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#1
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
Went to the WOODWORKS 2003 show in Nashville Saturday .. .. .. spoke
with a lady from WOODCRAFT who offered me a catalog and a coupon good during their Grand Opening .. .. .. I half jokingly declined, saying I was still mad at WOODCRAFT for the clamp fiasco. She said if many more folks hold out because of that, their Grand Opening might well be a bankruptcy sale. Seems there were a lot of folks showing up for the sale and leaving empty handed. She said each store was allotted 40 clamps in each of 3 sizes or 120 total. There are 70+ stores in the country. That comes to 8400 clamps out in the field. If WOODCRAFT bought 15,000 clamps total, that left 6,600 clamps in stock for the midnight madness online sale. Assuming at least SOME were set aside for employees and "special;" friends, there were probably less than 6,000 available for sale online. At 12/customer, that left enough for 500 orders, or approximately 10 per state. I still think they under ordered by a tremendous margin. -- __ Bob __ |
#2
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
Christopher asks:
I just don't get the anger at Woodcraft over this. I didn't get any clamps out of the deal and I'm not angry at them at all though I sure would have liked to have grabbed a few. Where do people get the idea that Woodcraft has some obligation to have enough of a sale item in stock to supply every woodworker in America? I think you missed the point of those who are angry. They had CONFIRMED orders, which were then turned back, refused, etc. Charlie Self "Ain't no man can avoid being born average, but there ain't no man got to be common." Satchel Paige |
#3
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
"___ Bob ___" wrote in message
... Went to the WOODWORKS 2003 show in Nashville Saturday .. .. .. spoke with a lady from WOODCRAFT who offered me a catalog and a coupon good during their Grand Opening .. .. .. I half jokingly declined, saying I was still mad at WOODCRAFT for the clamp fiasco. I just don't get the anger at Woodcraft over this. I didn't get any clamps out of the deal and I'm not angry at them at all though I sure would have liked to have grabbed a few. Where do people get the idea that Woodcraft has some obligation to have enough of a sale item in stock to supply every woodworker in America? If your local Mercedes dealer decides to mark down their cars to a level the average Joe is willing to pay and they sell out before you get there are you going to get mad at them and beat them up the way Woodcraft has been over this? 15,000 clamps @ 12 per person means 1250 people could have gotten a great deal on the clamps. We all know that many people weren't able to get in on the deal because some were buying multiple times but there are still a bunch of happy wood butchers out there now. Woodcraft didn't turn this into a "fiasco", woodworkers did. BTW, this is not directed at you in particular Bob. -Chris |
#4
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
"Christopher" wrote in message Where do people get the idea that Woodcraft has some obligation to have enough of a sale item in stock to supply every woodworker in America? They should have planned the sale date better. If they checked my buying history, most large purchases are the weekend after payday. All they had to do was check their sales database, do an analysis, and schedule the sale for this weekend coming up. Due to their short sightedness, I'm going to be clamp impaired for months to come. I take no responsibility for this as they could have done better. Ed |
#5
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message ... "Christopher" wrote in message Where do people get the idea that Woodcraft has some obligation to have enough of a sale item in stock to supply every woodworker in America? They should have planned the sale date better. If they checked my buying history, most large purchases are the weekend after payday. All they had to do was check their sales database, do an analysis, and schedule the sale for this weekend coming up. Due to their short sightedness, I'm going to be clamp impaired for months to come. I take no responsibility for this as they could have done better. Ed Ed, EXACTLY. In fact, if I were you I wouldn't stop whining about them until they send me a dozen clamps postage free. You might try using rubber bands until they get around to this. I can't belive they are so insensitive. -Jack |
#6
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
... Christopher asks: I just don't get the anger at Woodcraft over this. I didn't get any clamps out of the deal and I'm not angry at them at all though I sure would have liked to have grabbed a few. Where do people get the idea that Woodcraft has some obligation to have enough of a sale item in stock to supply every woodworker in America? I think you missed the point of those who are angry. They had CONFIRMED orders, which were then turned back, refused, etc. Charlie Self "Ain't no man can avoid being born average, but there ain't no man got to be common." Satchel Paige My understanding, as well as my own experience with the Woodcraft online sale, was that the order was never "confirmed" but said "order pending confirmation" or something like that. I woke up the next day with an email that said part of my order was sold out due to the clamps already being out of stock by the time I put those clamps in my "cart". I'm not mad at Woodcraft at all...it was clear enough to me (based on the message as well as the obvious slowness of the whole system) that it was possible my items wouldn't be available to me. PJ |
#7
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
"___ Bob ___" wrote in message ...
Went to the WOODWORKS 2003 show in Nashville Saturday .. .. .. spoke with a lady from WOODCRAFT who offered me a catalog and a coupon good during their Grand Opening .. .. .. I half jokingly declined, saying I was still mad at WOODCRAFT for the clamp fiasco. She said if many more folks hold out because of that, their Grand Opening might well be a bankruptcy sale. Seems there were a lot of folks showing up for the sale and leaving empty handed. She said each store was allotted 40 clamps in each of 3 sizes or 120 total. There are 70+ stores in the country. That comes to 8400 clamps out in the field. If WOODCRAFT bought 15,000 clamps total, that left 6,600 clamps in stock for the midnight madness online sale. Assuming at least SOME were set aside for employees and "special;" friends, there were probably less than 6,000 available for sale online. At 12/customer, that left enough for 500 orders, or approximately 10 per state. I still think they under ordered by a tremendous margin. Woodcraft employees weren't allowed to buy them (at least the ones in the retail stores). My father-in-law works in such a store, and could not buy any for himself. The stock that they had in the store lasted until Saturday afternoon. I stopped by Friday afternoon and picked up 6 clamps for myself, and they still had a pretty good stack of them left over. It kinda sucks that everybody who wanted them couldn't get them, but has anybody considered the possibility that Jorgensen may not have allowed Woodcraft to buy as many as they wanted? It sounds like Jorgensen made no money on the added production necessary to make all of these things, so I'd expect that they limited retailers to a certain number of clamps (to prevent them from stocking up and screwing Jorgensen out of future profitable sales). |
#8
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
"Me" wrote in message om... snip It kinda sucks that everybody who wanted them couldn't get them, but has anybody considered the possibility that Jorgensen may not have allowed Woodcraft to buy as many as they wanted? It sounds like Jorgensen made no money on the added production necessary to make all of these things, so I'd expect that they limited retailers to a certain number of clamps (to prevent them from stocking up and screwing Jorgensen out of future profitable sales). There was a letter from the folks at Adjustable Clamp Co (maker of Jorgensen) that stated the various companies were allowed to order as many as they wanted for this special. However, they had to have their order in a while ago and couldn't order more at that price. todd |
#9
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message ... most large purchases are the weekend after payday. All they had to do was check their sales database, do an analysis, and schedule the sale for this weekend coming up. You're kidding, right? Just forgot to add the emoticon, right? |
#10
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
I think we maybe oughtta consider everyone meeting at one
spot. We'll all bring torches and we'll go out and storm each and every Woodcraft in the nation. We'll burn them all to the ground. That'll teach them a lesson. By the way, wear your old clothes. The rattier the better. UA100 |
#11
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
My understanding, as well as my own experience with the Woodcraft online sale, was that the order was never "confirmed" but said "order pending confirmation" or something like that. I woke up the next day with an email that said part of my order was sold out due to the clamps already being out of stock by the time I put those clamps in my "cart". I'm not mad at Woodcraft at all...it was clear enough to me (based on the message as well as the obvious slowness of the whole system) that it was possible my items wouldn't be available to me. PJ My printed out copy clearly says "Confirmed" not pending or the like. |
#12
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
"Charlie Self" wrote in message ... Christopher asks: I just don't get the anger at Woodcraft over this. I didn't get any clamps out of the deal and I'm not angry at them at all though I sure would have liked to have grabbed a few. Where do people get the idea that Woodcraft has some obligation to have enough of a sale item in stock to supply every woodworker in America? I think you missed the point of those who are angry. They had CONFIRMED orders, which were then turned back, refused, etc. Charlie Self "Ain't no man can avoid being born average, but there ain't no man got to be common." Satchel Paige That may be true in some cases but certainly not all. The OP for this thread didn't mention anything about his order being confirmed by mistake. He only complained that Woodcraft didn't stock up on enough clamps so that everyone wanting some could get them. -Chris |
#13
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
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#14
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
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#15
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
"Abe" wrote in message My printed out copy clearly says "Confirmed" not pending or the like. Yours wasn't the only one. Abe Perhaps they confirmed "receipt" of the order, but not necessarily that it would be shipped or that your CC has been approved. Instead of speculating, if concerned, contact Woodcraft for an explanation. They would know more that we do on the subject. Ed |
#16
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:40:52 -0600, Unisaw A100
wrote: I think we maybe oughtta consider everyone meeting at one spot. We'll all bring torches and we'll go out and storm each and every Woodcraft in the nation. We'll burn them all to the ground. That'll teach them a lesson. By the way, wear your old clothes. The rattier the better. UA100 Please wait until the class I'm taking ends. G Barry |
#17
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
Shhh ... listen carefully ... is that the gentle 'plop' of bait hitting the
placid waters? ;) -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 9/21/03 "Edwin Pawlowski"wrote in message They should have planned the sale date better. If they checked my buying history, most large purchases are the weekend after payday. All they had to do was check their sales database, do an analysis, and schedule the sale for this weekend coming up. Due to their short sightedness, I'm going to be clamp impaired for months to come. I take no responsibility for this as they could have done better. |
#18
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
On 28-Oct-2003, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
Perhaps they confirmed "receipt" of the order, but not necessarily that it would be shipped or that your CC has been approved. Maybe the web page programmers botched it and issue a confirmation by mistake. After all, how much software is actually reliable? Getting one's shorts in a knot over this issue seems to me a waste of energy. I've missed lots of opportunities - I get over it. Mike |
#19
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
"Swingman" wrote in message news.com... Shhh ... listen carefully ... is that the gentle 'plop' of bait hitting the placid waters? Gracias! I almost bit... |
#20
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
Perhaps they confirmed "receipt" of the order, but not necessarily that it
would be shipped or that your CC has been approved. Instead of speculating, if concerned, contact Woodcraft for an explanation. They would know more that we do on the subject. Ed I did call Woodcraft. The morning after the sale as they sent an email saying one of the line items was cancelled (I was fortunate to have gotten two line items delivered unlike others who had their whole order cancelled). I don't see it being a CC issue as they shipped a partial order. A cc issue would have cancelled the whole order. Their explanation went something like this: We're sorry but our systems couldn't keep up with demand. Consequently, orders were placed and confirmed but the inventory had already been sold. My gripe with Woodcraft at this point has to do with them not being properly prepared to handle such a sale and their unwillingness to do the right thing after the fact. They'd do much better to simply eat the cost of filling those "confirmed" orders and retain their customer base. I work for Intel and learned a lot from how they handled their Floating Point issue on the Pentium several years ago. That screw up cost the company $500M and lost a large number of customers. Cheers, cc |
#21
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
"James Cubby Culbertson" wrote in message Their explanation went something like this: We're sorry but our systems couldn't keep up with demand. Consequently, orders were placed and confirmed but the inventory had already been sold. My gripe with Woodcraft at this point has to do with them not being properly prepared to handle such a sale and their unwillingness to do the right thing after the fact. They'd do much better to simply eat the cost of filling those "confirmed" orders and retain their customer base. They have probably never experienced at rush on orders like this. Being prepared, in hindsight, may have been to install $500,000 is servers for the one time sale. They probably should do something for the people with confirmed orders. It would go a long way to improving good will. As for the ones that just got there too late, tough, You knew it was limited supplies so you have no complaint. Ed |
#22
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
"Edwin Pawlowski" writes:
"Christopher" wrote in message Where do people get the idea that Woodcraft has some obligation to have enough of a sale item in stock to supply every woodworker in America? They should have planned the sale date better. If they checked my buying history, most large purchases are the weekend after payday. All they had to do was check their sales database, do an analysis, and schedule the sale for this weekend coming up. Do folks not have credit cards they can pay off with the next paycheck? I suppose there are some people who simply do not qualify for a credit card. Brian Elfert |
#23
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
"Brian Elfert" wrote in message Do folks not have credit cards they can pay off with the next paycheck? I suppose there are some people who simply do not qualify for a credit card. Brian Elfert Aside from the fact it was humor, (and you missed that) I have more credit available than I'll ever need. I just choose to buy when the money is in my pocket. Maybe that is why I have good credit. Ed |
#24
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message ... Aside from the fact it was humor, (and you missed that) I **knew** you were fishing!!! Ok, I suspected... Ok, you sucked me in big time... |
#25
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
"mttt" wrote in message I **knew** you were fishing!!! Ok, I suspected... Ok, you sucked me in big time... Actually, I did just what you said for the router bits that were $5 each. I was not about to let that go by. Ed |
#26
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:40:52 -0600, Unisaw A100
wrote: I think we maybe oughtta consider everyone meeting at one spot. We'll all bring torches and we'll go out and storm each and every Woodcraft in the nation. We'll burn them all to the ground. That'll teach them a lesson. Crikey, Keets! You just undisputedly qualified yourself for more gov't scrutiny and are now firmly emplanted on the HSA and any other terrorist groupies lists, fer sher. You could now, with the blessing of the gov't, be held without bail and without charges for unlimited time. Ain't the Shrub's New Democracy grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat? |
#27
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
On 28-Oct-2003, Larry Jaques wrote:
You could now, with the blessing of the gov't, be held without bail and without charges for unlimited time. Based on their track record, they'll never find him. Mike |
#28
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
Larry Jaques wrote:
Crikey, Keets! You just undisputedly qualified yourself for more gov't scrutiny and are now firmly emplanted on the HSA and any other terrorist groupies lists, fer sher. You could now, with the blessing of the gov't, be held without bail and without charges for unlimited time. Ain't the Shrub's New Democracy grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat? Now wait a minute there Larry. They can't touch me. I'm the guy that's supposed to be watching you. UA100, Good 'Murican and Gub'ment spy... |
#29
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:00:25 GMT, "Michael Daly"
brought forth from the murky depths: On 28-Oct-2003, Larry Jaques wrote: You could now, with the blessing of the gov't, be held without bail and without charges for unlimited time. Based on their track record, they'll never find him. Wrong. It's alway the little guys they find. They can't see a tank rolling down the street blowing houses off their foundations but they can always find a kid with a 1" pocket knife sitting in school. Just for kicks, I walked through the security at the Oakland, CA Seattle, WA, and Anchorage, AK airports with a 9" 'weapon' in full view. They challenged a set of 1-1/4" blunt-nosed scissors in the bag next to me but overlooked the freshly sharpened pencil sticking out of my pocket, glaring at the inspector. UFR! Airport security AFTER 9/11 is more of a farce than it was before. I hope they don't jail the student who proved that their security sucked the biggest one ever. -- Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life. ---- --Unknown |
#30
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:20:27 GMT, Unisaw A100
brought forth from the murky depths: Larry Jaques wrote: Crikey, Keets! You just undisputedly qualified yourself for more gov't scrutiny and are now firmly emplanted on the HSA and any other terrorist groupies lists, fer sher. You could now, with the blessing of the gov't, be held without bail and without charges for unlimited time. Ain't the Shrub's New Democracy grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat? Now wait a minute there Larry. They can't touch me. I'm the guy that's supposed to be watching you. Tell me it ain't so, Agent ooU. UA100, Good 'Murican and Gub'ment spy... Oh, that's right. I forgot that it was -they- (our CIA) who created Khadafy (Syria), Hussein (Iraq), the Shah (Iran), and most of the other terrorists who are around today. The movie SkullsII was on yesterday. It told of the secret societies within the upper tier of educational institutions and I'll bet it was based heavily on the truth. Who IS pulling all those global strings, anyway? You's a gummint man. Fess up. -- Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life. ---- --Unknown |
