealport.net/woodworking/triton/index.html

Mark Dailey wrote:

Basically, I will want to be able to do things that both types can do
and for now if I can get a plunge router to do what a fixed base can do
(even if it's not as easy) that's what I want. I'll be in an apartment
on a smaller budget for at least 2 more years so I'd rather have one
tool that can do both even if it limps along at fixed base stuff.

I've looked at combo kits, but I read somewhere that for heavy-duty work
like panel making one should get a router with at least 2.75 HP; I
haven't seen any combos that are that size - at least not Porter Cable.
I figure that once you get to the $250+ range they are all the same,
but I've got my mind set on a Porter Cable.

Actually for now I just want to be able to 'dress' the edges of shelves
and maybe do some moulding/trim work so all I would need for now is a
fixed base, but would rather get one tool if I can get away with it --
thinking ahead. The truth of the matter is that I will probably be able
to afford another really good router by the time I'm advanced enough to
do plunge stuff, but I'd rather have a 2-in-1 if I can.

Another question: I have one of those Black & Decker folding Workmates
- is it possible to rig a mount in it to hold a router?

Thank you all for your replies. I just hope that some day I'm good
enough at something to give sound advice. Right now I just kinda' know
a 'medium' amount about many things, but am an expert in none.

I'm definitely going to get a 3.25 HP unit (Porter-Cable 7539)
http://porter-cable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=2822 and I really like the
Popular Woodworking Workmate router table. It may be a bit beyond my
skill level, but I can probably muddle through it. If not my
brother-in-law can certainly help me with it.

There was also a really cool one linked off of one of the sites in the
Google link, but it is a complete free-standing table. I grabbed those
plans too because I will definitely build one of those when I have a house.

Thanks Everyone,
Mark Dailey

Sprog wrote:
One of the many B&D Workmate router tables
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/fe...ea.asp?id=1108

Google search for workmate router tables
http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...outer+table%22

I have two 3+HP plunge routers, one is fixed speed and the other is variable
speed. The plunge router will do everything a fixed base router will do and
just as easily. I use my router daily hand held or in a table with no
problems.
My advice is to get a quality large variable speed plunge router.

While you are looking at routers you might want to have a look at the Triton
router very innovative, an excellent router.
http://www.triton.net.au/products/router_2.html
Review here
http://cerealport.net/woodworking/triton/index.html

Mark;
Have you considered the Hitachi M12V, which also is a 3-1/4 hp unit? Cost
appears to be about 60% of the PC. I definitely wouldn't exchange mine for
that PC even without considering the price difference.

Brian

"Mark Dailey" wrote in message
igy.com...
| Thank you all for your replies. I just hope that some day I'm good
| enough at something to give sound advice. Right now I just kinda' know
| a 'medium' amount about many things, but am an expert in none.
|
| I'm definitely going to get a 3.25 HP unit (Porter-Cable 7539)
| http://porter-cable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=2822 and I really like the
| Popular Woodworking Workmate router table. It may be a bit beyond my
| skill level, but I can probably muddle through it. If not my
| brother-in-law can certainly help me with it.
|
| There was also a really cool one linked off of one of the sites in the
| Google link, but it is a complete free-standing table. I grabbed those
| plans too because I will definitely build one of those when I have a
house.
|
| Thanks Everyone,
| Mark Dailey
|
| Sprog wrote:
| One of the many B&D Workmate router tables
| http://www.popularwoodworking.com/fe...ea.asp?id=1108
|
| Google search for workmate router tables
|
http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...outer+table%22
|
| I have two 3+HP plunge routers, one is fixed speed and the other is
variable
| speed. The plunge router will do everything a fixed base router will do
and
| just as easily. I use my router daily hand held or in a table with no
| problems.
| My advice is to get a quality large variable speed plunge router.
|
| While you are looking at routers you might want to have a look at the
Triton
| router very innovative, an excellent router.
| http://www.triton.net.au/products/router_2.html
| Review here
| http://cerealport.net/woodworking/triton/index.html
|

I don't know - I'm stubborn. In one of the other posts someone
suggested a Triton. It looks great. I bet the Hitachi is great, but
what about durability/longevity? I know Porter-Cable has been around
for decades. I've got it in my head that certain tools should be of a
certain brand i.e.:

Router: Porter-Cable
Belt Sander: Porter-Cable
Drill: DeWalt or Milwaulkee
Recriprocating Saw: Milwaukee
Circular Saw: Skil
Band Saw: Delta

I don't know where I got these ideas; either from watching home
improvement shows for years or watching what building engineers and
contractors in office buildings use or a dream, but these are just
burned in my head as the brands for those tools.

