I'm of the firm belief Woodcraft is fully to blame as far as the
Jorgensen clamp sale incident. Many times when a retailer has a
special promotion they will tell you upfront about 'limited
quantities'. The better retailers will even state the amount of
inventory on hand. In addition they might disclaim the availability of
rainchecks. Woodcraft could have done some of the above. They could
also have backordered some or all of what they could not fulfill. I
can't help but think this promo was poorly planned or a clever ruse to
harvest email and home addresses. Yes, I was lucky enough to get my
order in and have the shipping confirmed, however I don't expect I'll
be doing any future business with them.

TomL

BWWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

You a regwar Bah Hope!!!

UA100

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:01:51 -0500, Unisaw A100
pixelated:

BWWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

You a regwar Bah Hope!!!

Been watching reruns of Indy again, have we?
(Pass me the Kate Capshaw, please.)


-------------------------------------------------------
Have you read the new book "What Would Machiavelli Do?"
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Dynamic, Interactive Websites!
--------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 22:52:00 GMT, Larry Jaques
Crawled out of the shop and said. . .:

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:01:51 -0500, Unisaw A100
pixelated:

BWWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

You a regwar Bah Hope!!!

Been watching reruns of Indy again, have we?
(Pass me the Kate Capshaw, please.)




sorry.,but it seems she's busy sittin on JOAT's lap, and making quite
a fuss about it.

i think i see karen allen over there somewhere. . .

Sat, Oct 18, 2003, 8:35pm (EDT-1)
newsgroups-AT-farmvalleywoodworks-DOT-com (Traves=A0W.=A0Coppock)
claims:
sorry.,but it seems she's busy sittin on JOAT's lap, and making quite a
fuss about it.

Sorry, you've got me confused with someone else. She's not really
my cuppa, but if she did sit on my lap, she wouldn't be squirming
because she wanted to get away.

JOAT
I'd be happy to help you out. Which way did you come in?

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 17 Oct 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:44:36 GMT, TomL wrote:

I'm of the firm belief Woodcraft is fully to blame as far as the
Jorgensen clamp sale incident.

What incident? Someone didn't act quickly enough in a special
circumstance to get what they wanted? Is Woodcraft (or any other
retailer) under some requirement to stock all the inventory that
everyone could possibly want?

Many times when a retailer has a special promotion they will
tell you upfront about 'limited quantities'.

Please. Is there a woodworker on the planet who didn't see the frenzy
at the two other large retailers before Woodcraft did theirs? Is there
a woodworker on the planet who wasn't aware of the Jorgensen promotion
fully two months before Woodcraft's sale? Besides that, knowing that
quantities are limited falls in the same "Useless Information"
category described below.

The better retailers will even state the amount of inventory on hand.

And that would help the would-be buyer how? Presumably he has no idea
of how many other people are buying and in what quantity. Under the
category "Useless Information" I would have to rank that pretty high.

In addition they might disclaim the availability of rainchecks.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the default value of
"rainchecks" is YES anywhere. Sure, retailers MAY issue them, but they
are not required to nor are they required to advertise that they do or
do not issue them.

Woodcraft could have done some of the above.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda. If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

They could also have backordered some or all of what they could not fulfill.

Obviously there are some woodworkers on the planet who don't
understand business, who aren't aware of Jorgensen's promotion, and
who aren't familiar with who orders what, how much, and when. The
vendors had to place their order for the specially priced Jorgies in
the Spring. The production run for that price point was limited
(apparently to several hundred thousand), thus no back orders could be
made at that price.

I can't help but think this promo was poorly planned...

Well, Jorgensen did the promo, so how can Woodcraft be blamed (if
blame is the word) for that.

...or a clever ruse to harvest email and home addresses.

Were they acting alone or was there another harvester on the grassy
knoll?

Yes, I was lucky enough to get my order in and have the shipping confirmed,

Then what's your beef?

however I don't expect I'll be doing any future business with them.

