I thought you might find this interesting....

TMT


Seattle Man Gets Two Years for eBay Fraud Robert McMillan, IDG News
Service
Sat Sep 8, 8:00 PM ET



A Seattle man has been sentenced to two years in prison for selling
computers and cameras on eBay but never actually delivering the goods.


Over a four-year period, Jordan Dias, 40, collected more than US
$94,000 from victims who thought they were purchasing items from a
legitimate seller, the U.S. Department of Justice said Friday in a
statement.


Dias, who defrauded more than 100 people via this scam will now have
to pay more than $73,000 in restitution, and serve three years parole
after his 24-month sentence.


This type of Internet auction fraud is the most frequently reported
type of online crime, according to the U.S. Federal Bureau of
Investigation's Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3), a clearing-
house where consumers can file online crime complaints.


In 2006, the last year for which data is available, the IC3 logged
more than 207,000 complaints relating to auction fraud. That amounted
to about 45 percent of all complaints received.

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
ups.com...
I thought you might find this interesting....

TMT


Seattle Man Gets Two Years for eBay Fraud Robert McMillan, IDG News
Service
Sat Sep 8, 8:00 PM ET



A Seattle man has been sentenced to two years in prison for selling
computers and cameras on eBay but never actually delivering the goods.


His feedback was still probably over 90%....based on sham transactions,
etc..

thats why I use craigslist !!!!!!!!!!
"ATP*" wrote in message
...

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
ups.com...
I thought you might find this interesting....

TMT


Seattle Man Gets Two Years for eBay Fraud Robert McMillan, IDG News
Service
Sat Sep 8, 8:00 PM ET



A Seattle man has been sentenced to two years in prison for selling
computers and cameras on eBay but never actually delivering the goods.


His feedback was still probably over 90%....based on sham transactions,
etc..

On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 17:20:48 -0700, "Bob in Phx"
wrote:

thats why I use craigslist !!!!!!!!!!

My experience with craigslist (as a seller) has had a pretty good
percentage of responses in the area of "I'll send you a cashiers
check for a whole bunch of money, you cash it, pay the shipper, and
refund the difference".

Point being, don't blame the venue for fraudulent behavior of
individuals.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

On Sep 9, 6:10 pm, "ATP*" wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

ups.com...I thought you might find this interesting....

TMT

Seattle Man Gets Two Years for eBay Fraud Robert McMillan, IDG News
Service
Sat Sep 8, 8:00 PM ET

A Seattle man has been sentenced to two years in prison for selling
computers and cameras on eBay but never actually delivering the goods.

His feedback was still probably over 90%....based on sham transactions,
etc..

And likely a Power Seller.

TMT

On Sep 9, 9:46 pm, Tom Veatch wrote:

My experience with craigslist (as a seller) has had a pretty good
percentage of responses in the area of "I'll send you a cashiers
check for a whole bunch of money, you cash it, pay the shipper, and
refund the difference".

Point being, don't blame the venue for fraudulent behavior of
individuals.

I agree with you in principle, but at the same time do believe that
the structure of the venue isn't very helpful. To take an extreme
analogy, a poorly lit street is a much more attractive venue for an
assault than a brightly lit mall.

"GoForward" wrote in message
I agree with you in principle, but at the same time do believe that
the structure of the venue isn't very helpful. To take an extreme
analogy, a poorly lit street is a much more attractive venue for an
assault than a brightly lit mall.

Hah! You haven't been around any of our malls lately. At least in a poorly
lit street you have a greater potential for hiding.

And likely a Power Seller.

TMT

In eBay's defense (and I'm not affilliated with them in anyway other
than as a buyer), about
a year ago, I had a problem with someone not sending my something. Got
resolved quickly
enough and got money posted to my PayPal account. That was pretty good
in my
estimate. I always pay via PayPal and if someone doesn't accept it, I
don't bid. That simple.
To date, I've purchased over $600 of stuff via eBay and have never
been stiffed other
than this one time.

MJ Wallace

According to :

[ ... ]

estimate. I always pay via PayPal and if someone doesn't accept it, I
don't bid. That simple.

Interesting. If someone accepts *only* PayPal, then I don't
bid. That simple again.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sep 10, 9:19 pm, (DoN. Nichols) wrote:

Interesting. If someone accepts *only* PayPal, then I don't
bid. That simple again.

