- Steven -
I have a trim carpenter who does excellent work, but I am finding it
impossible to make him use glue when building my cabinets. All of our
cabinets are custom built from my layout. I spec all of the materials
and
how I want them fabricated, including gluing all of the pieces
together.
Yesterday, the face frame was loose on a cabinet he was installing, so
I
pulled on it and it came off (not glued, only four finish nails).
After a
very heated argument (he said that if pulled on, it would have come
off even
it was glued) we debated if glue was even necessary. I say it is. He
says
no. I realize I am paying the bill, so what I say goes (or he goes),
but am
I missing something? Is it now an industry standard to rely on smooth
finish nails to hold cabinets together? What's the opinion of this
group?

- Nehmo -
In interior applications I've pretty much stopped using finishing nails
and I've switched to small head square-drive trim screws. I don't
necessarily use this brand, but here's a pic of some:
http://trimscrew.com/TRIM-SCREW.htm
another brand
http://www.manasquanfasteners.com/St...20Scre ws.htm
I keep one screwgun with a drill bit in it to predrill and another with
the square-drive bit to do the driving.

In your particular application of a faceplate on a cabinet, without more
detail I can't say if I would have used glue or not. But I wouldn't have
just used finishing nails and if the customer had specified glue, I
certainly would have used it.

You can get more replies to your technical question in
news:rec.woodworking . I crossposted.



--
*******************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*******************

Well I would say the exact opposite, taking the time and effort to glue the
cabinetry will make it stronger and you will end up in the end with a better
quality cabinet.....mjh

--
mike hide



"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message
...
- Steven -
I have a trim carpenter who does excellent work, but I am finding it
impossible to make him use glue when building my cabinets. All of our
cabinets are custom built from my layout. I spec all of the materials
and
how I want them fabricated, including gluing all of the pieces
together.
Yesterday, the face frame was loose on a cabinet he was installing, so
I
pulled on it and it came off (not glued, only four finish nails).
After a
very heated argument (he said that if pulled on, it would have come
off even
it was glued) we debated if glue was even necessary. I say it is. He
says
no. I realize I am paying the bill, so what I say goes (or he goes),
but am
I missing something? Is it now an industry standard to rely on smooth
finish nails to hold cabinets together? What's the opinion of this
group?

- Nehmo -
In interior applications I've pretty much stopped using finishing nails
and I've switched to small head square-drive trim screws. I don't
necessarily use this brand, but here's a pic of some:
http://trimscrew.com/TRIM-SCREW.htm
another brand

http://www.manasquanfasteners.com/St...ead%20Finishin
g%20Screws.htm
I keep one screwgun with a drill bit in it to predrill and another with
the square-drive bit to do the driving.

In your particular application of a faceplate on a cabinet, without more
detail I can't say if I would have used glue or not. But I wouldn't have
just used finishing nails and if the customer had specified glue, I
certainly would have used it.

You can get more replies to your technical question in
news:rec.woodworking . I crossposted.



--
*******************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*******************

I would go with the glue for a few reasons:

1. The customer specified it
2. I don't have to hide the nails
3. It looks better
4. It can be stronger

Unfortunately:
1. Glue tends to be permanent, repairs are hard or impossible
2. It requires clamping, which might include nails
3. It takes a bit of time to apply and cure
4. If it isn't wiped off properly, the subsequent finish doesn't go on
right.

On the balance, I would usually rather use glue than nails for my work, but
I'm just a weekend woodworker.

Michael


"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message
...
- Steven -
I have a trim carpenter who does excellent work, but I am finding it
impossible to make him use glue when building my cabinets. All of our
cabinets are custom built from my layout. I spec all of the materials
and
how I want them fabricated, including gluing all of the pieces
together.
Yesterday, the face frame was loose on a cabinet he was installing, so
I
pulled on it and it came off (not glued, only four finish nails).
After a
very heated argument (he said that if pulled on, it would have come
off even
it was glued) we debated if glue was even necessary. I say it is. He
says
no. I realize I am paying the bill, so what I say goes (or he goes),
but am
I missing something? Is it now an industry standard to rely on smooth
finish nails to hold cabinets together? What's the opinion of this
group?

