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Starrett combination square - worth the price
The local dealer where I've been doing my shopping has a penchant for
carrying absolutely the best hand tools available, no matter what the cost. My combination square disappeared when we moved overseas last year and I need to get a new one. So, Lowe's carry's Johnson models for $9-$12 each. I decided to see what my favorite woodworking store carried. They have brands like Inca and Starrett. The 12" Starrett combination square sells for $69.95!!!! Good grief! At that price, it ought to cook breakfast for me. What meaningful, measurable difference would I get in a Starrett brand vs. the Johnson? I believe in paying for quality I can use, but not for just a famous brand name. Bob |
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
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#3
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
Bob Davis wrote:
snip What meaningful, measurable difference would I get in a Starrett brand vs. the Johnson? I believe in paying for quality I can use, but not for just a famous brand name. The Starrett will be square. The Johnson might be square. -- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA |
#4
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:29:07 GMT, "Bob Davis"
wrote: The local dealer where I've been doing my shopping has a penchant for carrying absolutely the best hand tools available, no matter what the cost. My combination square disappeared when we moved overseas last year and I need to get a new one. So, Lowe's carry's Johnson models for $9-$12 each. I decided to see what my favorite woodworking store carried. They have brands like Inca and Starrett. The 12" Starrett combination square sells for $69.95!!!! Good grief! At that price, it ought to cook breakfast for me. What meaningful, measurable difference would I get in a Starrett brand vs. the Johnson? I believe in paying for quality I can use, but not for just a famous brand name. The Starrett is a Square. The Johnson is more of a Random Angle Generator. Regards, Tom Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson |
#5
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:29:07 GMT, "Bob Davis"
wrote: The local dealer where I've been doing my shopping has a penchant for carrying absolutely the best hand tools available, no matter what the cost. My combination square disappeared when we moved overseas last year and I need to get a new one. So, Lowe's carry's Johnson models for $9-$12 each. I decided to see what my favorite woodworking store carried. They have brands like Inca and Starrett. The 12" Starrett combination square sells for $69.95!!!! Good grief! At that price, it ought to cook breakfast for me. What meaningful, measurable difference would I get in a Starrett brand vs. the Johnson? I believe in paying for quality I can use, but not for just a famous brand name. The Starrett is a Square. The Johnson is more of a Random Angle Generator. Regards, Tom Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson |
#6
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
You're paying (mostly) for accuracy, a little for name. Depending on
your woodworking, a Starrett could be overkill. It's designed for metalworking which tends to have much closer tolerances than woodworking needs. If all you do is frame houses, it's probably not needed. If you do tight intricate furniture and custom work, it could be. It would also serve as a nice standard to measure all of your other squares against. On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:29:07 GMT, "Bob Davis" wrote: The local dealer where I've been doing my shopping has a penchant for carrying absolutely the best hand tools available, no matter what the cost. My combination square disappeared when we moved overseas last year and I need to get a new one. So, Lowe's carry's Johnson models for $9-$12 each. I decided to see what my favorite woodworking store carried. They have brands like Inca and Starrett. The 12" Starrett combination square sells for $69.95!!!! Good grief! At that price, it ought to cook breakfast for me. What meaningful, measurable difference would I get in a Starrett brand vs. the Johnson? I believe in paying for quality I can use, but not for just a famous brand name. Bob |
#8
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
As a machinist, I've used my Starrett squares in the trade for more than 20
years and they are still holding up well. I also use them in my woodshop. Of course I live in Athol, Ma., the home of Starrett, so I wouldn't use anything else, plus, I get my tools at a very reduced rate Bob Davis wrote: The local dealer where I've been doing my shopping has a penchant for carrying absolutely the best hand tools available, no matter what the cost. My combination square disappeared when we moved overseas last year and I need to get a new one. So, Lowe's carry's Johnson models for $9-$12 each. I decided to see what my favorite woodworking store carried. They have brands like Inca and Starrett. The 12" Starrett combination square sells for $69.95!!!! Good grief! At that price, it ought to cook breakfast for me. What meaningful, measurable difference would I get in a Starrett brand vs. the Johnson? I believe in paying for quality I can use, but not for just a famous brand name. Bob |
#9
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
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#10
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
On 28-Sep-2003, bynot wrote:
Of course I live in Athol, Ma., the home of Starrett, so I wouldn't use anything else, plus, I get my tools at a very reduced rate Dumpster diving for tools! It might be 89.87 degrees, but it's _exactly_ 89.87 degrees! :-) Mike |
#11
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
In rec.woodworking
"Michael Daly" wrote: Of course I live in Athol, Ma., the home of Starrett, so I wouldn't use anything else, plus, I get my tools at a very reduced rate Dumpster diving for tools! It might be 89.87 degrees, but it's _exactly_ 89.87 degrees! Just for fun, I calculated the error on a square that was 89.87. On 3', the error is 5/64" and at 8' is 7/32" |
#12
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
you can find them on ebay for a pretty good prices. I have gotten most of my
squares from ebay. -- Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions. |
#13
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
In article . net,
Bob Davis wrote: ... What meaningful, measurable difference would I get in a Starrett brand vs. the Johnson? I believe in paying for quality I can use, but not for just a famous brand name. You'll get a very well made, extremely accurate and long lasting tool. You'll get quality you can use, and for a long time. I've been extremely happy with all of the Starrett tools I've bought. -- --henry schaffer |
#14
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
Bob Davis wrote:
brands like Inca and Starrett. The 12" Starrett combination square sells for $69.95!!!! You can get the basic 12" model from Tools For Working Wood http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com for $49 jw |
#15
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:57:16 GMT, Steve Knight
pixelated: you can find them on ebay for a pretty good prices. I have gotten most of my squares from ebay. Are we talking tools or plane buyers here, Steve? bseg -- Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life. ---- --Unknown |
#16
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
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#17
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
In article . net,
"Bob Davis" wrote: ...So, Lowe's carry's Johnson models for $9-$12 each. I decided to see what my favorite woodworking store carried. They have brands like Inca and Starrett. The 12" Starrett combination square sells for $69.95!... Is there anything to choose from between the Stanley and Johnson, at the low end, and the Starrett? Are there any brands (or even one) in between the two extremes? -- Regards, Benoit Evans |
#18
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
In rec.woodworking
"K.-Benoit Evans" wrote: In article . net, "Bob Davis" wrote: ...So, Lowe's carry's Johnson models for $9-$12 each. I decided to see what my favorite woodworking store carried. They have brands like Inca and Starrett. The 12" Starrett combination square sells for $69.95!... Is there anything to choose from between the Stanley and Johnson, at the low end, and the Starrett? Are there any brands (or even one) in between the two extremes? Look, just because it is cheap doesn't mean it isn't square. Pick a few off the rack and take them down to the lumber aisle and check them on a sheet of 4x8 MDF, which will be absolutely square. You really need to be careful and eyeball them correctly, looking for ANY air gap at all. If it is square when you buy it, it should remain square. |
#19
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:29:10 -0400, "K.-Benoit Evans"
wrote: Is there anything to choose from between the Stanley and Johnson, at the low end, and the Starrett? Are there any brands (or even one) in between the two extremes? Rabone Chesterman. Regards, Tom Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson |
#20
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 22:35:46 GMT, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:57:16 GMT, Steve Knight pixelated: you can find them on ebay for a pretty good prices. I have gotten most of my squares from ebay. Are we talking tools or plane buyers here, Steve? bseg squares (G) -- Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions. |
#21
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
The Starrett squares have some subtle differences which make them a pleasure
to use. For example, the edge of the rule is square to the face (of the rule), so drawing a repeatable line with a knife or pencil is easy. The Johnson square (at least the one that I own) has a rounded edge--the line wanders depending on how I hold the knife or pencil. |
