[B A R R Y]

I've posted over and over on this forum about my success with ML
Campbell Ultrastar water based lacquer.

This week, I've been dealing with a seemingly unsolvable fisheye
problem, so I've lost a lot of faith in the product. No combo of
additive, barrier coat, etc... seems to work well, so the trim will be
finished (hopefully FINALLY!) with Sherwin Williams Fast Dry Oil
Varnish tomorrow. Tonight, I applied what I hope to be the last coat
of barrier Seal Coat, under the SW.

Next stop... Quick Kleen.

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** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
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[B A R R Y]

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 23:59:28 -0700, "
wrote:

I assume this is a new finish since it is trim. Did you sand it to
prep yourself?

Yeah.

Two passes through a Performax, last sanding with a Mirka-loaded ROS,
scuffed with Mirka PSA on a PC finish sander. This is all the s4s
section of built-up base and door trim. At least it isn't a crazy
profile or doors!


Who handled the trim? Was it delivered or are you on site?

I picked it up at my usual hardwood supplier.


the old fashioned way. Strip/sand/start over. I do know that MLC has
a fisheye reducer for this product, FWIW.

I have it and used it on the re-do.

Is it possible that the MLC material was not up to snuff? Could it
have been old, or previously opened and improperly resealed?

That is a possibility. The can was originally cracked in July (I date
my lids), but I used the same can for the first coat.

As a
tandem thought, does your supplier handle the material properly on his
end? Sitting in a really hot/cold warehouse for a length of time will
change almost any of this stuff.

The warehouse is climate controlled and pretty much 65-70F year round.
It's the basement of a busy paint store.


Generally for me, getting rid of the fisheyes means strip off the
finish in the affected areas and clean well. I seal with a 1/2 lb
spray coat of shellac put on with the 1mm aircap and start over again.

The weird part is that this stuff is coated as follows: stain / Seal
Coat / US / US. Coat #1 of US was excellent, coat #2 went awry.
Next stop... Quick Kleen.

You might think about calling them anyway. As a new cutomer they will
send you a quart free as well as a book of their products. At least
you could give it a whirl and see what you think. Always good to have
another tool in the belt.

I ordered a quart each of the gloss, satin, and semi-gloss fast-dry
poly, and some flow enhancer and fisheye killer to play around with.

Last night, I sanded and re-Seal Coated everything. This afternoon,
I'll SW Fast-Dry, as I'm running low on time. I've never had that
stuff fish-eye on anything, so maybe I can move on. I have 22 sheets
of sub-floor to install this morning in a barn conversion.

The idea of grabbing a fresh supply of US is a good one. I also have
some Semi-Gloss and Gloss on hand, along with the suspect Dull US. I
can try the different cans on test panels, under identical
troubleshooting conditions.


I really like using non-flammable, way less stinky, materials, so
here's to sorting it out.

Thanks for the tips.

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** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
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[[email protected]]

On Sep 29, 5:32 am, B A R R Y wrote:

SNIP of painful reading...

The weird part is that this stuff is coated as follows: stain / Seal
Coat / US / US. Coat #1 of US was excellent, coat #2 went awry.

How strange. I wonder if it could be spray environment related, or
something in the gun.

Otherwise... as the old boy says... I got nothin'. As suspected, I
knew you would be all over this.

Last night, I sanded and re-Seal Coated everything. This afternoon,
I'll SW Fast-Dry, as I'm running low on time. I've never had that stuff fish-eye on anything, so maybe I can move on.

I know between that and Enduro, they are supposed to be the kings of
wb finish. You know Roger Phelps NEVER used anything else once he
started with it and he told me he refinished something like 300
kitchens with it. He was horrified that I still used solvent based
materials.


I really like using non-flammable, way less stinky, materials, so here's to sorting it out.

Amen. One day in out lifetime all that will be available outside the
factory environment will be water borne, and as you know I am dragging
my feet to get to it. But there are a lot of times when the water
borne would be a helluva lot more convenient.

I would be interested to see what you think of the KwickKleen stuff.
I hope you post your thoughts.

Hope this all works out for you and you meet your deadline. Good luck.

Robert

[Mike Marlow]

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
I've posted over and over on this forum about my success with ML
Campbell Ultrastar water based lacquer.

This week, I've been dealing with a seemingly unsolvable fisheye
problem, so I've lost a lot of faith in the product. No combo of
additive, barrier coat, etc... seems to work well, so the trim will be
finished (hopefully FINALLY!) with Sherwin Williams Fast Dry Oil
Varnish tomorrow. Tonight, I applied what I hope to be the last coat
of barrier Seal Coat, under the SW.


Don't forsake a product over fisheye Barry. Fisheye comes about for only
one reason - contamination. It's not the product. Somehow, you have a
contaminate at work. It can be water or oil in the gun or the lines, it can
be silicone, it can be a lot of things. Some times the contaminates come up
out of the surface you're painting - they are native to the material and
incompatible with the finish.

To tackle fisheye, let the coat flash, and then apply a couple of very light
coats just over the fish eye areas. Gently build up the areas. Once they
bridge, you can go back to normal spray techniques.

--

-Mike-

[Leon]

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
I've posted over and over on this forum about my success with ML
Campbell Ultrastar water based lacquer.

This week, I've been dealing with a seemingly unsolvable fisheye
problem, so I've lost a lot of faith in the product. No combo of
additive, barrier coat, etc... seems to work well, so the trim will be
finished (hopefully FINALLY!) with Sherwin Williams Fast Dry Oil
Varnish tomorrow. Tonight, I applied what I hope to be the last coat
of barrier Seal Coat, under the SW.

Next stop... Quick Kleen.

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** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

Have you switched to a new cleaner? Or has the cleaner become contaminated?

[B A R R Y]

On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:23:45 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:


Don't forsake a product over fisheye Barry. Fisheye comes about for only
one reason - contamination. It's not the product. Somehow, you have a
contaminate at work.

Absolutely. This product is actually relatively easy to fisheye,
easier than NC, but I've cured it before. I just couldn't get it
right, and I got frustrated.

On the other hand, GREAT NEWS!!! Problem Solved!

I have two identical Fuji guns, stored in different containers. One
is used for solvent, the other for WB.

I was using the wrong gun... Whooops! G

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** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
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[[email protected]]

On Sep 29, 4:02 pm, B A R R Y wrote:

On the other hand, GREAT NEWS!!! Problem Solved!
I have two identical Fuji guns, stored in different containers. One is used for solvent, the other for WB.

I was using the wrong gun... Whooops! G

Alright, Barry! Glad to hear the problem is now history.

Just as a suggestion, clean out the gun you have been shooting that
nasty water borne stuff out of as normal, then shoot some anhydrous
alcohol through it to take out the rest of the moisture before solvent
finish goes back in.

Although frustrating as hell, I am glad to see the problem was an easy
fix.

Robert

[B A R R Y]

On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 17:33:13 -0700, "
wrote:

Just as a suggestion, clean out the gun you have been shooting that
nasty water borne stuff out of as normal, then shoot some anhydrous
alcohol through it to take out the rest of the moisture before solvent
finish goes back in.

I already did, following Jewitt's published "WB to Solvent" switch
procedure. Now I won't shoot myself in the foot next time I use
solvent stuff. G


Although frustrating as hell, I am glad to see the problem was an easy
fix.

As usual, the cave-man dumbass factor was the cause.

That's what was really driving me nuts. I totally overlooked the fact
that I had grabbed the wrong gun. But, as you and Mike pointed out,
contamination is contamination. G

In the process of finding the answer, I used another sheen of on-hand
US, eliminating the can of "dull" product, which was sprayed onto
super-clean plate glass, which eliminated the wood. When they screwed
up as well, I went into my spray gear tote for the gun cleaning tools
and supplies, where I found the correct gun.

Thanks again, Robert and Mike!

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** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
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