- Nehmo -
In interior applications I've pretty much stopped using finishing nails
and I've switched to small head square-drive trim screws. I don't
necessarily use this brand, but here's a pic of some:
http://trimscrew.com/TRIM-SCREW.htm
another brand

http://www.manasquanfasteners.com/St...20Scre ws.htm
I keep one screwgun with a drill bit in it to predrill and another with
the square-drive bit to do the driving.

In your particular application of a faceplate on a cabinet, without more
detail I can't say if I would have used glue or not. But I wouldn't have
just used finishing nails and if the customer had specified glue, I
certainly would have used it.

You can get more replies to your technical question in
news:rec.woodworking . I crossposted.



--
*******************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*******************

I would agree with your assessment. I just completed two(2) nightstands using face frame construction. The FF was attached with
glue and biscuits. It's not going anywhere, solid as a rock.

Al

"Herman Family" /without_any_s/ wrote in message ...
I would go with the glue for a few reasons:

1. The customer specified it
2. I don't have to hide the nails
3. It looks better
4. It can be stronger

Unfortunately:
1. Glue tends to be permanent, repairs are hard or impossible
2. It requires clamping, which might include nails
3. It takes a bit of time to apply and cure
4. If it isn't wiped off properly, the subsequent finish doesn't go on
right.

On the balance, I would usually rather use glue than nails for my work, but
I'm just a weekend woodworker.

Michael


"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message
...
- Steven -
I have a trim carpenter who does excellent work, but I am finding it
impossible to make him use glue when building my cabinets. All of our
cabinets are custom built from my layout. I spec all of the materials
and
how I want them fabricated, including gluing all of the pieces
together.
Yesterday, the face frame was loose on a cabinet he was installing, so
I
pulled on it and it came off (not glued, only four finish nails).
After a
very heated argument (he said that if pulled on, it would have come
off even
it was glued) we debated if glue was even necessary. I say it is. He
says
no. I realize I am paying the bill, so what I say goes (or he goes),
but am
I missing something? Is it now an industry standard to rely on smooth
finish nails to hold cabinets together? What's the opinion of this
group?

- Nehmo -
In interior applications I've pretty much stopped using finishing nails
and I've switched to small head square-drive trim screws. I don't
necessarily use this brand, but here's a pic of some:
http://trimscrew.com/TRIM-SCREW.htm
another brand

http://www.manasquanfasteners.com/St...20Scre ws.htm
I keep one screwgun with a drill bit in it to predrill and another with
the square-drive bit to do the driving.

In your particular application of a faceplate on a cabinet, without more
detail I can't say if I would have used glue or not. But I wouldn't have
just used finishing nails and if the customer had specified glue, I
certainly would have used it.

You can get more replies to your technical question in
news:rec.woodworking . I crossposted.



--
*******************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*******************

"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message
...
- Steven -
I have a trim carpenter who does excellent work, but I am finding it
impossible to make him use glue when building my cabinets. All of our
cabinets are custom built from my layout. I spec all of the materials
and
how I want them fabricated, including gluing all of the pieces
together.
Yesterday, the face frame was loose on a cabinet he was installing, so
I
pulled on it and it came off (not glued, only four finish nails).
After a
very heated argument (he said that if pulled on, it would have come
off even
it was glued) we debated if glue was even necessary. I say it is. He
says
no. I realize I am paying the bill, so what I say goes (or he goes),
but am
I missing something? Is it now an industry standard to rely on smooth
finish nails to hold cabinets together? What's the opinion of this
group?