Brian in Vancouver, BC wrote:
Mark;
Have you considered the Hitachi M12V, which also is a 3-1/4 hp unit? Cost
appears to be about 60% of the PC. I definitely wouldn't exchange mine for
that PC even without considering the price difference.

Brian

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 01:22:35 GMT, Mark Dailey
wrote:

I don't know - I'm stubborn. In one of the other posts someone
suggested a Triton. It looks great. I bet the Hitachi is great, but
what about durability/longevity? I know Porter-Cable has been around
for decades. I've got it in my head that certain tools should be of a
certain brand i.e.:

Yeah - I know what you mean. Here are mine:

Router: Porter-Cable
Belt Sander: Porter-Cable
Drill: Milwaulkee
Recriprocating Saw: Milwaukee (absolutely)
Circular Saw: Porter-Cable
Band Saw: Laguna
Table Saw: Delta or Powermatic

"Mark Dailey" wrote in message
...
|
| Router: Porter-Cable
| Belt Sander: Porter-Cable
| Drill: DeWalt or Milwaulkee
| Recriprocating Saw: Milwaukee
| Circular Saw: Skil
| Band Saw: Delta

Wow, I got more hits than misses. I'm in the market for a router and my
uncle (pro woodworker) recommended the Porter-Cable with the dual
fixed/plunge bases.

Belt Sander: Skil -- piece of crap
Drill: DeWalt -- love it, but I bought the really nice one
Recip. Saw: Milwaukee -- love it; i can saw through a Buick with it
Circular Saw: Skil -- the first power tool I ever bought
Band Saw: Craftsman -- not very good, but works well enough for most of my
projects

--Jay

Read this article before you decide:

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/nprod-11.htm

Jay Windley wrote:

"Mark Dailey" wrote in message
...
|
| Router: Porter-Cable
| Belt Sander: Porter-Cable
| Drill: DeWalt or Milwaulkee
| Recriprocating Saw: Milwaukee
| Circular Saw: Skil
| Band Saw: Delta

Wow, I got more hits than misses. I'm in the market for a router and my
uncle (pro woodworker) recommended the Porter-Cable with the dual
fixed/plunge bases.

Belt Sander: Skil -- piece of crap
Drill: DeWalt -- love it, but I bought the really nice one
Recip. Saw: Milwaukee -- love it; i can saw through a Buick with it
Circular Saw: Skil -- the first power tool I ever bought
Band Saw: Craftsman -- not very good, but works well enough for most of my
projects

--Jay

Whew! So it's not just me then?

Jay Pique wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 01:22:35 GMT, Mark Dailey
wrote:


I don't know - I'm stubborn. In one of the other posts someone
suggested a Triton. It looks great. I bet the Hitachi is great, but
what about durability/longevity? I know Porter-Cable has been around
for decades. I've got it in my head that certain tools should be of a
certain brand i.e.:


Yeah - I know what you mean. Here are mine:

Router: Porter-Cable
Belt Sander: Porter-Cable
Drill: Milwaulkee
Recriprocating Saw: Milwaukee (absolutely)
Circular Saw: Porter-Cable
Band Saw: Laguna
Table Saw: Delta or Powermatic

I learned a long time ago that you get what you pay for. And what you
say about the drill and recip saw: absolutely. Wow, a circular saw was
your first power tool - damn, it was like my 3rd.

Jay Windley wrote:


Wow, I got more hits than misses. I'm in the market for a router and my
uncle (pro woodworker) recommended the Porter-Cable with the dual
fixed/plunge bases.