#31
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
Larry Jaques wrote:
Who IS pulling all those global strings, anyway? You's a gummint man. Fess up. There's this guy. OK, I've told too much. UA100 |
#32
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
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#33
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
On 30-Oct-2003, kenR wrote:
Actually, I'm fairly certain that what they did was to set up their system to remove things from inventory when the purchase was completed, and not when the customer placed it in their cart. If they did that and the customer never completes the transaction, then the item stays out of inventory even though not sold. They'd have to design a timeout mechanism to put it back. Too long and they miss inventory - too short and the customer finds his order suddenly disappeared when he went to the bathroom. The web is stateless and that makes foolproof transaction processing difficult at best. Mike |
#34
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
I don't buy that. I cannot think of a single modern relational database that
does not have transactional processing built in ... this should not be a problem/excuse, even in a stateless environment like the web. It's done all the time. If what you say was the case, there would be no Internet banking over the web. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 9/21/03 "Michael Daly" wrote in message If they did that and the customer never completes the transaction, then the item stays out of inventory even though not sold. They'd have to design a timeout mechanism to put it back. Too long and they miss inventory - too short and the customer finds his order suddenly disappeared when he went to the bathroom. The web is stateless and that makes foolproof transaction processing difficult at best. Mike |
#35
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
Sorry, Mike ... I didn't mean that to sound so snippy. Had to work late and
still on the first cup of coffee. Mea culpa. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 9/21/03 "Swingman" wrote in message I don't buy that. I cannot think of a single modern relational database that does not have transactional processing built in ... this should not be a problem/excuse, even in a stateless environment like the web. It's done all the time. If what you say was the case, there would be no Internet banking over the web. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 9/21/03 "Michael Daly" wrote in message If they did that and the customer never completes the transaction, then the item stays out of inventory even though not sold. They'd have to design a timeout mechanism to put it back. Too long and they miss inventory - too short and the customer finds his order suddenly disappeared when he went to the bathroom. The web is stateless and that makes foolproof transaction processing difficult at best. Mike |
#36
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
On 31-Oct-2003, "Swingman" wrote:
I cannot think of a single modern relational database that does not have transactional processing built in The relational database is hooked to the web server, not the user. How does the relational database know what the user is doing if the transaction takes several _independent_ steps? Completion/rollback of a transaction has to be triggered from something - what is that? Mike |
#37
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
The mechanism varies. It could be as simple as a cookie, or a timeout, or as
complicated as a client side script and buffers. "Commit trans" is never sent to the database without a specific, verifiable trigger mechanism ... as I stated earlier, Internet banking would not be possible unless there was a mechanism to do this in a stateless environment. Hell, commerce on the Internet would be impossible if there was no mechanisms for maintaining state on a web transaction. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 9/21/03 "Michael Daly" wrote in message On 31-Oct-2003, "Swingman" wrote: I cannot think of a single modern relational database that does not have transactional processing built in The relational database is hooked to the web server, not the user. How does the relational database know what the user is doing if the transaction takes several _independent_ steps? Completion/rollback of a transaction has to be triggered from something - what is that? Mike |
#38
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Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... Oh, that's right. I forgot that it was -they- (our CIA) who created Khadafy (Syria), Hussein (Iraq), the Shah (Iran), and most of the other terrorists who are around today. Khadafy is in Syria now? Man, I new some of these guys were nomadic, but this is news - who's running Libya then? No, wait, who's on first isn't he.... Greg |
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