- Nehmo -

Not only should it have glue, but it should also have another form of
mechanical fasteners, other than nails. Some like biscits, I prefer dado
and rabbits to A) increase glue surface area and B) control dimensions.
I've done both. With the dado and rabbits, or biscits, with good clamping,
no or very few nails are needed.
--
Jim in NC

Not only should it have glue, but it should also have another form of
mechanical fasteners, other than nails. Some like biscits, I prefer dado
and rabbits to A) increase glue surface area and B) control dimensions.
I've done both. With the dado and rabbits, or biscits, with good
clamping,
no or very few nails are needed.
--
Jim in NC

What do you do with the rabbits? With biscuits and rabbits you could have a
decent meal, but I don't know how the rabbit will help with your cabinets.

-Jack

"JackD" wrote in message ...


Not only should it have glue, but it should also have another form of
mechanical fasteners, other than nails. Some like biscits, I prefer
dado
and rabbits to A) increase glue surface area and B) control dimensions.
I've done both. With the dado and rabbits, or biscits, with good
clamping,
no or very few nails are needed.
--
Jim in NC

What do you do with the rabbits? With biscuits and rabbits you could have
a
decent meal, but I don't know how the rabbit will help with your cabinets.

-Jack


LOL!!!

I put a dado in the styles, and a rabbit on the side of the cabinet. 1/4"
reveal when finished, so put a 3/8" dado starting 5/8" in from the outside
edge of the style. 3/8" rabbit on the outside of the side.
--
Jim in NC

What do you do with the rabbits? With biscuits and rabbits you could
have
a
decent meal, but I don't know how the rabbit will help with your
cabinets.

-Jack


LOL!!!

I put a dado in the styles, and a rabbit on the side of the cabinet. 1/4"
reveal when finished, so put a 3/8" dado starting 5/8" in from the outside
edge of the style. 3/8" rabbit on the outside of the side.
--
Jim in NC


I think you are talking about rabbets. Not rabbits (hopping furry animals)
or ribbits (the noise of another hopping animal)..

-Jack

"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message
You can get more replies to your technical question in
news:rec.woodworking . I crossposted.



--
*******************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *

*******************

Nehmo, for one to xpost an answer, they've been sniffing to much glue!
Put the lid back on and clear your nostrils!

"Morgans" wrote
I put a dado in the styles, and a rabbit on the side of the cabinet. 1/4"
reveal when finished, so put a 3/8" dado starting 5/8" in from the outside
edge of the style. 3/8" rabbit on the outside of the side.
--
Jim in NC


Oh, I forgot to say, a 3/8" dado, 3/8" in from the edge on the rails, 3/8"
rabbit on the top and bottoms.
--
Jim in NC

LOL!!!

I put a dado in the styles, and a rabbit on the side of the cabinet.
1/4"
reveal when finished, so put a 3/8" dado starting 5/8" in from the
outside
edge of the style. 3/8" rabbit on the outside of the side.
--
Jim in NC


I think you are talking about rabbets. Not rabbits (hopping furry animals)
or ribbits (the noise of another hopping animal)..

-Jack


If you insist. g I am a notoreously lossey speler, and I was two lacey to
get up and get a dictionary!
--
Jim in NC

I am in the process of completing two more Mahogany, Veteran's Flag Cases. I
am using some Marine Bronze screws as combined fasteners and decorative
accents.

Due to the 'proper' size of the screw heads, they are #6 x 1 inch.
Therefore, I pre-drill and 'chamfer' holes on the mating faces. Then
carefully 'paint' TiteBond II on the 'inner' edges of the face frame mating
surfaces . . . Whatever tiny bits of squeeze-out that occurs, are easily
removed with a scraper before sanding, filling, and varnishing.

It really doesn't seem like that much more work; just part of the normal
requirement for a the type of quality you want associated with YOUR name.
Most of it is simply exhibiting patience while the glue dries over night.

Either way, the time to properly lay on 6 coats of varnish {with a 24-hour
'cure' period between coats}, will take more actual *time* than the entire
building process !!

Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop