Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 138
Default How to attach a table top without screws showing...


I have a very short little planter table that I put together as a silly
father-son project with my 3 year old. The idea was to use up the left over
lumber from my deck. I haven't finished the table because I am not sure how
to adhere the table top in such a way that there are no screws showing.

Looking down, the table underpinning (no top) looks like this (go fixed
width font):

+----+ +----+
| +----------------------------+ |
| +-------------++-------------+ |
+-++-+ || +-++-+
|| || ||
|| || ||
|| || ||
+-++-+ || +-++-+
| +-------------++-------------+ |
| +----------------------------+ |
+----+ +----+

Legs are short cedar 4x4's, and the thinner bars are cedar 2x4's. Now I
have cedar boards (true ¾ x true 5½) to act as a table top. I'll draw these
with #'s OVER the prior diagram so you can get a sense as to what overlaps
what:

############################################
# +----+ +----+ #
# | +----------------------------+ | #
# | +-------------++-------------+ | #
############################################
# || || || #
# || || || #
# || || || #
############################################
# | +-------------++-------------+ | #
# | +----------------------------+ | #
# +----+ +----+ #
############################################

So the question is how do I best screw these boards to the top from
underneath? The entirety of the underpinning is pocket screws (...sort of,
more like 30° angles), so no screws show. But I would like to keep the no
screws showing policy going here.

Do I.....

1. Use angle brackets connecting the 2x4's to the top boards from "inside"
and underneath? These would require very short screws predrilled into the
boards.

or

2. The 2x4's are a true 3¼" I have 3½" decking screws. I'm wondering if I
couldn't just counter sink in the screw the entire width of the 2x4 upwards
and (if I'm careful) have it pierce the top by only ½"... But that seems
sketchy to me.

or

3. something else?

Thanks!

--
Forgetthesong,I'dratherhavethefrontallobotomy...


  #2   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 138
Default How to attach a table top without screws showing...

Thom said something like:

"Thomas G. Marshall"
. com wrote in
message news:aKJxi.116$wr3.69@trndny04...

I have a very short little planter table that I put together as a
silly father-son project with my 3 year old. The idea was to use up
the left over lumber from my deck. I haven't finished the table
because I am not sure how to adhere the table top in such a way that
there are no screws showing.


....[rip]...

maybe Z clips? [...]


But how would that work? Z-clips are usually hanging devices, no? How
would they work when oriented horizontally....wouldn't this just allow the
table top to be slid out?


  #3   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 47
Default How to attach a table top without screws showing...

maybe Z clips? maybe dowels?
Thom
"Thomas G. Marshall" . com
wrote in message news:aKJxi.116$wr3.69@trndny04...

I have a very short little planter table that I put together as a silly
father-son project with my 3 year old. The idea was to use up the left

over
lumber from my deck. I haven't finished the table because I am not sure

how
to adhere the table top in such a way that there are no screws showing.

Looking down, the table underpinning (no top) looks like this (go fixed
width font):

+----+ +----+
| +----------------------------+ |
| +-------------++-------------+ |
+-++-+ || +-++-+
|| || ||
|| || ||
|| || ||
+-++-+ || +-++-+
| +-------------++-------------+ |
| +----------------------------+ |
+----+ +----+

Legs are short cedar 4x4's, and the thinner bars are cedar 2x4's. Now I
have cedar boards (true ¾ x true 5½) to act as a table top. I'll draw

these
with #'s OVER the prior diagram so you can get a sense as to what overlaps
what:

############################################
# +----+ +----+ #
# | +----------------------------+ | #
# | +-------------++-------------+ | #
############################################
# || || || #
# || || || #
# || || || #
############################################
# | +-------------++-------------+ | #
# | +----------------------------+ | #
# +----+ +----+ #
############################################

So the question is how do I best screw these boards to the top from
underneath? The entirety of the underpinning is pocket screws (...sort

of,
more like 30° angles), so no screws show. But I would like to keep the no
screws showing policy going here.

Do I.....

1. Use angle brackets connecting the 2x4's to the top boards from "inside"
and underneath? These would require very short screws predrilled into the
boards.

or

2. The 2x4's are a true 3¼" I have 3½" decking screws. I'm wondering if

I
couldn't just counter sink in the screw the entire width of the 2x4

upwards
and (if I'm careful) have it pierce the top by only ½"... But that seems
sketchy to me.

or

3. something else?

Thanks!

--
Forgetthesong,I'dratherhavethefrontallobotomy...




  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,091
Default How to attach a table top without screws showing...

Nice little project Tom and what a blessing to share such a wonderful
time with your son doing what you enjoy. I think we'd have a much
better world if there was more of that going on.

Regarding the table. The fact that the top strips are not built into a
single piece limits the options a little and will make it a bit harder
to get things to set down firm with a single line of attachment. I
think the up-screwing idea is fine but the two outer pieces might rock
abit with only a single line of screws. You can counter bore this
also, rather than using the long screws and counter sink. Drill a 3/8"
dia hole about 3/4 of the way through from underneath as you proposed
and then drill a piloty hole the rest of the way. Use shorter screws
up into the top pieces. Use multiple screws at the corss members of
the center piece. You migh consider some method of tieing the outer
slats to the center one for more stability.

Another very similar idea is to use pocket screws along the inside
faces of the table aprons and stretchers, up into the table top
pieces. No one can see them there unless they lay under that table
(which I have been know to do on occasion but that's another set of
stories).

I think angle brackets will be a rickety, they just won't handle any
racking well and wioll loosen quickly, unless the table top is one
monolithic piece.

A more structurally beefy way would be to run a few batten across the
underside of the 3 pieces, attached with counter bored screws perhaps.
They could be aligned just inside the legs at each end. Then the apron
2x4's could be notched to allow then to set in and then also screw the
battens to the legs. Not sure it makes sense but I can only draw with
AutoCAD, unlike your beautiful dash and pipe work.


On Aug 18, 2:43 pm, "Thomas G. Marshall"
. com wrote:
I have a very short little planter table that I put together as a silly
father-son project with my 3 year old. The idea was to use up the left over
lumber from my deck. I haven't finished the table because I am not sure how
to adhere the table top in such a way that there are no screws showing.

Looking down, the table underpinning (no top) looks like this (go fixed
width font):

+----+ +----+
| +----------------------------+ |
| +-------------++-------------+ |
+-++-+ || +-++-+
|| || ||
|| || ||
|| || ||
+-++-+ || +-++-+
| +-------------++-------------+ |
| +----------------------------+ |
+----+ +----+

Legs are short cedar 4x4's, and the thinner bars are cedar 2x4's. Now I
have cedar boards (true ¾ x true 5½) to act as a table top. I'll draw these
with #'s OVER the prior diagram so you can get a sense as to what overlaps
what:

############################################
# +----+ +----+ #
# | +----------------------------+ | #
# | +-------------++-------------+ | #
############################################
# || || || #
# || || || #
# || || || #
############################################
# | +-------------++-------------+ | #
# | +----------------------------+ | #
# +----+ +----+ #
############################################

So the question is how do I best screw these boards to the top from
underneath? The entirety of the underpinning is pocket screws (...sort of,
more like 30° angles), so no screws show. But I would like to keep the no
screws showing policy going here.

Do I.....

1. Use angle brackets connecting the 2x4's to the top boards from "inside"
and underneath? These would require very short screws predrilled into the
boards.

or

2. The 2x4's are a true 3¼" I have 3½" decking screws. I'm wondering if I
couldn't just counter sink in the screw the entire width of the 2x4 upwards
and (if I'm careful) have it pierce the top by only ½"... But that seems
sketchy to me.

or

3. something else?

Thanks!

--
Forgetthesong,I'dratherhavethefrontallobotomy...



  #5   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default How to attach a table top without screws showing...

Can you glue the three pieces together to form the top, then glue that top
to the table underpinning? I've put together a 4' x 4' bookcase using just
glue, and it'll hold together quite well.
--
Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer

Thomas G. Marshall wrote:


I have a very short little planter table that I put together as a silly
father-son project with my 3 year old. The idea was to use up the left
over
lumber from my deck. I haven't finished the table because I am not sure
how to adhere the table top in such a way that there are no screws
showing.

Looking down, the table underpinning (no top) looks like this (go fixed
width font):

+----+ +----+
| +----------------------------+ |
| +-------------++-------------+ |
+-++-+ || +-++-+
|| || ||
|| || ||
|| || ||
+-++-+ || +-++-+
| +-------------++-------------+ |
| +----------------------------+ |
+----+ +----+

Legs are short cedar 4x4's, and the thinner bars are cedar 2x4's. Now I
have cedar boards (true ¾ x true 5½) to act as a table top. I'll draw
these with #'s OVER the prior diagram so you can get a sense as to what
overlaps what:

############################################
# +----+ +----+ #
# | +----------------------------+ | #
# | +-------------++-------------+ | #
############################################
# || || || #
# || || || #
# || || || #
############################################
# | +-------------++-------------+ | #
# | +----------------------------+ | #
# +----+ +----+ #
############################################

So the question is how do I best screw these boards to the top from
underneath? The entirety of the underpinning is pocket screws (...sort
of,
more like 30° angles), so no screws show. But I would like to keep the
no screws showing policy going here.

Do I.....

1. Use angle brackets connecting the 2x4's to the top boards from "inside"
and underneath? These would require very short screws predrilled into the
boards.

or

2. The 2x4's are a true 3¼" I have 3½" decking screws. I'm wondering
if I couldn't just counter sink in the screw the entire width of the 2x4
upwards
and (if I'm careful) have it pierce the top by only ½"... But that seems
sketchy to me.

or

3. something else?

Thanks!

--
Forgetthesong,I'dratherhavethefrontallobotomy...




  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 931
Default How to attach a table top without screws showing...

"Thomas G. Marshall"
. com wrote in
news:aKJxi.116$wr3.69@trndny04:

*snip: Hiding screws problem*


Do I.....

1. Use angle brackets connecting the 2x4's to the top boards from
"inside" and underneath? These would require very short screws
predrilled into the boards.


I did that with plywood tops once. One top started to warp and required
additional bracing.

or

2. The 2x4's are a true 3¼" I have 3½" decking screws. I'm wondering
if I couldn't just counter sink in the screw the entire width of the
2x4 upwards and (if I'm careful) have it pierce the top by only ½"...
But that seems sketchy to me.


If you can guarantee your screws would go in straight (predrill on a
drill press, for example), then this might work. You'll want 3 3/4"
decking screws, though. Your head should be flush and not counter sunk.
It takes a lot of the guess work out of putting screws in.

or

3. something else?

Thanks!



Personally, I think I'd attach 1x2s to the top and the top to the 1x2.
This way, you've only got 1 1/2" of material to screw through, and
support along the entire top. (Some glue, and a couple brads, and you've
got an obligatory Norm reference. :-)) The 1x2's broad side goes against
the frame, and the narrow side against the top.

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 138
Default How to attach a table top without screws showing...

Thomas G. Marshall said something like:
Thom said something like:

"Thomas G. Marshall"
. com wrote in
message news:aKJxi.116$wr3.69@trndny04...

I have a very short little planter table that I put together as a
silly father-son project with my 3 year old. The idea was to use up
the left over lumber from my deck. I haven't finished the table
because I am not sure how to adhere the table top in such a way that
there are no screws showing.


...[rip]...

maybe Z clips? [...]


But how would that work? Z-clips are usually hanging devices, no? How
would they work when oriented horizontally....wouldn't this just allow the
table top to be slid out?


Oh, I think I get what you mean. There would still be a screw or brad or
other such anchor, but the up/down adherence would be held by the Z. But
this might make the top look as if it were hoverring over the leg/apron
assembly, no?

--
If I can ever figure out how, I hope that someday I'll
succeed in my lifetime goal of creating a signature
that ends with the word "blarphoogy".


  #8   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 138
Default How to attach a table top without screws showing...

Michael White said something like:
Can you glue the three pieces together to form the top, then glue that top
to the table underpinning? I've put together a 4' x 4' bookcase using
just
glue, and it'll hold together quite well.


I could, but have dismissed the glues because this is something potentially
outdoors...perhaps that was premature?
--
If I can ever figure out how, I hope that someday I'll
succeed in my lifetime goal of creating a signature
that ends with the word "blarphoogy".


  #9   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 138
Default How to attach a table top without screws showing...

Puckdropper said something like:

....[rip]...

Personally, I think I'd attach 1x2s to the top and the top to the 1x2.
This way, you've only got 1 1/2" of material to screw through, and
support along the entire top. (Some glue, and a couple brads, and you've
got an obligatory Norm reference. :-)) The 1x2's broad side goes against
the frame, and the narrow side against the top.

Puckdropper


I'd still be stuck with a problem though.....Wouldn't the top still be
wobbly/rickety with the only anchors so far inward?



--
If I can ever figure out how, I hope that someday I'll
succeed in my lifetime goal of creating a signature
that ends with the word "blarphoogy".


  #11   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default How to attach a table top without screws showing...

Thomas G. Marshall wrote:

Michael White said something like:
Can you glue the three pieces together to form the top, then glue that
top
to the table underpinning? I've put together a 4' x 4' bookcase using
just
glue, and it'll hold together quite well.


I could, but have dismissed the glues because this is something
potentially outdoors...perhaps that was premature?


There are outdoor wood glues, and, if you want to pay a little more, you can
buy an epoxy (Gorilla Glue?). Either should be sufficient, especially
since the glue will not be exposed directly to the weather (sun or rain).

Besides, worst case you go with someone else's idea if it falls apart .
--
Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer
  #12   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 931
Default How to attach a table top without screws showing...

"Thomas G. Marshall"
. com wrote in
news:zFYxi.1877$dz3.1717@trndny01:

Puckdropper said something like:

...[rip]...

Personally, I think I'd attach 1x2s to the top and the top to the
1x2. This way, you've only got 1 1/2" of material to screw through,
and support along the entire top. (Some glue, and a couple brads,
and you've got an obligatory Norm reference. :-)) The 1x2's broad
side goes against the frame, and the narrow side against the top.

Puckdropper


I'd still be stuck with a problem though.....Wouldn't the top still be
wobbly/rickety with the only anchors so far inward?


Maybe, maybe not. The boards still sit on the frame, but they're
attached to the frame with the 1x2s.

Since you've got so much over hang from your boards, I'd consider running
a "trim" piece on the outside that's actually your anchors. If someone
sees it, it should still look nice. (Remember, though, it's your
project. I'm just making suggestions.)

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
  #13   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 138
Default How to attach a table top without screws showing...


"Puckdropper" wrote in message
reenews.net...
"Thomas G. Marshall"
. com wrote in
news:zFYxi.1877$dz3.1717@trndny01:

Puckdropper said something like:

...[rip]...

Personally, I think I'd attach 1x2s to the top and the top to the
1x2. This way, you've only got 1 1/2" of material to screw through,
and support along the entire top. (Some glue, and a couple brads,
and you've got an obligatory Norm reference. :-)) The 1x2's broad
side goes against the frame, and the narrow side against the top.

Puckdropper


I'd still be stuck with a problem though.....Wouldn't the top still be
wobbly/rickety with the only anchors so far inward?


Maybe, maybe not. The boards still sit on the frame, but they're
attached to the frame with the 1x2s.

Since you've got so much over hang from your boards, I'd consider running
a "trim" piece on the outside that's actually your anchors. If someone
sees it, it should still look nice. (Remember, though, it's your
project. I'm just making suggestions.)


And I welcome them. The wobbly worries come from the idea of folks trying
to lift the thing up from the lip and not the apron. Most folks don't know
how to treat a table. The leverage against any inside-only anchors would be
severe. I'm wondering if my only solution might be Z clips after all except
that the top wouldn't sit *visually* tightly on the assembly.

I'm loath to actually put outside trim pieces on the thing because of all
the effort I went through to hide each and every other screw in the thing.

Perhaps a combination of outdoor epoxy and inside screws. But I've seen
what happens when wood dries, and the cross-grain shrinkage would shatter
any epoxy, no?






  #14   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 568
Default How to attach a table top without screws showing...

On Aug 19, 9:36 pm, (J T) wrote:
Sat, Aug 18, 2007, 9:43pm (EDT+4)
om
(Thomas G. Marshall) doth claimeth:
snip I haven't finished the table because I am not sure how to adhere
the table top in such a way that there are no screws showing. snip

Brain dead, eh? If you don't want screws to show, then use nails..

Or, I "suppose" you "could" screw it on from below. Or glue it on.
Or use dowls. Or something.


I'd make the top and then set it aside and watch which way it tends to
cup. Then I'd attach it with a couple of dowels in the center,
concave side down to the skirt.
JP

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ceiling fixture attach plate screws Eigenvector Home Repair 4 May 9th 07 03:07 AM
Attach Rotary Table Vertically to Mini-Lathe? KN Metalworking 28 October 9th 05 02:41 AM
Attach new top to old table base Todd Fatheree Woodworking 8 August 18th 05 09:01 PM
Request for suggestions on how to squarly attach a table top - DSC01505.jpg (0/1) [email protected] Woodworking 5 March 3rd 05 02:39 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:26 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"