Belt Sander: Skil -- piece of crap
Drill: DeWalt -- love it, but I bought the really nice one
Recip. Saw: Milwaukee -- love it; i can saw through a Buick with it
Circular Saw: Skil -- the first power tool I ever bought
Band Saw: Craftsman -- not very good, but works well enough for most of my
projects

--Jay

That site is sweet. Even thought it did the raised panel door the
"Router Workshop Guys" (or one of them at least) say you should get at
least a 2.5 HP router for that. Even the guy on that website it bogged
down the motor momentarily. Even though the motor 'wound' back up that
doesn't sound good to me - you don't think that's a problem?

Pat Barber wrote:

Read this article before you decide:

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/nprod-11.htm

Jay Windley wrote:

"Mark Dailey" wrote in message
...
|
| Router: Porter-Cable
| Belt Sander: Porter-Cable
| Drill: DeWalt or Milwaulkee
| Recriprocating Saw: Milwaukee
| Circular Saw: Skil
| Band Saw: Delta

Wow, I got more hits than misses. I'm in the market for a router and my
uncle (pro woodworker) recommended the Porter-Cable with the dual
fixed/plunge bases.

Belt Sander: Skil -- piece of crap
Drill: DeWalt -- love it, but I bought the really nice one
Recip. Saw: Milwaukee -- love it; i can saw through a Buick with it
Circular Saw: Skil -- the first power tool I ever bought
Band Saw: Craftsman -- not very good, but works well enough for most
of my
projects

--Jay

That is exactly what the electronics are supposed to do, as more load is put
onto the bit more power is supplied to the router.

Mark Dailey wrote:

Even the guy on that website it bogged
down the motor momentarily. Even though the motor 'wound' back up that
doesn't sound good to me - you don't think that's a problem?

Pat Barber wrote:

Read this article before you decide:

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/nprod-11.htm

Jay Windley wrote:

"Mark Dailey" wrote in message
...
|
| Router: Porter-Cable
| Belt Sander: Porter-Cable
| Drill: DeWalt or Milwaulkee
| Recriprocating Saw: Milwaukee
| Circular Saw: Skil
| Band Saw: Delta

Wow, I got more hits than misses. I'm in the market for a router and my
uncle (pro woodworker) recommended the Porter-Cable with the dual
fixed/plunge bases.

Belt Sander: Skil -- piece of crap
Drill: DeWalt -- love it, but I bought the really nice one
Recip. Saw: Milwaukee -- love it; i can saw through a Buick with it
Circular Saw: Skil -- the first power tool I ever bought
Band Saw: Craftsman -- not very good, but works well enough for most
of my
projects

--Jay

You might have your doubts about the Triton router but PC have stolen some of
their ideas :-)

Mark Dailey wrote:

Whew! So it's not just me then?

Jay Pique wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 01:22:35 GMT, Mark Dailey
wrote:


I don't know - I'm stubborn. In one of the other posts someone
suggested a Triton. It looks great. I bet the Hitachi is great, but
what about durability/longevity? I know Porter-Cable has been around
for decades. I've got it in my head that certain tools should be of a
certain brand i.e.:


Yeah - I know what you mean. Here are mine:

Router: Porter-Cable
Belt Sander: Porter-Cable
Drill: Milwaulkee
Recriprocating Saw: Milwaukee (absolutely)
Circular Saw: Porter-Cable
Band Saw: Laguna
Table Saw: Delta or Powermatic

"Mark Dailey" wrote in message
y.com...
|
| I learned a long time ago that you get what you pay for.

Right. How much I spend on a tool depends on how much I anticipate using
it. I am a hobbyist woodworker, so the economics work out to how much I'm
willing to spend on my hobby.

I bought the Skil belt sander basically for a single project, and wanted to
spend as little as possible. The screw for adjusting the roller skew fell
out a few years ago and I haven't found a suitable replacement. So the belt
walks all over. The pressure plate needs adjustment because when I place
the tool on a flat surface, the rollers bite more deeply than the plate.
(This may be related to the missing adjustment screw.) So maybe it's unfair
to judge a tool based on its performance in a degraded condition, and maybe
it's foolish of me to use it in that condition and expect good performance.