#22
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
I used to buy whatever square was available in my local hardware store
(before HD.) About 10 years ago I bought a Starrett 18" square at a pawn shop for all of $20. I was using it today and it is much easier to read and set than the other "non-Starrett" squares. A couple of years ago I sprung for Starrett's "Builder's Combination Tool." A hefty 24 inch square with an adjustable head. http://catalog.starrett.com/catalog/...sp?GroupID=395 I find myself using this a lot and am impressed with how repeatable angle settings are. I don't think you can go wrong with Starrett. Phil Bob Davis wrote: The local dealer where I've been doing my shopping has a penchant for carrying absolutely the best hand tools available, no matter what the cost. My combination square disappeared when we moved overseas last year and I need to get a new one. So, Lowe's carry's Johnson models for $9-$12 each. I decided to see what my favorite woodworking store carried. They have brands like Inca and Starrett. The 12" Starrett combination square sells for $69.95!!!! Good grief! At that price, it ought to cook breakfast for me. What meaningful, measurable difference would I get in a Starrett brand vs. the Johnson? I believe in paying for quality I can use, but not for just a famous brand name. Bob |
#23
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
K.-Benoit Evans wrote:
Is there anything to choose from between the Stanley and Johnson, at the low end, and the Starrett? Are there any brands (or even one) in between the two extremes? Dunno. Personally, I *like* my Johnson square. If I hadn't been told so many times by the precision nazis what a lowly pile of junk the thing is, I'd actually think I had bought a nice, well-made tool. It's much better than the rusty pile of junk it replaced, which might have been a Stanley. Spend $70 if you can afford it. I can't see putting that much of my extremely limited budget into something that boring. Now of course I'm not a Real Woodworker, and I'm not being presumptuous enough to claim that the precision nazis are wrong. I'm just saying that you can enjoy making sawdust--and even turn out projects that really impress people who don't know any better--without raising the bar that high. -- Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621 Confirmed post number: 18027 Approximate word count: 540810 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/ |
#24
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
Phil wrote:
A couple of years ago I sprung for Starrett's "Builder's Combination Tool." A hefty 24 inch square with an adjustable head. http://catalog.starrett.com/catalog/...sp?GroupID=395 I find myself using this a lot and am impressed with how repeatable angle settings are. I try and not use my Builders Square too much. I'm too afeared I'll use up all its magic. I don't think you can go wrong with Starrett. And in the end its somewhat of a quality of life issue. It just makes the quality of my life that much nicer and judging by the early onset of curmudgeoness I need all the nice I can get. By the way, Woodcraft sells a 4-piece import that has the same heft as a Starrett I wouldn't hesitate to test drive one and the full set costs the same as the 2-piece Starrett. Also, almost any industrial supply house (MSC/Reid,etc.) all offer off shore squares at a lesser cost than a Starrett. They are worth consideration. UA100 |
#26
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
Bob Davis wrote:
What meaningful, measurable difference would I get in a Starrett brand vs. the Johnson? I believe in paying for quality I can use, but not for just a famous brand name. Bob I don't know about Johnson but fairly recently, (6 mo. - 1 yr.) one of the magazines did a comparison of adjustable squares and the Stanley received a good review. I have one and it's been fine. I have had some crappy ones in the past but this Stanley is square, and a hell of a lot cheaper than the Starret. -- Donnie Vazquez Sunderland, MD |
#27
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
As for a standard, I'll put a good quality engineers square against any
try square, including a Starrett. Although it probably is the best try square around. 1. It's not probably the best square around. It IS the best sqaure around. 2. Your engineer's square (I have one as well) is probably accurate enough for any woodworking, as it is with mine. 3. The Starrett is accurate based on the latest standards of measurment and accuaracy. All other squares are tested by comparign to a Starret. Really. I had a crappy try square years ago. I've had the Starret for over a decade, and it is still perfect. It not only measures square, inside and out (as well as 45), the rule is a Starrett, the easiest to read, and is also accurate. The slide mechanism is perfect, even after years of use. Not misuse. You get on, besides the cost, you don't want to misuse it. I have Norris planes, Knight planes, Two Cherries Chisels, a MiniMax bandsaw, a Unisaw. The Starret is my favorite tool. |
#28
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
"DarylRos" wrote in message ... 1. It's not probably the best square around. It IS the best sqaure around. They compare favorably with Moore and Wright, Brown and Sharp, Mititoyo, ect, ect. 3. All other squares are tested by comparign to a Starret. Really. Totally false. I don't know where this rumor ever got started but the only place I've heard it is on this group. About time some set the record strait. |
#29
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
"Bill Rittner" wrote in
news:euCdb.2778$N94.2577@lakeread02: To check a square hold it to the edge of a straight board and scribe a line, then flip the square over and, using the same edge, check the line you scribed. The tool is out of square by 1/2 the amount of error you see. Of course, that's only as accurate as the straightness of the edge of the "straight" board you're using. You may be measuring the curve of the edge of the board (times 2, of course). Which then begs the question "how do I test an edge for straightness" :-) John |
#30
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
I am very pleased with the opinions and thoughts offered in response to my
original query. I thought it was pretty balanced. One reader sent me a link to a website that had a very good tutorial on the various heads offered with Starrett tools. That was educational. I did not even know you could get a protractor head. So I've decided to 1) stalk ebay and see if I can find a starrett at some savings 2) if 1) fails, go buy a Stanley 3) Buy a forged steel starrett with all the heads when I make the purchase of a good jointer and planer for my shop. I'd prefer to start with number 3, but its kind of expensive. Until I get milling tools, I think the accuracy of a starrett will be academic for me. Bob "Donnie Vazquez" wrote in message ... Bob Davis wrote: What meaningful, measurable difference would I get in a Starrett brand vs. the Johnson? I believe in paying for quality I can use, but not for just a famous brand name. Bob I don't know about Johnson but fairly recently, (6 mo. - 1 yr.) one of the magazines did a comparison of adjustable squares and the Stanley received a good review. I have one and it's been fine. I have had some crappy ones in the past but this Stanley is square, and a hell of a lot cheaper than the Starret. -- Donnie Vazquez Sunderland, MD |
#31
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
Get one that you're happy with for the time being. Check (here we go again,
sorry)yard sales and flea markets, I got a 4 piece starrett for $30. "Silvan" wrote in message ... K.-Benoit Evans wrote: Is there anything to choose from between the Stanley and Johnson, at the low end, and the Starrett? Are there any brands (or even one) in between the two extremes? Dunno. Personally, I *like* my Johnson square. If I hadn't been told so many times by the precision nazis what a lowly pile of junk the thing is, I'd actually think I had bought a nice, well-made tool. It's much better than the rusty pile of junk it replaced, which might have been a Stanley. Spend $70 if you can afford it. I can't see putting that much of my extremely limited budget into something that boring. Now of course I'm not a Real Woodworker, and I'm not being presumptuous enough to claim that the precision nazis are wrong. I'm just saying that you can enjoy making sawdust--and even turn out projects that really impress people who don't know any better--without raising the bar that high. -- Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621 Confirmed post number: 18027 Approximate word count: 540810 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/ |
#32
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:35:17 GMT, "Bob Davis"
wrote: 2) if 1) fails, go buy a Stanley In the meantime, the Fine Woodworking web site has an article on tuning combi squares. This could come in handy with any square. http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00127.asp However, it won't put the beautiful markings and precision feel of a Starrett, B&S, or other high-end model into the cheaper tool. G Have fun, Barry |
#33
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:44:26 -0400, Donnie Vazquez
wrote: I have had some crappy ones in the past but this Stanley is square, and a hell of a lot cheaper than the Starret. I actually have a *gasp* Craftsman combo square that's accurate, but I still prefer my Starretts. It goes beyond square, the Starrett rule is much easier to read, the mechanism works better, the blade edges are truly parallel, and the ends of the blade are truly square with the edges. I use the Craftsman outdoors, on construction type stuff, and it's the one I loan out. G Barry |
#34
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
John McCoy wrote:
Of course, that's only as accurate as the straightness of the edge of the "straight" board you're using. You may be measuring the curve of the edge of the board (times 2, of course). Which then begs the question "how do I test an edge for straightness" :-) John With a Starrett straight edge. -- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA |
#35
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
Truthfully Bob, you can do fine woodwork with either. I used a cheap stanley as
child for my tool pouch, its been dropped plenty, its still around somewhere and plenty useable for carpentry work. Now of course I've used Starrett and Millers Falls machinist quality Comb. squares here in the shop and its really hard to go back once you've used really nicely made tools. It took me a good long while combing the flea markets and the bay for a good deal and I'm glad I waited because I fould some very good deals and acquired quite a lot of Starret tools that are useful for woodworking. And your odds of getting a quality used tool are really pretty good when you're buying high end stuff like Starrett. My advice, keep an inexpensive square for outside the shop, not necessarily a comb square, tri squares, machinist's squares and aluminum framing squares are very handy too and affordable. Then keep your eye out for a machinist quality square at a good price. David P.S. As you grow older and your eyesight changes you'll appreciate the readability of the Starrett scales. In article . net, Bob Davis says... What meaningful, measurable difference would I get in a Starrett brand vs. the Johnson? I believe in paying for quality I can use, but not for just a famous brand name. Bob |
#36
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
Now that's disgusting. :-) I need to have my wife do my shopping. She
found a painting appraised at $8000. The little store didn't know what they had and asked $300 for the painting with the frame. She offered $200 for the painting without the frame and bought it. Now we have to carry insurance on the thing. Speaking of insurance, I better go check my home owners policy and see what it says about a shop full of expensive tools -- getting there one saw blade at a time. "Paul Prunkel" wrote in message ... Get one that you're happy with for the time being. Check (here we go again, sorry)yard sales and flea markets, I got a 4 piece starrett for $30. |
#37
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
Nova wrote:
John McCoy wrote: Of course, that's only as accurate as the straightness of the edge of the "straight" board you're using. You may be measuring the curve of the edge of the board (times 2, of course). Which then begs the question "how do I test an edge for straightness" :-) John With a Starrett straight edge. For the real hardco http://www.tdl.com/~swensen/machines...ight_edge.html |
#38
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:39:36 -0700, "Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A."
For the real hardco http://www.tdl.com/~swensen/machines...ight_edge.html I did that once to make my first 36" straight edge. I used 1/4" thick 36" bars of O-1. what a pain in the rear. -- Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions. |
#39
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
This thread made me go look at my combo square set to see what it is. These are
fairly old tools that were my dad's that I got after he died. It appears that the protractor head and the center finder head is a Starrett as it says " L.S. Starrett Co. Athol Mass U.S.A. No. 12". The rule in it has no name. The Center Finder head has no markings, but appears to be a Starrett only because it looks the same as the Protractor head and has the same tightening knob. It has a nicely marked Union Tool Company rule that has been broken off at about 9". The square head has no markings, but looks like the Starrett protractor head but has a different shaped adjuster knob. It has no scratch awl and never did , there being no place for it. This one has a "Universal No. 65" 12" rule from the Lufkin Rule Company. All I know is that the square seems square (by the board test), the center finder seems to find the center, and the protractor head seems dead on at any angle that I can test with something decent (i.e. 45 and 30 degrees. That old Starrett protrator head moves very smoothly and is clearly well made. I will say that the Union Tool rule seems to fit best in all of them sliding more smoothly than the others, too bad it was broken at some point. I probably should get a Starrett rule for them some day. Dave Hall |
#40
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Starrett combination square - worth the price
K.-Benoit Evans wrote:
Is there anything to choose from between the Stanley and Johnson, I find my stanley 46-123 yellow combination square to be quit good for woodworking. numbers are easy to read and there are little nubs that the rule sits on that you can file down if need be to tune the square. paid $12 for it.. jw |
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