I imagine Woodcraft will be relieved they don't have to put up with a
whiny customer who successfully takes advantage of a limited time
special offer and is so ****ed off at his success that he won't be
shopping there anymore.


LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

"TomL" wrote in message
...
I'm of the firm belief Woodcraft is fully to blame as far as the
Jorgensen clamp sale incident.

What incident? Selling out of a much sought after product that was less
than half priced?

Many times when a retailer has a special promotion they will tell you
upfront about 'limited
quantities'. The better retailers will even state the amount of
inventory on hand.

Yeah they normally tell you 1 or 2 at this special price. Seldom do thay
say that they only have 2000 to sell.

In addition they might disclaim the availability of rainchecks. Woodcraft
could have done some of the above.

IIRC they indicated WHILE quantities last.

They could also have backordered some or all of what they could not
fulfill. I
can't help but think this promo was poorly planned or a clever ruse to
harvest email and home addresses.

Amazon and Woodworker Source had the same sale with the same results.

Most likely they were able to purchace or only purchased these clamps at a
one time price reduction that they passed on to the customers which they
probably did not have to do.

Yes, I was lucky enough to get my order in and have the shipping confirmed,
however I don't expect I'll
be doing any future business with them.

That sounds pathetic. You buy a good product at dirt cheap prices and get
the product but are not going to buy from them again because they ran out
and some people did not get any clamps. So you let the regular customers
pay the higher prices and you complain???

"Leon" wrote in message om...
"TomL" wrote in message
...
I'm of the firm belief Woodcraft is fully to blame as far as the
Jorgensen clamp sale incident.

What incident? Selling out of a much sought after product that was less
than half priced?



The issue for me was not that they sold out or didn't issue rainchecks
etc... At issue is the fact that they confirmed a sale and then
backed out. I was confirmed for 12 clamps and am actually getting 8.
Where Woodcraft failed was in estimating the response this would
create and properly adjusting their internet systems accordingly. It
sure appears they didn't have enough computing power to keep up
managing their inventory vs. sales. IMO, they should acknowledge
this and fulfill those that received confirmations from them.
Cheers,
cc

(James Cubby Culbertson) wrote:

"Leon" wrote in message om...
"TomL" wrote in message
...
I'm of the firm belief Woodcraft is fully to blame as far as the
Jorgensen clamp sale incident.

What incident? Selling out of a much sought after product that was less
than half priced?



The issue for me was not that they sold out or didn't issue rainchecks
etc... At issue is the fact that they confirmed a sale and then
backed out. I was confirmed for 12 clamps and am actually getting 8.
Where Woodcraft failed was in estimating the response this would
create and properly adjusting their internet systems accordingly. It
sure appears they didn't have enough computing power to keep up
managing their inventory vs. sales. IMO, they should acknowledge
this and fulfill those that received confirmations from them.
Cheers,
cc

While I am put off by most of the whining here, I think you make some
very valid points.
--
Alex
Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

In article ,
says...

....

The issue for me was not that they sold out or didn't issue rainchecks
etc... At issue is the fact that they confirmed a sale and then
backed out. I was confirmed for 12 clamps and am actually getting 8.
Where Woodcraft failed was in estimating the response this would
create and properly adjusting their internet systems accordingly. It
sure appears they didn't have enough computing power to keep up
managing their inventory vs. sales. IMO, they should acknowledge
this and fulfill those that received confirmations from them.
Cheers,
cc

This is precisely why I was ****ed off. I had an order confirmation
number in hand, and therefore skipped a chance to visit the local
Woodcraft the following morning. Then I got an email "shipping
notification" -- no ****: that's what it said -- that gave *zero* as the
number of clamps being shipped.

That's no way to run a railroad. Unless your aim is to reduce
ridership. (And I think I'll drive, next time.)

Cheers,
Abe



--
A numeral would be more efficient than spelling out "ONE" in an email
addy, don't you think?

Amazon and Woodworker Source had the same sale with the same results.


This of course brings up a good point. If every major retailer has this
sale, all those who refuse to do business with woodcraft will, of course, be
refusing to do business with any of these retailers. I guess they will
limit their shopping to Rockler, since they apparently do not carry Cabinet
Masters. I guess they could also become hard and fast Harbor Freight
customers. ;-)

Cheers,
Eric

In article ,
says...
Amazon and Woodworker Source had the same sale with the same results.


This of course brings up a good point. If every major retailer has this
sale,

... and somehow Woodcraft did not learn from others' experience

all those who refuse to do business with woodcraft will, of course, be
refusing to do business with any of these retailers. I guess they will
limit their shopping to Rockler, since they apparently do not carry Cabinet
Masters. I guess they could also become hard and fast Harbor Freight
customers. ;-)


The problem here for Woodcraft is that it doesn't matter *why*
customers are PO'd at them, the only thing that matters is that the
customers are PO'd. Were a sufficient number of woodworkers irked
enough to significantly affect future Woodcraft sales? Only time will
tell. There are certainly sufficient alternate suppliers such as
Woodworker's Supply, Belews, Grizzly, etc. that there are choices that
offer value for the money. To paraphrase a trite term, "the customer
may not always be right, but they are the customer." Woodcraft could
certainly have taken advantage of knowledge gained by other retailers'
results with this sale; their promotions were advertised and although
the "while supplies last" disclaimer may have been present, I don't
think most Woodcraft customers expected that they would be dealing with
a "Who" concert sellout type of phenomenon.

No, I didn't get shut out, and no, I don't have any of these clamps
ordered, I think that it might be somewhat unrealistic for some of the
expectations that were expressed in these threads, but I also think
Woodcraft screwed up royally as well, especially since they had the
benefit of other retailers' experiences in this regard.


Cheers,
Eric

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:30:09 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

This of course brings up a good point. If every major retailer has this
sale,

... and somehow Woodcraft did not learn from others' experience

See my answer to this below.

Woodcraft could certainly have taken advantage of knowledge gained
by other retailers' results with this sale; their promotions were advertised
and although the "while supplies last" disclaimer may have been present,

According to the Marketing Manager from American Clamp, each of the
vendors who were going to commit to the promotion had to place their
orders in the Spring. Thus no retailer, including those yet to have a
sale (if any, now), had an opportunity to go back and order more based
on the previous sellers' experience.

I don't think most Woodcraft customers expected that they would be
dealing with a "Who" concert sellout type of phenomenon.

Nor did Woodcraft.

but I also think Woodcraft screwed up royally as well, especially since
they had the benefit of other retailers' experiences in this regard.

See above. They may have had the benefit, but they didn't have the
opportunity. I don't think you could be any more wrong.

LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

In article ,
says...
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:30:09 GMT, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

This of course brings up a good point. If every major retailer has this
sale,

... and somehow Woodcraft did not learn from others' experience

See my answer to this below.

Woodcraft could certainly have taken advantage of knowledge gained
by other retailers' results with this sale; their promotions were advertised
and although the "while supplies last" disclaimer may have been present,

According to the Marketing Manager from American Clamp, each of the
vendors who were going to commit to the promotion had to place their
orders in the Spring. Thus no retailer, including those yet to have a
sale (if any, now), had an opportunity to go back and order more based
on the previous sellers' experience.


That may be true, but they did have the opportunity to see how the
sale was received and perhaps revise their approach to minimize
potential problems.

I don't think most Woodcraft customers expected that they would be
dealing with a "Who" concert sellout type of phenomenon.

Nor did Woodcraft.


But Woodcraft saw what happened to the other retailers whose sales
occurred before Woodcraft's own sale. To blindly continue with plans as
formulated smacks of a rigid, non-adaptable corporation.


but I also think Woodcraft screwed up royally as well, especially since
they had the benefit of other retailers' experiences in this regard.

See above. They may have had the benefit, but they didn't have the
opportunity. I don't think you could be any more wrong.


What do you mean they didn't have the opportunity? Their sale
occurred after the other sales, they saw the demand. Did they have the
opportunity to buy more supply? No. Does that mean they had no other
alternative other than to march blindly on with their advertising
campaign and prominent "Huge Jorgensen Sale" banner on their web page?
Absolutely. Plans give a direction and purpose to corporate efforts,
blindly following the plan after new information is available is a
recipe for disaster.

Frankly, it doesn't matter whether I'm wrong or not, you can portray
Woodcraft as a victim of circumstance -- if customers stay away, it
doesn't help them. Maybe this is all a tempest in a teapot and WC
didn't hurt their overall rating in most customers' eyes. If so, then
no big deal. The problem is that it doesn't take too many irate
customers to significantly affect market share. I'm merely pointing out
that Woodcraft did have options and opportunities to learn from others'
and chose not to.


LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:44:36 GMT, TomL wrote:

I'm of the firm belief Woodcraft is fully to blame as far as the
Jorgensen clamp sale incident. Many times when a retailer has a
special promotion they will tell you upfront about 'limited
quantities'. The better retailers will even state the amount of
inventory on hand. In addition they might disclaim the availability of
rainchecks. Woodcraft could have done some of the above. They could
also have backordered some or all of what they could not fulfill. I
can't help but think this promo was poorly planned or a clever ruse to
harvest email and home addresses. Yes, I was lucky enough to get my
order in and have the shipping confirmed, however I don't expect I'll
be doing any future business with them.

TomL

I can't wait until the next frenzy, except I'm waiting for the K-Body
Bessey stampede.

Phisherman wrote:

I can't wait until the next frenzy, except I'm waiting for the K-Body
Bessey stampede.

Wasn't that stampede last year?

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

TomL wrote in message . ..
I'm of the firm belief Woodcraft is fully to blame as far as the
Jorgensen clamp sale incident. Many times when a retailer has a
special promotion they will tell you upfront about 'limited
quantities'. The better retailers will even state the amount of
inventory on hand. In addition they might disclaim the availability of
rainchecks. Woodcraft could have done some of the above. They could
also have backordered some or all of what they could not fulfill. I
can't help but think this promo was poorly planned or a clever ruse to
harvest email and home addresses. Yes, I was lucky enough to get my
order in and have the shipping confirmed, however I don't expect I'll
be doing any future business with them.

TomL

Tom, they make plenty of money. They don't need your stupid business.
Are you so arrogant to think they care about you? You stupid jerk.


"Life aint nothin' but twinks and chinks!" (Sexy gay young men and
Chinese food!) -JOAT (Jerk-Off All Twinks)

You never get laid, do you?
"TomL" wrote in message
...
I'm of the firm belief Woodcraft is fully to blame as far as the
Jorgensen clamp sale incident. Many times when a retailer has a
special promotion they will tell you upfront about 'limited
quantities'. The better retailers will even state the amount of
inventory on hand. In addition they might disclaim the availability of
rainchecks. Woodcraft could have done some of the above. They could
also have backordered some or all of what they could not fulfill. I
can't help but think this promo was poorly planned or a clever ruse to
harvest email and home addresses. Yes, I was lucky enough to get my
order in and have the shipping confirmed, however I don't expect I'll
be doing any future business with them.

TomL

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:44:36 GMT, TomL Crawled out of
the shop and said. . .:

I'm of the firm belief Woodcraft is fully to blame as far as the
Jorgensen clamp sale incident. Many times when a retailer has a
special promotion they will tell you upfront about 'limited
quantities'. The better retailers will even state the amount of
inventory on hand. In addition they might disclaim the availability of
rainchecks. Woodcraft could have done some of the above. They could
also have backordered some or all of what they could not fulfill. I
can't help but think this promo was poorly planned or a clever ruse to
harvest email and home addresses. Yes, I was lucky enough to get my
order in and have the shipping confirmed, however I don't expect I'll
be doing any future business with them.

TomL

i read the initial web page that was up before the "sale" started, and
i seem to recall it said to the effect of, "limited to stock on hand,
no rain checks."

i saw nothing wrong with what took place, and lets face it. EVERY
wooddorker on the face of the earth knew about this promo at least a
week ago.

even if they had 5000 clamps on hand. 1000 wooddorkers each buying 5
clamps,,,, you get my meaning

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:38:18 -0500, Traves W. Coppock
newsgroups-AT-farmvalleywoodworks-DOT-com wrote:
... lets face it. EVERY wooddorker on the face of the earth knew about this promo at least a week ago.

Steady on there, chaps. Unless you believe that the world is flat and
is bounded by the coastline of N.America, that's a bit of a
contentious statement.

"Rob Bowman" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:38:18 -0500, Traves W. Coppock
newsgroups-AT-farmvalleywoodworks-DOT-com wrote:
... lets face it. EVERY wooddorker on the face of the earth knew about
this promo at least a week ago.

Steady on there, chaps. Unless you believe that the world is flat and
is bounded by the coastline of N.America, that's a bit of a
contentious statement.


It's not???? ;-o But, but, but... That means the World Series isn't really
the WORLD Series. You mean there are pro baseball who don't get a chance to
compete in the World Series!!!!????

Cheers,
Eric

It's not???? ;-o But, but, but... That means the World Series isn't really
the WORLD Series. You mean there are pro baseball who don't get a chance to
compete in the World Series!!!!????

Actually, we play a great deal of baseball here in England - except we
call it Rounders and leave it to the ladies. This allows the men to
get on with making sawdust and playing Rugby (a bit like American
Football but without all the stoppages and padding).

Cheers,
Rob.

"Rob Bowman" wrote in message


Actually, we play a great deal of baseball here in England - except we
call it Rounders and leave it to the ladies.

We leave "drinking tea" to ladies also. ;~)

Traves W. Coppock newsgroups-AT-farmvalleywoodworks-DOT-com wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:44:36 GMT, TomL Crawled out of
the shop and said. . .:

I'm of the firm belief Woodcraft is fully to blame as far as the
Jorgensen clamp sale incident. Many times when a retailer has a
special promotion they will tell you upfront about 'limited
quantities'. The better retailers will even state the amount of
inventory on hand. In addition they might disclaim the availability of
rainchecks. Woodcraft could have done some of the above. They could
also have backordered some or all of what they could not fulfill. I
can't help but think this promo was poorly planned or a clever ruse to
harvest email and home addresses. Yes, I was lucky enough to get my
order in and have the shipping confirmed, however I don't expect I'll
be doing any future business with them.

TomL

i read the initial web page that was up before the "sale" started, and
i seem to recall it said to the effect of, "limited to stock on hand,
no rain checks."

i saw nothing wrong with what took place, and lets face it. EVERY
wooddorker on the face of the earth knew about this promo at least a
week ago.

No Woodcraft near me and I am not on their mailing list so the first I
heard of it was when the complaints were posted on the Wreck.

even if they had 5000 clamps on hand. 1000 wooddorkers each buying 5
clamps,,,, you get my meaning

I think the complaint (at least the initial one) was that they placed
orders that were confirmed, THEN later learned that they were reduced
or cancelled. Hearing that makes me learing of shopping there too.
It's one thing to visit a store and find that they are out of the sale
item, it's another thing to visit the store, get your 5 clamps, then
have a store employee take them away from you when you are heading for
the door.

-Chris

"Chris" wrote in message

I think the complaint (at least the initial one) was that they placed
orders that were confirmed, THEN later learned that they were reduced
or cancelled. Hearing that makes me learing of shopping there too.
It's one thing to visit a store and find that they are out of the sale
item, it's another thing to visit the store, get your 5 clamps, then
have a store employee take them away from you when you are heading for
the door.

-Chris

Was the confirmation that the order was received? Or that they had
everything and it would be shipped? I'm amazed at how many people can say
what SHOULD have been done and don't know a damned thing about how their web
site and ordering software works. It can probably handle multiple orders
being taken. After that, I have no idea nor do the other posters. We all
know that limited stock means just that.

I've shopped at Woodcraft and they have never stopped me at the door and
taken merchandise back from me. They did send me a bunch of router bits at
$5 a pop. great deal.

Where the hell were all you guys when the Red Sox were in trouble in the
8th? Did you call and make your recommendations in the 6th or 7th to
prevent problems?
Ed

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:


"Chris" wrote in message

I think the complaint (at least the initial one) was that they placed
orders that were confirmed, THEN later learned that they were reduced
or cancelled. Hearing that makes me learing of shopping there too.
It's one thing to visit a store and find that they are out of the sale
item, it's another thing to visit the store, get your 5 clamps, then
have a store employee take them away from you when you are heading for
the door.

-Chris

Was the confirmation that the order was received? Or that they had
everything and it would be shipped? I'm amazed at how many people can say
what SHOULD have been done and don't know a damned thing about how their web
site and ordering software works. It can probably handle multiple orders
being taken. After that, I have no idea nor do the other posters. We all
know that limited stock means just that.

You are on target there. I got a "confirmation" screen, but read it to
see that each item showed status as "pending approval" or some such
language, so I went to bed not knowing whether I had bought clamps or
not, despite having the order confirmed. I was nervous when I woke up
to the same message, and suspected that there might be a yet-to-come
process of allocating clamps based on the time-stamp on the orders. So
I never "counted my chickens" until I got the shipping confirmation.

Now some say they got a confirmation, and a shipping of 0 quantity
notice, which does sound like a Woodcraft screw-up. But Does anybody
realize that we are only hearing one side of that story, and there are
a host of ways the poster _might_ have screwed it up himself. Hard to
get too bent out of shape about something we know so little about.

PS, while I am happy with Woodcraft on this one, they still rank
second in B&M (to Highland Hardware) and second in online (to Amazon)
preferences for me (although not as distant seconds as before).
--
Alex
Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

Ed asks:

Where the hell were all you guys when the Red Sox were in trouble in the
8th? Did you call and make your recommendations in the 6th or 7th to
prevent problems?

Made my recommendations to t'other team in the 6th, though they paid little
attention--really can't yell that loud, though my wife might argue. Anyway, my
guys won again last night.

Charlie Self

"Middle age is when your age starts to show around your middle."
Bob Hope

"Chris" wrote in message
om...


It's one thing to visit a store and find that they are out of the sale
item, it's another thing to visit the store, get your 5 clamps, then
have a store employee take them away from you when you are heading for
the door.

-Chris

Huh? No one had their clamps in their hands and had them taken away.
Buyers may have been told that the clamps were in stock and were later told
that there actually were no more clamps. "That" would be like visiting a
store and asking for 5 clamps and someone looking in the stockroom finds
that there no more on hand to sale.

TomL wrote:
I'm of the firm belief Woodcraft is fully to blame as far as the
Jorgensen clamp sale incident. Many times when a retailer has a
special promotion they will tell you upfront about 'limited
quantities'. The better retailers will even state the amount of
inventory on hand. In addition they might disclaim the availability of
rainchecks. Woodcraft could have done some of the above. They could
also have backordered some or all of what they could not fulfill. I
can't help but think this promo was poorly planned or a clever ruse to
harvest email and home addresses. Yes, I was lucky enough to get my
order in and have the shipping confirmed, however I don't expect I'll
be doing any future business with them.

TomL


I was happy to get the 12 clamps I did at my local Woodcraft. I was a bit
miffed that the email I received said limit of 4 per sze, and then when I
got to the store they limited it to 2 per size. No bother, called a friend
in the area, and he went in and bought me another "set" of 6 clamps. Didn't
feel bad about doing this.

If I'd wanted more, I had more friends I could have gotten to buy them for
me, but I held to the 4 per size per person. Used em this weekend to glue
up a cabinet for the basement. Loved them!!!