I've used hand drills from Black & Decker and DeWalt. We use DeWalt
cordless in our assembly area at work (rack mounted cluster supercomputers)
and they seem to hold up. My cordless DeWalt worked for three years or so.
The chuck disintegrated and the gearbox developed a hoarse gravelly sound.
I can't really cuss the tool, however, because I think having dropped it
into my salt-water aquarium had something to do with its eventual demise.
And probably with the subsequent demise of the fish. :-)

I have a corded DeWalt drill, which I use for heavy duty stuff like doorknob
holes. I described my current DeWalt cordless in the thread about whether
we save or throw out the carrying cases. I don't remember the model number,
but I paid about $300 for it. I love the three speed settings and the
torque clutch. I use the guy for light-duty drilling (high-speed setting)
and for all my power screwdriving. I like the sensitive torque clutch
because I do a lot of machine assembly where you *really* want to avoid
stripping the screw heads. A long Phillips bit and a torque setting of 1 or
2 is perfect for putting printed circuit boards into prototype housings.

I got a cordless B&D from a place where I used to work. They laid off our
entire field office, so in spite we drew straws for who got to walk out with
the substantial tool collection. I won. Except that the B&D is a gutless
piece of crap.

I bought the reciprocating saw because I'm in the slow process of remodeling
my 1940s era house. The guys who did my windows used a Milwaukee to saw
through the old steel window frames. I asked him how he liked the tool and
he said, "I wouldn't [expletive] pick up another [expletive] saw." Just
recently I had to saw some appliances free from a makeshift frame that the
previous owner had built around them. The Milwaukee went through 2x4s like
butter. And after kicking the mangled frame debris free, I noticed the
thing had cut through a couple of 16d nails like butter. God, I [expletive]
love that saw.

| Wow, a circular saw was your first power tool - damn, it was
| like my 3rd.

It was the first one I *bought*. I think I was 20 or so and just getting
away from dad's tool collection.

My dad and his father in law built the house in which I did most of my
growing up. My dad designed it and his f-in-l was the general contractor
(which he had done professionally for decades using mostly stuff he bought
at Sears). A lot of my early experience was using tools leftover from that
project. For years there was an unused table saw in our basement. I was
told the motor was shot or the shaft was bent or something. Nowadays I'm
kicking myself for not having brought it back to life. We gave it away to
someone who, unlike me at the time, knew its value.

But I found myself doing a lot of carpentry at the time, and a circular saw
was the most useful tool on my budget. If all you do is cut materials and
nail them in place, a circular saw is a good thing to have.

Several years ago I bought a series of shop tools -- a small band saw, a
small drill press, and a small radial arm saw -- with the idea of getting
more serious. They're all Craftsman. Why? Because Sears was close and
because I still had my grandfather's unequivocal praise of that tool line
ringing in my ears. This was a guy who knew every trick to building
everything from cabinets to office buildings. He had -- at some point --
done every phase of the work from mining the iron ore and coal to logging to
refining the steel to sawyering to cutting dovetails with a pocketknife to
mixing his own dyes.

My frustration with these tools in recent years is due, I think, to their
not being of exceptionally high quality to begin with. But it's also a
result of my inattention to keeping them adjusted and maintained.

--Jay

See, I'm more stubborn because I'll spend the money regardless of how
much I expect to use it. I guess I feel safer with the best tool
sitting on a shelf than a mediocre one I use all the time.

I've never done any major demo work so I don't have a recip saw yet, but
that would be the next handheld tool after a router and it will
definitely be a Milwaukee.

I'm not a fan of cordless tools because I don't use them every day so
I'm not likely to keep them charged and they won't be ready when I need
them.

I'll make a mental note to not put my power tools in salt water. :P

Did you see this site in one of the other threads?
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/nprod-11.htm I definitely bookmarked it...

Mark

Jay Windley wrote:
"Mark Dailey" wrote in message
y.com...
|
| I learned a long time ago that you get what you pay for.

Right. How much I spend on a tool depends on how much I anticipate using
it. I am a hobbyist woodworker, so the economics work out to how much I'm
willing to spend on my hobby.

I bought the Skil belt sander basically for a single project, and wanted to
spend as little as possible. The screw for adjusting the roller skew fell
out a few years ago and I haven't found a suitable replacement. So the belt
walks all over. The pressure plate needs adjustment because when I place
the tool on a flat surface, the rollers bite more deeply than the plate.
(This may be related to the missing adjustment screw.) So maybe it's unfair
to judge a tool based on its performance in a degraded condition, and maybe
it's foolish of me to use it in that condition and expect good performance.

I've used hand drills from Black & Decker and DeWalt. We use DeWalt
cordless in our assembly area at work (rack mounted cluster supercomputers)
and they seem to hold up. My cordless DeWalt worked for three years or so.
The chuck disintegrated and the gearbox developed a hoarse gravelly sound.
I can't really cuss the tool, however, because I think having dropped it
into my salt-water aquarium had something to do with its eventual demise.
And probably with the subsequent demise of the fish. :-)

I have a corded DeWalt drill, which I use for heavy duty stuff like doorknob
holes. I described my current DeWalt cordless in the thread about whether
we save or throw out the carrying cases. I don't remember the model number,
but I paid about $300 for it. I love the three speed settings and the
torque clutch. I use the guy for light-duty drilling (high-speed setting)
and for all my power screwdriving. I like the sensitive torque clutch
because I do a lot of machine assembly where you *really* want to avoid
stripping the screw heads. A long Phillips bit and a torque setting of 1 or
2 is perfect for putting printed circuit boards into prototype housings.

I got a cordless B&D from a place where I used to work. They laid off our
entire field office, so in spite we drew straws for who got to walk out with
the substantial tool collection. I won. Except that the B&D is a gutless
piece of crap.

I bought the reciprocating saw because I'm in the slow process of remodeling
my 1940s era house. The guys who did my windows used a Milwaukee to saw
through the old steel window frames. I asked him how he liked the tool and
he said, "I wouldn't [expletive] pick up another [expletive] saw." Just
recently I had to saw some appliances free from a makeshift frame that the
previous owner had built around them. The Milwaukee went through 2x4s like
butter. And after kicking the mangled frame debris free, I noticed the
thing had cut through a couple of 16d nails like butter. God, I [expletive]
love that saw.

| Wow, a circular saw was your first power tool - damn, it was
| like my 3rd.

It was the first one I *bought*. I think I was 20 or so and just getting
away from dad's tool collection.

My dad and his father in law built the house in which I did most of my
growing up. My dad designed it and his f-in-l was the general contractor
(which he had done professionally for decades using mostly stuff he bought
at Sears). A lot of my early experience was using tools leftover from that
project. For years there was an unused table saw in our basement. I was
told the motor was shot or the shaft was bent or something. Nowadays I'm
kicking myself for not having brought it back to life. We gave it away to
someone who, unlike me at the time, knew its value.

But I found myself doing a lot of carpentry at the time, and a circular saw
was the most useful tool on my budget. If all you do is cut materials and
nail them in place, a circular saw is a good thing to have.

Several years ago I bought a series of shop tools -- a small band saw, a
small drill press, and a small radial arm saw -- with the idea of getting
more serious. They're all Craftsman. Why? Because Sears was close and
because I still had my grandfather's unequivocal praise of that tool line
ringing in my ears. This was a guy who knew every trick to building
everything from cabinets to office buildings. He had -- at some point --
done every phase of the work from mining the iron ore and coal to logging to
refining the steel to sawyering to cutting dovetails with a pocketknife to
mixing his own dyes.

My frustration with these tools in recent years is due, I think, to their
not being of exceptionally high quality to begin with. But it's also a
result of my inattention to keeping them adjusted and maintained.

--Jay

I'm not keen on the idea of putting electronics in a rotary tool. I'm
afraid of what the magnetic field from the rotation might do to the
electronic components.

PC borrowed (read stole) ideas from Triton? How embarrassing for PC...

Mark

Sprog wrote:

That is exactly what the electronics are supposed to do, as more load is put
onto the bit more power is supplied to the router.

"Mark Dailey" wrote in message
igy.com...
|
| I guess I feel safer with the best tool sitting on a shelf
| than a mediocre one I use all the time.

Right. It depends on your personal perception of value. Since most power
tools are simply variations on the theme of whirling sharp metal blades
attached to powerful motors, having one presumably built to the highest
standards of safety and reliability would be a good thing. You don't
necessary want to hold a Fisher-Price router in your hands.

| I'm not a fan of cordless tools because I don't use them
| every day so I'm not likely to keep them charged and they
| won't be ready when I need them.

I have spare batts for all my tools. There's the batt in the tool and at
least one that's charged and ready in the toolchest. When a batt goes flat,
it goes right into the charger. I've never had a problem with getting
caught without batteries, but that's because I take precautions.

If you do most of your work at a bench, you probably don't need cordless
tools. But in addition to bench work I also do carpentry-type work where
you walk around a lot and climb up and down ladders. Being rid of that cord
is priceless under those circumstances.

| I'll make a mental note to not put my power tools in salt
| water. :P

Yep. Good safety tip.

| Did you see this site in one of the other threads?
| http://www.woodshopdemos.com/nprod-11.htm I definitely
| bookmarked it...

I did. I skimmed it, bookmarked it, and I'll be reading it carefully before
I go shopping.

--Jay

Not embarrassing for PC, they just recognize good ideas and quality when they
see them

:-)

Mark Dailey wrote:



PC borrowed (read stole) ideas from Triton? How embarrassing for PC...

Mark

Mark Dailey wrote in
igy.com:

I'm not keen on the idea of putting electronics in a rotary tool. I'm
afraid of what the magnetic field from the rotation might do to the
electronic components.

PC borrowed (read stole) ideas from Triton? How embarrassing for
PC...

Mark

Sprog wrote:

That is exactly what the electronics are supposed to do, as more load
is put onto the bit more power is supplied to the router.




Actually Triton took ideas from just about every other router manufacturer
and combined them. How embarrassing for Triton. Triton holds no patents
that I know of, they combined features of other routers and suggestions
from router users.
PC borrowed (read stole) is a bunch of bull****.
Hank


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If the Hitachi's were good enough for Bob and Rick, they're good nuff for me
!

--
The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
So I installed it on Linux...
"Brian in Vancouver, BC" wrote in message
news:cEuyb.82805$oN2.50260@edtnps84...
Mark;
Have you considered the Hitachi M12V, which also is a 3-1/4 hp unit? Cost
appears to be about 60% of the PC. I definitely wouldn't exchange mine
for
that PC even without considering the price difference.

Brian

"Mark Dailey" wrote in message
igy.com...
| Thank you all for your replies. I just hope that some day I'm good
| enough at something to give sound advice. Right now I just kinda' know
| a 'medium' amount about many things, but am an expert in none.
|
| I'm definitely going to get a 3.25 HP unit (Porter-Cable 7539)
| http://porter-cable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=2822 and I really like the
| Popular Woodworking Workmate router table. It may be a bit beyond my
| skill level, but I can probably muddle through it. If not my
| brother-in-law can certainly help me with it.
|
| There was also a really cool one linked off of one of the sites in the
| Google link, but it is a complete free-standing table. I grabbed those
| plans too because I will definitely build one of those when I have a
house.
|
| Thanks Everyone,
| Mark Dailey
|
| Sprog wrote:
| One of the many B&D Workmate router tables
| http://www.popularwoodworking.com/fe...ea.asp?id=1108
|
| Google search for workmate router tables
|

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...outer+table%22
|
| I have two 3+HP plunge routers, one is fixed speed and the other is
variable
| speed. The plunge router will do everything a fixed base router will
do
and
| just as easily. I use my router daily hand held or in a table with no
| problems.
| My advice is to get a quality large variable speed plunge router.
|
| While you are looking at routers you might want to have a look at the
Triton
| router very innovative, an excellent router.
| http://www.triton.net.au/products/router_2.html
| Review here
| http://cerealport.net/woodworking/triton/index.html
|

Gee mate, lighten up, get a sense of humor :-)

"Henry St.Pierre" wrote:


PC borrowed (read stole) is a bunch of bull****.
Hank

The main thing with me and rechargeable tools is that I don't use them
often enough to make a habit of keeping a battery charged. That plus
the batteries would probably degrade and no longer be made by the
manufacturer and I would have to discard a 'like new' tool because the
batteries are dead dead. I can definitely appreciate the utility of
rechargeable tools - I just don't have as much use for them as other
people. Also, rechargeable tools are useful when building a structure
from the ground up before wiring has been run...

I was just suggesting that it was embarassing for P-C because a new guy
had better ideas. It was just a joke.

The Hitachi is a cool green color, too.

I'm sure there are plenty of routers that are as good as P-C and some
that may be better, but I just trust the durability of P-C because
they've been around so long...