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Old September 26th 03, 06:46 PM
Nehmo Sergheyev
 
Posts: n/a
Default Glue vs. No Glue

- Steven -
I have a trim carpenter who does excellent work, but I am finding it
impossible to make him use glue when building my cabinets. All of our
cabinets are custom built from my layout. I spec all of the materials

and
how I want them fabricated, including gluing all of the pieces

together.
Yesterday, the face frame was loose on a cabinet he was installing, so

I
pulled on it and it came off (not glued, only four finish nails).

After a
very heated argument (he said that if pulled on, it would have come

off even
it was glued) we debated if glue was even necessary. I say it is. He

says
no. I realize I am paying the bill, so what I say goes (or he goes),

but am
I missing something? Is it now an industry standard to rely on smooth
finish nails to hold cabinets together? What's the opinion of this

group?

- Nehmo -
In interior applications I've pretty much stopped using finishing nails
and I've switched to small head square-drive trim screws. I don't
necessarily use this brand, but here's a pic of some:
http://trimscrew.com/TRIM-SCREW.htm
another brand
http://www.manasquanfasteners.com/St...20Scre ws.htm
I keep one screwgun with a drill bit in it to predrill and another with
the square-drive bit to do the driving.

In your particular application of a faceplate on a cabinet, without more
detail I can't say if I would have used glue or not. But I wouldn't have
just used finishing nails and if the customer had specified glue, I
certainly would have used it.

You can get more replies to your technical question in
news:rec.woodworking . I crossposted.



--
*******************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*******************




  #2   Report Post  
Old September 26th 03, 07:04 PM
Mike Hide
 
Posts: n/a
Default Glue vs. No Glue

Well I would say the exact opposite, taking the time and effort to glue the
cabinetry will make it stronger and you will end up in the end with a better
quality cabinet.....mjh

--
mike hide



"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message
...
- Steven -
I have a trim carpenter who does excellent work, but I am finding it
impossible to make him use glue when building my cabinets. All of our
cabinets are custom built from my layout. I spec all of the materials

and
how I want them fabricated, including gluing all of the pieces

together.
Yesterday, the face frame was loose on a cabinet he was installing, so

I
pulled on it and it came off (not glued, only four finish nails).

After a
very heated argument (he said that if pulled on, it would have come

off even
it was glued) we debated if glue was even necessary. I say it is. He

says
no. I realize I am paying the bill, so what I say goes (or he goes),

but am
I missing something? Is it now an industry standard to rely on smooth
finish nails to hold cabinets together? What's the opinion of this

group?

- Nehmo -
In interior applications I've pretty much stopped using finishing nails
and I've switched to small head square-drive trim screws. I don't
necessarily use this brand, but here's a pic of some:
http://trimscrew.com/TRIM-SCREW.htm
another brand

http://www.manasquanfasteners.com/St...ead%20Finishin
g%20Screws.htm
I keep one screwgun with a drill bit in it to predrill and another with
the square-drive bit to do the driving.

In your particular application of a faceplate on a cabinet, without more
detail I can't say if I would have used glue or not. But I wouldn't have
just used finishing nails and if the customer had specified glue, I
certainly would have used it.

You can get more replies to your technical question in
news:rec.woodworking . I crossposted.



--
*******************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*******************




  #3   Report Post  
Old September 26th 03, 07:31 PM
Herman Family
 
Posts: n/a
Default Glue vs. No Glue

I would go with the glue for a few reasons:

1. The customer specified it
2. I don't have to hide the nails
3. It looks better
4. It can be stronger

Unfortunately:
1. Glue tends to be permanent, repairs are hard or impossible
2. It requires clamping, which might include nails
3. It takes a bit of time to apply and cure
4. If it isn't wiped off properly, the subsequent finish doesn't go on
right.

On the balance, I would usually rather use glue than nails for my work, but
I'm just a weekend woodworker.

Michael


"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message
...
- Steven -
I have a trim carpenter who does excellent work, but I am finding it
impossible to make him use glue when building my cabinets. All of our
cabinets are custom built from my layout. I spec all of the materials

and
how I want them fabricated, including gluing all of the pieces

together.
Yesterday, the face frame was loose on a cabinet he was installing, so

I
pulled on it and it came off (not glued, only four finish nails).

After a
very heated argument (he said that if pulled on, it would have come

off even
it was glued) we debated if glue was even necessary. I say it is. He

says
no. I realize I am paying the bill, so what I say goes (or he goes),

but am
I missing something? Is it now an industry standard to rely on smooth
finish nails to hold cabinets together? What's the opinion of this

group?

- Nehmo -
In interior applications I've pretty much stopped using finishing nails
and I've switched to small head square-drive trim screws. I don't
necessarily use this brand, but here's a pic of some:
http://trimscrew.com/TRIM-SCREW.htm
another brand

http://www.manasquanfasteners.com/St...20Scre ws.htm
I keep one screwgun with a drill bit in it to predrill and another with
the square-drive bit to do the driving.

In your particular application of a faceplate on a cabinet, without more
detail I can't say if I would have used glue or not. But I wouldn't have
just used finishing nails and if the customer had specified glue, I
certainly would have used it.

You can get more replies to your technical question in
news:rec.woodworking . I crossposted.



--
*******************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*******************





  #4   Report Post  
Old September 26th 03, 07:39 PM
Al Reid
 
Posts: n/a
Default Glue vs. No Glue

I would agree with your assessment. I just completed two(2) nightstands using face frame construction. The FF was attached with
glue and biscuits. It's not going anywhere, solid as a rock.

Al

"Herman Family" /without_any_s/ wrote in message ...
I would go with the glue for a few reasons:

1. The customer specified it
2. I don't have to hide the nails
3. It looks better
4. It can be stronger

Unfortunately:
1. Glue tends to be permanent, repairs are hard or impossible
2. It requires clamping, which might include nails
3. It takes a bit of time to apply and cure
4. If it isn't wiped off properly, the subsequent finish doesn't go on
right.

On the balance, I would usually rather use glue than nails for my work, but
I'm just a weekend woodworker.

Michael


"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message
...
- Steven -
I have a trim carpenter who does excellent work, but I am finding it
impossible to make him use glue when building my cabinets. All of our
cabinets are custom built from my layout. I spec all of the materials

and
how I want them fabricated, including gluing all of the pieces

together.
Yesterday, the face frame was loose on a cabinet he was installing, so

I
pulled on it and it came off (not glued, only four finish nails).

After a
very heated argument (he said that if pulled on, it would have come

off even
it was glued) we debated if glue was even necessary. I say it is. He

says
no. I realize I am paying the bill, so what I say goes (or he goes),

but am
I missing something? Is it now an industry standard to rely on smooth
finish nails to hold cabinets together? What's the opinion of this

group?

- Nehmo -
In interior applications I've pretty much stopped using finishing nails
and I've switched to small head square-drive trim screws. I don't
necessarily use this brand, but here's a pic of some:
http://trimscrew.com/TRIM-SCREW.htm
another brand

http://www.manasquanfasteners.com/St...20Scre ws.htm
I keep one screwgun with a drill bit in it to predrill and another with
the square-drive bit to do the driving.

In your particular application of a faceplate on a cabinet, without more
detail I can't say if I would have used glue or not. But I wouldn't have
just used finishing nails and if the customer had specified glue, I
certainly would have used it.

You can get more replies to your technical question in
news:rec.woodworking . I crossposted.



--
*******************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*******************







  #5   Report Post  
Old September 26th 03, 08:06 PM
Morgans
 
Posts: n/a
Default Glue vs. No Glue


"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message
...
- Steven -
I have a trim carpenter who does excellent work, but I am finding it
impossible to make him use glue when building my cabinets. All of our
cabinets are custom built from my layout. I spec all of the materials

and
how I want them fabricated, including gluing all of the pieces

together.
Yesterday, the face frame was loose on a cabinet he was installing, so

I
pulled on it and it came off (not glued, only four finish nails).

After a
very heated argument (he said that if pulled on, it would have come

off even
it was glued) we debated if glue was even necessary. I say it is. He

says
no. I realize I am paying the bill, so what I say goes (or he goes),

but am
I missing something? Is it now an industry standard to rely on smooth
finish nails to hold cabinets together? What's the opinion of this

group?

- Nehmo -


Not only should it have glue, but it should also have another form of
mechanical fasteners, other than nails. Some like biscits, I prefer dado
and rabbits to A) increase glue surface area and B) control dimensions.
I've done both. With the dado and rabbits, or biscits, with good clamping,
no or very few nails are needed.
--
Jim in NC





  #6   Report Post  
Old September 27th 03, 12:15 AM
JackD
 
Posts: n/a
Default Glue vs. No Glue



Not only should it have glue, but it should also have another form of
mechanical fasteners, other than nails. Some like biscits, I prefer dado
and rabbits to A) increase glue surface area and B) control dimensions.
I've done both. With the dado and rabbits, or biscits, with good

clamping,
no or very few nails are needed.
--
Jim in NC


What do you do with the rabbits? With biscuits and rabbits you could have a
decent meal, but I don't know how the rabbit will help with your cabinets.

-Jack


  #7   Report Post  
Old September 27th 03, 02:00 AM
Morgans
 
Posts: n/a
Default Glue vs. No Glue


"JackD" wrote in message ...


Not only should it have glue, but it should also have another form of
mechanical fasteners, other than nails. Some like biscits, I prefer

dado
and rabbits to A) increase glue surface area and B) control dimensions.
I've done both. With the dado and rabbits, or biscits, with good

clamping,
no or very few nails are needed.
--
Jim in NC


What do you do with the rabbits? With biscuits and rabbits you could have

a
decent meal, but I don't know how the rabbit will help with your cabinets.

-Jack


LOL!!!

I put a dado in the styles, and a rabbit on the side of the cabinet. 1/4"
reveal when finished, so put a 3/8" dado starting 5/8" in from the outside
edge of the style. 3/8" rabbit on the outside of the side.
--
Jim in NC


  #8   Report Post  
Old September 27th 03, 02:05 AM
JackD
 
Posts: n/a
Default Glue vs. No Glue


What do you do with the rabbits? With biscuits and rabbits you could

have
a
decent meal, but I don't know how the rabbit will help with your

cabinets.

-Jack


LOL!!!

I put a dado in the styles, and a rabbit on the side of the cabinet. 1/4"
reveal when finished, so put a 3/8" dado starting 5/8" in from the outside
edge of the style. 3/8" rabbit on the outside of the side.
--
Jim in NC


I think you are talking about rabbets. Not rabbits (hopping furry animals)
or ribbits (the noise of another hopping animal)..

-Jack


  #9   Report Post  
Old September 27th 03, 02:09 AM
Kotch
 
Posts: n/a
Default Glue vs. No Glue


"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message
You can get more replies to your technical question in
news:rec.woodworking . I crossposted.



--
*******************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *


*******************


Nehmo, for one to xpost an answer, they've been sniffing to much glue!
Put the lid back on and clear your nostrils!

  #10   Report Post  
Old September 27th 03, 02:17 AM
Morgans
 
Posts: n/a
Default Glue vs. No Glue


"Morgans" wrote
I put a dado in the styles, and a rabbit on the side of the cabinet. 1/4"
reveal when finished, so put a 3/8" dado starting 5/8" in from the outside
edge of the style. 3/8" rabbit on the outside of the side.
--
Jim in NC


Oh, I forgot to say, a 3/8" dado, 3/8" in from the edge on the rails, 3/8"
rabbit on the top and bottoms.
--
Jim in NC




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