Enjoy,
DoN.

Same here.

On Sep 10, 12:22 pm, "Upscale" wrote:

Hah! You haven't been around any of our malls lately. ....

Sounds like it's a good thing that I haven't been :-)

"DoN. Nichols" wrote

Interesting. If someone accepts *only* PayPal, then I don't
bid. That simple again.

Enjoy,
DoN.

Ditto. Or if they have a two line description, then an eight page rant
about non paying bidders, and hoops the buyer must jump through
.....................

Steve

On Sep 10, 10:05 pm, GoForward wrote:
On Sep 10, 9:19 pm, (DoN. Nichols) wrote:



Interesting. If someone accepts *only* PayPal, then I don't
bid. That simple again.

Enjoy,
DoN.

Same here.

Why NOT Paypal?

You are open to more risk if you pay by MO or CC or personal check.

TMT

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
According to :

[ ... ]

estimate. I always pay via PayPal and if someone doesn't accept it, I
don't bid. That simple.

Interesting. If someone accepts *only* PayPal, then I don't
bid. That simple again.

Enjoy,
DoN.

You're not alone, DoN. I refuse to do business through PayPal.

Harold

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
According to :

[ ... ]

estimate. I always pay via PayPal and if someone doesn't accept it, I
don't bid. That simple.
Interesting. If someone accepts *only* PayPal, then I don't
bid. That simple again.

Enjoy,
DoN.

You're not alone, DoN. I refuse to do business through PayPal.

Harold



G'day all,
I think that I'm missing something here, why would you not use Paypal??

regards
John

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
According to :

[ ... ]

estimate. I always pay via PayPal and if someone doesn't accept it, I
don't bid. That simple.

Interesting. If someone accepts *only* PayPal, then I don't
bid. That simple again.

Enjoy,
DoN.

You're not alone, DoN. I refuse to do business through PayPal.

Harold


Me too, but that doesn't stop the thousands of times they've closed
or limited the account I've never had. ;-)


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
"

You're not alone, DoN. I refuse to do business through PayPal.


Add one more.

John B wrote:

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
According to :

[ ... ]

estimate. I always pay via PayPal and if someone doesn't accept it, I
don't bid. That simple.
Interesting. If someone accepts *only* PayPal, then I don't
bid. That simple again.

Enjoy,
DoN.

You're not alone, DoN. I refuse to do business through PayPal.

Harold



G'day all,
I think that I'm missing something here, why would you not use Paypal??

regards
John


Take a look at:
http://www.gripe2ed.com/scoop/?op=search&offset=6&old_count=30&type=story&sectio n=&string=paypal&search=Search&count=30




--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
| "DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
| ...
|| According to :
||
|| [ ... ]
||
||| estimate. I always pay via PayPal and if someone doesn't accept
||| it, I don't bid. That simple.
||
|| Interesting. If someone accepts *only* PayPal, then I don't
|| bid. That simple again.
|
| You're not alone, DoN. I refuse to do business through PayPal.

Interesting. I just (yesterday) re-implemented a PayPal shopping page
at the request of a Swedish customer for whom payment in US$ would
have been an inconvenience.

Also interesting - I haven't ever had a problem with a personal check
(knocks on wood)...

....and I don't sell on eBay.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:15:09 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote:
On Sep 10, 10:05 pm, GoForward wrote:
On Sep 10, 9:19 pm, (DoN. Nichols) wrote:

Interesting. If someone accepts *only* PayPal, then I don't
bid. That simple again.

Same here.

Why NOT Paypal?

You are open to more risk if you pay by MO or CC or personal check.

Because when you set up PayPal they have a direct line to access
your linked bank account - their test is to make an under $1 transfer
out (like $0.12) and you tell them the exact amount as a password.

But PayPal isn't a "bank" so they don't have to follow the same
rules about handling your money. Unless they've changed things, you
can not get someone from PayPal on the phone to solve a problem even
if they just tapped you for $10K, all contact is by E-mail and they
take their time responding. If they decide they don't owe you the
money in dispute, you aren't getting it.

If a fraudster puts in a huge payment request they can clean out
your regular linked bank/checking account - and then can take their
sweet time returning the money. Or if the other guy lies better than
you can tell the truth, they can let him keep it.

Unless there have been major changes, the only safe way to use
PayPal is to have your bank set up a totally separate firewalled
checking account for PayPal to access - no automatic overdraft
protection, no externally initiated drafts or transfers from your
other accounts. You only leave $10 in "the PayPal checking account"
until you make a purchase, then you fund that account with the
purchase amount manually before closing the purchase.

I don't feel like messing around like that. Too much to go wrong.

-- Bruce --

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 10:50:15 -0700, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
I thought you might find this interesting....

Seattle Man Gets Two Years for eBay Fraud Robert McMillan, IDG News
Service
Sat Sep 8, 8:00 PM ET

I wonder if that's the same guy who ripped me off for a hard drive?
I had bought a 40 GB and he shipped a 15 GB or something. I complained,
he said, "send it back, we'll send you the right one", I sent it back,
and never got anything back. Unfortunately, by that time I'd lost track
of who the seller was, so I just chalked it up to tuition in the school
of hard knocks. )-;

Thanks,
Rich

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 10:50:15 -0700, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
I thought you might find this interesting....

Seattle Man Gets Two Years for eBay Fraud Robert McMillan, IDG News
Service
Sat Sep 8, 8:00 PM ET

I wonder if that's the same guy who ripped me off for a hard drive?
I had bought a 40 GB and he shipped a 15 GB or something. I complained,
he said, "send it back, we'll send you the right one", I sent it back,
and never got anything back. Unfortunately, by that time I'd lost track
of who the seller was, so I just chalked it up to tuition in the school
of hard knocks. )-;

Thanks,
Rich

I didn't give PayPal access to my bank account. They tried to get me to give
them my account number and bank, but I refused. I did however register my
Visa with them and have used it several times for purchase. However, I am
always nervous about PayPal when I hear the horror stories..

wrote in message
oups.com...

And likely a Power Seller.

TMT

In eBay's defense (and I'm not affilliated with them in anyway other
than as a buyer), about
a year ago, I had a problem with someone not sending my something. Got
resolved quickly
enough and got money posted to my PayPal account. That was pretty good
in my
estimate. I always pay via PayPal and if someone doesn't accept it, I
don't bid. That simple.
To date, I've purchased over $600 of stuff via eBay and have never
been stiffed other
than this one time.

MJ Wallace


I've bought & sold a fair amount on both Ebay & Craigslist, especially prior
to a recent cross-country move. Sold 2 cars on Craigslist for good prices.
Also sold my then 5 year old Unisaw, 6" Delta jointer & some minor
accessories on Ebay. In the case of the saw, a guy drove ~700 miles round
trip to pick it up. Since I had gotten good prices on the items when I
bought them, I actually ended up making a couple bucks on the equipment! I
always insist on either cash (if it's a local pickup, like the tools & cars)
or paypal. Only had one bum ebay experience, guy bid on a set of Corvair
hubcaps I had, never paid for them (I hadn't ship them). And yeah, he had a
ton of positive feedbacks!

Dan

Out of about 1,500 transactions (2/3 sales 1/3 buys), I had only
several that were unsatisfactory (goods not delivered, or were
significantly worse than described). Maybe 5 or 6 total. None were
larger than a few dollars.

i

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 07:15:22 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:


Take a look at:
http://www.gripe2ed.com/scoop/?op=search&offset=6&old_count=30&type=story&sectio n=&string=paypal&search=Search&count=30



Three entries logged since the first of this year, one of which is a
complaint about VeRO program members taking down auctions "unfairly"
and two that complain about "Pricegrabber" transactions which happen
to have been paid through PayPal. Don't see much in there to fault
PayPal. What am I missing?

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:15:09 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote:
Why NOT Paypal?

You are open to more risk if you pay by MO or CC or personal check.

snip

Unless there have been major changes, the only safe way to use
PayPal is to have your bank set up a totally separate firewalled
checking account for PayPal to access - no automatic overdraft
protection, no externally initiated drafts or transfers from your
other accounts. You only leave $10 in "the PayPal checking account"
until you make a purchase, then you fund that account with the
purchase amount manually before closing the purchase.

This is what I set up at one of my INGDirect savings accounts and it saves a
lot of worry.

todd

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
. net...

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
According to :

[ ... ]

estimate. I always pay via PayPal and if someone doesn't accept it, I
don't bid. That simple.

Interesting. If someone accepts *only* PayPal, then I don't
bid. That simple again.

Enjoy,
DoN.

You're not alone, DoN. I refuse to do business through PayPal.

Harold

It would suit me just fine if fewer people used Paypal. As a sometimes eBay
seller, I hate having to pay the PayPal fees on top of the eBay fees, but
you can hardly find anyone who *doesn't* want to pay with Paypal.

todd

Tom Veatch wrote:

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 07:15:22 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:


Take a look at:
http://www.gripe2ed.com/scoop/?op=search&offset=6&old_count=30&type=story&sectio n=&string=paypal&search=Search&count=30



Three entries logged since the first of this year, one of which is a
complaint about VeRO program members taking down auctions "unfairly"
and two that complain about "Pricegrabber" transactions which happen
to have been paid through PayPal. Don't see much in there to fault
PayPal. What am I missing?

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

Also some comments regarding the $2000 limit before PayPal demands a
straight shot at your bank account as well as various anecdotal instances
of extreme difficulty getting refunds from PayPal. The latter, since they
are anecdotal are hard to determine whether a pattern is present or not.
However, the straight shot at my bank account is not going to happen.

I realize that is 2004 information; has PayPal changed it policy regarding
this?


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:29:05 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

Also some comments regarding the $2000 limit before PayPal demands a
straight shot at your bank account as well as various anecdotal instances
of extreme difficulty getting refunds from PayPal. The latter, since they
are anecdotal are hard to determine whether a pattern is present or not.
However, the straight shot at my bank account is not going to happen.

I realize that is 2004 information; has PayPal changed it policy regarding
this?


I don't have any idea what current policy is. I didn't pay a lot of
detailed attention to the older posts, but remember thinking that a
$2000 balance limit might not be a bad thing. But, if, as it appears,
it's a limit based on the sum of all transaction history, current or
cleared, then I'll have to agree that it's a large load of fecal
matter for which I see no reasonable justification.

It was interesting that one of the primary concerns voiced in this
thread - PayPal access to bank accounts - didn't seem to draw any
complaints on that particular board. At least none that I noticed.
But, like all the prospectus says, "Past performance is no guarantee
of future results."

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

I don't see paypal access to a checking account as that big a deal,
ANYONE you have ever sent a check to has your account number and
routing number, and is as equally capable as paypal of doing an illegal
EFT.


My personal experience with ebay and paypal has been pretty darn good.
When I first used ebay it had been operational less than a year. I've
had about 200 transactions, mostly purchases, and only 2 have been
problems. In both cases the money was credited back to my paypal account
after folowing dispute resolution procedures.


--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

In article , todd
wrote:

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:15:09 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote:
Why NOT Paypal?

You are open to more risk if you pay by MO or CC or personal check.

snip

Unless there have been major changes, the only safe way to use
PayPal is to have your bank set up a totally separate firewalled
checking account for PayPal to access - no automatic overdraft
protection, no externally initiated drafts or transfers from your
other accounts. You only leave $10 in "the PayPal checking account"
until you make a purchase, then you fund that account with the
purchase amount manually before closing the purchase.

This is what I set up at one of my INGDirect savings accounts and it saves a
lot of worry.

That's exactly what I do. It's no hassle at all and gives me peace of
mind.

--
Help improve usenet. Kill-file Google Groups.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:15:09 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote:
On Sep 10, 10:05 pm, GoForward wrote:
On Sep 10, 9:19 pm, (DoN. Nichols) wrote:

Interesting. If someone accepts *only* PayPal, then I don't
bid. That simple again.
Same here.
Why NOT Paypal?

You are open to more risk if you pay by MO or CC or personal check.

Because when you set up PayPal they have a direct line to access
your linked bank account - their test is to make an under $1 transfer
out (like $0.12) and you tell them the exact amount as a password.

(they transfer a few cents into your account, not out of it)

That's interesting.

I take both PayPal and regular CC's on my website and have yet to get a
regular CC transaction. If I hadn't signed a 2 year agreement, I'd drop
the regular CC arrangement.

Bill